feisty

Hey all,

I used this forum quite extensively over the past few weeks, but just now joined as a member. There's a lot of press/articles/forum gabbing about the latest TL and I thought - now that I have mine - I'd throw my thoughts out there.

Been looking for a sport sedan for the past month or so. Wife said it must seat 5, but other than that I'm free to get whatever I want. On the long list of cars I've previously owned - a 2006 VW R32, 2002 BMW M3, and a 2000 TL.

(I've also had trucks & jeeps and stuff but won't comment on those here)

So I set out looking and short-listed the new TL, G37 Sedan (sport, 6-speed), Audi S4 and Mercedes C63 and a used M5.

But after all the research and driving each one, here is a summary of my thoughts:

BMW - hate the iDrive system. Harsh ride, seats are ridiculously firm & feel almost "plasticy".

C63 AMG - love the engine, seats, ride, etc... but the price is unrealisticly high for what it is.

Audi S4 - overpriced, didn't like the interior layout at all.

So that leaves the G37 and the Acura - which are priced about the same (G37 a bit less), and the reviews have compared them quite a bit... seemed like a pretty even match...

G37 - great engine noise, price was right... BUT... the car felt "twitchy" and the seats felt like I had 2 iron bars running parallel under my thighs.

I'm sort of a big guy (5'10", 210lbs), but those seats were narrow and the thigh bolsters didn't site wide enough. Call me a fat american or whatever you want...

So that left me with the Acura - it was the first car I researched but the last car I actually drove... I felt like the goldilocks when I got in it because it was "just right".

Sure the styling is "different", and the techie bits are confusing (at first)... but man, the ride, the comfort, the engine, the... everything... it's just right.

I'm very happy with the purchase.... and so is my wife (who stole it from me so she could drive it today)

anyway, that's my $0.02. flame away!

ATH GA 2010 TL SH-AWD

I also checked out quite a few other cars as well before I settled on the TL: BMW 3/500's, G37, Audi A4/5, ect. For the price, you can't beat the combination of Sport/Technology/Reliability all in a reasonable price range.

I think the 6 Speed was what helped me make my decision along with the AWD and Tech. package. The local dealer also had the Palladium/Ebony interior.

This car makes running a quick errand seem more like a chance to have some fun and actually enjoy the ride.

Congrats on the new purchase and hope you continue to enjoy the ride!

FAST4DR

Yeah, the TL is a nice size. I'm 6'6" tall and it fits me perfect. I actually put the seat up a good bit. I still don't really like how it looks, but it's growing on me and the color choices suck, unless you like greys. But, I love the interior, stereo and it's quick enough for a daily driver.

What about the CTS? I wish it were a little bigger.

YetiTL

Welcome to Azine and congrats on your choice!

kingofire

Did anyone test drive a Lexus GS350? I would have gotten the GS350 over the TL but I hear that its going to be completely redesigned for 2011 so I passed on it. The interior quality and materials on the GS350 were really really impressive

graphicguy

Well.....the GS is made by Toyota. And......they aren't doing real well here recently.

George Knighton

They haven't recalled units whose electronics were made entirely in Japan. Most of the Lexus line aren't under scrutiny.

I think there's more to the story than is being let out, and I believe they're going to flash some electronics while the cars are in to get the accelerator pedal bushings replaced.

Charles50

I test drove a GS350 nice car but felt like I was driving a boat plus if u are over 6ft there is no hear room . I am 6ft 3in. and my head hit the roof.

Litt

For me, FWD like the base TL, is a big advantage over a Base G37 or 328 which are RWD.

RWD in Canada sucks 6 months of the year. My father had a CTS in Canada, RWD, and it was a horror story in the snow. Now he drives a ES 350.

The TL's interior is way nicer the the ES350

cp3117

Congrats on your purchase of a SH, 6MT and nice color combo BTW.

I must say though that the vehicles you compared it too like the M5, C63 AMG and the S4 are very interesting choices. The TL must seem like an incredible value compared to them. You probably should have test drove the Aston martin Rapide and the Porsche Panamera 4S and compared them to the TL among others, as the TL would seem like an unbelievable value compared to them.

docboy

Not sure why you felt the OP's comparison vehicles are "interesting choices."

I too cross shopped the TL to the 3/5 series, S4, etc.

I did not feel the need (although I could have) to spend $50-60k for a vehicle with questionable reliability and/or subpar comfort, when the TL 6MT w/HPT at MSRP $44k has great overall reliability and comfort. To each their own, but I share the OP's sentiments.

OP, congratz on the purchase!

kingofire

George, you are on the right track. Since I owned a Lexus, I spent a good amount of my time on Clublexus and there was this one owner of a ES350 a couple of years back who started a thread about how his wife's ES, while waiting for her garage door to open it suddenly accelerated and crashed into the garage door. He also had pictures to prove it but everybody just chalked it up to his wifes inept ability to figure out which was the brake pedal and the accelerator pedal. I bet he is somewhere laughing right about now.

The GS to me has better interior materials, for example the TL's door handle to open the door is plastic and light but the GS's is a solid metal feel to it and may be metal but am not sure. You also would need to fork over an extra $8K and still end up with an inferior sound system unless you opt to pay an extra $2K on top of the $8K to get the ML system. I still believe the ML system is inferior to the TL's ELS.

TechnoCat

Yeah. I'm probably viewed as an Audi-fan/Acura-basher here, but I can't justify the S4 either. It is way overpriced. And I agree that the BMW is very firm too! Just as the Acura is no Audi, the Audi is no Acura.

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

Congrats!

docboy

Succinctly well stated

jasonwdp10

The C63, S4, and the M5 are definitely "interesting choices" They're in a significantly different price range and performance level (S4 being closer in performance). I think what cp3117 was trying to say was that the price level of the european makes op was looking were obviously higher.. why would you purposely still look at the car if you knew the prices were so high.. then complain about it? Just because they're all sports sedans?

Acura, regardless of their lack of (and constantly changing) direction, has always made sensible, reasonably priced premium vehicles that are nice alternatives to the european makes.

You shouldn't be looking into the european makes unless you're willing to pay a premium for the prestige/brand name (and spotty reliability). Not sure why you (and op) even looked at european cars if price/value factor and reliability were high up on your list.

I bought my TL because $ for $, you can't find a better deal, especially in the long run. The europeans aren't even on my list due to potential reliability issues (although i've had good experiences with MB).

And as far as lexus/toyota, there is definitely a problem with their vehicles, but it's not nearly as bad as the news is making it sound. Otherwise there would be toyota's crashing and burning everywhere all the time. People are blowing it WAY out of proportion.

graphicguy

According to CTS, who is one of the accelerator suppliers, they're one of two sources. The other is Denso. Both CTS (U.S.) and Denso (Japan) made the accelerator assemblies for the vehicles in question. So, there are cars being recalled with both the Denso parts and the CTS parts, except in Japan. Toyota is recalling cars with both companies' parts.

Here's where it gets interesting......everything delivered to North America, China, and Europe is being recalled, regardless of where they were built. Only in Japan is there no recall. Some of the same parts made for the Corolla, Camry, Avalon, etc are shared with Lexus and Scion. Is the accelerator assemblies shared across all brands? Common sense would seem to say "yes" since the accelerator assembly would seem to be a part that's likely to be shared (just like window switches, for example).

Perhaps just me, but I'm thinking there's some jockeying going on with Toyota, being Japan based, regarding this issue. Home country cars are all "OK". Yet, the same assembly, used in the rest of the world, are not, even though the design is Toyota's, regardless of who manufactured it.

CTS says the design that Toyota gave to them is to "spec" as to what they delivered.

Not sure of this, but the accelerators in these cars aren't merely a mechanical device, but an electrical-mechanical device. So, there's not only the mechanical piece they must look at, but firmware also.....again, all Toyota spec'd.

Thinking Toyota is trying to make CTS the "fall guy" here because they're U.S based. But, what about Denso? They made the parts, too.

And, is it just a matter of time before Lexus has a law suit in their hands because of these same assemblies?

I think Toyota is playing with fire in trying to keep at least part of their brands out of this whole fiasco.....particularly Lexus since that's their premium brand.

Reading the trade rags and industry reviewers, Toyota quality has been slipping over the last few years.

I'm in the market for a car right now. The TL is on my short list based on my great experiences with the previous gen TL. The IS and GS was, too. Not any more.

Toyota's best bet would be to come totally clean on this issue. Take their lumps. Admit their errors instead of trying to point fingers elsewhere. Committing to a total rededication to the quality standards they used to be known for, and then implement them. It would be costly. And, it would take some time to recoup that reputation.

Until they do, there are plenty of us in the market that will avoid their brands.

George Knighton

I'm not sure they've come clean even with the NHTSA behind closed doors.

At another site where I am an administrator (much bigger than this site) a Toyota corporate employee has pretty much let slip that there is a dealer procedure involving flashing the ECU when the cars come in to get the pedal assembly.

He is not sure, but it sounds like he honestly believes that the ECU flash will cause the car to shut off fuel in a situation where it detects brakes and throttle are being applied at the same time, in certain quantities and forces.

SebringSilver

That's a pretty funny post.

It's amusing how you rationalize your purchase decision, but seriously, C63s and S4s aren't cross-shopped against the Acura TL. I'm glad you like your new car, but please don't expect us to believe the "test drives" that you had in the C63 and S4 were anything more than a joy ride in cars that you never seriously considered buying (for whatever reason).

JD23

I don't think the OP is arguing that the TL is better on an absolute scale than the S4 and C63, only that he considers it to be a better choice for himself when price is also factored into the decision. A reasonably equipped S4 is only around $10k more than the TL, so it isn't like the two cars are in different stratospheres and the OP was merely "joyriding". There is no need to deride people who cannot afford three expensive cars like you can - it only makes you seem pompous.

George Knighton

LOL....

Only about $10K more....

:-)

SebringSilver

I'm not sure how my post was any more derisory than the OP's post in which he manufactures a series of reasons for not selecting other cars when clearly the sole consideration for not selecting the more expensive cars was price alone, and not an objective comparison of each car's qualities.

I would have thought it was the collective intelligence of the Acurazine community that was being insulted by the OP's assertions, rather than the OP by way of my response.

VTEC Racer

Ughhh.... Sorry about this one, feisty. Every forum has at least one.

Congratulations on your purchase and thank you for the comparison!

feisty

LOLZ... went away for the weekend and just came back to see some really interesting replies. I honestly didn't intend to start any controversy - but I tend to have a way of doing that anyway!

As for the AMG - it honestly WAS a contender and my reason for not purchasing it had more to it than just price. (guess I should have written more in my "why I didn't" bullets??) I had worked with the dealer on an amazing price for the vehicle - just a little under $50K for a 2009.

We recently turned in my wife's R500 from lease... It had to be taken to the dealership via flatbed 4 different times in the 39 months we had it. One time it nearly shut itself down on the freeway - going down to 2 cylinders and crawling to stop on the side of the road due to an electrical issue. We also had problems with trim pieces falling off, and an annoying rattle in the right rear that was never able to be diagnosed despite 3 repair attempts.

I'm not bashing it - the R500 was a NICE car. And the C63 - although in a different class/segment altogether than the R class - is also... f*%king SWEET.

But in the back of my mind, while taking my "joyride" as stated above - I couldn't get past the issues we had with the R class... Oh, and I also don't really like the MB-Tex "pleather" seats.

Besides that, when I looked at other cars in the "sport sedan" category there are so many others that are so much less expensive (and arguably better equipped) than the C63... sure, they don't have RWD and 450+hp but in that case my choice of the TL is even more justified - my tires are gonna last longer.

One final note... I totally agree with TechnoCat - an "Acura ain't no Audi" and vice versa. Not good or bad... just different.

JAB00

I don't think it's unreasonable to cross shop those cars and test drive them for serious consideration. The calculous of buying a car is not black and white. There's a lot of emotions underlying buying a car. It's like buying a Blueray vs conventional DVD. No one argues that a regular DVD is a good as or better than a Blureray. However, to most, a conventional DVD is good enough and that extra couple of $100 is just not worth the price.

The TL 6MT SH-AWD system is not as good as the above mention cars. However, to many buyers, a $10-15K+ premium is just not worth it, given the fact that the 6MT TL is a more than competent handler.

Sometimes though, someone just has to have that S4, M5, or AMG because they feel it's gorgeous inside/out not to mention class leading handling/performance. These people are willing to spend that extra $15-20K.

Just a thought and not a sermon.

cp3117

LOL.....Ahhh, look who's back.

I saw you where taking heat over at "temple of Vtec" a while ago for the same thing as your doing here (trolling, etc). I guess they finally chased you out of there for awhile. Hopefully we are also honored by your presence for only a brief time.

cp3117

I hear what your saying but i dont think most people buying a M5, AMG, etc are walking through an Acura dealer looking at TL's. It would be like someone cross-shopping a Chevy Malibu/Impalla or a Ford Taurus etc and comparing it to a SH-AWD 6MT...... Sure it can be done but just not realistic/comparable to the average consumer.

winstrolvtec

If one wants to do a paper comparison, perhaps how the rags would do it, then the TL wouldn't exactly be cross shopped to some of those cars but in reality if they come fairly close in dollar amounts people will consider all their options and that does not disqualify the TL.

The S4 or C63 is not far from the TL SH tech or 6MT in price especially if you are willing to go stock, then it's right there. They are a different size of luxury sedan but with similar price points and likewise, I believe a comparison can also be done if it's the same type and size of vehicle even if at different price points.

Many don't think the TL competes with the mid level luxury sedans but I don't see why one wouldn't consider or cross shop a TL SH up agianst a 528 or A6 3.2 in addition to the 335 and S4 when you are talking about the same price points. I also don't see why a consumer wouldn't consider the TL SH even compared to the 535, A6 or the like, it has the same size and performance capabilities, although more basic in terms of luxury, it does cost tens of thousands less when equally equipped.

Now, I don't expect a so called professional paper comparison of this but to the average consumer it does exist and I agree with CP that no one shopping an M5 or E AMG is walking into an Acura dealer to compare a TL, unless they were older and used and available in the same price range, then it's actually a fairly common practice.

VTEC Racer

Please take the personal comments to PM's. You've done enough in this thread already.

LCDRChemEng

Thanks for sharing. I did a fair amount of cross-shopping too. Some cars you metioned were simply not even considered, like the Audi. I used to own an Audi 5000 turbo. Nuff said. I also flatly refused to consider GM. Grew up with their garbage and swore I would never ever buy one.

I did consider infinitiy, bmw, and lexus, plus other used cars within the price range. Although I finally settled on a new TL Tech, one other was a real sleeper and came really really close to being my new ride. Ready? The 2010 Taurus limited with Navi.

Ultimately we decided on Acura because of the perceived increase in reliability and superior service. Had the Ford dealer gone after the sale like the Acura people and knocked off a grand from their selling price, I would not be posting here.