docboy

As some of you may have known my TL has been consuming oil for a while. Took it to the dealership 4 times and each time it was unresolved. Last time I left angry and heated...

A few weeks ago I then started to notice a rapid tapping/clicking noise when the car is accelerating. Car is a 2010 TL 6MT with 57k miles. The TL for the past few years had always made a "diesel" sounding rumble after warmup in lower rpms when accelerating from 1-2-3, but the dealership never addressed this issue and I wasn't sure of the severity of this "diesel" rumble.

But this noise was new, and the engine just didn't sound right. I took it to the dealership yesterday, figured I would try to get noise issue resolved, and also decided to push the oil consumption issue one more time, since the low oil indicator flashed a few days ago. I did not add oil to prove a point.

This time I tried to be extra nice. Service advisor remembered me from last prior angry visit. Advisor wanted me to authorize $144 diagnostic fee just in case it wasn't power train warranty related, which I okayed.

The tech who went on a ride with me was less than helpful and rude, and claims he couldn't hear the noise, and even said something about them not having records of transmission fluid change. Nonetheless the tech wanted to drive it himself, thinks noise may be louder in the driver's seat. I left the dealership in a RDX loaner, thinking this would be a waste of time.

15 min later service advisor called. Said he was going to do everything he can to address the noise. He also asked about the oil consumption issue. I told him very nicely yet firmly I would appreciate if he can have the oil issue addressed under warranty without me having to authorize additional costs. Last visit dealership wanted me to authorize $800 fee in case it wasn't engine related, which I declined and left angry. Advisor initially wanted me to do a 1000 mile consumption test, which I declined b/c I already did one before. I politely told him my time constraints due to work, and asked if there's anything he could do. Miraculously advisor says there is someone from Acura Corp in a meeting with the manager today, and he's going to see what he can do.

4 5 hours later advisor calls me with good news. Says technician heard the noise and examined the engine and found all the valves to be shot. (I suspect this new engine noise and low rpm "diesel" rumble may be related). Solution is a complete new engine replacement, which will be covered under power train warranty. Lucky thing is I had only 3 days left before the warranty expired!

So we'll see how this ends up. Car is expected to be ready with new engine by late next week. Meanwhile I'm enjoying driving the new RDX. It's not sporty or fun to drive, but it's very spacious and comfy, and has a smooth feeling engine.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

i'm interested in the valves.
I wouldnt mind seeing pics, at your convenience of course.

glad Acura is taking care of you

JM2010 SH-AWD

Glad they are taking care of you. But if the valves are shot, that would call for new heads, but probably not a whole new block. Sounds like they are using that as an excuse to give you the new block, without conceding it's because of your oil use issue. Hope this resolves (all) your issues.

JT4

Yeah, I remember reading your other threads in the past regarding the consumption problems you were having.. Glad the dealer finally stepped up, hope all goes well..

ABDomega

Congrats! Curious that in your case it's the valves. Wasn't there some dialogue on here about how engine braking (whether intentionally or unintentionally) could be the reason why so many 6MTs have oil burning issues. This is to say that oil is being sucked into the cylinders by vacuum pressure while engine braking.

Anyway, did the tech comment on the extent of the damage to valves?

docboy

I haven't heard any thing about engine braking causing oil burning issues. Do you have a link to this thread?

I did ask the service advisor to take pics of damaged valves or anything else that may be damaged. Nothing was stated on the extent of valve damage, but I'll ask next time. Advisor mentioned since a whole new engine was going in, he doesn't know if the tech was planning on taking the old engine apart. But he'll see what he can do.

I wonder if it's because of legal reasons the dealership may not want to release photos, not sure.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

i'm just interested in the damage. it's always cool to see engines torn down to see point of failure.


if techs dont want to tear down engine to inspect, or if legal issue, i totally understand.

ABDomega

Really only in passing but this may have been before the survey came out that showed as many (if not more) 5AT owners have consumption issues relative to 6MT.

https://acurazine.com/forums/problem.../#post15436811

See also this thread.

engine braking leading to oil consumption? | Passenger Car Motor Oil (PCMO) - Gasoline Cars/Pickups/Vans/SUVs | Bob Is The Oil Guy

The general idea is that vacuum pressure is created while engine braking and if the valve seals/guides are bad when the engine is braking it causes the oil to be sucked past the valves into the combustion chamber. It's really only a thought at this point.

JM2010 SH-AWD

The poll probably doesn't really tell us much. Many more ATs were sold than MTs, so if there is some issue common to the motor, we'd expect to see more AT owners reporting it. But maybe these are AT owners who use the paddles to downshift the car?


The interesting thing some have reported about oil consumption is that it starts out neglible for the first few thousand miles after a change. Then it upticks dramatically after about 4 thousand miles. That should offer a clue to an expert as to what the cause may be, but I don't know enough to suggest what it might be.

ABDomega

That's what made me think shearing but every time I suggest it I get shot down. My Oil analyses don't show any shearing, however the one caveat is that I added between 1.5-2 quarts during the OCI. See here: https://acurazine.com/forums/fourth-.../#post15382602

It could be that the first 1-2,000 miles the oil hasn't broken in so it isn't being burned until it does.

Booya4139

Funny my transmission on my 09 FWD started making bad sounds, I bought it CPO so drivetrain warranty was extended to 100,000 miles... car has 99,000 miles on it. On the test drive the tech was babying it so softly that it barely exhibited anything, had one kind of clunk downshift but i was expecting the 'cant replicated' nonsense. Thankfully it had thrown a code for internal failure. So when they plugged it into the OBDII there was no argument. So they started digging into service records which i had and questioned a 3rd party mechanic trans fluid change. Thankfully in the end it was covered for replacement and they have me in a 4 cyl TLX... nice smooth car, but makes me appreciate the TL even more.

I just did the timing belt/plugs/pump/tensioner service, so now with a new trans i'll be good to go for a long time.. very happy how it worked out.

Those guys don't have an easy job, it would irk me to no end having a job trying to find angles to screw people out of warranty work. Its good when it works out.

Hopefully they figure out that oil issue. I had thought about upgrading at one point to a '14 TL 6MT, but the engine issues so commonly reported makes me pause

docboy

Just picked up the car. New engine, new gaskets, new valves, new timing belt, etc... along with a new catalytic converter. Apparently during engine removal the techs found an old cold the computer had thrown regarding a failed catalytic converter, so this item was replaced under a 8yr, 80k mile warranty.

I wonder where the dealership got the new engine since the new Acuras do not utilize the 3.7 V6. I guess Acura is still manufacturing the 3.7L V6 but I also wonder if any improvements have been made since it is new and if the oil consumption issue will continue with this new engine.

Car is very smooth now, even the clutch and shifts are smoother. Probably my imagination.

At this point, the car is essentially new. Glad to hear Acura finally stepped up and took care of me. Now the question would be do I continue to keep the car now that it's just out of powertrain warranty and wait for something to happen, or look for something else...

JT4

This was a long battle for you, glad that it has seemed to work in your favor in the end.

As far as keeping it, I wish I could give you a suggestion, but as I was just thinking it over I really don't know what I would do if I was in your shoes.. Tough call for sure..

As far as the warranty goes, didn't Acura give you a 3/36 on the new engine??

docboy

Good question, so I asked the service advisor.

He's response to me was that since work was done at no charge to the customer, no additional warranty is given.

For those interested, invoice stated suspected valvetrain damage and found block and both heads faulty. Estimated costs out of pocket would have around $13k for the engine and $420 for the catalytic converter.

So as today car is completely out of warranty. Going to have to give this some thought on what to do.

With the new engine do you guys think this will hurt or help the car's resale value?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

if cat really did fail, it could have def. sent some debris into the engine causing engine failure..

I wish they would tear down the engine. would show you what really happened.

JM2010 SH-AWD

I'd keep it. You have essentially a brand new car. Tough question on whether the fact of the new engine raises or lowers resale. For me, given that it was done by an Acura dealer with all OEM parts, I'd view it as a plus. But for the average joe looking to buy a used car, who knows?

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

Glad it was all taken care of. Best of luck in whatever decision you decide to make.

Jakes_tl

You have all of the paperwork from Acura for a new engine - to me that would be a huge benefit (who wouldn't like a new engine)

echodigital

New engine...that is so cool!

ABDomega

You are the second member to comment on the transmssion feeling better after receiving a new motor: https://acurazine.com/forums/fourth-.../#post15474937.

Did they replace the engine mounts and/or motor mounts?

Booya4139

Funny my 'new' transmission has a 1 year warranty/12,000 miles. They said it is either warrantied for the remained of your original (which in my case was 1000 miles) or 12,000 miles whichever is longer. I didn't see it anywhere in writing though.

docboy

Thanks for the link. I believe that member had his short block replaced, not the entire engine.

I checked my invoice. No mention anywhere on if new motor or engine mounts were replaced.

I did notice on the invoice, among other parts, new "synblend" 5W/20 oil, and "fluid, MT" which I suspect is new manual transmission fluid?

Invoice stated repairs are warranted for *labor* for 12months or 12,000 miles, whichever occurs first.

Has any other member had their entire engine replaced with a new engine?

Willie3.5

Glad to hear the issue was fixed. I'd say keep it.

JT4

It kind of surprises me that the warranty on the new motor is only for labor.

Maybe it's me, but I would have thought they would have given you 12/12 on both parts and labor since its an new Acura motor installed by an Acura dealer..I guess I really need to read the warranty booklets more closely from now on.

Regardless, enjoy the new motor