Olu

I've been training a lot more and find the TL to be a pain carting my bike around. I can maneuver the bike into the back if I take the wheel off, but this isn't good for the bike nor the upholstery. I have a removable bike rack, but if I need to run after biking (which I do often) I need the bike IN the car. If the TL had fold down seats this wouldn't be an issue.

So I've been thinking of purchasing an inexpensive hatch back or wagon. My only "must haves" are AWD, Bluetooth Phone, and iPod integration. I've had my eye on the new Golf R which was to be released this spring, but it's not coming out until early next year AND it's supposed to go for about $34,000. This is NOT cheap in my book.

A few days ago my son (who's a Gran Turismo addict) suggested a Subaru, so yesterday (for his birthday) I went to look at the Imprezza. Of course he convinced me to drive the WRX. All I have to say is....Wow!!
PROS:
1) I didn't realize how much I missed manual. This alone made the WRX a blast to drive
2) It's rated at 256hp. I call bullshit. This car is blazingly fast. C&D clocked 0-60 in 4.7. It felt significantly faster then the TL
3) The sedan with the huge wing is too 'boy racer' for me but the new 5 door hatch looks great. Very aggressive rally look.
4) Surprisingly the WRX rides smoother then my TL. It is also quieter. I took it over some pot hole ridden roads and it absorbed them with aplomb.
5) I'd read so many bad things about the interior. Granted it's spartan but it gets the job done. Coming from the TL and a Lexus GS300 before that, I could live in this cabin happily.
6) 25K base price! I'd get the Limited which adds sun/moonroof, leather, HID, Fog lights, 6 speaker stereo with iPod and bluetooth, and all weather package (heated wipers, heated seats) 28K MRSP.
Cons:
1) More body roll then TL, no SH-AWD
2) Black leather interior only (I'll miss the umber)
3) Reliability compared to Acura?



At this point I'm going to take a couple of weeks to think it over, check out some other cars, do more research and then do schedule a longer test drive.

potmilkz

the imprezza is a fantastic car.. i had it for a short time to drive around.. makes me want to get one..

if your a biker, this is the car for you, has lots of room and easy to access the roof rack.

its made to go off road.. so yea.. you get the idea

jasonwdp10

Yup. NVH (Noise, Vibrations, Harshness) is still a huge problem for honda and acura, they are too stubborn to fix it completely so we get just a little more sound deadening with each fmc/mmc.

People here always say stuff like "the ride is fine" "i don't hear road noise" or stuff like that.. they really don't seem to be driving any other vehicles. Though I will say that, over perfectly paved flat roads, the TL is serene.

Acuras/hondas are made so that we CAN FEEL all the bumps on the road, it's impossible to ignore and even worse to try to deny. I was shocked when I realized how much better riding sporty coupes like the A5 and G37 were vs my TL. Those cars may be jarring over large bumps, but all other small/midsize bumps were softened much better than the TL.

It (poor nvh) may eventually be the sole reason I exit this brand and may finally buy a car that isn't an acura/honda for my next vehicle.

btw I was also looking at a wrx (or impreza hatch) before buying my TL. I don't want stick, so that pretty much took it off my list. If subaru could finally develop or outsource a decent automatic transmission, it would find tons of new buyers.

TechnoCat

I've purchased three Subarus over the years for my significant others. They are much more practical cars (and we have some haters here who can't imagine you not having put "fold down seats" onto a mandatory checklist before buying a car), and extremely reliable.

But... they develop squeaks and rattles so badly it's almost comical.

(My 4G TL SH-AWD rattled heavily until I put felt in all the unpadded cubbies, but with the Subarus it's usually the interior pieces together.)

Olu

When I purchased the TL, I hadn't even finished a triathlon. I certainly didn't anticipate training for an Ironman. So no, hatchback and fold down seats weren't must haves.

Rattles...we'll see. I haven't driven in an older hatchback or wagon (in this price range) that didn't have squeaks. I can't imagine I'll own the car long enough for it to really annoy me.

draph

I test drove a Legacy 2.5GT in 2010 before settling on the TL SHAWD 6MT. The Subaru is just as fast, but didn't seem as refined to me - especially in the area of the MT shift linkage; and the seat bottoms seemed too short and lacked thigh support.

Where turbos really shine is in the low-end torque dept. I have no doubt the WRX feels faster than the TL just because you need to rev the Honda engine before you get into the power.

ll_22

A culprit for road noise is the OEM tires. Subaru's traditionally have not been quiet cars although new ones might be different. Our 2005 is noisier than the TL even with new tires. They are less refined and interior rattle/squeaks do happen. They are fairly reliable.

saturno_v

In my family I drive a TL SH-AWD and my wife a WRX STI....frankly I find very hard to believe that someone can find the Impreza quieter or smoother...

The STI is my wife's fourth Subaru...and in her family there are avid Subaru drivers...our Subies never developed any bad rattle or squeaks.....Technocat you must have hit several lemons
Actually is the new arrived (the STI) that tend to be significantly more "rattlish" than the previous Subarus (Legacy, Forester and Tribeca)

Olu

This is not the STI. The 2011 WRX has the wide body kit of the 2010 STI. So softer suspension, milder exhaust, and different turbo.

Edward'TLS

The Impreza is a sub-compact car, while the TL is a mid-size car.

So it is very obviously that the two cannot be compared equally.

Olu

This really isn't a comparison since I stated earlier this is a change that I'm choosing to make. I'm merely seeking input about the car. I didn't plan on changing cars for another year or so, but with my lifestyle changes and amazing residual value of the TL, I figured it might be a good time to switch.

saturno_v

My wife car is the 2011 WRX STI, (we got it in December of last year). I test drove the regular WRX more than once....while it has slightly softer suspension the ride is still stiff and the tire noise is the same. Both are miles apart from the TL ride and quietness in my book as they should....totally different cars.

Olu

My initial impression was definitely colored by my expectations. I expected the WRX to be harsh and loud based on past reviews. I was pleasantly surprised and that's why I posted here to see if I was imagining things.

I'll give myself a couple of weeks to avoid an impulse purchase and then take it out again, to see what it's really like.

BTW, I wouldn't call my SH-AWD TL ride smooth nor quiet. It's the 2nd harshest riding car I've owned including an E36 M3 and Golf 20th Anniversary GTi. The harshest ride I ever had was a Jetta III GLX with the VR6 and aftermarket adjustable spax suspension. Now that was teeth chattering.

saturno_v

Do you have the 18" or the 19" rims?? Right there could be some noticeable difference...my TL SH-AWD has the regular 18".....is not a Buick, a Lexus GS or ES or a Toyota Avalon but I was not expecting that anyway from a sport sedan....a little bit stiffer than a 5 Series but with better road manners...a price you have to pay

saturno_v

The sound level recorded on the SH-AWD match perfectly the new 535 and the A6 3.0T

winstrolvtec

I think it's worth mentioning that the WRX rides on a smaller overall diamater and has a better quality tire from the factory. In any of these types of comparisons you also kind of need to align the handling capabilities and character first otherwise it's not really apples to apples.

The TL advance and HPT versions would be in line with the STI and I think it would be safe to say (and mostly based on the ownership comments here) the TL would have a slight edge in this area of NVH and ride. The 18 in SH model is in line with the WRX (non STI) models and being that the SH is an all season while the WRX is on summers, the TL likely has a bit of a firmer ride in order to acheive the same type of skidpad results on a far less grippy tire.

I suspect that the FWD TL has very similar ride quailty and NVH levels as the regular WRX models. Of course these things are always hard to tell for sure as it can be very subjective and then there are other variances in tread life, air pressure, road surfaces, etc, that should be accounted for.

For some, the degree of agressive handling engineering in most Honda's and Acura's is something many people don't need or use so they often get unfairly critisized when it comes to ride quality and NVH. Let's not forget Honda is the company who has been engineering FWD cars that have consistently been able to rival and out handle several RWD competitors. They simply build and have been building the best handling FWD's (as a whole) for years. That's a huge part of their reputation that too often gets overlooked and unfortunately it has to come at the expense of ride and road noise.

Remember what the 3G TL-S is capable of, there are links below for those who might not know or forgot, and let's try to keep in mind that it is likely the basis for the 4G's handling and engineering which while growing and adding weight but also SH still seems to be the best handling car in segment range (with comparably equipped tires) and that is mostly against smaller, more powerful, better balanced compacts while being a mid size.

Unfortunately, people generally are not aware that there is much more to handling then just how the steering feels or how the car behaves driving a test drive or around the block. Granted, most people will never use the car in that manner or degree (and most cars handle very similarly for everday driving purposes so most prefer the softer, quieter ride type) but it's not the point, as we also don't need 12 and 13 second cars but the whole point of sport is having the capabilities whether you use it or not.

Considering the TL's platform or platform basis and what is is able to do and then how it rides and the road noise level, it all seems like quite an accomplishment and is very acceptable to me but that is knowing that you usually can't have everything or have it both ways.

http://www.fastestlaps.com/laptimes/4895c7345a094.html

http://www.acura-tsx.com/forums/showthread.php?t=633610

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

get a roof rack. disrespecting your bike and your car...

you spent the money on a nice car, treat it nice. you spent the money on your tri bike, treat it nice. just my

if you're really hating the idea of going roof rack and getting the best of both worlds with your car and tri's, then get the subie. no doubt the subie will haul ass since the TL is a bigger car.

Pseudomaniac

iTrader: (1)

The WRX platform is outstanding in every mechanical context; drop the coin on the STI for ultimate hardcore.

That said:

1. The radio: SUCKS.
2. The interior: SUCKS.
3. The noise: SUCKS.
4. The paint: SUCKS.
5. Ride quality: SUCKS.


You're paying for the drivetrain, and that boxer motor is a time proven champ in durability, but you're spending used-luxury dollars on a sub-Corolla quality interior.

Score a used Element for about $15k in good shape, and then you've got a tackle box for your weekend playtime that can also be used as a truck.

Mr Marco

This \/ is what my doctor (and lawyer) recommended for my mid-life crisis.



But unfortunately I still have a wife who said we needed a car with more room, you know for other people to ride with us and stuff.

"But, but we have the RDX, it has plenty of room for you to drive OTHER people around in, and besides we were going to buy a car for me this time remember?" I said.

"Oh, honey you'll like that new TL, it has lots of power and that will be your new car." she said.

Fast forward to today and I could probably count the number of times that I have driven the TL on two hands. I have been relegated to the RDX as a daily driver and really wish I had stood my ground and gotten the S-2000.
So the moral of the story is BUY IT! If you don't you'll become a sad man like me, driving a small SUV and masturbating in the shower.

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

It's very unfortunate that you've missing the boat. Honda had discontinued the S2000 back in 2009.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I just can't think of a better AWD hatch than the WRX. It's affordable, it's fast, and it got that AWD system from Subaru. And Subaru is pretty reliable too.

Pseudomaniac

iTrader: (1)

Ahhh Sweet S2000...

Sold mine last year to make room for the carseat mobile. It's rained so much this year, I haven't really missed it. Fantastic automobile, and I got $11,500 out of a returned to all original; 2000 S2000 with 48k on it. Honda quality.

Once my little guy is big enough to turn a wrench; there's a rebuildable J32A2 from my CL in the garage itching for a civic to crawl into.

Mr Marco

^Oh I know all about my little baby. I can even quote you what interior you could get with which exterior color. I still have my 2008 sales brochure tucked away in my drawer right next to issue #146 of Hustler Mag.

saturno_v

I would not go that far saying the the WRX STI interiors are sub-Corolla in quality...actually the assembly is pretty good and even the hard plastic has a nice touch to it...but definitely is not luxury car level.....for 40K you can get much better cabin refinement....however the Alcantara seat option helps quite a bit in rising the level...I love these seats in my wife's ride.

I totally agree on the stereo...nothing special even with the additional subwoofer package (we got it in my wife car)...you gotta crank it up quite a bit to avoid being drowned by the engine noise...

I find the lack of electric seat adjustment even as an optional package a serious drawback....pretty much equivalent to the TL lack of rear folding seats...

Handling is pure orgasm though...well worth the price of admission....it shred any Bimmer to pieces...I justify the harsh ride with the level of performance offered....and even the engine noise at least plays the right notes....the lousy stereo instead is simply bad.

The level of performance is amazing considering the versatility....last week I loaded up the STI (read seat folded) with stuff we donated to the Goodwill, I thought I did need two trips, instead I fitted everything just fine.....months ago during a loop of the Columbia river I went over 130 just like that (and the car still wanted to accelerate like it was from a standstill) on a deserted stretch of road.....me, my wife, the luggage and the dog at the back

The TL ride is an another planet in terms of refinement and "plushness" even if stiff and firm enugh to still qualify as a sport sedan.

With my wife we use the expression "two very different interpretation of a 305 HP 4 door car"

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

my two friends with an 09 wrx and 2010 wrx, both give compliments about my tl. they think its quieter and has a much better interior. one thing they noted what that my tl trunk has the soft cloth whereas the walls of their trunks feels hard and cheap. also, tl drives way smoother compared to their cars, even though their cars are much faster.

Olu

Sorry, on a cruise and have sloooow and expensive Internet access. No way I'm leaving an almost 9k tri bike on the roof when I go for a run. The bike has got to be in the car. I've started lurking on the Subie forums and it seems I will definitely need to upgrade the stereo. At 28k I'm nit expecting most of the luxury features (that I won't miss) on the TL I'm looking forward to a second drive next week to see how I really feel about.

Mr Marco

Just buy an RDX.

Quote from the Cadillac owners forum:


"Dude. I don't think my rear seat folds down."

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

are you riding around on your race wheels? it sounds like you need an SUV if you really want to stash your bike away in your car. if they really want your bike they'll take it. they make locks for the rack which locks to the roof of your car, and then the bike locks to the mount. if you're really anal, then stick a U-lock through the wheel and frame while its on the roof. there is no way to get that bike off your roof without damaging the bike and/or wheels first. its a total theft deterrent. how long are your bricks? if you're running any more than 30-45 min after your long ride...you're probably overdoing it. worse thing that happens in either case...they take your car AND your bike. happy training! i've never had any problems with locking my bike to my roof rack through the mount and the U-lock if i'm away from the car for a while. most thieves, i imagine have no idea how the bike mounts work anyway (if you get the upright mounts at least). fork mount...they can take it a lot easier.

gibjer

I've had 2 WRXs, and one of the newer 5 Door STI's.

The car is definitely a function over form car, and damn near bulletproof in stock form.

My biggest issue with them is the culture, I can grow up, but the the ever growing list of F&F boy racers who associate themselves with the culture just ruined it for me.

From my STI I got a Murano, but then back into a Subaru with my Outback.

Doesn't handle corners for crap, however, comfortable, quiet, and the Harmon Kardon system in the new legacies and outbacks is pretty decent, maybe not DVD 11 speaker TL decent, but certainly good enough for all but the pickiest of audiophiles.

Olu

Thanks for the advice. I do think I was a bit over trained for my last race. I was supposed to do an olympic 2 weeks before my A race a Half-Ironman. The Olympic was cancelled and I didn't rest and taper the way I would have if I raced. I ended getting some GI upset before the race, but still went 8 minutes faster then last year. I wanted to go 12 minutes faster (4:49) so it was a PR, but not what I was hoping for.

Anywho I ended up with this:


My impressions: https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-2009-2014-123/farewell-its-been-fun-833147/

I'm going to get a hidden trailer hitch and go with the flat-bed bike rack. Seems like the best of both worlds to me. I'm just freaked out by the roof racks.


FYI: My tri-bike is a Felt B-10 with Shimano Di2 electronic shifters, upgraded saddle and brakes. I also have a Quarq wireless power meter in the crank.

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

I'll just take your component group...thanks. Lol. Soon your bike will be worth more than your car. Happy training

Olu

Nice. But the bike does fit in the back with both seats down (don't even need to take the wheel off). I'll only use the bike rack for longer trips.

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

Not my preference to transport my bike, but if it works for you, that's all that matters.

billyt1963

My bike is only $3K, but I leave it locked on a hitch bike rack all day long. I have a lock on the hitch receiver and also a cable lock that goes through the wheels and frame. Why can't you do something like that?

Billy

Olu

I may end up doing that. It really depends on how easy it is to put the hitch bike rack on. I have a feeling that I'll only store the bike in the car during foul weather traveling.

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

it takes maybe 5 min to put a hitch rack on (its the lugging of the thing that becomes a pain, i now understnad why people leave them on their cars). i too have a lock on the receiver and a wimpy built in cable lock feature on my hitch rack (this is for the MDX). if you use the strap to the wheels and frame to cinch everything down then add the use of a cable lock when you're parked, then nobody is willing to go through the effort of stealing your bike with all that on there. you said you were going with a platform rack, i'd go with a u-lock through the rear wheel and frame, and a cable lock if you really want to go nuts and secure it even further.

honestly, most bike thieves won't know if its a really pricey bike or a really el cheapo bike. only ones that will know...are actual cyclists in the know.