Impact of 2010 TSX V6 on the TL
06-10-2009, 06:43 PM
#81
06-10-2009, 07:14 PM
#82
Why You need more hard data?
MotorTrend has already declared TSX V6 faster than 4G TL-SH-AWD.
It is only 0.2 sec slower than TL-S 6MT at 0-60/quarter mile based on MT roadtest. and TL-S 6MT is so low to the ground with small rims.
R&T has made it equal to TL-SH-AWD in first test. let see when later tests improve it.
C&D/Edmunds has yet to test it. But it is foregone conclusion that it will be faster than TL-SH-AWD. Edmunds already achieved 65dba on 4 cylinder auto.
Whole point is fuel economy/NVH/Speeds above 100mph that no other Acura can match it.
MotorTrend has already declared TSX V6 faster than 4G TL-SH-AWD.
It is only 0.2 sec slower than TL-S 6MT at 0-60/quarter mile based on MT roadtest. and TL-S 6MT is so low to the ground with small rims.
R&T has made it equal to TL-SH-AWD in first test. let see when later tests improve it.
C&D/Edmunds has yet to test it. But it is foregone conclusion that it will be faster than TL-SH-AWD. Edmunds already achieved 65dba on 4 cylinder auto.
Whole point is fuel economy/NVH/Speeds above 100mph that no other Acura can match it.
The TSX can be brake torqued the SH cant, for now the SH seems to be able to trap higher. Besides an NSX no other Acura product is faster than the TLS 6MT, right now, and that includes 1/4 mile and top end. The TL 6MT and TLS 6MT weigh less and put down more power being manual transmissions, at best the 3.5 auto matches the wheel output of the 3.2 MT. The fuel economy is still better on all 3G TL's, just look at the EPA's, and it's no secret that MT's are even better and TLS has active noise cancellation, also. The TSX V6 does use a larger diameter probably to keep a more comfortable ride and maintain traction, assuming there is no LSD. It weighs more than a 3G TLS auto on a larger diameter and we don't know the overall rim/tire weight and gearing to compare, so it is safe to say it is very similar to the TLS auto, no more no less. No offense, at least you are making a case for an Acura, but dont make such bold claims with so little evidence or just on assumption.
06-10-2009, 07:29 PM
#83
The TSX can be brake torqued the SH cant, for now the SH seems to be able to trap higher. Besides an NSX no other Acura product is faster than the TLS 6MT, right now, and that includes 1/4 mile and top end. The TL 6MT and TLS 6MT weigh less and put down more power being manual transmissions, at best the 3.5 auto matches the wheel output of the 3.2 MT. The fuel economy is still better on all 3G TL's, just look at the EPA's, and it's no secret that MT's are even better and TLS has active noise cancellation, also. The TSX V6 does use a larger diameter probably to keep a more comfortable ride and maintain traction, assuming there is no LSD. It weighs more than a 3G TLS auto on a larger diameter and we don't know the overall rim/tire weight and gearing to compare, so it is safe to say it is very similar to the TLS auto, no more no less. No offense, at least you are making a case for an Acura, but dont make such bold claims with so little evidence or just on assumption.
C&D achieved 0-60 in 6.7 second from 4clinder 2G TSX 6MT. and the same C&D achieve 5.5 sec for TL-S 6MT. TSX was still on all season tires..
V6 Auto TSX will be very close to matching 3G TL-S 6MT despite having more weight/larger rim size. and TSX V6 Auto will be quieter by atleast 6 dba NVH levels than 3G TL-S. TL-S Auto is not even in that league.
here is TL-S 6MT on 17 inch. 0-60 in 5.7second/14.3 second quarter mile. TSX Auto has 14.4second quarter mile and 5.9 second for 0-60. you can see TSX is closing the gap at quarter mile. and tables will be completely turned on 6MT once you go above 100mph. Forget about NVH levels. It is not even in competition with 4cylinder TSX let alone V6.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/d...d/02073car.pdf
There is simply no comparision interms of aerodynamics/NVH/Fuel economy at higher speeds.
You can see i am comparing. data from same magazines. Not mixing figures from different sources.
06-10-2009, 07:38 PM
#84
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TL was with HPT tires and TSX was with all season. Second Sh-AWD gets better number initially because of AWD system. Let see what happens in 0-120 mile sprint.
These were on 17inch performance tires and were lighter cars.
As i said do apple to apple comprisions. TSX is the quietest, most aerodynamic and fastest Acura into triple digit speeds. No one can dispute.
These were on 17inch performance tires and were lighter cars.
As i said do apple to apple comprisions. TSX is the quietest, most aerodynamic and fastest Acura into triple digit speeds. No one can dispute.
I'm not surprised that the TSX is the quietest, most aerodynamic and fastest Acura into triple digit speeds at this moment, disregarding all previous Acura cars.
06-10-2009, 07:44 PM
#85
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let see.
C&D achieved 0-60 in 6.7 second from 4clinder 2G TSX 6MT. and the same C&D achieve 5.5 sec for TL-S 6MT. TSX was still on all season tires..
V6 Auto TSX will be very close to matching 3G TL-S 6MT despite having more weight/larger rim size. and TSX V6 Auto will be quieter by atleast 6 dba NVH levels than 3G TL-S. TL-S Auto is not even in that league.
here is TL-S 6MT on 17 inch. 0-60 in 5.7second/14.3 second quarter mile. TSX Auto has 14.4second quarter mile and 5.9 second for 0-60. you can see TSX is closing the gap at quarter mile. and tables will be completely turned on 6MT once you go above 100mph. Forget about NVH levels. It is not even in competition with 4cylinder TSX let alone V6.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/d...d/02073car.pdf
There is simply no comparision interms of aerodynamics/NVH/Fuel economy at higher speeds.
You can see i am comparing. data from same magazines. Not mixing figures from different sources.
C&D achieved 0-60 in 6.7 second from 4clinder 2G TSX 6MT. and the same C&D achieve 5.5 sec for TL-S 6MT. TSX was still on all season tires..
V6 Auto TSX will be very close to matching 3G TL-S 6MT despite having more weight/larger rim size. and TSX V6 Auto will be quieter by atleast 6 dba NVH levels than 3G TL-S. TL-S Auto is not even in that league.
here is TL-S 6MT on 17 inch. 0-60 in 5.7second/14.3 second quarter mile. TSX Auto has 14.4second quarter mile and 5.9 second for 0-60. you can see TSX is closing the gap at quarter mile. and tables will be completely turned on 6MT once you go above 100mph. Forget about NVH levels. It is not even in competition with 4cylinder TSX let alone V6.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/d...d/02073car.pdf
There is simply no comparision interms of aerodynamics/NVH/Fuel economy at higher speeds.
You can see i am comparing. data from same magazines. Not mixing figures from different sources.
C&D got 14.1s@101mph in the TL-S 6MT. Can't simply base everything on one source buddy. TL-S Auto as tested by one of our moderators is a 14.3@97mph car. It was his first time drag racing by the way.
With that said, I won't be surprised that a TSX V6 6MT will be the fastest of them all..but unfortunately I don't think it will be made.
06-10-2009, 07:48 PM
#86
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You make a great point and i have been thinking this to for some time.
While I have been one thats been waiting for a V6 for some time in the TSX. What Honda is reminding me of is the old Muscle car wars back in the late 60's.
They have shoe horned an old engine into the TSX and upgraded the suspention a bit and the brake shoes and called it a day.....much like how in the 60's where you had a small block V8 then if you wanted more power you could order a big block and they would throw in an extra leave spring and an option for disc brakes and they believed all was fine.
When you look at all these first reviews the main complaints are handling and braking. Acura did a good job making a good straight line performer but they may have forgot about the rest of the performance that the TSX stands for....It will be interesting to see in the MMC or the 3G if they change a few things to improve on those areas in the V6 TSX.
You can see where Acura is trying to proceed with its model lines. I never really considered the TSX an entry level competitor as that is what the TL was for....now you can see they are trying to move the TL slowly towards the mid-level range hoping the TSX will finally be able to compete in the 3 series, A4, C-Class range. This is going to take a lot of time but if they can improve the quality, options, etc and do this in this tough economy then in about 5-8 years I can see them achieving their goal.
It might look forced now but im sure they are doing their market research etc and hopfully it will work out.
While I have been one thats been waiting for a V6 for some time in the TSX. What Honda is reminding me of is the old Muscle car wars back in the late 60's.
They have shoe horned an old engine into the TSX and upgraded the suspention a bit and the brake shoes and called it a day.....much like how in the 60's where you had a small block V8 then if you wanted more power you could order a big block and they would throw in an extra leave spring and an option for disc brakes and they believed all was fine.
When you look at all these first reviews the main complaints are handling and braking. Acura did a good job making a good straight line performer but they may have forgot about the rest of the performance that the TSX stands for....It will be interesting to see in the MMC or the 3G if they change a few things to improve on those areas in the V6 TSX.
You can see where Acura is trying to proceed with its model lines. I never really considered the TSX an entry level competitor as that is what the TL was for....now you can see they are trying to move the TL slowly towards the mid-level range hoping the TSX will finally be able to compete in the 3 series, A4, C-Class range. This is going to take a lot of time but if they can improve the quality, options, etc and do this in this tough economy then in about 5-8 years I can see them achieving their goal.
It might look forced now but im sure they are doing their market research etc and hopfully it will work out.
Perhaps there will be a Type S model in the future?
06-10-2009, 08:03 PM
#87
It's a Type S, I don't want my Type S to be quiet....
C&D got 14.1s@101mph in the TL-S 6MT. Can't simply base everything on one source buddy. TL-S Auto as tested by one of our moderators is a 14.3@97mph car. It was his first time drag racing by the way.
With that said, I won't be surprised that a TSX V6 6MT will be the fastest of them all..but unfortunately I don't think it will be made.
C&D got 14.1s@101mph in the TL-S 6MT. Can't simply base everything on one source buddy. TL-S Auto as tested by one of our moderators is a 14.3@97mph car. It was his first time drag racing by the way.
With that said, I won't be surprised that a TSX V6 6MT will be the fastest of them all..but unfortunately I don't think it will be made.
06-10-2009, 08:05 PM
#88
Good you agree on this point. but there is no car made by Acura that has all three qualities combined. and oh even NSX is only 0.25cd despite sitting so low on the ground.
06-10-2009, 08:36 PM
#89
I think they did this on purpose, as in I don't think the V6 model represents the sporty model of the TSX, unlike the SH-AWD TL. In terms of handling, seems like there's no consensus - some think it's worse than the I4, some say it's about the same as the I4. Braking on the other hand, most reviews are saying it's not so good.
Perhaps there will be a Type S model in the future?
Perhaps there will be a Type S model in the future?
here is Type S model. wont be surpized if it does come here. The blue readng in gauges, wheel arches, clear lanes blue hid and i believe seat desgn looks different.
http://www.honda.co.uk/cars/accordsa...ccordtypes.pdf
18" Alloy wheels
GT aero kit: including front spoiler, side skirts and rear diffuser†
Front fog lights
High Intensity Discharge (HID) headlights
Headlight washers
Auto levelling headlights
Automatic dusk sensing headlights
Front and rear parking sensors
Clear side indicators
Vehicle and Trailer Stability Assist (VSA & TSA)
Interior and perimeter alarm system (CAT 1)
Sports suspension
18" Alloy wheels
GT aero kit: including front spoiler, side skirts and rear diffuser†
Front fog lights
High Intensity Discharge (HID) headlights
Headlight washers
Auto levelling headlights
Automatic dusk sensing headlights
Front and rear parking sensors
Clear side indicators
Vehicle and Trailer Stability Assist (VSA & TSA)
Interior and perimeter alarm system (CAT 1)
Sports suspension
06-10-2009, 09:50 PM
#90
The TLS being the most powerful FWD Acura to this point has some difficulty hooking up at launch and most 3G 6MT TL's are running low 14's at around 99 mph, so it shouldn't be a surprise that the TLS 6MT is faster despite what may show up in the 1/4 mile. It puts down 20-25 more hp to the wheels over the 3.2 MT and the auto 3.5 and is about 100lbs lighter compared to the V6 TSX, no contest, simple physics, aerodynamics or not. Having owned both the 3G 6MT A-spec and the 6MT TLS, I can tell you that most of that extra power isn't really noticeable until high 4th gear, which is beyond the 1/4 mile, due to gearing. The fastest published time to date is 14.1 @ 101 mph, I doubt we will ever see this TSX V6 hit 100 mph stock. The TLS auto is also lighter on a smaller diameter with an LSD, so that is probably faster beyond the 1/4 mile than the TSX V6 as well. The SH is likely faster into triple digits, it has shown traps of 99 mph and no one will really know the results after that until they consecutively line up. The quietest and most aerodynamic, maybe, but that's all. I could care less about that to debate, I like to hear the engine when I get on it and the music is always on usually with the windows down and driving under 100 mph anyway.
Last edited by winstrolvtec; 06-10-2009 at 09:52 PM.
06-10-2009, 10:45 PM
#91
Three Wheelin'
Depends for what purpose your using car. I wont sit for hours in unrefined junk. Comfort/quietness/reliability/spaciouness are more important factors.
V6 TSX is not slow. It would be only 0.5 second difference at most with 335 at quartermile. and TSX still lacks 6speed auto transmission.
Ford Focus is POS. why some one would waste money on that.
And econoboxes like Fit/Civic/Corrolla rapidly lose there fuel economy advantage once you go above 70mph. the dont feel substantial. Feel like wind will blow them away from passing traffic.
I went from SF to LA in 4.5 hrs on I-5. when flow of traffic is at 70 to 80mph. u constantly needs drive upt 90/100 to overtake them in short burst.
V6 TSX is not slow. It would be only 0.5 second difference at most with 335 at quartermile. and TSX still lacks 6speed auto transmission.
Ford Focus is POS. why some one would waste money on that.
And econoboxes like Fit/Civic/Corrolla rapidly lose there fuel economy advantage once you go above 70mph. the dont feel substantial. Feel like wind will blow them away from passing traffic.
I went from SF to LA in 4.5 hrs on I-5. when flow of traffic is at 70 to 80mph. u constantly needs drive upt 90/100 to overtake them in short burst.
06-10-2009, 10:50 PM
#92
If comfort, quietness and spacious are more important to you, then why are you so obsessed with 0-60 and quarter-mile numbers?....make up your mind. You should have bought an Avalon if you like driving around in a coffin. The TSX V6 is no where near 335i territory, not even in the quarter mile, so don't start another stupid debate about it. The 335i is true benchmark sports sedan...the TSX doesn't even belong in the same sentence as a 335i.
Not to small and not to big. BMW without sport suspension and all season tires not great either.
06-10-2009, 10:56 PM
#93
The TLS being the most powerful FWD Acura to this point has some difficulty hooking up at launch and most 3G 6MT TL's are running low 14's at around 99 mph, so it shouldn't be a surprise that the TLS 6MT is faster despite what may show up in the 1/4 mile. It puts down 20-25 more hp to the wheels over the 3.2 MT and the auto 3.5 and is about 100lbs lighter compared to the V6 TSX, no contest, simple physics, aerodynamics or not. Having owned both the 3G 6MT A-spec and the 6MT TLS, I can tell you that most of that extra power isn't really noticeable until high 4th gear, which is beyond the 1/4 mile, due to gearing. The fastest published time to date is 14.1 @ 101 mph, I doubt we will ever see this TSX V6 hit 100 mph stock. The TLS auto is also lighter on a smaller diameter with an LSD, so that is probably faster beyond the 1/4 mile than the TSX V6 as well. The SH is likely faster into triple digits, it has shown traps of 99 mph and no one will really know the results after that until they consecutively line up. The quietest and most aerodynamic, maybe, but that's all. I could care less about that to debate, I like to hear the engine when I get on it and the music is always on usually with the windows down and driving under 100 mph anyway.
http://reviews.cnet.com/sedan/2008-a...-32574733.html
During this drive, we also got to work in some 0-to-60-mph runs. We made our best run with the traction control turned off, coming in at 6.4 seconds. To get this time took a lot of careful modulation of the throttle, because the tires were prone to spin in place under heavy acceleration. We also did a few runs with traction control on, achieving a best time of 6.65 seconds. Under these conditions, the tires were still prone to spin some, but the traction control kept it in check, and we didn't have to be quite as careful with the gas pedal
In sum
Acura uses a simplified pricing scheme, so unlike many other brands, you won't find big lists of options. Our 2008 Acura TL Type-S came with high-performance tires and all the electronics we mentioned above for a set price of $38,425. The $715 destination charge brings the total up to $39,140. Without the high-performance tires, the car goes for $200 less, and either version can be had with manual or automatic transmission with no difference in price. We highly recommend the manual transmission if you want to have fun, as the automatic is bland.
wait untill C&D test TSX V6. There wont be any difference with TL-S 6MT despite having not HPT option
06-10-2009, 11:00 PM
#94
Three Wheelin'
A 335i without sports suspension and all-season tires will still beat any Acura pretty handily.
06-10-2009, 11:47 PM
#95
Do these Magazines ever bring a BMW with out sport suspension?
What is impressive about this sport suspenions light weight car? absolutely nothing.
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpconta...2/pageNumber=1
0 - 30 (sec): 2.5
0 - 45 (sec): 4.5
0 - 60 (sec): 6.6
0 - 75 (sec): 10.0
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 14.96@96.84
Slalom (mph): 66.4
Turning Circle (ft), curb-to-curb: 36.1
Handling Rating: (Excellent, Good, Average, Poor or Very Poor) Excellent
Db @ Idle: 48.5
Db @ Full Throttle: 76.0
Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 66.6
Just show me BMW test with same weight, bhp as TSX without sport suspension and see how it is better than TSX. All BMW tested has is that $2K of sport suspension on hpt tires. offcoures they did the trick of turbo charging to make low spinning engine at 70mph NVH tests. but still high rpm V6 of TSX will be very close in NVH measurement. and another thing is BMW 3 is on average 1 inch less height. It is not aerodynamic. It just sit lower.
06-11-2009, 02:02 AM
#96
Too many statements, that you can't contest. You obviously have issues with using the information that best suites your false claims or wishful thinking. An article here or there with different acceleration outcomes mean nothing, that's called magazine racing. Believe what you want but you will be sadly disappointed in the REAL world. If you knew how to tell the difference, then you wouldn't have used the CNET review, it only shows bias and self contradiction. I am not here to pick on you but you need to be more objective, as many of us try to be. CNET is not an auto publication and they did not brake torque, every other publication will brake torgue the crap out of the car. If the auto can't hook up, imagine the 6MT and the TSX V6 will have to deal with the same thing or worse not having an LSD. Lower diameter with HPT's or not, the TSX V6 will still need to then overcome 100lbs and 20-25 wheel hp, it's very simple, NO.
Last edited by winstrolvtec; 06-11-2009 at 02:06 AM.
06-11-2009, 09:02 AM
#99
Car Enthusiast
Every mag is bias toward to a brand. Every car enthusiastic also bias toward the brand he/she likes. My buddies nothing but Audi, my in-law nothing but Honda, my father nothing but Toyota. With my experiences on affordable consumer's cars, in decent stock form BMW is best in handling, reliable and quiet is Toyota, reliable and racing enthusiastic is Honda, and so on. And I do agree with this "People obviously have issues with using the information that best suites your false claims or wishful thinking. An article here or there with different acceleration outcomes mean nothing, that's called magazine racing. Believe what you want but you will be sadly disappointed in the REAL world."
06-18-2009, 12:01 PM
#101
TSX V6 on 18inch.
TL FWD on 17inch.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do.../pageId=170943
0 - 30 (sec): 2.6
0 - 45 (sec): 4.3
0 - 60 (sec): 6.4
0 - 75 (sec): 9.4
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 14.7 @ 96.6
0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec): 6.1
30 - 0 (ft): 32
60 - 0 (ft): 133
Braking Rating (Excellent, Good, Average, Poor or Very Poor): Average
Slalom (mph): 65.1
Skid Pad Lateral acceleration (g): 0.84
Handling Rating (Excellent, Good, Average, Poor or Very Poor): Good
Db @ Idle: 41.8
Db @ Full Throttle: 78.4
Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 66.7
0 - 30 (sec): 2.6
0 - 45 (sec): 4.3
0 - 60 (sec): 6.4
0 - 75 (sec): 9.4
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 14.7 @ 96.6
0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec): 6.1
30 - 0 (ft): 32
60 - 0 (ft): 133
Braking Rating (Excellent, Good, Average, Poor or Very Poor): Average
Slalom (mph): 65.1
Skid Pad Lateral acceleration (g): 0.84
Handling Rating (Excellent, Good, Average, Poor or Very Poor): Good
Db @ Idle: 41.8
Db @ Full Throttle: 78.4
Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 66.7
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do.../pageId=152922
0 - 30 (sec): 2.7
0 - 45 (sec): 4.4
0 - 60 (sec): 6.7
0 - 75 (sec): 9.7
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 14.9 @ 94.8
0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec): 6.4
30 - 0 (ft): 31
60 - 0 (ft): 122
Braking Rating (Excellent, Good, Average, Poor or Very Poor): Good
Slalom (mph): 65.3
Skid Pad Lateral acceleration (g): 0.83
Handling Rating (Excellent, Good, Average, Poor or Very Poor): Good
Db @ Idle: 39.9
Db @ Full Throttle: 74.3
Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 69.1
0 - 30 (sec): 2.7
0 - 45 (sec): 4.4
0 - 60 (sec): 6.7
0 - 75 (sec): 9.7
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 14.9 @ 94.8
0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec): 6.4
30 - 0 (ft): 31
60 - 0 (ft): 122
Braking Rating (Excellent, Good, Average, Poor or Very Poor): Good
Slalom (mph): 65.3
Skid Pad Lateral acceleration (g): 0.83
Handling Rating (Excellent, Good, Average, Poor or Very Poor): Good
Db @ Idle: 39.9
Db @ Full Throttle: 74.3
Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 69.1
06-18-2009, 02:41 PM
#104
06-18-2009, 03:04 PM
#105
WTF?? i read this thread and I'm like - who the F*** cares about ANY of this anywya.
why does it matter if the V6 TSX is some few tenths quicker or slower than TL-S in the quarter? honestly, if you are worried about drag racing, or 1/4 miles times, then WTF are you buying a FWD Acura for in the first place???
i can appreciate wanting to know how fast a particular car is - but to carry on a three page thread and rant back and forth about which one is quicker - omfg...
the TSX is a nice car.
the TL-S is a nice car
a TL-S or a TSX V6 are essentially the same thing. Yes, you can nitpick the various MINUTE differences, but each is a FWD V6 with "about" 280 hp. curb weights may be 100lbs off - so the F***what. in the real world that is nothing. yes...if YOU drive SOLO all the time, on 1/4 tank of gas...many of us "car guys" CAN tell the difference in power based on 100lbs. in the REAL world, you have things call "passengers" that go in all those other seats...and stuff called "junk" that is in your trunk.... you know what i mean.
if one car is 300-400lbs more/less han another, i would say that's a lot. 100lbs isn't $hit. one car with an empty tank vs one with a full tank - wipes out the difference. hell, some of you on this board probably weigh 100lbs more than another person - so we can just switch who sits in which car - and no more weight advantage... my point is - you people are nitpickign this nonsense to death and none of it makes any freakin difference.
the TL that exists now - is more like the RL of yesterday. it is big. it is AWD. it is in a new segment than what the TL waas in back in 07-08.
the TSX of today is the TL of yesterday. so the fact that they are puttin ga V6 into the new TSX, just shows that they recognize that there are still people who like the size/dimensions of the "old" 3G TL and want THAT sized car but with the torque of a V6.
the new TL is moving upmarket. I don't see it as exactly the same type of car as the older RL, as that car catered to an older clientele...but the new TL is clearly a move upward in size. sit in a 2008 RL, then sit in a 2009 TL.
sit in a 3G TL then go sit in a 2009 TSX. they feel very similar in size. the 4 banger of the new TSX however, makes the dirving experience much different.
in the end, the new TSX V6 is going to be VERY VERY VERY similar to the old TL or TL-S. i'll bet it's not quite as stiff, but it will be quicker/sportier driving than the I4 model.
to sit here and rant about which one is faster is like saying whethe ra 2008 Vette or a 2009 Vette is faster. they are the same damn thing wiht minor changes.
talk about $hit that matters
why does it matter if the V6 TSX is some few tenths quicker or slower than TL-S in the quarter? honestly, if you are worried about drag racing, or 1/4 miles times, then WTF are you buying a FWD Acura for in the first place???
i can appreciate wanting to know how fast a particular car is - but to carry on a three page thread and rant back and forth about which one is quicker - omfg...
the TSX is a nice car.
the TL-S is a nice car
a TL-S or a TSX V6 are essentially the same thing. Yes, you can nitpick the various MINUTE differences, but each is a FWD V6 with "about" 280 hp. curb weights may be 100lbs off - so the F***what. in the real world that is nothing. yes...if YOU drive SOLO all the time, on 1/4 tank of gas...many of us "car guys" CAN tell the difference in power based on 100lbs. in the REAL world, you have things call "passengers" that go in all those other seats...and stuff called "junk" that is in your trunk.... you know what i mean.
if one car is 300-400lbs more/less han another, i would say that's a lot. 100lbs isn't $hit. one car with an empty tank vs one with a full tank - wipes out the difference. hell, some of you on this board probably weigh 100lbs more than another person - so we can just switch who sits in which car - and no more weight advantage... my point is - you people are nitpickign this nonsense to death and none of it makes any freakin difference.
the TL that exists now - is more like the RL of yesterday. it is big. it is AWD. it is in a new segment than what the TL waas in back in 07-08.
the TSX of today is the TL of yesterday. so the fact that they are puttin ga V6 into the new TSX, just shows that they recognize that there are still people who like the size/dimensions of the "old" 3G TL and want THAT sized car but with the torque of a V6.
the new TL is moving upmarket. I don't see it as exactly the same type of car as the older RL, as that car catered to an older clientele...but the new TL is clearly a move upward in size. sit in a 2008 RL, then sit in a 2009 TL.
sit in a 3G TL then go sit in a 2009 TSX. they feel very similar in size. the 4 banger of the new TSX however, makes the dirving experience much different.
in the end, the new TSX V6 is going to be VERY VERY VERY similar to the old TL or TL-S. i'll bet it's not quite as stiff, but it will be quicker/sportier driving than the I4 model.
to sit here and rant about which one is faster is like saying whethe ra 2008 Vette or a 2009 Vette is faster. they are the same damn thing wiht minor changes.
talk about $hit that matters
06-18-2009, 03:16 PM
#106
the real point of this thread in the FIRST place was to discus the impact of the TSX V6 on the 4G TL.
i don't think it will impact it a smuch as many think as they are different cars. drive a TSX then drive a 4G TL. very different. the TSX is smaller - like a 3G TL. the new 4G TL feels like a boat by comparison.
the new TL is fugly too. the new TSX actually looks good.
i honestly think the V6 TSX woudl be a real winner if they coudl price it low enough.
where there WILL be impact is if they price it too high - which sounds like they have - and you have too small of a gap between a V6 TSX and a TL base or TL base w/tech.
people will psychologically see the TL as a "better" car b/c it is bigger and a "step up" on the Acura heirarchy, and if it's only a coule grand more to get into a the TL, it makes the TSX V6 seem like a bad buy....
i don't think it will impact it a smuch as many think as they are different cars. drive a TSX then drive a 4G TL. very different. the TSX is smaller - like a 3G TL. the new 4G TL feels like a boat by comparison.
the new TL is fugly too. the new TSX actually looks good.
i honestly think the V6 TSX woudl be a real winner if they coudl price it low enough.
where there WILL be impact is if they price it too high - which sounds like they have - and you have too small of a gap between a V6 TSX and a TL base or TL base w/tech.
people will psychologically see the TL as a "better" car b/c it is bigger and a "step up" on the Acura heirarchy, and if it's only a coule grand more to get into a the TL, it makes the TSX V6 seem like a bad buy....
06-25-2009, 03:10 PM
#107
Instructor
Regardless of the prestige factor and bulid quality of the new TL I just don't care for it even though the price difference may be minimal when comparing to the new TSX V6.
I love my 3G and have test driven both new versions of the TL and TSX, just didn't like the 4 banger in the TSX and didn't care for the looks and bland feel of the new TL.
The TSX not only looks better imho but has the smaller sporty feel similar to the 3G, now that it will come in the V6 I would seriously consider buying one.
Don't get me wrong, the 4G is a nice car but just not my style unfortunately.
The new TSX may give me everything I was looking for in a replacement for the 3G regardless of price tag.
I love my 3G and have test driven both new versions of the TL and TSX, just didn't like the 4 banger in the TSX and didn't care for the looks and bland feel of the new TL.
The TSX not only looks better imho but has the smaller sporty feel similar to the 3G, now that it will come in the V6 I would seriously consider buying one.
Don't get me wrong, the 4G is a nice car but just not my style unfortunately.
The new TSX may give me everything I was looking for in a replacement for the 3G regardless of price tag.
06-25-2009, 03:51 PM
#108
10th Gear
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Anyone else think there is going to be a rebate or dealer cash right off the bat on the V6 TSX?
If you price an 09 TL with Tech w/ Dealer Cash, you'll come out less than the TSX V6 with Tech.
Seems like a no brainer $$ wise.
Unless they offer a $1500+ incentive I think they will have a hard time getting rid of them unless they are counting on the people who think the TL is ugly.
Should have been:
TSX - 4 cyl Turbo or V6
TL - V6 SH-AWD
RL - V8 SH AWD
If you price an 09 TL with Tech w/ Dealer Cash, you'll come out less than the TSX V6 with Tech.
Seems like a no brainer $$ wise.
Unless they offer a $1500+ incentive I think they will have a hard time getting rid of them unless they are counting on the people who think the TL is ugly.
Should have been:
TSX - 4 cyl Turbo or V6
TL - V6 SH-AWD
RL - V8 SH AWD
06-25-2009, 04:01 PM
#109
Instructor
WTF?? i read this thread and I'm like - who the F*** cares about ANY of this anywya.
why does it matter if the V6 TSX is some few tenths quicker or slower than TL-S in the quarter? honestly, if you are worried about drag racing, or 1/4 miles times, then WTF are you buying a FWD Acura for in the first place???
i can appreciate wanting to know how fast a particular car is - but to carry on a three page thread and rant back and forth about which one is quicker - omfg...
the TSX is a nice car.
the TL-S is a nice car
a TL-S or a TSX V6 are essentially the same thing. Yes, you can nitpick the various MINUTE differences, but each is a FWD V6 with "about" 280 hp. curb weights may be 100lbs off - so the F***what. in the real world that is nothing. yes...if YOU drive SOLO all the time, on 1/4 tank of gas...many of us "car guys" CAN tell the difference in power based on 100lbs. in the REAL world, you have things call "passengers" that go in all those other seats...and stuff called "junk" that is in your trunk.... you know what i mean.
if one car is 300-400lbs more/less han another, i would say that's a lot. 100lbs isn't $hit. one car with an empty tank vs one with a full tank - wipes out the difference. hell, some of you on this board probably weigh 100lbs more than another person - so we can just switch who sits in which car - and no more weight advantage... my point is - you people are nitpickign this nonsense to death and none of it makes any freakin difference.
the TL that exists now - is more like the RL of yesterday. it is big. it is AWD. it is in a new segment than what the TL waas in back in 07-08.
the TSX of today is the TL of yesterday. so the fact that they are puttin ga V6 into the new TSX, just shows that they recognize that there are still people who like the size/dimensions of the "old" 3G TL and want THAT sized car but with the torque of a V6.
the new TL is moving upmarket. I don't see it as exactly the same type of car as the older RL, as that car catered to an older clientele...but the new TL is clearly a move upward in size. sit in a 2008 RL, then sit in a 2009 TL.
sit in a 3G TL then go sit in a 2009 TSX. they feel very similar in size. the 4 banger of the new TSX however, makes the dirving experience much different.
in the end, the new TSX V6 is going to be VERY VERY VERY similar to the old TL or TL-S. i'll bet it's not quite as stiff, but it will be quicker/sportier driving than the I4 model.
to sit here and rant about which one is faster is like saying whethe ra 2008 Vette or a 2009 Vette is faster. they are the same damn thing wiht minor changes.
talk about $hit that matters
why does it matter if the V6 TSX is some few tenths quicker or slower than TL-S in the quarter? honestly, if you are worried about drag racing, or 1/4 miles times, then WTF are you buying a FWD Acura for in the first place???
i can appreciate wanting to know how fast a particular car is - but to carry on a three page thread and rant back and forth about which one is quicker - omfg...
the TSX is a nice car.
the TL-S is a nice car
a TL-S or a TSX V6 are essentially the same thing. Yes, you can nitpick the various MINUTE differences, but each is a FWD V6 with "about" 280 hp. curb weights may be 100lbs off - so the F***what. in the real world that is nothing. yes...if YOU drive SOLO all the time, on 1/4 tank of gas...many of us "car guys" CAN tell the difference in power based on 100lbs. in the REAL world, you have things call "passengers" that go in all those other seats...and stuff called "junk" that is in your trunk.... you know what i mean.
if one car is 300-400lbs more/less han another, i would say that's a lot. 100lbs isn't $hit. one car with an empty tank vs one with a full tank - wipes out the difference. hell, some of you on this board probably weigh 100lbs more than another person - so we can just switch who sits in which car - and no more weight advantage... my point is - you people are nitpickign this nonsense to death and none of it makes any freakin difference.
the TL that exists now - is more like the RL of yesterday. it is big. it is AWD. it is in a new segment than what the TL waas in back in 07-08.
the TSX of today is the TL of yesterday. so the fact that they are puttin ga V6 into the new TSX, just shows that they recognize that there are still people who like the size/dimensions of the "old" 3G TL and want THAT sized car but with the torque of a V6.
the new TL is moving upmarket. I don't see it as exactly the same type of car as the older RL, as that car catered to an older clientele...but the new TL is clearly a move upward in size. sit in a 2008 RL, then sit in a 2009 TL.
sit in a 3G TL then go sit in a 2009 TSX. they feel very similar in size. the 4 banger of the new TSX however, makes the dirving experience much different.
in the end, the new TSX V6 is going to be VERY VERY VERY similar to the old TL or TL-S. i'll bet it's not quite as stiff, but it will be quicker/sportier driving than the I4 model.
to sit here and rant about which one is faster is like saying whethe ra 2008 Vette or a 2009 Vette is faster. they are the same damn thing wiht minor changes.
talk about $hit that matters
I couldn't agree more, and as far as prices go we should wait until they are sitting on the lot.
I'm willing to bet Acura will end up selling more V6 TSX's than 4G TL's in the long run.
06-27-2009, 04:37 PM
#110
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Most of the 4G TL's I've seen in SoCal had women at the wheel.
07-03-2009, 04:54 PM
#112
Yea, It's Me!
07-03-2009, 06:04 PM
#113
07-11-2009, 09:17 AM
#114
Suzuka Master
So what is Acura thinking, $5+K premium for V6 in TSX? Why woudl someone buy the TSX when for a few bucks more they get a TL, and forgetting the size, weight differences, the technology and amenities int he TL more than justify the TL! I don't see someone paying $5K just for V6 and bigger wheels.
07-11-2009, 03:50 PM
#115
So what is Acura thinking, $5+K premium for V6 in TSX? Why woudl someone buy the TSX when for a few bucks more they get a TL, and forgetting the size, weight differences, the technology and amenities int he TL more than justify the TL! I don't see someone paying $5K just for V6 and bigger wheels.
For example if Some one bought 2009 TSX for $29K this year and some one bought 2009 TSX last year for $32K last April. and by end of next year both cars will around $23K. that $3K is extra premium for driving 2009 model year so early in 2008 rather than dusting car for six months in open space dealership.
18inch rim upgrade, active noise, larger brake are alone worth $3K. based on MSRP prices they are close to neutral.
07-11-2009, 05:03 PM
#116
So what is Acura thinking, $5+K premium for V6 in TSX? Why woudl someone buy the TSX when for a few bucks more they get a TL, and forgetting the size, weight differences, the technology and amenities int he TL more than justify the TL! I don't see someone paying $5K just for V6 and bigger wheels.
I think that is exactly what they are thinking. The TSX V6 is a marketing and segment tool and if they sell a few even better. With the current RL on the way out, they are giving the TSX a little something to at least place it in the entry segment comparison now and it gets people finally realizing the true value of a mid sized TL.
The TSX is a limited production prop, nontheless a very welcome addition and it's priced to help sell more mass produced FWD TL's. They invested too much money on the success of the TL and even base TSX to jeopardize it with a cheaper V6 TSX. This is the only way for them to not chance anything, and create a gainful situation no matter what. Plus it is time for Acura to start better segmenting their sedan lineup and this new model is the foundation for that and the pricing reflects that the TSX is picking up where the 3G TL left off, with something in between the offerings of the base and TLS.
This generation TL and TSX have been made larger for this reason and the TSX is now big enough to even be grouped in by size with the current late generation premium mid sized vehicles waiting on their new designs and the TL was made even bigger then they are now to compensate and later compete with their upcoming new generation models. The 5, E, and A6, even the M have new designs coming within a year, if they are not out already.
07-20-2009, 10:50 PM
#117
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I did not read all the replies, but I will go back and do so. But I was talking with a friend about the TSX v6 tonight- actually kinda arguing lol so I wanted to share my thoughts. This reminds me of 2002 when the new alitma came out. the 240hp SE was a far more modern and better car then the current maxima at that time. Any Alitma with the v6 was superior to the maxima. And the altima became Nissans best selling car. While the TSX is not an all new design. I feel it will do similar damage to the new TL which I think has moved upscale and more lux than sport. 3971 pounds!! for the TL Sh jeez.. a 5 series BMW with the twin turbo is only 3660! The tsx is also quiet heavy how is it 3680?? thats crazy when the TL is 3700 or so. Regardless it is fast than a Base TL and I bet handles alot better. Acura needs to add a coupe, and an entry level car.. the integra was always its top seller, I dont know where they are headed but it seems like more lux than sport these days.
07-20-2009, 10:58 PM
#118
I feel strongly both ways
I did not read all the replies, but I will go back and do so. But I was talking with a friend about the TSX v6 tonight- actually kinda arguing lol so I wanted to share my thoughts. This reminds me of 2002 when the new alitma came out. the 240hp SE was a far more modern and better car then the current maxima at that time. Any Alitma with the v6 was superior to the maxima. And the altima became Nissans best selling car. While the TSX is not an all new design. I feel it will do similar damage to the new TL which I think has moved upscale and more lux than sport. 3971 pounds!! for the TL Sh jeez.. a 5 series BMW with the twin turbo is only 3660! The tsx is also quiet heavy how is it 3680?? thats crazy when the TL is 3700 or so. Regardless it is fast than a Base TL and I bet handles alot better. Acura needs to add a coupe, and an entry level car.. the integra was always its top seller, I dont know where they are headed but it seems like more lux than sport these days.
Features & Specs
Weight
Unladen – Manual transmission
3902 lbs
Unladen – STEPTRONIC automatic transmission
3946 lbs
Weight distribution, front/rear – Manual transmission
53.1/46.9%
Weight distribution, front/rear – STEPTRONIC automatic transmission
53.4/46.6 %
Engine
Liter/type
3.0/inline 6
Bore/stroke
3.31x 3.53 inch
Nominal output hp/rpm
300/5800
Max. torque lb-ft/rpm
300/1400-5000
Compression ratio
10.2 :1
Fuel grade
Unleaded premium
Transmission
Manual gear ratios – I/II/III
4.06/2.40/1.58:1
Manual gear ratios – IV/V/VI/R
1.19/1.00/.087/3.68:1
Manual gear ratios – Final drive ratio
3.08 :1
STEPTRONIC automatic gear ratios – I/II/III
4.17/2.34/1.52 :1
STEPTRONIC automatic gear ratios – IV/V/VI/R
1.14/0.87/0.69/3.40 :1
STEPTRONIC automatic gear ratios – Final drive ratio
3.46 :1
Performance
Drag coefficient
0.31 Cd
Top speed1
150 mph
Acceleration 0 –60 mph – Manual transmission2
5.5 sec
Acceleration 0 –60 mph – STEPTRONIC automatic transmission2
5.6 sec
Fuel consumption
Manual transmission – City/Highway3
16/25 mpg
STEPTRONIC automatic transmission – City/Highway 3
17/25 mpg
Fuel capacity
18.5 U.S. gal
Tires and Wheels
Tire dimensions
225/50R-17 standard
Wheel dimensions
17x7.5 standard
Material
cast alloy standard
Brakes
Front – diameter
13.7 in
Rear – diameter
13.6 in
1. Top speed limited electronically.
07-20-2009, 11:08 PM
#119
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Faster than both TL's enuff said~ and how the hell is the SH slower than the base TL lol
some early numbers are in. 0-60 5.9 second from MotorTrend. quarter mile at 98mph.
Pretty respectable for 18inch all season tires compared to 17inch TL/ES. Maxima has performance tires. It will be interesting to see what happens after 100mph.
I am sure C&D can beat this number.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...v_6/index.html
Not only is the auto's manual mode responsive, smooth, and relatively quick, it also helps scoot the TSX down the dragstrip with alarming alacrity. Zero to 60? How about 5.9 seconds. Quarter mile? Try 14.5 at 97.8 mph. Neither the 290-hp Nissan Maxima 3.5 SV (6.0, 14.5 at 99.0) nor the 272-hp Lexus ES 350 (6.5, 14.9 at 96.0) is quicker. Ditto for the front-drive TL (6.2, 14.6 at 96.9) as well as the 305-horse TL SH-AWD (6.5, 14.8 at 96.9). And the four-cylinder TSX? As I mentioned earlier, the standard I-4 is no dog of an engine -- 0 to 60 in a respectable 7.0 flat and the quarter mile in 15.3 at 92.6 when paired with the six-speed manual -- but it's obvious why Acura chose to add the 3.5 to the lineup. It's over a second quicker to 60, and it puts Acura in a more competitive position against such foes as the ES, Maxima, and freshened Lincoln MKZ.
Pretty respectable for 18inch all season tires compared to 17inch TL/ES. Maxima has performance tires. It will be interesting to see what happens after 100mph.
I am sure C&D can beat this number.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...v_6/index.html
Not only is the auto's manual mode responsive, smooth, and relatively quick, it also helps scoot the TSX down the dragstrip with alarming alacrity. Zero to 60? How about 5.9 seconds. Quarter mile? Try 14.5 at 97.8 mph. Neither the 290-hp Nissan Maxima 3.5 SV (6.0, 14.5 at 99.0) nor the 272-hp Lexus ES 350 (6.5, 14.9 at 96.0) is quicker. Ditto for the front-drive TL (6.2, 14.6 at 96.9) as well as the 305-horse TL SH-AWD (6.5, 14.8 at 96.9). And the four-cylinder TSX? As I mentioned earlier, the standard I-4 is no dog of an engine -- 0 to 60 in a respectable 7.0 flat and the quarter mile in 15.3 at 92.6 when paired with the six-speed manual -- but it's obvious why Acura chose to add the 3.5 to the lineup. It's over a second quicker to 60, and it puts Acura in a more competitive position against such foes as the ES, Maxima, and freshened Lincoln MKZ.
07-20-2009, 11:10 PM
#120
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LOL I didnt say the xi! the regular rwd one lol but still lighter and faster either way.
Joey, you need to do your homework! Right off the BMW website for the 535xi:
Features & Specs
Weight
Unladen – Manual transmission
3902 lbs
Unladen – STEPTRONIC automatic transmission
3946 lbs
Weight distribution, front/rear – Manual transmission
53.1/46.9%
Weight distribution, front/rear – STEPTRONIC automatic transmission
53.4/46.6 %
Engine
Liter/type
3.0/inline 6
Bore/stroke
3.31x 3.53 inch
Nominal output hp/rpm
300/5800
Max. torque lb-ft/rpm
300/1400-5000
Compression ratio
10.2 :1
Fuel grade
Unleaded premium
Transmission
Manual gear ratios – I/II/III
4.06/2.40/1.58:1
Manual gear ratios – IV/V/VI/R
1.19/1.00/.087/3.68:1
Manual gear ratios – Final drive ratio
3.08 :1
STEPTRONIC automatic gear ratios – I/II/III
4.17/2.34/1.52 :1
STEPTRONIC automatic gear ratios – IV/V/VI/R
1.14/0.87/0.69/3.40 :1
STEPTRONIC automatic gear ratios – Final drive ratio
3.46 :1
Performance
Drag coefficient
0.31 Cd
Top speed1
150 mph
Acceleration 0 –60 mph – Manual transmission2
5.5 sec
Acceleration 0 –60 mph – STEPTRONIC automatic transmission2
5.6 sec
Fuel consumption
Manual transmission – City/Highway3
16/25 mpg
STEPTRONIC automatic transmission – City/Highway 3
17/25 mpg
Fuel capacity
18.5 U.S. gal
Tires and Wheels
Tire dimensions
225/50R-17 standard
Wheel dimensions
17x7.5 standard
Material
cast alloy standard
Brakes
Front – diameter
13.7 in
Rear – diameter
13.6 in
1. Top speed limited electronically.
Features & Specs
Weight
Unladen – Manual transmission
3902 lbs
Unladen – STEPTRONIC automatic transmission
3946 lbs
Weight distribution, front/rear – Manual transmission
53.1/46.9%
Weight distribution, front/rear – STEPTRONIC automatic transmission
53.4/46.6 %
Engine
Liter/type
3.0/inline 6
Bore/stroke
3.31x 3.53 inch
Nominal output hp/rpm
300/5800
Max. torque lb-ft/rpm
300/1400-5000
Compression ratio
10.2 :1
Fuel grade
Unleaded premium
Transmission
Manual gear ratios – I/II/III
4.06/2.40/1.58:1
Manual gear ratios – IV/V/VI/R
1.19/1.00/.087/3.68:1
Manual gear ratios – Final drive ratio
3.08 :1
STEPTRONIC automatic gear ratios – I/II/III
4.17/2.34/1.52 :1
STEPTRONIC automatic gear ratios – IV/V/VI/R
1.14/0.87/0.69/3.40 :1
STEPTRONIC automatic gear ratios – Final drive ratio
3.46 :1
Performance
Drag coefficient
0.31 Cd
Top speed1
150 mph
Acceleration 0 –60 mph – Manual transmission2
5.5 sec
Acceleration 0 –60 mph – STEPTRONIC automatic transmission2
5.6 sec
Fuel consumption
Manual transmission – City/Highway3
16/25 mpg
STEPTRONIC automatic transmission – City/Highway 3
17/25 mpg
Fuel capacity
18.5 U.S. gal
Tires and Wheels
Tire dimensions
225/50R-17 standard
Wheel dimensions
17x7.5 standard
Material
cast alloy standard
Brakes
Front – diameter
13.7 in
Rear – diameter
13.6 in
1. Top speed limited electronically.