zootjeff

With the aggressive ad campaign, faltering economy, high but coming down gas prices, perceived poor styling, etc. How is the new TL selling?

-Jeff

maverickinvestor

Jeff,

My guess is the 09 TL is selling poorly.

I have lost count of how many pictures I just went through on this website showing Acura dealers painting the grill on the front and that silver strip on the back of the new TL! I think I read on one thread that a dealer is having 8 of his just arrived TLs repainted!!

So many dealers would not be doing these wholesale paint jobs so early in the car introduction unless they are getting a lot of negative feedbacks from the customers coming in.

It's really such a shame that Acura did not style the exterior right when by most accounts the handling and the interior of the 4G are well executed.

But in this terrible economic condition and fierce competition, esp for major purchases such as cars, you need to execute every detail right!

I believe Acura sold about 80,000 TL back in 2004 when the 3G was first introduced.

My guess is that they'll be lucky if they can hit 50,000 for the 09 TLs.

But since the TL comes out of the same OH factory as the Accord, Honda will just shift the production to the Accord which is doing better I think.

We'll probably be seeing considerable discounts on the 4G TL much earlier in the cycle as compared to the 3G.

Any one else care to venture a guess?

Ac Man

I really don't think it's fair to compare the sales of the TL 4th gen TL to the 3rd, because we all know that the two launched in totally different times. If the situations were the same, it still probably wouldn't be a fair comparison, because of the huge price difference. People who were able to afford the 3rd gen might not be able to afford the 4th gen, especially in these hard economic times. Also, I think many folks are holding out for the SH-AWD version. I think we'll get a better idea of a sales forecast after the AWD model comes out. We'll see.

proton77

Some dealers have started knocking $1,000-1,200 off the MSRP.

cjTL

iTrader: (2)

Correct- Ed Martin Acura of Indianapolis. The salesman said that they had 8 grilles being painted and had intentions of continuing to paint more of 'em. Why? He said to "simply to enhance the already appealing design."
Rightttt.

PetesTL

It's not just the TL. New car sales in geneal are down 10-40% this year. GM is on the brink of bankruptcy, Ford is closing down more and more plants, and even Toyota sales are down 30%. Foreclosures are skyrocketing. The average home value now is at the same level as in 2004. We are in a recession.....no doubt about it.

maverickinvestor

Acura has projected sale of 70,000 2009 TLs with 80% being non AWD and 20% AWD.

So unless their projection of the sale breakdown is off, AWD is not going to make up for the slack.

I thought the price increase from 3G to 4G is less than the price increase of the 2G from the 3G.

A straight comparison between the 3G vs 4G is not certainly fair considering the huge difference in economic conditions.

A way to gauge how much a drop in TL sale is dues to the redesign vs economic troubles is to compare % sales decreases between the TL and it's target competitors.

Acura should have less of a decrease in comparison to some of the competitors considering this is a new model and should be generating additional excitement and sale.

But if the numbers come out that Acura is suffering a larger decrease than its competitors, then you know it's the redesign!

maverickinvestor

I am sure Art Osborne is real happy about all these "enhancements" to his design so early in the 4G's introduction!

maverickinvestor

If the TL sales number do disappoint, I hope Acura doesn't chuck it up all to the general economic malaise.

After all, the recession is not causing Acura dealers to do wholesale paint jobs to their RL, MDX, TSX fleets!

Acura management should not stick their heads in the sand and pretend it's just the economy.

They need to listen to their customers and their dealers!

PetesTL

It IS the economy! This is not some bump in the road stuff! Do you have any clue what is going on in the US financial system? Do you follow the market? We are in the midst of one of the greatest financial and economic crisis in the last 100 years! Every automaker is losing TONS of money right now. New car sales are at all-time lows. Even imports like Honda and Toyota have seen loses at 25-30%! One of the biggest companies in the world, GM, is on the verge of brankruptcy! Ford is shutting down 1/3 of all their auto plants by Spring of 2009. Yeah, some people may be turned-off by the new TL's styling, but the truth of the matter is that most people just plain don't have the money these days to get a big purchase like a new car...or even have credits good enough for the banks to lend money. Guys, you need to realize we are living in scary, scary times.

sameerg

the people at ed martin acura indy are a-holes

cjTL

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, I can agree. I've gotten the same treatment from Hubler though and Ed Martin is closer to where I live. One-stop shopping though...BMW, Mercedes, Infiniti, Audi, and Porsche are all within a stone's throw.

sameerg

i went to buy a 3g tl from ed martin and the staff put me off. the same day i went to infiniti and infiniti sold me a car. that's what you call salesmanship

maverickinvestor

Pete, I agree with you that the general economic condition is negatively impacting sales of the new TL. But I disagree with you in that you seem to think the new styling is not contributing to the TL's sales decline.

If the economy is the only culprit for the new TL's sales drop and not the new styling, then why would many Acura dealers around the country do these paint jobs on the TL's grille and rear?

Don't you think negative customers' reactions might be prompting them to do so or do you really believe the dealers are doing them just "simply to enhance the already appealing design." ?

My guess is the dealers are doing it for the first reason!

I don't think car dealers in this terrible economic environment would be spending hundreds of dollars upfront painting these things on each TL unless they thought that would help with sales!

PetesTL

I'm not saying the styling has no effect.....in my opinion, it's minor compared to the greater economic condition that is affecting the nation and the auto industry as a whole. You seem to think that this painted grill thing is going on in every Acura dealer in the country......it's not. None of the Acura dealers that I know of in the Chicago area are doing it. So far, we have just a handful of dealers mainly in the West Coast that are doing it (the only ones posted here in this forum are from Keyes Acura and a couple of other dealers)......just a handful out of hundreds and hundreds of Acura dealers in the country. And I disagree that the ones painting the grills are losing "hundreds" of dollars.........it's just a grill, not a door or a hood.....probably cost the dealer about 20 bucks in parts & labor.....and they in turn charge the customer an additional $200 for the "privilege" of having a painted grill.

Ac Man

If people don't like the 4th gen TL, painting the grill is not going to change their minds. Like Obama said, "If you put lipstick on a pig, it's still a pig!". No minor paint job is going save the car in some people's minds, and I hope nobody is stupid enough to believe that. The car doesn't look bad at all, and I think the paint does help it look better. Like Pete said, it's the terrible economy, not the styling as to why we're not seeing them on the road. Unless you have a job that you are secure in, you're not going to make a major purchase that you might not be able to pay for in a few months. And like I said, you cannot compare the sales of the '04 TL with the '09 TL, because the '04 TL did not launch during a fucking recession!

PetesTL

Exactly!

vas25tl

maverickinvestor

Pete,

If you don't think the West coast dealers are painting the grille because of customer complaints and negative sales impact, why do you think they are doing it then?

maverickinvestor

It seems to me that based on the popularity of the thread of '09 with painted front grill" in this forum, I would not discount the importance of the "minor paint job".

Reading that thread, it seems to me that quite a few "I hate the grill" people had their minds changed to the positive with these "minor paint jobs".

If I were an Acura dealer, I would hate to lose customers because of a issue that might be solved by a "minor paint job".

TL being the largest sales contributor in the Acura lineup, if a "minor paint job" allows a dealer to save a sale in this crummy economy, you can bet more and more of these dealers will be doing them, regardless of what Acura HQ memo states!

PetesTL

Are you kidding?! West Coast dealers always have and will continue to do ANYTHING to their cars to make them look "special".....chrome wheels, monster wheels, body cladding, huge spoilers, tinted windows, special ID badges, etc, etc. The Fast and the Furious are alive and well in LA. Those decked-out 4G TL's from Keyes Acura....you will never see in Chicago showrooms. I sent an email today to my sales agent about the whole grill painting thing going on.....he replied back stating that he thought it was all a joke.

usaf2008

By economic definition we are not in a recession. The country is hurting but most of that doesn't effect the people who buy Acura's, Lexus, Infiniti, and other luxury brands. Some of it does obviously but those are people who probably shouldn't be spending 40k on a car in the first place. It is a combination of things but I talked to a sales guy at Niello Acura in Sacramento and he thinks it's the design. He said it's the first thing he hears when someone is car shopping are the complaints about design. He also has had some complaints about the weight increase and no manual transmission but he hasn't sold a single new TL and they are ordering all the 08 TL's they can get their hands on as well as Elk Grove Acura to keep selling vehicles. He says the 08s are selling fine. He's sold 4 in the second week of October. From this salesman's mouth the new design is killing the selling of the car.

usaf2008

If you are authentically concerned about the times we are living in and the economy is so bad and such why did you go buy a brand new car? Don't claim we're living in scary times a few weeks after you buy a new car. Or are you saying these scary times apply to everyone but you?

KeithL

The economic situaton is not effecting people that buy Acura's? Really? Actually I would argue it effects Acura, Infiniti, etc first as the reason these name plates have grown over the years are the number of people that extend credit to get such name plate cars. This is a tight economy these over excesses of the middle class are the first to go. And I am no economic major, but as with most thinsg measured, but the time the mesaurement is met and verified you are well into it, is it no somehting liek 2 quaters of slowed or lowered growth, well while we may not be at the end of the 2nd quarter I woudl say we are well into the beginning of a recession and most people will not wait for the "official" declaration to stop or slow buying non-essential things.

Ac Man

And if this painted grill thing doesn't increase sales like you think it could, then what's your excuse gonna be? Don't let the opinions of people on this forum make you jump to conclusions, because we represent a small portion of Acura owners and potential buyers. Contrary to popular belief, there are many folks who actually like the TL, even without the painted grill, but have they gone out and bought one yet? NO! Now take a wild guess why they haven't bought one.

PetesTL

We ARE living in scary times. America IS in a recession. (Don't you watch CNN? or read the papers?). You must not live in the US if you think otherwise. I'm only saying this because to me, this is the MAIN reason why car sales in general (and not just the TL sales) are slow. That being said, I bought a new car because I needed it. Now, I could have spent thousands more and bought a BMW or Mercedes, but my budget (due to ECONOMIC reasons) didn't allow me to go over $40K and the new TL was a much better value to me.

TLDeac

Having recently visited just about every Lux dealer's showroom over the last 60 days, I can assure you that no models are flying over the curb, as they all claim very slow business (bmw, infiniti, lexus, acura, audi, cadillac).

Moreover, their reasons are that customers need 10-20% or more down on the vehicle, and a FICO of at least 710 to get reasonable terms. This is a direct effect of the current credit crisis we are in, as PetesTL has correctly alluded to many times.

I believe several of the new owners (myself included) had expiring leases that were the main impetus for getting another vehicle. For my transaction, I decided to purchase rather than lease, and was in a fortunate enough situation as to not need financing. I assure you, however, that they were nervous when they brought up financing before we closed, as they have seen many recent deals go up in smoke.

I can't speak to the west coast, but I highly doubt that a painted grill is the main concern for dealers in the southeast, or in many other areas of the country, and they would gladly eat $100-200 of time and materials if that was necessary to move vehicles in volume.

That said, I personally like the looks of the TL. It is certainly distinctive, and for the time being I guess will be a rare item on the roads

OStateBeaver

I was just at my Kendal Acura Dealer in Eugene, OR looking at the 08's they have on the lot. I asked the sales manager who I was dealing with on the 08's how the 09's are selling and he said they are selling well. He said a day earlier he sold an 09 with Tech for the sticker price of 39k.

PGSberg

TL Deac - I couldn't have said it better myself. I noticed that about a month before the 4G came out, the local Acura dealer had 50+ 3Gs that weren’t moving either. When I got on the mailing list, the 3Gs were discounted almost 7K which priced them below the new TSX that offered more for less $. Honda also offered 0% for 36mo and 2.9% for 60-72mo. I also saw 10K knocked off of the 08 MDX and RLs. I don't think it helped the MDX unless they received several more shipments. The RLs flew off the lot. I drove the G37, C350, BMW 3 and 5 series and the CTS. Stayed away from Lexus because of the limitations of the nav and phone while in motion - among other things. The other brands aren't moving either. With the market like it is now, and the discount on the MDX, I could have traded my 03 4Runner for a 08 MDX and only financed 17K but the MDX doesn't have the cargo capacity. Plus at 100k miles, the 4Runner is just broken in. As long as the economy is low I'll enjoy being one of the few 4Gs around. I have gotten several thumbs up from other drivers and have seen people slow down to get a look. No - not the same looks people gave the Pontiac Aztek!!

shooter

LOL ... of course people still give props to Acura ....

I agree with many ppl here that the economy is different than say a few years back ... so it's hard to draw comparison to the sales of 3G, for example ...

Enjoy your TL !

maverickinvestor

Having lived in LA for a period of time and seen for myself some of the outlandish mods they have there, I agree with you that people there are like a whole lot of 'ziners here: mod-happy car lovers!

But it still begs the question if the California dealers are not painting the grille as a result of customer complaints and are just being mod-happy, why did they decide to do these grille paintings on the 2009 TL, and not on say the TSX, or MDX, or any other cars in the Acura lineup?

maverickinvestor

TLDeac,

It's interesting that both you and Pete mention that the dealers in your area are not all that concerned with all the grille painting thing and yet dealers in the west coast sure seem to be more motivated in doing them.

I wonder if the differences in dealer reactions are a reflection of the differences in how the new TL is being received in different parts of the U.S.

Could the new TL be having a better go at it in middle America than say in California?

Along the same line of thought, looking through the 8 4g owners sign-ins, I was surpised to see most are located in middle America but not one hail from California!

California being Acura's biggest market, of all the states you would think someone would've signed in from CA!

It could be just the small sample size I suppose.

By the way, congratulations on your new car!

maverickinvestor

I'm not sure I understand your question...

But you're right about the need to be careful about extrapolating 'ziners reactions and actions as representative of the TL owners at large.

I am sure that the typical TL owners do not momentarily stare back at their cars after getting out or would talk at great lengths about the composition of bird droppings as I think I've read on this website.

But I think Acura still needs to be concerned that many of these diehard TL fans are expressing misgivings about replacing their present cars with the new TLs.

When a TL owner like KeithL, who we all probably can clearly see has some sort of a borderline addiction problem and is not representative of Acura owners at large, is expressing that he probably will not be buying into the 4G family, Acura should be concerned.

Heck that's probably what a loss of 5 4Gs sales for Acura right there if KeithL doesn't go seek some therapy soon!

Kcusaiwanu

ppl are waiting for fully loaded version with SH-AWD and 305 HP. Me too.

sebounet2005

I'm also waiting for the SH AWD, and for me the interior is far more important than the exterior. Because, in fact you spend a lot more time inside your car than outside.

Outside is for the others , for the neighbours etc...

PetesTL

The interior in both versions are virtually the same.

PetesTL

So you're saying once the AWD version comes out, there'll be a mad rush of people going out to buy the $43K car?....and in today's economy? (Acura predicts less than 25% of TL buyers will even choose the AWD version).

PetesTL

Acura didn't make the TL for "diehards."........they got the upcoming NSX for that. The TL is their "bread and butter" car.....as such it is made to appeal to as biggest group of people as possible......young, old, men, women. With the 4G, I believe Acura purposely designed this car to go more upscale and bigger to appeal to more older buyers, families and women.

kennyl

Hi everybody, does anybody know some exact figures so that we can crutch the numbers to see how the new 09TL's are selling? In my mind, I doubt the numbers are on par to what Acura has projected. The new design is awfully disgusting to all other TL's and for that matter, most Japanese cars. I wonder if their was any other intentions on having such a poor product so that other car companies can do better. Did that guy who's in charge of the new ***keen/dynamic look really have good intentions for the TL? How did he get hired anyway? Who their really made the decision for this bad selling design and who surrounded his decisions? Was it all the cast of 3G designers or was it a bunch of new gilligan's island people. I smell a big rat, if you ask me. Anyhow, what do I know. I'm just a family doctor that's very disappointed in the new design. I was never disappointed with any of the other previous TL designs. There needs to be some major firing, reconcillation and improvement for continued success. Don't get angry of the truth, the truth is REALITY!Just my two cents.

CLTypeSixspeed

I was at the dealership the other day getting the fluids topped off etc in my Cl. I asked the dealer there, whos a pretty good guy, not full of crap like some of the dealers ive dealt with in the past, how the new Tl's were selling. He said that he has a lot of people coming in a checking them out, lots of them accord and tl owners. He says they arent concerned with the appearance (lots of the test drivers thought it looked nice enough but the drive really backs it up). He said that it was simply a question of why buy a 2wd car when a ShAWD car will be out shortly. He thinks people will pay the difference. I guess we will see.