btomcik

I think I’m having buyer’s remorse with my 4g TL. I shopped it along with the Audi A4, S4, and BMW 335xi. I narrowed it down to between the TL and the 335xi and obviously I chose the TL. It was really close though between the TL and 335xi.

I picked the TL SH-AWD because it was a few grand less than the 335xi, had a little bit bigger back seat and seemed to be a better value, ie, overall it had more stuff for the money.

I’ve had the TL now for 6 months and there are several things that I just don’t like. I have major comfort issues with the headrests sticking out too far. The soreness and stiffness of my neck and upper shoulder muscles were so bad I bought a pair of headrests from a 2004 TSX off eBay and use those now. I’m still really pissed that I paid $40k only to have to swap out headrests, and the stiching on the TSX headrests of course don't match the rest of the seats.

Next thing is the trunk – it isn’t flat which I didn’t think was a problem until I went on an overnight trip two weekends ago and had a bitch of a time shimmying a large suitcase in the trunk with the non-flat floor. It was a major pain in the ass.

This winter the heated steering wheel would really have been useful. I mean there were some mornings where the steering wheel was really f’in cold and that feature would have been nice.

Lastly, the vehicle I dumped for my TL was a 2006 Dodge Ram quad cab 4x4 with the Hemi. I hated the maintenance costs, especially due to the 4x4. I got the SH-AWD due to the amount of snow we get here in Cleveland, but now I’m going to have differential maintenance costs just like before! Should have gotton a 2WD vehicle.

No one conned me into getting the TL or twisted my arm or forced me or whatever. It’s all on me. I just feel like I should have gotton a 335i. I don’t know if I’m going to keep the TL or trade it in for a BMW lease or buy. If I get rid of the TL my wife will probably try to chop my balls off.

NJ SHAWD

I would say if it's bad enough for you to blindly write about it on the internet, it's time to trade it in?

grymg

If the shoe doesn't fit. . .

but seriously if you have the gripe you should take the hit and trade it in. we spend a lot of times in our cars, and it will give you the peace of mind if you go with the beemer

btomcik

Yeah maybe you guys are right.

btomcik

Plus I put on a month ago the splash guards and the trunk hooks. Great - there's another $100 I dished out. Shit...

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

Well, rest assured on a few things

1) BMW 335xi would have been a lot more $$, comparably loaded

2) No need for Differential Maintence on this car for AT LEAST 25K Miles... I plan on doing mine at about 40K

3) TL Fuel efficiency is better. $$ saved

4) TL Interior is FAR superior

5) TL is more unique... EVERYBODY has a 3 series

6) SH-AWD is a more "intelligent" system

Unfortunately

1) 335xi is much faster

2) 335xi handles a little better on dry road...

3) 335xi torque is amazing

4) 335xi rides smoother

NJ SHAWD

If you're worried about the $100, maybe you should hold on to it for about 5 years or so.

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

Really? I'm under 25k and I definitely had the rear diff fluid changed, I think I had mine done around 15,000 miles? I mean preventative maintenance is much less than the service on a Dodge Ram. I myself had a 1500 Quad Cab 4x4 Hemi, and that thing takes double the fluids. Changing the spark plugs, you actually have to buy 16 plugs, the wires cost a grip, and all the special MOPAR fluids that needed to be used was annoying. Not to mention every time you serviced the rear diff you had to buy sealant for the case cover. Comparing the costs of the two, the Acura is far less.

For an oil change, rear diff fluid change, full inspection, NYS inspection, rotate tires, and a car wash, I was out the door at around $120.

winstrolvtec

Sorry to hear that. I itch for a new car just about every year so while the situation is a little different sometimes the rationale and thought process can be similar. The thing you have to consider is that even though you said those things wouldn't likely bother you in the TL you got it and now they do. You have to really consider the potential downsides of the 3 series and make sure that 6 months later those things aren't going to bother you as well.

I want to point some of the common ones. Similalry equipped there is a large cost difference. For that monthly payment more you can almost get another car. Of course if you are willing to sacrifice it doesn't necessarily have to cost more.

The size factor can play a part later on. I know you can test drive and feel fine but six months later and it can be uncomfortably small or cramped. You may have a flatter trunk in the 3 but the cargo is smaller and you will need to dish out another $500-$600 more for the option of split fold but at least it has that option.

There are a number fuel pump and reliability concerns. Less resale and crash test safety. No more active torque vectoring. On the plus side, pretty much all that you mentioned, free maintenance, 6AT, a bit more refinement, BMW road feel and dynamics, and availability of a few features and options not offered in the TL but that goes the other way too like the rear view camera for example.

Most importantly, wait until it makes financial sense so you have a better chance of not losing your balls.

graphicguy

Just as a reference point, I actually looked at a BMW 335ix when things went sideways on my previous TL. I can say I would have definitely missed the room and generally better interior of the TL. Plus, the cost differential wasn't even close to a "few" thousand. It was more like $12,000+, for generally the same equipment levels.

Plus, the seats in the BMW weren't nearly as comfortable as the ones in the TL.

All that said, if the size of the BMW doesn't bother you, it is a very nice car.

jasonwdp10

I looked at the 335 coupe+sedan before buying the TL, and to get it comparably equipped it would cost $51k.. i got my SHAWD for $41k and then the Base for $37k. I don't care about free maintenance because the long term (over 5 years) costs would be cheaper.

However, I might just want to sell early if the mid-cycle refresh TL is a significant upgrade (i mean advanced pkg with: panoramic moonroof, adjustable suspension, ventilated seats, 6 speed auto, side assist, wood trim, fixed grill&exterior styling), or there's a new acura that's appealing in a few years, or one of the other luxury brands finally makes something affordable. Otherwise i can stick with the TL and it's relatively low maintenance costs.

If you really hate it though, just trade it in for whatever makes you happy.

Personally, Acura ZDX, Audi A5/S5 or MB E550 coupe aside (currently too expensive for me). There's nothing i really "want" at the moment. The TL was bought as an "in-between" car. When i say that i mean, a huge significant upgrade from my 2006 civic in pretty much every way (except FE). But not as good or appealing as what i really wanted.

A lot of people here seriously looked into cars like the S4 and 335x, I think if they had more time to save, they would have bought those. I don't think the TL was on the top of everyones list prior to buying. Most people "settled" with the TL mainly due to pricing and i think they won't be as happy if they keep the TL in the long run.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

If it's bad enough then you ought to trade it in. Not every car is for everyone (duh). I mean you'll take a hit but you gotta do what you gotta do.

Just be aware that a BMW or Audi will not only cost much more initially but be much more expensive in the long run. They're better cars but they know it, LOL.

I'd say if you want a vehicle as roomy as the TL you have options. The SHO is a great car with a huge trunk. The 300/Charger will be new in the fall and those might be to your liking.

Otherwise (and my recommendation), wait for the 2012 3-Series. The 335i should be awesome!

Sorry to hear about your disappointment.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

Or wait for this!

http://repositorio.myautomovil.com/u...-2011_th_3.jpg

MyT6MT

btomcik, I have seen a few posts from you I think about the headrests but I just don't get it. When you are sitting normally in the seat does the headrest touch your head? Mine are not close enough. I wish they were closer or adjustable like in my 3G. You must have a very big head.

btomcik

I see your point...

graphicguy

I thought about that after I read it. Truthfully, I don't think my head has ever even touched the headrest, and hope it doesn't (that would mean I was in an accident).

I'm trying to think of how a headrest would interfere with my head, unless I was sitting in an unusual position.

I do know it took me about a week to get the seat exactly where I wanted. But, that had nothing to do with the headrest (unless I had the rake of the seat back way too reclined, which isn't very safe, either).

NJ SHAWD

I'm not trying to be a smart @$$, but you're going to get crushed trading it in now. So if $100 bothers you, then you should really sort out the true reasons why you want to get out of it. I also don't understand the headrest issue. If you adjust it high or low enough, it should be out of your way?

btomcik

Here's the original thread on the headrests:
https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-2009-2014-123/headrest-issues-765816/

Some people have comfort issues like me, others not. It varies from driver to driver.

I am disappointed with those things I mentioned about the car and at least at this point the grass seems greener and I really do wonder if I'd be happier in a BMW. But there are things I do like about the car as well, so who knows.

btomcik

No you're not a smart-ass. I wish I knew I'd feel the way I do today when I bought the splash guards and the trunk hook. I hate pissing away money.

The only thing going for me is that I've paid way ahead on the car over the last six months so that's my only recourse right now if I decide to trade it in.

jspagna1

I have to say all I have heard about the MB & BMW's are their porr reliability ratings. The other thing are the maintenance costs of both vehicles.
I was invited to an area Infiniti dealer a year or so back and I had a conversation with a guy there who owned a MB 300 Series and an Infiniti. All he would say is how many times the MB is in the shop and the Infiniti was so reliable. Enough said?

jasonwdp10

Have you owned benz before? How were your personal experiences with benz?

My gf had a 2004 kompressor that was 100% problem free with regular maintenance, then she got a 2008 Audi A5 and that has also been 100% problem free with regular maintenance.. so enough said as well?

JM2010 SH-AWD

I did some work with a fellow whose dealership sold BMW, MB, Audi and Porsche. He was lamenting the fact of increased competition from Lexus, Acura, Infiniti. When I asked why he did not carry those brands, he told me there was too little profit in the "back end" of the shop, meaning the Japanese brands didn't break enough to make the service department a big money-maker. On the other hand, he particularly loved the MB, BMW and Audi brands, because in his words, "they come in for repairs all the time."

Auto reliability is about placing bets. Every brand will produce a loser now and then. But your chances of drawing a trouble-free experience is just much higher from the Japanese brands, especially Honda/Acura and Toyota/Lexus (notwithstanding the latter's current rash of recalls). There's not an anecdote in the world that will trump this fact.

jspagna1

No I've never owned one because I don't want to own one. I do have enough experience with relatives who have owned and do own MB's & BMW's. Jaguars are also pieces of crap.
Just saying when it's time to fix these cars, you can expect a big bill $$$$$$$$$$$$

1986 190E - Mother
1986 300E - Cousin
1998 740i - Brother-in-law
2002 E320 - Cousin
2006 C280(4Matic) - Brother-in-law

jspagna1

^^^^^^^^^
Totally agree!

D4V1D.TL

The way I see this - you do not know what you do not know. Who's to say that you would have been 100% happy with the 335 - unless you had a 335 before.

I would think that finding things you do not like about the TL does not equate to no issues with the 335.

I would suggest, you find the good about the TL first and work with what you do not like.

Headrest, could it be a matter of seat back adjustment in combination with headrest?

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

The poor reliability of BMW and Mercedes is grossly overstated. I know TONS of people that own either (or both) and they are no less reliable than Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti models. In fact, Infiniti and Acura aren't as iron clad as they used to be anyway. Plenty of models having little electrical issues here and there (windows not wanting to roll up, key fob problems, sunroofs won't close, etc).

So while I'd still put my money on the Japanese over the Germans, I think the "fear" of owning German is just insane, primarily if it's under warranty.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

Oh but yes. Jaguar is unbelievable. Run, don't walk, away from their showroom.

graphicguy

bt....were you able to take the head restraints out and turn them around as was suggested in the thread you referenced?

graphicguy

I'm guessing BMW rewards their dealers handsomely for doing warranty and maintenance work for them. That's partially where the price differential comes from.....supposed free maintenance. The somebody that's paying for that is the customer.

I know whenever I talk to Benz, BMW, Audi, even Infiniti dealership service personnel, even they admit that their maintenance and non-warranty charges are high.

smarty666

The problem with the Germans is when the warranty is over, not while its going. It continues to be a thorn in their sides. Myself and several family members have had problems with long-term reliability with German makes so its the opposite of your friends but everyone has different experiences. I still put my money on Acura, Lexus, and Infiniti for long-term reliability and resale over any BMW, MB, or Audi!

I'm really starting to like Audi though, if just their long term reliability could improve better I might take the risk!

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

I brought all of this German car talk up to a fairly good friend who owns a 2007 Lexus IS. Her exact words, "The Japanese aren't all they're cracked up to be."

I'd still put my money on them too, but I wouldn't discount anyone other than Audi. And granted that'd probably odd with my wife having a 2009 A4 but you know....she wanted it. ROFL

kingofire

Btomcik, just so you have a reference, I just traded my 2009 TL AWD/Tech with 4200 miles for a 2010 BMW 535ix and I got $31,000 for it. KBB value for the TL was $33,500. Seems like no-one uses KBB anymore but black book value probably because they low ball you.

I didn't get rid of the TL due to buyers remorse but I couldn't resist getting close to $12k off a BMW MSRP'd at $66,xxx. They have a $6000 rebate for all 535i's and $5000 rebate for all 528i's which supposedly expire April 30th but my instincts tell me it will be extended into May.

smarty666

Agreed, I feel the same way about the Germans, especially BMW and MB who make you pay for every little damn luxury feature that either comes standard or in much cheaper option packages in everyone else. The only German manufacture that has caught my eye both inside and outside is Audi. Maybe its because of those white LED DRLs that look like they are staring at you when they are oncoming that hypnotized me but their vehicles look unique and their interiors are gorgeous! I love the A4 and Q5!

When I look for a new car in a few years, its most likely going to come down to Acura (depending on how things go), Infiniti, and Audi.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

That's true but it really isn't that bad. You'd only pay a little bit more for a loaded A6 3.0 compared to a GS or RL and you'd pay more for an M37! Just an example. Audi is usually the best about this though.

Our 09 A4 has everything and came out to about $45,500 if I recall correctly. It was one of the few V-6s. But we bought it as an end of the year blowout so even though it only had six miles on it we got about $5,000 off plus a $500 credit from the dealer for being a return customer (got to show me some Audi love!). So before taxes and licensing and whatnot it was about $40,000. I'd have to pay $5000 more just to get a 2010 and brag it's the new model year....stupid when there were no changes other than no V-6 model, haha.

And in case you happen to be wondering, no issues yet but it's still shy of 20,000 miles. Our A6 2.8 was a gem though. It had an issue with the driver's seat belt early on but literally nothing else went wrong.

Pseudomaniac

iTrader: (1)

You'd be miffed if that 50k bimmer spent 1/4 of your ownership time in a BMW garage getting fixed / corrected / updated: And it would.

Stick with the TL.

docboy

Life is way too short.

If you truly want the 335i/xi, go for it. Yes you loose $$, but as long as you can pay in cash, are saving for retirement, are paying your mortgage on time, no credit card bills, why not?

I traded in a 2009 Lexus IS 250 AWD at 4000 miles...Absolutely hated that car. Became so dam uncomfortable I couldn't drive it without pain; the most uncomfortable car ever. Dam AWD hump caused for my right leg/knee/hip to hurt; couldn't walk without my right leg hurting or not popping. Add to that a useless nav, and poor visibility. When it was recalled for the infamous floor mats, I had enough. Hence my 2010 TL 6MT. I lost $$, but I got what I finally wanted; had I waited patiently enough for the 6MT to come out, I might have avoided the disastrous Lexus experience.

Point is, only you can decide if it you hate the TL enough to trade it in. If you hate the TL enough (which only you can tell over time) and still want the 335, do the trade or lease. You will always find yourself wondering, which is not a good feeling to carry.

Disclaimer: Many of us, including I, looked at the 335i/xi, A4, S4. I will admit the HPFP issues with the 335 and Audi's infamous hx of reliability/electrical issues kept me away. IF one day the 335 HPFP issues are fixed, and Audi's reliability improves to a consistent basis, I won't hesitate to go German. But until then, I will stick with Honda/Acura.

ll_22

Did you test drive the cars?

335 is a nice and popular car. Let us know how it compares when/if you get it, I'll be very curious to hear your thoughts.

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

Sorry.

ductman

My Audi Q5 was repurchased due to transmission issues, the price for their maintenance is ridiculous, try 1000 for front or rear brake pads as rotors have to be replaced, I have never seen so many customers with check engine lights at service, I would hate to see any after warranty costs, to me it is not the fact the car is under warranty but
how many times you have to take it to the dealership, that fact alone is annoying, no vehicle is trouble free but you are more likely to receive a trouble free Acura verse a trouble free Audi.

btomcik

Yes I turned it around but it looked so damn stupid and it just pissed me off every time I looked at it. Plus if I were rear-ended, my head would go pretty far back before it hit the restraint. That's when I then got the used 2004 TSX headrests, which improved the situation, but I still have some shoulder/neck soreness after driving for 30-45 minutes.

I get pissed everytime I get in the car and see the headrests because it reminds me that I spent $40k on a luxury car only to have had major comfort issues to the point where I had to either take out the headrests completely (safety issue), turn the headrests around (looked assinine and still a safety issue), or buy some used headrests from a previous model year (leather and stiching don't match, not that I expected it too totally but now I'm just disappointed with the whole situation.)