Ok, so here's my story. This is my first post here on Acurazine but I have been floating around these threads since I got my car in 2010. I have a 2010 Acura TL SH-AWD which I bought brand new and it has been a great experience until recently. When I reached around 10,000 miles or so, i noticed that my steering wheel was off a tad bit to the right even though the car was driving straight and all. No pulling or movement of the steering wheel even over bumps on the road. I took it to Acura to get an alignment done around 13xxx miles, which I had to pay for, and got the problem remedied. Later around 19xxx miles the problem resurfaced (steering wheel of to the right) and when I would drive over bumps on the road the passenger rear side feels like it shifts to the left. The driver rear side does not have that feeling over bumps or manholes. When I would take left curves it felt like the car was literally sliding sideways. I took it back to Acura where they good-willed an alignment, since that's what fixed the problem before, but this time the problem did not go away. 6-7 ALIGNMENTS LATER, the problem was still there but they seemed to have suppressed the sliding sideways feeling somewhat; I still feel it on the highway. The dealership, after all these alignments, later tells me that they are going to swap the left tires to the right and vice-versa to see if its a tire problem. Worst. Thing. Ever. I would hear the tires loudly on the highway, and the car felt very unsafe to drive. But the steering wheel was straight . Now I'm thinking it is in fact a tire problem, but still took it back to Acura so they could put the tires back to normal because the reversed tires was very unsafe. The tires are now back to normal and to my surprise the steering wheel is still straight , so I know that just swapping the tires was the only work that they did meaning they lied to me. You would think I should be happy since the S-W is straight and all, but that shifting in the back is still there AND the wheel is only straight on flat streets because on the highway it goes off to the left or right and pulls to the left on the highway. I can not explain to you the frustration that I am feeling at this point. I decide to call Acura directly and see if they can help me. They sent me to another dealership; we took a road test with the service manager and he stated the car felt "normal". WTH would he know, he's not a damn technician!!! Now both dealerships gave me loaners; a brand new TSX, a used TSX, and an RDX. Neither car had any characteristics my car currently has. I even went to the dealership and drove a used TL, same year as mine, and drove exactly how my car USED to drive . I called Acura HQ back and they said there's nothing they could do since their dealerships don't see any problems with my car. I told them if that's the case I'm going to take matters into my own hands and contact consumer affairs! All she said was, "I'll document that". Whatever. I know I'm not going crazy and I know there is something seriously wrong with my car. It still has the problem and feels unsafe on the highway, which is what most of what my driving consists of. I don't even enjoy driving the car and have been taking my girlfriends car to work from the frustration I get of driving my car. I need your opinion guys, I really don't know what to do . Ill post pictures of the rear of the car later and you guys are probably thinking I hit something, but the suspension is in tact with no bent parts at all! This comes from Acura and 2 different shop that I took it too so they can see if there was anything bent. If you need more info let me know and I'll tell you to the best of my knowledge.

 

the service manager didnt feel the car shifting to the left when he test drove it?

you should have someone else like a friend test drive your car and then test drive a used TL.. sometimes you need a second opinion..

 

The service manager said everything felt normal which is bs because I even felt the rear shifting in the passenger seat and my friend did drive the car since he has a 2012 version of my car. He even noticed the pulling and weird movements from the steering wheel and the shifting in the rear. I also test drove a used TL same year as mine, 2010, and that car felt completely different compared to mine. No pulling and even on slanted roads while driving straight the steering wheel was straight. So I know that it's not something common in these cars, its rather just something with MY car.

 

I know nothing about mechanical engineering, and in particular, have only the faintest grasp of how AWD works, but could this be a fault in the AWD system, sending power to the back wheels that isn't warranted?

Again, I freely admit I know nothing. I only ask such a stupid question because if they've re-aligned, and the problem is still there, maybe they need to look to other causes.

 

tires? tire pressure (manually checked)? tread wear (weird patterns)? those would be the first things that come to mind before i head up the chain of more expensive on the car. certainly it is weird that the steering wheel would seemingly spontaneously straighten then be set slightly to the Rt. or vice versa.

 

Perhaps ask the dealer to swap the 4 wheels/tires off the used car to confirm the wheel/tire isssue as a good faith gesture.

Raising the lemon flag (which would NOT apply in this situation since the dealer(s) are not seeing the issue) is only going to cause argument and delay.

Work with the dealer to see if you can use some shared common sense to eliminate the problem.

I know whenever people have issues where they feel the car pulling, or jarring, or an unbalanced wheel, phantom feelings can co-inside for a very long time, getting a impartial 3rd party to help you here isn't the worst idea as suggested above.

 

Its definitely not a tire problem, all the tires look fine no bumps and no wear is noticed on the tires but let me show you what i mean with the rear tires.

 

 

How do I post images?

 

Fixed it for you.

 

 

^^^^^^
There you go now look at the right tire compared to the left. It's pretty out and Im pretty sure thats what causing all these problems. The dealership is trying to fix everything else to compensate for the real problem, which is that right rear tire. I don't know if it's an axel or frame issue because the suspension is intact and not bent at all.

 

Thanks Ken!

 

Here's some more pic's.

 

well tires can look ok and wear ok and still cause a pull.I would try what gibjer said about getting them to take the wheels and tires right off another car and drive yours to see if it feels different.You said an aftermarket shop did an alignment also not the dealership?They should be able to see if anything is out of spec in the rear then.Did you ask for a readout before they tried to adjust anything?Did you show these pics to the dealership?Can you compare these rear pics to another car on there lot?Good luck sorry your having problems with your car

 

Looks like a significant alignment issue, particularly the "toe", which can mean frame or component issues if they could not align it properly after several attempts. I suspect it's what giving the right wheel a more outward appearance from the back. The front of the wheel (closer to the rear 1/4 panel and rear passenger door) will look angled inwards if this is the case.

 

Just from these pics alone the techs should know theres something wrong. Have you brought this up point up with them? Might be something else thats making it stick out that an alignment wouldn't be able to fix

 

If its not a camera angle issue its out quite a bit. The 3 blind mice should be able to see it. Open a case with Acura.

 

Where are your alignment print outs ? If there is an issue with your cars tracking, alignment angles with tell you everything, caster camber toe, cross toe cross camber ... If all the angles are in spec your problem is else where....

As for lemon law I don't see that happening. For a lemon law to pass the dealer has to verify the complaint ... And have 3 repairs unsuccessful , alignments are p.m. And are recommended every 1 year / 12k miles

 

That's what it looks like to me as well. Acura can still align the car but that right tire is still popping out and theres more space in the wheel well on the right side . I don't know what to do if Acura is not cooperating with me.

 

The techs at Acura say that shouldn't matter and that they can't find the problem, but the techs in the other shops DO in fact see that the tire is out and by a lot one said.

 

I have the prints out with me, at least the ones they decided to give me, and everything seems in the green. I can upload them up later so you can see them but as you said, I think the problem is not an alignment but either a bad suspension part that they can't tell is bad or somethings up with the frame.

 

Toe is way out of keel there. Anyone checked/replaced the ball joints?

 

Measure the width of your car from tire to tire, then measure the edge of the tire to the center(half the width) see what the difference is , or bring the car some where else to get another alignment reading.... see if that dealer is giving you fake print outs....

 

Fake print outs, really? Maybe they put different size tires on too??

 

I did check my TL and the tires are inside the fender. I would check the width of the tires. Or put the car on a rack and remove the rear tires and take some measurements. There's got to be something thats off.

 

As inconvenient as it might be, have you considered going to a different Acura dealership? You're in NJ so there must be another one (or some) within an hour's drive. I would imagine all service depts have their strengths and weaknesses. Maybe you'll get lucky with a different one.

 

Wouldn't be a shock to me if they did give a bogus print out for a "problem customer" I would Definately get a second alignment from another dealer, it's gonna cost you but at least you'll know if you're being d*cked around, tell the other dealer what's going on, they love throwing other dealers under the bus to win you over

 

Well Acura sent me to another dealership's service department but they blew me off saying they don't see anything either. I'm pretty sure they are going to work with corporate and just deny that there's anything wrong with the car. Im going to have to go to one that's a little further away but maybe I'll get lucky and see what printouts they give me.

 

Yeah you may have a valid point because in one of the print outs my camber was -2.3 I believe, then after I went for another alignment it was back to -1.7 so I don't know what they are doing but to my understanding the camber is not adjustable.

 

Ball joints.

 

Looks to me like the toe is too far in causing that tire to stick out, upload the last print out I'd like to see the angles

 

Hey Pseudomaniac, I'll have them checked out when I go to the other Acura dealership later on this week. Do you think that could be the problem?

 

I sure will once I get home and am able to scan it. But the toe seems dead on, unless they are giving me print outs of another TL and not mine

 

I doubt a bad ball joint would cause your issue, ball joints usually have squeeking/clunking noises associated with them, and don't usaully cause a sway or swerve unless the ball joint completely blows out. Even if a bad ball joint was the case, it wouldn't explain the tire sticking out that far without the wheel practically falling off. If your vehicle isn't dog tracking then I would lead to a out of adjustment alignment angle. A good way to check for dog tracking is to wet all four tires , then drive straight over dry pavement and see if the tires leave more than 2 trails . But Definately upload those angles and let's see what's going on