Caybren Marez

Hello, I have a 2009 Tl 3.7L with approx 179K miles. I took it into Acura for the oil consumption test. My first result burned over a quart, and the last two were all over the place on the results. Acuras response to the results were that they were normal for the year and milage. Looking back I should have checked if they overfilled when they were doing the last two tests. Has anyone ever taken it back for a retest? I know i'll have to pay for the oil change again, but wasn't sure if it was even an option once Acura has had their say.

Thanks!

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

I don't know the specifics of the oil consumption / engine replacement issue on the 3.7L. I have the 3.5 FWD so I haven't had to address it. However, if they treat it on a case-by-case basis, I can see why they'd deny it. It's a 10 year old car pushing 200K miles. Even with oil change receipts, oil consumption for that many miles could be considered normal.

You could ask them if there'd be any any chance of Acura reconsidering if you were to have them change the oil then monitor again. But most of the engine replacement/rebuilds I've seen on here were with TL's with <100K miles.

dopeboy1

The letter said that for a 6 month period acura would fix all 3.7 that have excessive oil consumption regardless of age or mileage. So if you started the test in that window then how old it is or how many miles it has shouldn't be relevant. I'm afraid it either burnt enough oil to qualify or it didn't.

Doubt they will let you have another go at it. You should have ensured it burnt a lot, especially more and more over time.

Kingcredible

I got talking to a tech in my local Acura dealer last month. I gave him enough compliments and praises that he finally let out some info on this oil consumption issue. He said that they will take all 4th gen TLs between 60K and 125K according to Honda (Acura). He also let out that the “unofficial” limit for mileage is 150K for the original owners. The latter may be on a dealer by dealer basis. They first perform an oil consumption test and if it loses over 1 quart of oil every 1k miles you will qualify. If they proceed with the service, the piston rings on the compression side will be replaced. A big job indeed.

Last advice he shared with me was to keep all service receipts! From the moment the oil consumption is verified as excessive Acura will be on a one track mission to deny any warranty or goodwill claim. Any gap or lack of service/maintenance history will be scrutinized and used to bat away anyone who tries to get their compression rings replaced. The technician also warned that they often come back for the same issue after getting new piston rings. He has seen many come in up to 3 times to get new rings!

I’m one of the lucky ones whose TL does not burn oil. I’m not trying to discourage you or be negative. I’m just sharing what I learned from the people who work on these cars every day. If I were on your shoes, I’d fight to get this warranty work performed even with 200K!!

Rowaxe

I just missed out on the recall date but I don't trust the dealer mechanics to do the repair work on my car anyway.

I've been a home garage mechanic for 25 years. After reading about a hundred different forum posts on this issue due to my recent purchase of a new (used) 2011 MDX with oil consumption, I'd recommend high quality full synthetic oil at every change. The irregular sizes of standard oil molecules can cause an potential leak of oil through the rings that gets worse as the oil thins out over time. The molecules of synthetic are more consistently sized and less get through on average. Synthetic is more expensive to do and some have suggested that it is cheaper to top up the oil more often with basic oil. The major issue there is carbon build up in the combustion chamber. On a cheap car, I'd normally run seafoam through the gas once every 3-6 months months to clean the carbon out (not great on sensors) but the compression is so finely tuned for these cars that I'm concerned I'd damage the rings even more. BG 44K is much safer for this car. In addition, many drivers refuse to use the higher octane fuel in this car. This adds more potential to not have a clean burn in the combustion chamber and you will hear engine knocking under demand. Unfortunately the 93 octane may have enough additives to leave chemical residue anyway so clean your fuel system every year or two as regular maintenance.

Just my $.02

TLbullet

I have never noticed any consumption on mine but took the test twice. Passing both times.
Side note which i did not know—the top mark on the dipstick to the bottom mark represent one quart. I had no effing clue, i thought it was like a gas gauge..low meant nearly no oil! 😳

aphmd

I don't trust the dealer doing the oil test. You don't know the weight of the oil they will use to test your car.

mrclemson

My 2010 TL @125K doesn't consume a single drop of oil. I only use #93 gas, and do all the oil changes myself with Pennzoil Ultra + Mobil 1 oil filter. I am even on the original brakes.

Alvaro1230

i recently got a 2012 acura tl awd in october and i’ve noticed it’s burning a lot of oil, i’m at 87k so far got the car at 84k do you think acura would still cover it in 2021?

Bonz

They did a blanket class action settlement a while back, I think the statute of limitations per se has run out on that. But worth asking, look forward to responses.

WDPanda

I did notice the oil minder is much slower on the 4g than 3g.
My oil life would indicate 70% still after driving 6000km and idling a bunch. Where as my TL S would be a bit more faster at recommending an oil change. I change the oil around 50% (7-9000km) on the MID now with synthetic and the oil still comes out fairly dirty with aggressive driving.

Kingcredible

@Alvaro1230 Don't hold your breath. My TL started consuming oil and they denied me the service claim last year (2019). Just top off with oil when it is low and be done with it

dregsfan

Nope. To qualify, the car has to be less than 8 years from when it was first sold, and less then 125k miles. So while mileage would qualify, the time does not.

efbeenie

I brought my 2012 SH-AWD to the local Acura dealership to have the test done last year. What a waste of my time. I explained to them on the phone that the car is a 2012 and the idiots seemed unaware of the what year it was last year. They asked for my vin#, then said don't worry we don't need it and to just bring the car in. I know the time frame/ mileage limits that Acura put on their fix for the issue. When I brought the car in 1st thing in the morning, I was told that Acura will do nothing for the car for this known potential problem, because of the manufacture date. Mind you I bought the car with 29,741 miles on it Nov. 2020. I called Acura corporate to plead my case. I had the most condescending dbag call me back and pretty much try to pick an argument with me. He kept calling it a limited time warranty, and he kept putting words in my mouth. Once he started really pushing my buttons saying things like, "why would you think there would be a warranty at that point on a 8.5 year old car"(laughing at me while saying it). I took the gloves off after trying to be polite. I told him he must not know what a warranty is. I explained a warranty is a service you buy to cover costs of things going bad, not something that covers repairs needed for an incompetent engineering division and what they released to the public. This guy from corporates job I am pretty sure was to incite me and get me to get me real upset with him. I love the car, but FUCK Acura!

dzionny_dzionassi

What is your current mileage?

JM2010 SH-AWD

Sorry to hear about your experience. Mine was completely the opposite, and as easy as pie. I think the biggest factor in getting these types of things to go well starts with your dealer. I have used my local dealer for sales/service for many years, and they have always treated me very well, especially on the oil consumption warranty. Only issue -- which was out of their control -- was waiting for the replacement parts to arrive. Work was done expertly and quickly, and they gave me a brand new RDX Advance to drive for the short time my car was in their shop.

Jim2301

JM2010 - Excellent logic and write-up. Over the years I've found that building a good relationship with the dealership is the best way to get a fair hearing when things go wrong. We may not always get our desired outcome, but at least we usually get a fair shake. Since we only are getting Efbeenie's side of the discussion (clearly with large dose of frustration) it's hard to tell if he was/wasn't treated fairly. One thing that I DO KNOW is that you have had good luck with your approach. Just my two cents worth.

dopeboy1

I think the biggest factor in getting these types of things to go well is applying within the time/milage frame set out in the warranty extension.

efbeenie

It just hit 37,000 in the last week or two. The car literally had less than 30,000 miles when I learned of this issue only after buying the car. It had less than 30,000 miles on it when I tried to get the local dealership to do the consumption test. Is should be a recall , not Acura's BS calling it a warranty to fix their incompetence.

efbeenie

Unless you buy the car used not being aware of the issue and their "time frame" for fixing the problem has already expired. This is not an abused car. It is one of the cleanest cars inside and out. I was amazed when I finally got it on a lift and the under carriage looked spotless.

efbeenie

You want the dealerships side of the story? Call them up. Oh wait, the dealership was sold and moved one town over since my less than pleasant experience. Corporate is what pissed me off way more than the dealership. My guess is the people in the dealership all knew their jobs were about to end.

BROlando

Have you thought about taking to a different dealer?

What is the written procedure in this case? I think Acura stretched out the timeframe for getting this repair. Can you print that out and take it with you?

Did you pass or fail the oil consumption test? I think you need to fail it.

How much oil does your car burn?

If the time frame has expired, then what do you want them to do? All products have defects. And Acura admitted it and set a time frame for people to bring their cars in for repair. Whomever owned the car before you just never did it....

Now the time has passed....

dzionny_dzionassi

It should not burn any oil at this mileage.

BROlando

Its also a 2012 or something.

What if it was idled more than it was driven? Idling a lot and/or warming up your car in winter or doing short trips can cause oil burning issues at low mileage on a modern car.

Not driving it and leaving old oil in there can also cause it.

Its not accurate to say it shouldn't burn oil at that mileage. It depends on how its been treated.

Its not clear what the issue is in this case though. Idk if this dude's car even burns excess oil. Is he just trying to get them to rebuild it preemptively or....because it burned a drop of oil one time...or...??? idk.

he's frustrated...but not sure why

I think he's just trying to get them to do a consumption test because he's worried about oil burning.

​​​​​​​

dzionny_dzionassi

No, it should not burn oil at this mileage. Unless it was never changed or neglected.
Idle have nothing to do with it. There is much less blowby through low tension compression rings and much less lubrication at idle.
Actually I would be much more happier to own low mileage j37 than the one that was already taken apart. There are all kind ways to deal with oil consumption.

BROlando

I disagree about your assessment that idling excessively doesn't cause the engine to start burning oil. It definitely does.

I didn't say idling burns oil. I said excessive idling and infrequent oil changes or short trips CAUSES consumption. Carbon builds on the rings. Eventually the rings don't seal.

I do agree that I'd rather have a low mileage factory assembled engine that DOESNT burn oil, rather than a high mile rebuild. Why would anyone disagree with that? IDK what the point here is...


However, the guy's intention or request is not clear. Which probably made it difficult for the dealer and the manufacturer to decipher the request.

He doesn't state whether his car burns oil or not. He wants an oil consumption test done.

So...why even discuss whether or not it should burn oil?

Why is he so worried about it? Its like he wants a rebuild done because he read about an issue.

I wouldn't recommend letting someone rebuild a factory assembled engine unless it NEEDS it.

To my knowledge, they don't put an improved ring in there to fix it, do they? they just use new oil rings of the same type. I could be wrong on this though.

dopeboy1

aparently they are new and improved

dzionny_dzionassi

I know it have new part number.... I had little time to compare old VS new and old one was all in carbon, but they looked identical.

efbeenie

Dude, your are making a whole lot of assumptions. I can start making assumptions about your reply.

Yes the dealership knew I wanted the oil consumption test done. WTH would I want an oil consumption test if it doesn't burn oil?????

You're right, my mistake. Why in the world would I be worried about a low mileage TL that is burning oil. God I am so embarrassed. Thank god for your reply. I feel so much better with all your expertise behind me. Yeah, I can be a dick too!

BROlando

Woah, easy there little fella. No need to get upset.

I was just asking questions...don't lose any more oil over this frustrating situation that you and I have going on.

You still haven't mentioned how much oil your car is burning.

Maybe you're not getting help because of how easily you get upset and how few details you provide? But I'm just assuming.

csmeance

Lets keep it calm guys...

FYI BR has a lot of engineering experience so you are not going to win a google battle search against his findings.

BR is right that excessive idling can cause issues with oil consumption. I ran through a quart of oil regularly in my 760 when I'd have to let it idle for 30-40 minutes a day with accessories (a/c or heat) vs when driven normally. Ended up getting a walnut blasting on intake valves thinking it was a carbon buildup issue so had it done and that did improve idle but did nothing for oil consumption.

dzionny_dzionassi

Well, you cannot compare BMW oil consumption problem to Honda. Main reason older BMW 8 cylinder engines burning oil is valve seals. And, yes it will consume oil at idle, it even will consume oil when you will shut down the engine. Because some amount of oil will leak in to cylinders when the engine is off. Thats why there is a blue smoke when you start engine.

But you can't compare that to Honda engine. These are two different problems. There is mush less lubrication on cylinders at idle, even clogged rings can handle it (to a degree). Also oil jets are not active at idle and they contribute a lot to the oil consumption when the rings are clogged.

Kingcredible

Forgot to mention the reason dealer denied my claim: "You didn't get it regularly serviced here. If we had more history with your TL there might have been a better outcome"

Yeah, no s#1t. Didn't get it serviced there cause you charge an arm and a leg, and your techs don't seem to know how a clutch works. F&#k you Bob Lindsay Acura

BROlando

Again, I'm not saying an engine burns more oil at idle.

I'm saying excessive idling OR short tripping can very easily cause carbon to cake the rings and not allow them to seal.

So maybe very little oil is being burned at idle, even with carbon caked rings. Because oil pressure and RPM are low.

But during operating RPM or high RPM, you will see a larger effect of the ring sealing issue that was CAUSED by excess idling and/or short tripping.

KnowwhatImean?

And before all you oil burners get mad at me like I'm on Acura's side...I'm not. I'm not on anyone's side. I'm just saying....if you're curious as to why your carburns oil when someone else's doesn't....it may be explained by reviewing your driving method.

As a side effect of efficiency, modern engines are all more prone to this type of issue, it seems.

If you read your owner's manual, it may tell you to avoid excess idling and to not warm the car up in winter. It may also advise against short tripping.

GDI engines are worse with short tripping and idling But that is a different issue than the J37 port injected engine and its propensity to burn oil.

Kingcredible

No. This consumption issue has been clearly identified and documented in the 3.7. So much that Acura released new pistons and new ring designs. I have replaced my own with the updated parts and all is well now.

You seem to be blaming it on customer's driving habits!? Let's keep the blame on Acura who is actually responsible for this.

If the updated design and admission of error wasn't enough for you, look at the lawsuit and consequent warranty repairs. Victim blaming will only get you so far. I promise it won't get you past the failed hardening process of the 3.7' cams during manufacturing. But that's another thread's concern

altair47

Well, how do you explain the fact that not all owners of 3,7 face this problem?

altair47

[QUOTE=dzionny_dzionassi;16791002]Well, you cannot compare BMW oil consumption problem to Honda. Main reason older BMW 8 cylinder engines burning oil is valve seals. And, yes it will consume oil at idle, it even will consume oil when you will shut down the engine. Because some amount of oil will leak in to cylinders when the engine is off. Thats why there is a blue smoke when you start engine.

But you can't compare that to Honda engine. These are two different problems. There is mush less lubrication on cylinders at idle, even clogged rings can handle it (to a degree). Also oil jets are not active at idle and they contribute a lot to the oil consumption when the rings are clogged.[/QUOE]
Oil jets are not active at idle? Are you seriously? ECU send a signal to the oil jets that it is idling and they turn off?

BROlando

Reading is probably a good idea prior to responding.

Yes. The 3.7 has an issue.

The issue will be made WORSE if you idle or short trip a lot.

BROlando

Highlighting first that its not "victim blaming" if I'm giving you pointers on how to prevent or reduce a known issue.

That's...(no offense) the stupidest shit I've ever heard.

If anyone's interested in causation rather than "Acura messed this whole shit up", then....

The J37 is made from a eutectic alloy. I may not have spelled that correctly.

Its a silicon/aluminum alloy that is resistant enough to create a liner-less block.

Its relatively new tech. So its not as rock solid as using iron liners.

From my research....

It does, however give the advantage of weight, and cooling, and efficiency, etc.

*Most* engines of this type of construction do have some form of ring clogging or issue that causes oil to start burning.

The alloy has a "texture" from the silicon. This texture is meant to create pockets for an oil film to reside as the piston moves past it.

Since its new tech, it seems they didn't nail the piston ring design.

Seems nobody really has. Most silicon aluminum engines start burning oil faster than their iron lined counterparts (apples to apples)....regardless of manufacturer.

Modern engines have a huge push toward efficiency. So the piston/wall clearances are "loose" to reduce friction. Other friction reduction measures are also in place for a LOT of modern engines.

There are plenty of iron and FRM lined Honda engines that also start to burn oil at a relatively young age. Most of them have 1 thing in common. Friction reduction to aid efficiency and power - this is huge at Honda. Its a tough target to hit while also retaining oil.

These type of engines are going to be more prone to issues as a result of bad driving habits.

If the piston rings have a "loose" design, they will be easier to clog up.

Once they clog up, the effect will be worse than other designs.

1 very effective way to keep them from clogging?
Don't idle the car a lot and avoid short tripping.

I realise that may not be the way you choose to drive. I'm just giving you advice.

There's a reason NOT to warm up a modern car in the winter or just let it sit there idling for long times. Its detrimental. The car doesn't need (or want) you to warm it up for any appreciable time in winter.

You can also use the correct type of fuel from a tier 1 station. And use high quality oil and change it at a sensible interval.

Avoid high load, cold operation. Don't turn the car on, let it idle for a bit, floor it down the block, and then turn it off.

If you've got an old car with low mileage...it could be prone to burning oil for a myriad of reasons.

Maybe the low miles are a result of short tripping for all those years.

Maybe the oil was allowed to sit for years because the mileage never moved. So the valve seals broke down.

etc etc.

Cars are meant to be driven.

For all you J37 owners....you went out and bought a "special" car. Part of the reason it exists is because of the linerless block design. Just like any special car, it may require some special handling. Maybe you treated your old iron-lined engine like shit and it still ran fine.

Well....its 2021 and you bought something "special" with new technology.

Acura people are not used to this...but its still a lot less special handling than a European car needs.

If you have oiling issues and want to try some sensible resolution on your own...try a few things.

In the S2000 world...some people have even been able to reduce oil consumption over time, by switching to a high detetgent synthetic oil and maintaining a reasonable interval, and changing their driving habits.

The last 3.7 TL was made like 7 or 8 years ago. Be more informed, do credible research, and see what you can do on your own, if Acura's warranty has now been phased.

If you stopped reading a while back, then your solution remains to go complain to Acura about it and then complain on the internet that they didn't help you. Then you can continue to do nothing and get no results.

Midnight Mystery

Off topic, but would new rings and a re sleeve with a conventional material reduce premature engine wear on a J37?