Credible 5G TL Rumours Anyone?
04-05-2013, 12:09 AM
#161
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Not sure you can say that. MB moves to V8’s in the mid upper $50’s, BMW in the low $60,s & Audi in the low $70’s. If C&D is correct the RLX will be $20K more expensive than the lowest priced German V8 powered car.
The Germans are all moving more I4 Turbo models into the US market but that’s usually in the least expensive product lines. This is a big help in keeping the CAFÉ numbers on the good side of EPA fleet average mileage requirements.
The Germans are all moving more I4 Turbo models into the US market but that’s usually in the least expensive product lines. This is a big help in keeping the CAFÉ numbers on the good side of EPA fleet average mileage requirements.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 04-05-2013 at 12:14 AM.
04-05-2013, 03:38 AM
#162
6G TLX-S
But where are the Acura high-output V6's, in the tune of 330+hp ?
Up to this very moment, there isn't even a production 330hp V6 (NA, force-induced, nor hybrid) from Acura, while most top auto makers are having great success cranking out massive hp from turbo-charged and super-charged V6 motors.
The Germans are moving away from V8's. At least they have substitutes. But Acura has no V8 and no substitutes !
04-05-2013, 08:03 AM
#164
CTSV,TL, Audi Q7 & A5SB
^^ I guess you're suggesting that Acura should just give it up. If indeed the RLX AWD beats the crap out of its German competitors (and it might) and people still won't even look at it because "it's just an Acura," then Honda Motor Co. should just exit this segment.
I'm disappointed they didn't debut the AWD along with the FWD model, but from the few hints available, the AWD will be quite impressive. If Acura can achieve Infiniti M levels of sales with the combined cars, I suspect they'll be happy and will turn a tidy profit on the car.
Recall that 25 years ago a lot of people said no one would ever take an Acura (or Lexus or Infiniti) over a German car. A lot of Legends/TLs/ESs/LSs/and Infinitis have been sold since then. I don't doubt that there is a signficant segment of potential buyers in this segment that refuses to believe that anything from Japan can be better than a BMW/Audi/MB. Acura, I'm sure, knows this and doesn't harbor thoughts they will convince those folks otherwise. But for those who are open-minded, a SH-AWD car with great driving dynamics, first-rate tech and comfortable ride that attains 30 mpg average and has superb reliability might be something they will look at. Only time will tell, since the AWD is still a few months away and no has even reported a full test on one yet.
I'm disappointed they didn't debut the AWD along with the FWD model, but from the few hints available, the AWD will be quite impressive. If Acura can achieve Infiniti M levels of sales with the combined cars, I suspect they'll be happy and will turn a tidy profit on the car.
Recall that 25 years ago a lot of people said no one would ever take an Acura (or Lexus or Infiniti) over a German car. A lot of Legends/TLs/ESs/LSs/and Infinitis have been sold since then. I don't doubt that there is a signficant segment of potential buyers in this segment that refuses to believe that anything from Japan can be better than a BMW/Audi/MB. Acura, I'm sure, knows this and doesn't harbor thoughts they will convince those folks otherwise. But for those who are open-minded, a SH-AWD car with great driving dynamics, first-rate tech and comfortable ride that attains 30 mpg average and has superb reliability might be something they will look at. Only time will tell, since the AWD is still a few months away and no has even reported a full test on one yet.
But IMO Acura needed to come in around $60K MSRP for an RLX SH-AWD Tech. If they are going to push $70K IMO this is a mistake.
Think about it, the 2G RL had a lot of what you mention above in regards to good tech, ride and mileage. It also had the AWD, sold for around $50K and Acura couldn’t sell them, even when they were at the beginning of their life cycle.
So if Acura is planning to play at the $70K level, which is new territory to them, what sets them apart from the comp?
* The SH-AWD, it didn’t help with the 2G so what makes anyone think it will now.
* The Tech, while it may be more advanced than the comp IMO I don’t think it sets it apart to the point where many would buy an RLX over a Benz or BMW.
* A 370 HP engine (this is what has been rumored)I don’t think so when the E550 is rated @ 402 HP and the 550i @ 400HP.
I agree with you in that the AWD should have been introduced with the FWD. And that there will be some open minded buyers that may see value in a $70K RLX.
But IMO it won’t be many, and there lies the same problem Acura has been faced with all along with the 2G RL.
As you said lets see what a full road test shows. Maybe it will change my thinking.
04-05-2013, 09:04 AM
#165
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I would not short change the Euros on tech in the $70K range with things like night vision & heads up displays in addition to the other good stuff like safety bubbles.
They all have 4X4 systems available & Hybrid options. IMHO in that league the specific AWD system is not as important as actually having one. Most of these cars are not going to be run like a TL or 3 series by their owners.
That being said since they all need to have solid Nurburgring Ring lap time bragging rights to “prove” handling like the CTS-V etc. they would need some serious power.
They all have 4X4 systems available & Hybrid options. IMHO in that league the specific AWD system is not as important as actually having one. Most of these cars are not going to be run like a TL or 3 series by their owners.
That being said since they all need to have solid Nurburgring Ring lap time bragging rights to “prove” handling like the CTS-V etc. they would need some serious power.
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JT4 (04-05-2013)
04-05-2013, 09:47 AM
#166
Burning Brakes
Since the RLX is Acura's flagship model it should at least have a V8 option! All other manufacturers' flagship model have one...standard! IMO they need a V8 to compete. If you're in the market for large sedan, you're not too concerned about gas mileage. And there is always a market for V8 powered cars, granted it's a small market but people like myself 
would love to own a V8 sedan someday. Instant torque and the roar is music to my ears. 
Every luxury manufacturer has one but not Acura.
would love to own a V8 sedan someday. Instant torque and the roar is music to my ears. Every luxury manufacturer has one but not Acura.
04-05-2013, 11:15 AM
#167
Suzuka Master
Since the RLX is Acura's flagship model it should at least have a V8 option! All other manufacturers' flagship model have one...standard! IMO they need a V8 to compete. If you're in the market for large sedan, you're not too concerned about gas mileage. And there is always a market for V8 powered cars, granted it's a small market but people like myself would love to own a V8 sedan someday. Instant torque and the roar is music to my ears. Every luxury manufacturer has one but not Acura.
would love to own a V8 sedan someday. Instant torque and the roar is music to my ears. Every luxury manufacturer has one but not Acura.
04-06-2013, 11:47 AM
#168
I am curious to see if Acura is strategically releasing their TLX a year later to have an edge over the competition? They have been burned a few time by releasing a vehicle only to have the competition release a year later and provide tech/features that would cast a shadow on their vehicle....Maybe now, they are waiting and seeing what Infiniti/Lexus etc will come out with so they can then just make their car the "fresher" of the bunch? Maybe not but I am just wondering?
Also.....It is interesting to see that Mercedes is coming out with a FWD model and that even BMW is likely going to introduce a FWD model. So even the Europeans are coming out with a FWD plateform.
Also.....It is interesting to see that Mercedes is coming out with a FWD model and that even BMW is likely going to introduce a FWD model. So even the Europeans are coming out with a FWD plateform.
04-06-2013, 12:24 PM
#169
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If that’s the strategy they better fire the strategist real fast. Production lead times & tooling development on a new car are way too long to hold any meaningful game changing items in their back pocket to see what happens. They will only lose sales they can never make back up by waiting. If they can’t get the car out they are having some kind of internal issues.
The MB & BMW FWD’s are basic entry level cars. In BMW’s case they will be built on the Mini Cooper FWD platform. The stated marketing strategy is: a FWD BMW may be bought as a “secondary household vehicle”. All the other models are still RWD platforms with 4X4 systems available.
The MB & BMW FWD’s are basic entry level cars. In BMW’s case they will be built on the Mini Cooper FWD platform. The stated marketing strategy is: a FWD BMW may be bought as a “secondary household vehicle”. All the other models are still RWD platforms with 4X4 systems available.
04-06-2013, 12:32 PM
#170
^^ I agree that they can't add game changing technology at the last minute but they might be able to squeeze a few goodies inside the car to make it relevant. Again, I doubt its the case but rather...hoping *lol*
With respect to the BMW and MB, I know its their entry level vehicle but it may have the effect of diluting the brand may have an impact from the purist's point of view. Many are not overly happy that they have less and less naturally aspired engine in their line up and relying more and more on turbos.
With respect to the BMW and MB, I know its their entry level vehicle but it may have the effect of diluting the brand may have an impact from the purist's point of view. Many are not overly happy that they have less and less naturally aspired engine in their line up and relying more and more on turbos.
04-06-2013, 03:01 PM
#171
Suzuka Master
The big decision they need to make with tech is go with less expensive Accord tech or bring the RLX/MDX tech into the TLX. Honestly looking at everything the Q50 will have in it, they need everything from the RLX including Krell to 1 up the competition. I am sure the IS will also have tons of tech, maybe not as much as the Q50. Honestly they need to show the TLX soon and at least give some indication as to when, as mentioned when the CTS, IS and Q50 hit as well as the CLA there will be lost sales that will not be recovered in the 5 year cycle of the TLX. I do think we are going to see the Japanese move more to a 6 year cycle maybe with more changes at MMC t o help with costs. Infiniti proved that a 7 year G did not hurt them, of course they had to incentive it to death this last year, but their sales are still sales and since the R&D was long ago recouped I am sure even at the huge discounts they are making nice profits.
04-07-2013, 07:10 PM
#172
MB is dropping V8 form E next year, the V8 will be a rare breed in all but the ultra-luxo top end cars. Lexus dumped the V8 in the GS with the current gen. turbo or super charged V6 is the future. I'd also bet that eventually Lexus adds a V6 option to the LS and will eventually drop the V8 or make it optional.
The GS V8 was initially awesome, and accounted for quite a sizeable amount of sales, however, on the last GS, Lexus made the incredibly strange decision to limit the MMC (the 3rd gen had both the initial 4.3 and the replacement 4.6L V8) GS460's HP to 340HP - from 380HP. It resulted in a GS460 that wasn't much faster than the GS450h (hybrid). Was anybody really surprised the GS V8 sales tanked after that? At any rate, the real argument for the Germans, is whether they will keep their 12 cylinder engines. V8 is pretty much a given for them, still.
Lexus and Infiniti, on the other hand, might try and bluff the market with hybrid V6 cars, even at the flagship level. We all know Infiniti will attempt just that (unless if their US division screams and shoehorns in a V8 truck engine, again).
Last edited by jshaw; 04-07-2013 at 07:13 PM.
04-07-2013, 07:53 PM
#173
Suzuka Master
The truth is that V8s are being put in niche models. Sure AMG model will have it, but really how many of those do they sell? And honestly I see nothing wrong with twin turbo V6 or even the hybrid approach, nothing like electric assist for instant torque.
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jshaw (04-07-2013)
04-07-2013, 10:17 PM
#174
6G TLX-S
^^^^^
With more and more auto makers dropping the V8 engine options, it ends up that V8 engine options will all the more become the class status symbol for the truly luxury auto makers and their ultra-luxury vehicles.
In the future, this will be especially more so for the selective few V8-vehicle owners, who will be perceived as being another step up in status class than those regular non-V8 luxury vehicle owners.
With more and more auto makers dropping the V8 engine options, it ends up that V8 engine options will all the more become the class status symbol for the truly luxury auto makers and their ultra-luxury vehicles.
In the future, this will be especially more so for the selective few V8-vehicle owners, who will be perceived as being another step up in status class than those regular non-V8 luxury vehicle owners.
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BEAR-AvHistory (04-08-2013)
04-07-2013, 10:45 PM
#175
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jshaw (04-11-2013)
04-08-2013, 01:04 PM
#179
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Hey me either my I6 twin turbo has nearly 400whp. That being said I believe a V8 is still & will be a requirement for luxury Tier 1 status. BMW, MB & Audi have sold I4's forever but the top of the line is all V8.
Most of what comes out of Europe is based on tax rates where displacement = tax revenue. The car tax goes up very sharply over 2.5 liters. I had a 4.0 Jaguar’s V8’s & the annual bill was very big compared to the same car with a 3.2 liter engine.
Most of what comes out of Europe is based on tax rates where displacement = tax revenue. The car tax goes up very sharply over 2.5 liters. I had a 4.0 Jaguar’s V8’s & the annual bill was very big compared to the same car with a 3.2 liter engine.
04-08-2013, 07:31 PM
#180
04-09-2013, 06:37 PM
#181
Has anybody heard or have a feeling Acura may not offer the 6M/T tranny in the 5G TL?
I hope they keep it, but not going to hold my breath.........It would be a shame if they did away with it.
Even if it is only offered in 1 model/trim level like the 4G.......at least it's still an option for us that like to row our own.
I hope they keep it, but not going to hold my breath.........It would be a shame if they did away with it.
Even if it is only offered in 1 model/trim level like the 4G.......at least it's still an option for us that like to row our own.
04-10-2013, 07:16 AM
#182
CTSV,TL, Audi Q7 & A5SB
Has anybody heard or have a feeling Acura may not offer the 6M/T tranny in the 5G TL?
I hope they keep it, but not going to hold my breath.........It would be a shame if they did away with it.
Even if it is only offered in 1 model/trim level like the 4G.......at least it's still an option for us that like to row our own.
I hope they keep it, but not going to hold my breath.........It would be a shame if they did away with it.
Even if it is only offered in 1 model/trim level like the 4G.......at least it's still an option for us that like to row our own.
I haven’t heard anything (rumors) to suggest that they will drop the 6MT but for some reason I think Acura is considering it. Time will tell.
04-10-2013, 12:33 PM
#184
Burning Brakes
It's the only mid size sedan offering AWD w/ a 6MT. That's the one thing they got right w/ the 4G IMO. Let's hope they offer the same for the 5G.
04-10-2013, 01:45 PM
#185
You must be happy with it, I hope.
04-10-2013, 02:13 PM
#186
Burning Brakes
LOL...what I meant was Acura made the right decision by offering the 4G w/ an AWD 6MT. No other premium mid size sedan has this combo. NONE. It is rare. And yes...I'm very happy w/ it. I love my baby!
04-10-2013, 06:37 PM
#188
Intermediate
I was looking and looking for a thread like this and finally found it! I'm in a predicament myself, the lease on my 2010 SH-AWD ends in July and I'm torn as to what to do. I can either buy it, extend my lease another 6-8 months with hope that the TLX comes out within that time frame or just return the car and drive my old Montero for as long as it takes till the TLX comes out (my least favorite option). I'm confused but hopefully as July comes closer we'll have a better understanding of what's coming out and when.
04-10-2013, 06:51 PM
#190
Suzuka Master
I was looking and looking for a thread like this and finally found it! I'm in a predicament myself, the lease on my 2010 SH-AWD ends in July and I'm torn as to what to do. I can either buy it, extend my lease another 6-8 months with hope that the TLX comes out within that time frame or just return the car and drive my old Montero for as long as it takes till the TLX comes out (my least favorite option). I'm confused but hopefully as July comes closer we'll have a better understanding of what's coming out and when.
04-11-2013, 04:44 PM
#192
Intermediate
I am in similar situation, lease ends in September. So one thing to remember is let's say TLX goes on sale next March. And let's assume a SH-AWD is released same time, you know dealers are going to try and hold out for as close to MSRP as possible the first few months, especially as supply will need to build up. So IMO I think it will be next summer before you get a decent deal on a SH-AWD TLX. Now if they offer SH-SH-AWD I doubt that will be day one, so you are looking at probably the end of next year for a reasonable price on it. So being in same position I know I can't extend my lease more than about 3-6 months and buying is not feasible since lease buyout are usually horrible. So I can get a great deal on a 4G AWD and drive it 2 years and hope I will like the TLX or I can move on for now and come back in 3 years when I can trade out of the next car. The other variable is the CTS to me is looking really sweet. Right now I am leaning toward ordering a new M37 Sport exactly the way I want it.
04-11-2013, 07:57 PM
#193
Honestly, I really want to stay with Acura too.....I love my dealership experience and that in itself is a big reason for me to want to stay with the brand. I am REALLY really hoping they will do a good job with the TLX. For me, its not that I am asking for lots of gizmo techs that will sway my decision to buy or not....Its how the car looks (inside and out), how it handles, whether its has nice accessories available (body kits and wheels) and I would love some luxury features....and not the stuff that is all connected or tied to a phone. We don't get the Jewel eyes, please give bi-xenon and adaptable headlights, I would love a heads up display, I'd love heated steering wheels and things like that. For me, I want a luxury car, not a luxury moving phone....I know many people love their phone applications but I want my car to be something I can enjoy driving.
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KarKraze (04-12-2013)
04-11-2013, 08:19 PM
#194
Burning Brakes
I'm staying with Acura I think, no matter what. I don't like how the M37 looks, it's more of a conservative look, not stylish. A very close family friend owns a local Acura dealership here so I don't think I'll have a problem getting my hands on one of the first TLX's at a very decent price so I'm holding out hope it comes out sooner than later. The buyout on my '10 TL SH-AWD Tech is about $25,000 in July and I think that should be a nice price if I decide to buy it and just wait for the TLX.
04-11-2013, 10:40 PM
#195
Pro
Maybe I missed it but what is the significance of the name change from TL to TLX. Normally adding a letter to a model signifies something special or some enhanced features (like the old BMW 325e versus the 325es or the G37 and the G37s and even the TL and the TL-S). So what does going from TL to TLX do other than cause confusion and the usual habit of Acura not to stick with a particular model name?
04-12-2013, 02:18 AM
#196
It is the only reasonable (not base model) offering right, now, though.
04-12-2013, 06:59 AM
#197
Suzuka Master
Maybe I missed it but what is the significance of the name change from TL to TLX. Normally adding a letter to a model signifies something special or some enhanced features (like the old BMW 325e versus the 325es or the G37 and the G37s and even the TL and the TL-S). So what does going from TL to TLX do other than cause confusion and the usual habit of Acura not to stick with a particular model name?
Of course to me the names make no sense in cars your go
ILX > TLX > RLX
in SUV you go
RDX > MDX
These guys are as confusing as Infiniti taking everything to a Q name.
04-12-2013, 10:01 AM
#198
Burning Brakes
04-12-2013, 11:04 AM
#199
Pro
Acura would have been (or now would be) much better served by choosing model names/designations and sticking with them. This is essentially the branding model set by the European makers which maybe subliminally evokes a feeling of confidence and longevity (e.g., the 3-series you buy today is derived from the 3-series that was around in the 1980s and will be predecessor to the 3-series 20 years down the line). Lexus is really the only Asian maker with the smarts to have recognized the value of sticking with particular model lines. The next best has been Infiniti but they have bobbled the concept and by far the worst has been Acura.
04-12-2013, 11:28 AM
#200
Suzuka Master
Agreed, Infiniti says they made the change now since they are building the brand globally. They could have left the US models alone as the brand models are known here. You can talk to plenty of people and mention an Infiniti G and it has instant recognition. Acura should have stuck with 2 letters for Cars and add the X for SUVs. Fortunately it is not extremely confusing and lets face it the RL was not well known so people learning RLX is not a big deal. The TL on the other hand, that may be an issue, the TL has some name recognition.