Booya4139

Buy an ILX...

a35tl

I don't understand that you don't understand that acceleration numbers are typically enhanced by more horsepower. I still want a version of the TLX that has a 5.0 second or better 0-60 time. If they can use another strategy than increasing hp and torque, I'm fine with that. But it isn't likely to happen without adding more horses under the hood. If you want a slower vehicle, consider a 4 cylinder model. I personally think Acura needs to jack the TLX up a notch and really make it a viable, competitive performance sedan. I also don't think I'm the only one wishing for a truly high performance TLX from Acura.

a35tl

Well like I stated, I'm okay with Acura offering the base TLX with the 310hp Earth Dreams engine. But what's wrong with wishing for a high performance model that appeals to the enthusiasts among us? Also, I don't want the Acura TLX to be reduced to being compared to "regular" family sedans. I would like it to be compared to other performance sedans and really be a strong contender in the field, excelling in acceleration and the other areas you mentioned, and of course have great style. Acura is too good to settle for mediocrity. There's way too much regular out there for people to choose from. Acuras should appeal to those who don't want to settle for "regular".

Edward'TLS

Simple answers.

Canadians have significantly less disposable income than the Americans, and thus most can only afford cheap I4 rather than expensive V6, as well as visit the gas pump less often. Gas price in Canada is more expensive than in the US.

Just look at the enormous amount of Canadians crossing the border everyday into the US, gobbling up cheap gas and cheap everything.

Since 2006, the entry level Canadian Acura car is the 2L CSX, all the while the entry level US one is the 2.4L TSX.

Thus, it isn't out of the ordinary that the Canadian market has cheap cars with small engines, but the US market doesn't.


What is best is that Acura would offer 2 extreme engine choices in the TL sedan - one for fuel economy and one for big hp.

A 250hp 3.0L-V6 with VCM and start-stop technology for the base TL with excellent fuel economy, for those who don't mind a slow car.

Than a 330-350hp forced-induction 3.5L-V6 for the top-line TL with all-out performance with no regard for any fuel economy whatsoever, for those who are looking for the ultimate thrill.

This will cater to the both groups of buyers that have conflicting interests among each other.

SharkyZiff

+1

After having leased 3 Accords, 2 Acura TSXs, I just jumped ship and leased a 2013 Infiniti G37x (couldn't pass up the lease deals) since the 4G TL does not do it for me in the looks department.

I hope the 5G TLX looks great so I can come back home in a couple years.

draph

Personally, I think the fact there have been no spy shots of TLXs running around is a very good sign that the 4G replacement is going to be such a spectacular improvement that Honda fears it could stop sales of 2013 TLs in their tracks even if a pic of a heavily disguised one got out. It also might imply that the "spy" photographers really are in cahoots with the OEMs as part of the "grass roots advertising and viral marketing" machine (ie, it's not time to expose the TLX yet - don't want any dilution of the RLX and MDX rollouts.

In regards to testing on public roads, provided major architectural points are the same as the Accord, they are likely driving 2013 Accords with TLX suspensions and drivetrains on the public roads right now. They'd really only need to get actual TLX prototypes out on the roads and test tracks if things like grill openings, brake ducting, etc. were different enough from the Accord that there'd be some kind of performance or reliability concern that needed to be mitigated via real-world testing.

draph

All this repeated talk about "Acura is struggling with its identity" really has me concerned about one of things I've really enjoyed in 12 years owning Honda/Acura products - one of the best MTs on the market. I sure hope they can continue to maintain a vision of "high tech with a little old-school driving fun still thrown in". I know high-tech computer controlled dual clutch F1 style automated manuals and many automatics can now outperform MTs in efficiency and performance; but I also believe it takes a lot away from a truly interactive man-machine driving relationship. If Acura abandons the offering of an MT in the highest performance version of the TLX in the pursuit of an identity of high-tech, efficient performance, I will buy my next car elsewhere, even if I have to go down-market to a mainstream brand, given Infiniti has now abandoned the MT enthusiast with their G37 replacement. The next Subaru WRX STI may be a contender - it appears they are going for the older enthusiast by showing their latest concept without the giant boy-racer wing on the back. Back in 2010 when I bought my TL, the Legacy GT was a darn nice car for the money (it accelerated as quickly as the TL 6MT) - but they decontented too much from the prior generation GT and Spec B, not to mention their shift linkage was no match to Honda/Acura. It disappointed me to see Subie killed off the Legacy GT altogether rather than fix the decontenting, like bringing back the performance oriented AWD system with the Torsen LSD.

08AcuraTL3

just give us a damn release date already lol

KeithL

Not going to happen any time soon. Although the way they are discounting the TL right now is pretty amazing, but they still only sold a hair over 3000 cars last month, which with $2K to $3.5K in dosounts is rather disappointing seeing as the 7 year old G is still selling well even with Q50 soon to be released.

LawnPro

Keith - Acura is only discounting the 13' TL's 2k - 3.5k? Maybe cause nobody has seen or heard much of the 5G yet.
I bet when there is a release date on the 5G - Acura may be just about giving the 13' TL away with big discounts!?

KeithL

True, but since most dealers are selling AWD Advance for about $5900 under MSRP that is a good deal regardless. True when the 5G is announced the 4G will probably be discounted about $6K+ even without conquest cash.

TeamAcura

The only true enthusiast cars left are just a handful. The TLs, 3 Series, Audi S Line and the STIs that I can think of at the moment. I'm talking about th AWD cars with a 6speed gearbox. It's a rare and dying breed. If Acura pulls the plug on a 6MT option, I will probably end up looking at an Audi instead when it's time for car shopping. It will be a shame because I find their AWD system to be one of the best, I loved it so much I traded my '09 SH-AWD in to get a 6speed gearbox.

g37guy01

In my on humble opinion, three pedals does not an enthusiasts car make. You are no more a car enthusiast because you drive an acura with an m/t and I drive a BMW with a dct.(for example)

TeamAcura

There are all kinds of car enthusiasts. Some strictly into asethetics, others into performance modding and others are purely driving enthusiats. I guess what I was getting at is if you like driving and being in control of car, there's no better way to do that than with a 6speed MT IMO. I just hate the computer doing the shifting for you when you can do it yourself. It takes the thrill and pleasure away from the total driving experience. Some people prefer an AT and still get pleasure from it and I'm cool with that. In the end, I agree we're all car enthusiasts albeit different kinds.

08AcuraTL3

in your opinion, when do you think the 5G will officially release?

KeithL

My guess, at best same as RLX, next March, otherwise mid 2014.

I have been on the fence for 2 months now exploring options to bridge me until the 5G comes out, but at this point I am fairly worn out and disappointed. I fully get Acura's situation after the tsunami and their reverse reaction after being beat up by the 4G beak, but they really need to be aggressively attacking this market. Competition is so strong they can not rely on the Honda reputation forever. The Accord is a huge hit. The RDX is a very good hot, but it is a bit conservative and they should have held it up 6 month sand gotten the Accord Tech in it. The TLX should be out this year otherwise the ATS,CTS,IS,Q50,etc will be taking TLX buyers every day the TLX is not out. The TLX needs to have all the tech the RLX has in an Advance package (except maybe the Krell) or they will be starting behind the pack. The TLX, RDX and MDX should be the big sellers so focusing on the RLX from an ego image view is a waste of potential sales. Sure they will sell some RLXs, but never enough to make up for having a good solid TLX out there. Also what will they do with SH-SH-AWD, will that be in the TLX or just regular SH-AWD or worse the RDX AWD?

I am at a point where I can either snatch a 4G AWD Advance for a bargain and be so-so about it for 18+ months and HOPE I will like the TLX, or I can jump ship to another brand, or as I am leaning today , order a new M37 Sport Touring with Tech which to me for around same money as RLX Advance is a superior machine inside and out. Acura tech may be a tad more advanced, but in t he end I am not spending $60K on a FWD car, I have been to the RWD dark side and will not return to FWD unless it is SH-SH-AWD or SH-AWD.

JT4

^^ LMAO -This is exactly how most of us feel.

But IMO I think we are at least a year away from a release date.

jhumbo

iTrader: (1)

The ILX does not provide luxury... at least it's not any more luxury than the sedans offered in that price range by non-luxury brands.

Which is why I am now in a Kia Optima SX. No matter how many ways I looked at it, no matter how many test drives I took and no matter how much I really wanted to get another Acura, I just kept coming back to the fact that I really like what Kia had to offer better over ILX or TSX... and it was cheaper... and it gets 34mpg highway... with 274hp.

I loved my TL. I love our MDX and I'd like to get into another Acura sedan one day, but for now, I'm in a Kia.

TeamAcura

KIA FTW! I think the Optima is a sharp looking car but it's still a KIA. I'm skeptic about their reliability over the long term.

jhumbo

iTrader: (1)

I'm skeptical too, but I was willing to give them a shot.

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

No reason to be skeptical, time and time again they've proven to be bad: http://www.dallasnews.com/business/a...e-switches.ece. Only thing worse than trying to convince the masses that Korean quality has vastly improved are the constant recalls and misrepresentations (much lower MPG then stated).

KeithL

Then count my family lucky, they have or have owned 5 Hyundai's since 2005 and all have been rock solid. My sis is still driving a 2005 Sante Fe with no issues on NYC roads, my parents own 2 Sonatas, as does my nephew and my father had an Elantra he beak the crap out of. the differences in quality between the best and worst is a shrinking window.

BEAR-AvHistory

Saw in C&D that the 4X4 RLX with be a $70K car.

dwest1023

I test drove a Kia optima turbo and I was impressed. Felt very solid and planted.

BEAR-AvHistory

Pretty sure Hyundai is about #5 in global car sales with about twice Honda's production capability so they must be doing something right.

JT4

IMO Acura will have have a tough enough time selling them @ $60K.

I don't care what tech it has, how advanced it is Acura is not going to sell many, if any @ $70K.

Again IMO.

TeamAcura

The older folks who don't know any better will buy it.

KeithL

I doubt that when they go to the dealer and see one for $55K and one for $70

TeamAcura

If they have a really good sales person trying to they will. When I was car shopping, I was impressed at this one dealer who just wouldn't let me walk out the door without signing papers. I was just I'm gonna keep on shopping and get back to you if I'm still interested. Man...

JT4

I could be wrong but just don’t see someone who is looking at an E550 4 Matic, 550ix, A6 or A7 cross shopping an RLX.

If I was going out tomorrow looking to spend $70K on a car I am not even thinking of going to an Acura dealer, and I like Acura’s.

I’m going to a Benz, BMW, & Audi dealer and deciding from there.

BEAR-AvHistory

No we won't. They could not sell the last one @ $50K

jhumbo

iTrader: (1)

Ahhh, but you know better. Someone like my father definitely does not know better.

JT4

^^ Very true, and that’s my point..

Hypothetically speaking, let’s just say that the RLX beats the crap out of the MB, BMW and Audi in comparison testing. The problem is (and no one take this wrong) at the end of the day it’s still an Acura.

And right, wrong or indifferent, for most people spending $70K on a car they are not only looking at the performance and functionally, they also expect a certain amount of prestige or curb appeal that comes from driving the Benz, BMW or Audi.

Unfortunately, this is something that no matter how good the RLX may turn out to be it just will never have compared to the Benz, BMW or Audi.

And IMO this is why it won’t do well at or near $70K

JM2010 SH-AWD

^^ I guess you're suggesting that Acura should just give it up. If indeed the RLX AWD beats the crap out of its German competitors (and it might) and people still won't even look at it because "it's just an Acura," then Honda Motor Co. should just exit this segment.

I'm disappointed they didn't debut the AWD along with the FWD model, but from the few hints available, the AWD will be quite impressive. If Acura can achieve Infiniti M levels of sales with the combined cars, I suspect they'll be happy and will turn a tidy profit on the car.

Recall that 25 years ago a lot of people said no one would ever take an Acura (or Lexus or Infiniti) over a German car. A lot of Legends/TLs/ESs/LSs/and Infinitis have been sold since then. I don't doubt that there is a signficant segment of potential buyers in this segment that refuses to believe that anything from Japan can be better than a BMW/Audi/MB. Acura, I'm sure, knows this and doesn't harbor thoughts they will convince those folks otherwise. But for those who are open-minded, a SH-AWD car with great driving dynamics, first-rate tech and comfortable ride that attains 30 mpg average and has superb reliability might be something they will look at. Only time will tell, since the AWD is still a few months away and no has even reported a full test on one yet.

BEAR-AvHistory

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Think that will be a major stretch for Acura. Like it or not the market does not see them as a Tier 1 manufacturer. Over the past 12 years they sold 70,000 RL’s. The E-Class sold about 65,000 units last year & even the pricey big S & CLS knocked out 20,000 units looking north of $100k.

The M which is a nice car did 9,000 spread between the $50K+ & $65K+ versions last year. The M looks to top out with everything available at $75K but have no idea which flavor carried the sales load but I expect it was in the $56/65K range.

What made Lexus a success was getting their foot in the door selling a 1/2 price S class MB. Even then it took quite awhile for it to gain acceptance. They are still selling an S class light car in the $85/$100K range.

Honda/Acura is trying if C&D is correct to go head to head with these guys after a long time selling $45K top end cars, There is no pricing history, no legacy which is what the others are trading on, so it will be tuff for them.

TeamAcura

If the RLX came w\ a rwd V8 powered car then most people can justify the cost and they undercut the competition. That's how Lexus did it. No one is going to take them seriously until they do. They need a V8! I heard the RLX was supposed to have a V8 but the economy took a hit and plans were halted. I think it will only be a matter of time though.

dwest1023

I agree. No way I pay 70K for an Acura sedan. Now, the NSX....

KeithL

I can shed a little light in that. I have been searching virtually every Infiniti dealer east od the Missisippi for 2 months looking for a car and the M37 troops out around $65K and the M56 goes higher as does the hybrid M35h. That said the majority of Infinitisons on dealer lots are basic cars with Premium Package some times deluxe touring, but most run in the mid 50's. Just like most BMWs, MBs and Audia are not the loaded cars, neither is Infiniti. Even the M37 Sport not very common. I will likely orde another M37, a M37 Sport Touring with Tech which is comparable to an RLX Advance and runs a tad more at about $63K so Acura is clearly giving a bit of a value for what it is.

KeithL

I do not agree that they need a V8 if you look Lexus dropped the V8 from the GS. I do think they need RWD, but let's face it Acura will never do a RWD based car. They should have stuck to their original strength with SH-AWD.

JM2010 SH-AWD

Even the Germans are moving quickly away from V8s in light of ever increasing gas prices and, more importantly, USA CAFE standards. It would be silly for Acura to go to a V8 in these times.