Credible 5G TL Rumours Anyone?
10-04-2012, 01:26 AM
#41
6G TLX-S
Back then, the V6 Accord coupe cost thousands less and had similar performance, just like the way today's TL model killing the sales of the Acura flagship RL.
10-04-2012, 06:46 PM
#42
Everyone says more power...more power. On the SHINY side of the coin... This electric/hybrid all wheel drive thing isn't such a bad idea if done right. Electric motors have no torque curve. from 1/1000th of an RPM to peak rotation, it's 100% torque. If the computer is keyed to put 80 hp and 240 additional foot/lbs to the rear wheels in a launch control scenario, you could have a 13 second TL that gets to 60 in under 6 seconds, and still gets 35 MPG combined.
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Litt (11-17-2012)
10-04-2012, 10:57 PM
#43
6G TLX-S
^^^^^
Agree. Nothing beats the instant and massive torque available from electric motor assist.
It's the only way to go to add power, when there's no chance of a V8 nor a supercharged V6 happening.
Agree. Nothing beats the instant and massive torque available from electric motor assist.
It's the only way to go to add power, when there's no chance of a V8 nor a supercharged V6 happening.
10-07-2012, 10:00 PM
#45
Three Wheelin'
I think everyone here has it all wrong. the one thing no one has mentioned is the TL going away completely. With the introduction of the ILX...they have too many models. the line is scattered, and there is too much blurring in features, etc. between the ILX, TSX, and TL.
it's ridiculous in my opinion and the smart thing would be for them to let the TL die as it should have with the horrible job they did with the design of the 4G TL. The current TSX design is what the TL should have looked like as a more gradual and less shocking departure from the 3G body style. But they fubared it. The 4G is the worst looking car I've ever seen aside from the CL.
The ILX and the RLX design are where they should have been 3-4 years ago. Now they have too many cars in their lineup and it's confusing. I say put the TL to death, make the next TSX the "new" TL and there you have it, ILX, TSX, RLX. 3 luxury sedan options to match their 3 SUV design options (RDX, MDX, ZDX)
that's what I think is going to happen...
it's ridiculous in my opinion and the smart thing would be for them to let the TL die as it should have with the horrible job they did with the design of the 4G TL. The current TSX design is what the TL should have looked like as a more gradual and less shocking departure from the 3G body style. But they fubared it. The 4G is the worst looking car I've ever seen aside from the CL.
The ILX and the RLX design are where they should have been 3-4 years ago. Now they have too many cars in their lineup and it's confusing. I say put the TL to death, make the next TSX the "new" TL and there you have it, ILX, TSX, RLX. 3 luxury sedan options to match their 3 SUV design options (RDX, MDX, ZDX)
that's what I think is going to happen...
10-07-2012, 10:28 PM
#46
Summer is Coming
I think everyone here has it all wrong. the one thing no one has mentioned is the TL going away completely. With the introduction of the ILX...they have too many models. the line is scattered, and there is too much blurring in features, etc. between the ILX, TSX, and TL.
it's ridiculous in my opinion and the smart thing would be for them to let the TL die as it should have with the horrible job they did with the design of the 4G TL. The current TSX design is what the TL should have looked like as a more gradual and less shocking departure from the 3G body style. But they fubared it. The 4G is the worst looking car I've ever seen aside from the CL.
The ILX and the RLX design are where they should have been 3-4 years ago. Now they have too many cars in their lineup and it's confusing. I say put the TL to death, make the next TSX the "new" TL and there you have it, ILX, TSX, RLX. 3 luxury sedan options to match their 3 SUV design options (RDX, MDX, ZDX)
that's what I think is going to happen...
it's ridiculous in my opinion and the smart thing would be for them to let the TL die as it should have with the horrible job they did with the design of the 4G TL. The current TSX design is what the TL should have looked like as a more gradual and less shocking departure from the 3G body style. But they fubared it. The 4G is the worst looking car I've ever seen aside from the CL.
The ILX and the RLX design are where they should have been 3-4 years ago. Now they have too many cars in their lineup and it's confusing. I say put the TL to death, make the next TSX the "new" TL and there you have it, ILX, TSX, RLX. 3 luxury sedan options to match their 3 SUV design options (RDX, MDX, ZDX)
that's what I think is going to happen...
Oh.. with fold down rear seats!!!! Are you listening Acura???? I don't want to have to get the Accord just to get this.
11-12-2012, 07:45 PM
#48
This is from a press release today:
Three-motor SPORT HYBRID SH-AWD® (SPORT HYBRID Super Handling - All Wheel Drive):
The combination of a V6 engine and this high-output three-motor system realizes acceleration performance equivalent to that of a V8 engine with fuel economy better than that of an inline 4-cylinder engine. A new V6 3.5L direct-injection engine is installed in the front of the vehicle and combined with a newly-developed 7-speed DCT system with a built-in motor. This unique Honda technology uses two motors installed in the rear to control torque distribution to the right and left rear wheels.
<Outline of the System>
Using independent motors for the right and left rear wheels, positive torque is applied to the outside wheel and negative torque is applied to the inside wheel, making independent control of torque distribution to the rear wheels possible without relying on engine output.
Depending on the radius of the curve, the energy generated by the inside wheel is recovered electrically and applied to the outside wheel to self-generate torque necessary for the vehicle to make the turn.
Three-motor SPORT HYBRID SH-AWD® (SPORT HYBRID Super Handling - All Wheel Drive):
The combination of a V6 engine and this high-output three-motor system realizes acceleration performance equivalent to that of a V8 engine with fuel economy better than that of an inline 4-cylinder engine. A new V6 3.5L direct-injection engine is installed in the front of the vehicle and combined with a newly-developed 7-speed DCT system with a built-in motor. This unique Honda technology uses two motors installed in the rear to control torque distribution to the right and left rear wheels.
<Outline of the System>
Using independent motors for the right and left rear wheels, positive torque is applied to the outside wheel and negative torque is applied to the inside wheel, making independent control of torque distribution to the rear wheels possible without relying on engine output.
Depending on the radius of the curve, the energy generated by the inside wheel is recovered electrically and applied to the outside wheel to self-generate torque necessary for the vehicle to make the turn.
11-12-2012, 07:45 PM
#49
1st Gear
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If it is indeed going to replace both the V6 TSX and the TL it will almost have to have a lower base price. Plus they want to keep it away from the price of the RLX as the current TL is priced too close the current RL, which did not help sales of the flagship.
11-12-2012, 11:49 PM
#50
6G TLX-S
^^^^^
Really ?
The 2013 TL is MSRP priced between $36K to $45K. The 2012 RL was MSRP priced between $48K to $56K.
There's almost $10K different between the base trims of the two all the way to the top-of-the-line trims of the two.
That's why the RL isn't selling, because of the $10K premium over the TL.
Really ?
The 2013 TL is MSRP priced between $36K to $45K. The 2012 RL was MSRP priced between $48K to $56K.
There's almost $10K different between the base trims of the two all the way to the top-of-the-line trims of the two.
That's why the RL isn't selling, because of the $10K premium over the TL.
11-13-2012, 05:39 AM
#51
Summer is Coming
This is from a press release today:
Three-motor SPORT HYBRID SH-AWD® (SPORT HYBRID Super Handling - All Wheel Drive):
The combination of a V6 engine and this high-output three-motor system realizes acceleration performance equivalent to that of a V8 engine with fuel economy better than that of an inline 4-cylinder engine. A new V6 3.5L direct-injection engine is installed in the front of the vehicle and combined with a newly-developed 7-speed DCT system with a built-in motor. This unique Honda technology uses two motors installed in the rear to control torque distribution to the right and left rear wheels.
<Outline of the System>
Using independent motors for the right and left rear wheels, positive torque is applied to the outside wheel and negative torque is applied to the inside wheel, making independent control of torque distribution to the rear wheels possible without relying on engine output.
Depending on the radius of the curve, the energy generated by the inside wheel is recovered electrically and applied to the outside wheel to self-generate torque necessary for the vehicle to make the turn.
Three-motor SPORT HYBRID SH-AWD® (SPORT HYBRID Super Handling - All Wheel Drive):
The combination of a V6 engine and this high-output three-motor system realizes acceleration performance equivalent to that of a V8 engine with fuel economy better than that of an inline 4-cylinder engine. A new V6 3.5L direct-injection engine is installed in the front of the vehicle and combined with a newly-developed 7-speed DCT system with a built-in motor. This unique Honda technology uses two motors installed in the rear to control torque distribution to the right and left rear wheels.
<Outline of the System>
Using independent motors for the right and left rear wheels, positive torque is applied to the outside wheel and negative torque is applied to the inside wheel, making independent control of torque distribution to the rear wheels possible without relying on engine output.
Depending on the radius of the curve, the energy generated by the inside wheel is recovered electrically and applied to the outside wheel to self-generate torque necessary for the vehicle to make the turn.
Personally I don't need the SH-AWD but I know it is a popular option. I'm afraid without a lower priced TLX option there will be too much of a gap between the ILX and TLX. In fact I wouldn't mind seeing a 4-cyl option in keeping with the outgoing TSX. We don't all need V6 power but want some space and luxury features.
11-13-2012, 07:56 AM
#52
New 2014 Acura RLX Drivetrains Aim for Smiles
Read more: http://wot.motortrend.com/new-2014-a...#ixzz2C6wNVxKw
Read more: http://wot.motortrend.com/new-2014-a...#ixzz2C6wNVxKw
11-16-2012, 02:58 PM
#54
Intermediate
and I would like to see two features:
Adaptive Cruise Control ('13 Accord has that)
Rain sensing wipers
Last edited by avikban; 11-16-2012 at 03:08 PM.
11-16-2012, 04:02 PM
#55
11-16-2012, 06:14 PM
#56
Instructor
You guys have all heard about the TLX right?
It will be similar to the RLX - same option for the sport hybrid 370HP SH-AWD!! Same engine as the NSX
I heard this from the dealer when I took my car in for service a couple weeks ago.
It will be similar to the RLX - same option for the sport hybrid 370HP SH-AWD!! Same engine as the NSX
I heard this from the dealer when I took my car in for service a couple weeks ago.
11-16-2012, 07:31 PM
#57
6G TLX-S
^^^^^
If true, the RLX will, once again, fail big time, just like it's outgoing model.
This is the logic. DeJa Vu.
Why buy the RLX when you can get identical propulsion hardware in the TLX for thousands of dollars less ? It's just like history has repeated itself.
The RLX MUST have superior hardware than the TLX, in order to justify the multiple thousands of dollars extra in premium pricing.
If true, the RLX will, once again, fail big time, just like it's outgoing model.
This is the logic. DeJa Vu.
Why buy the RLX when you can get identical propulsion hardware in the TLX for thousands of dollars less ? It's just like history has repeated itself.
The RLX MUST have superior hardware than the TLX, in order to justify the multiple thousands of dollars extra in premium pricing.
11-17-2012, 12:08 PM
#58
Instructor
^^
I don't understand your point. The RLX is the large luxury version and the TLX is the sport ride for the guys that don't want to spend $50K+ for a car.
If you haven't checked out the new LED headlights, the new Nav system with dual screens including touch screen and all the other new stuff - go check it out.
I read a great write up in Acura's Style magazine released this past month.
I don't understand your point. The RLX is the large luxury version and the TLX is the sport ride for the guys that don't want to spend $50K+ for a car.
If you haven't checked out the new LED headlights, the new Nav system with dual screens including touch screen and all the other new stuff - go check it out.
I read a great write up in Acura's Style magazine released this past month.
11-17-2012, 01:46 PM
#59
6G TLX-S
^^
I don't understand your point. The RLX is the large luxury version and the TLX is the sport ride for the guys that don't want to spend $50K+ for a car.
If you haven't checked out the new LED headlights, the new Nav system with dual screens including touch screen and all the other new stuff - go check it out.
I read a great write up in Acura's Style magazine released this past month.
I don't understand your point. The RLX is the large luxury version and the TLX is the sport ride for the guys that don't want to spend $50K+ for a car.
If you haven't checked out the new LED headlights, the new Nav system with dual screens including touch screen and all the other new stuff - go check it out.
I read a great write up in Acura's Style magazine released this past month.
You said the upcoming TLX will share the same 370HP Sport-Hybrid-SH-AWD as the RLX. So if the TLX is a sport ride, then the RLX won't be anything less sporty.
I agree that the new RLX has all the fancy features than the current TL doesn't; but when the new TLX come out, do you really think that it won't inherit some of the similar features as the RLX ?
Car buyers are not stupid. Just as for the current RL/TL pair, buyers will find it hard to justify buying the RLX when for $10K less, they can get the TLX, that have the exact drivetrain, but with just less fancy features which are mostly gimmicks.
Take a good look at the current RL and TL pair. They share almost identical drivetrain, and the only difference is that the RL carries more fancy features and deems more luxury than the TL, but for $10K more in MSRP.
Needless to say. The current RL flops big time. See the similarity between the RL/TL and the future RLX/TLX, when they share the same drivetrain.
Thus the RLX must have the exclusive use of the most advance propulsion system (with the except of the NSX replacement) and not to be shared with any other lower Acura model lines, in order to maintain it's flagship superiority to justify the additional $10K in premium pricing.
11-17-2012, 06:32 PM
#61
The fact that the '13 Accord V6 sedan is not available with an MT gives me hope 6MT is still in the TLX product plans.
Reading about the hybrid AWD system has me concerned electric motor propulsion won't integrate very well with a 3 pedal transmission - best with continuous acceleration that a dual clutch automated gearbox or conventional AT gives you. I'm not saying it's impossible to integrate with an MT (maybe as simple as a switch on the clutch pedal that puts the motors in freewheel mode when the clutch is depressed), but probably not worth the development costs for the take rate of 6MT.
Therefore, if TLX offers MT, I think they will be looking at 3 potential low development cost (that's still business viable with a <5% take rate) options for what MT version to put in the market: 1) DI version of the current Accord V6 coupe engine/MT combo in fwd only - maybe with the rear steer system of the RLX fwd. 2) Continue to use the mechanical SH-AWD system with the new DI V6 for slightly better mpg, but not even close to the RLX hybrid. 3) Use a combination of #1 with the fwd torque vectoring system from the 3g TL-S.
#1 requires very little development cost - already done for the Accord V6 coupe which uses the same architecture as TLX. They may lose repeat buyers of 4G TL 6MT who loved rwd "simulation" offered by SH-AWD - but that's probably not much of a loss, offset by gain of 3G TL-S 6MT buyers holding out, or skipped the 4G, especially if they "fix" the looks and get the price point back where the 3g TL-S was.
#2 system is in production right now and the DI V6 soon will be - this is the option I'd prefer - but will only work for Honda IF the new Accord architecture already has provisions for the components of mechanical SH-AWD with 6MT - it would then have as low of development costs for TLX as option #1.
#3 is probably not going to happen since that system has been out of production since 2008, unless it's another sweetener to get 3G TL-S buyers back and they haven't thrown the tooling away.
With <5% take rate, I'm hopeful the bean counters will at least buy into one of the above options to offer an MT. If not, then at least offer the Accord Touring V6 with the Accord V6 coupe's 6MT option.
Reading about the hybrid AWD system has me concerned electric motor propulsion won't integrate very well with a 3 pedal transmission - best with continuous acceleration that a dual clutch automated gearbox or conventional AT gives you. I'm not saying it's impossible to integrate with an MT (maybe as simple as a switch on the clutch pedal that puts the motors in freewheel mode when the clutch is depressed), but probably not worth the development costs for the take rate of 6MT.
Therefore, if TLX offers MT, I think they will be looking at 3 potential low development cost (that's still business viable with a <5% take rate) options for what MT version to put in the market: 1) DI version of the current Accord V6 coupe engine/MT combo in fwd only - maybe with the rear steer system of the RLX fwd. 2) Continue to use the mechanical SH-AWD system with the new DI V6 for slightly better mpg, but not even close to the RLX hybrid. 3) Use a combination of #1 with the fwd torque vectoring system from the 3g TL-S.
#1 requires very little development cost - already done for the Accord V6 coupe which uses the same architecture as TLX. They may lose repeat buyers of 4G TL 6MT who loved rwd "simulation" offered by SH-AWD - but that's probably not much of a loss, offset by gain of 3G TL-S 6MT buyers holding out, or skipped the 4G, especially if they "fix" the looks and get the price point back where the 3g TL-S was.
#2 system is in production right now and the DI V6 soon will be - this is the option I'd prefer - but will only work for Honda IF the new Accord architecture already has provisions for the components of mechanical SH-AWD with 6MT - it would then have as low of development costs for TLX as option #1.
#3 is probably not going to happen since that system has been out of production since 2008, unless it's another sweetener to get 3G TL-S buyers back and they haven't thrown the tooling away.
With <5% take rate, I'm hopeful the bean counters will at least buy into one of the above options to offer an MT. If not, then at least offer the Accord Touring V6 with the Accord V6 coupe's 6MT option.
11-17-2012, 08:00 PM
#62
6G TLX-S
Back then, I was so excited to hear that Acura was developing a V8 RWD RL sedan, that I almost ran off to the dealership to place a deposit on one. Unfortunately, the car didn't materialize. Very disappointed indeed.
Early last year, the ticking-time-bomb 2G TL tranny finally showed signs of yet another failure and ran out of extended warranty. Needless to say I got rid of it in no time before the tranny really crapped out.
I bought the 4G MMC TL, because it was the best Acura sedan available at that time. I found it super hard to justify forking out another $10K just for some extra fancy features on the RL, that deemed unimportant and unnecessary to me.
However, if the RL had had the 3.7L-V6 SH-AWD and the TL didn't, then I would have bought the RL instead.
Therefore, if both the RLX and the TLX all share the same 370hp SH-SH-AWD mechanics but with a $10K price premium, I will make the exact same choice over and over again.
11-18-2012, 01:01 AM
#63
I also think that has pretty much been the major issue with the RL, that being the TL. The only differences now will at least be the size and tech distinctions, one being a mid and the other a full, and the RL having a clear tech advantage as opposed to only a few features, however it's still not that much of a difference so long as the primary hardware is still the same and to make matters worse, I'm not sure how a FWD RL fits into this. Can't wait to see what they have decided as far as these issues are concerned.
I'm all for the TL getting a revised mechanical SH and the new 3.5L. 20/30 mpg might not be out of the question which should be in line with their mpg goals, keeps flagship distinction for the RLX, and they could retain the 6MT much easier. I also think a 6MT will be difficult to combine with the new hybrid system, if at all and I don't see them developing anything new or too costly, and also seperately, for that low of a demand. I know I'm being selfish but I'd put money up for that right now if that was what it took.
I'm all for the TL getting a revised mechanical SH and the new 3.5L. 20/30 mpg might not be out of the question which should be in line with their mpg goals, keeps flagship distinction for the RLX, and they could retain the 6MT much easier. I also think a 6MT will be difficult to combine with the new hybrid system, if at all and I don't see them developing anything new or too costly, and also seperately, for that low of a demand. I know I'm being selfish but I'd put money up for that right now if that was what it took.
11-18-2012, 12:43 PM
#64
I'm going to the LA auto show. I'll let you know what I see.
11-25-2012, 03:32 PM
#66
6G TLX-S
^^^^^
Gas engine + motor assist = ~370hp.
Gas engine + motor assist = ~370hp.
11-25-2012, 05:28 PM
#67
Drifting
I drove a 6MT Accord EX yesterday. It felt "Acura-like" in many respects. Beautifully smooth powertrain (2.4 4 cyl.), very quiet and solid feeling, and of course the usually butter-like and precise Honda MT.
If this is indeed the base platform for the next gen TL(X), I think the 5G will bring a lot of smiles to the faces of Acura fans (and potential owners).
It's a hell of car for 25K. I can only imagine how nice the 5G will be at 35-45K.
If this is indeed the base platform for the next gen TL(X), I think the 5G will bring a lot of smiles to the faces of Acura fans (and potential owners).
It's a hell of car for 25K. I can only imagine how nice the 5G will be at 35-45K.
11-25-2012, 06:13 PM
#68
6G TLX-S
^^^^^
Provided that Acura don't screw up the exterior styling again !
Provided that Acura don't screw up the exterior styling again !
11-25-2012, 08:35 PM
#69
Senior Moderator
im putting down that much to the wheels and have awesome handling capability. Hell i can floor it with out my hands on the wheel and it drives straight. Acura with all the modern tech could easily put a engine making more power than that (290-310 crank SAE hp rating) in a FWD setup 
11-25-2012, 09:20 PM
#70
6G TLX-S
How about flooring it when the steering wheel is not pointing straight, such as powering out of a tight corner ?
11-26-2012, 09:29 AM
#71
Senior Moderator
11-26-2012, 06:53 PM
#73
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC - USA
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& a dyno sheet would be nice.
11-26-2012, 07:25 PM
#74
I think the torque and it's character will allows it remain suitable for a FWD setup. I don't think that an extra 20 hp, probably mostly available at the top of the rev range is going to make too much of a difference.
The Honda NA engine, especially a J series, typically builds up torque late and also sustains most of it throughout, as opposed to it all being readily available and then dropping off, where FWD presents much more of an issue.
The Honda NA engine, especially a J series, typically builds up torque late and also sustains most of it throughout, as opposed to it all being readily available and then dropping off, where FWD presents much more of an issue.
11-26-2012, 07:59 PM
#75
I heard they are going to make the front overhang look like this....That would be great because this car had virtually no overhang *lol*
11-28-2012, 12:20 PM
#78
Instructor
The reason the RL doesn't sell is because it is not competitive with the other cars in its class. The n/a v6 does not get it done when for less money you can get a Genesis sedan with 400+ hp and not that big a penalty in mileage.
For the price the RL needs to have more rear seat room, more gagets and 400+ hp. I believe that the most cost effective way for Honda to do this would be to turbo the 3.5.
I'd rather have a Honda product than a Hyundai, but the only way I'd take a current RL would be as a gift and then I probably wouldn't keep it.
For the price the RL needs to have more rear seat room, more gagets and 400+ hp. I believe that the most cost effective way for Honda to do this would be to turbo the 3.5.
I'd rather have a Honda product than a Hyundai, but the only way I'd take a current RL would be as a gift and then I probably wouldn't keep it.
11-28-2012, 01:00 PM
#79
Senior Moderator
Start about 2:30 in. (it was 35 deg on this day and track was very slippery). This is a tight technical little course where there is a lot of WOT coming out of slow corners, There was no fighting or tugging of the wheel (not that you can really see much from the video, but im not fighting it at all)
Here is a behind shot of 2 laps
here is one just showing the traction issues when floored, no wheel tugging or pulling.
Here is a behind shot of 2 laps
here is one just showing the traction issues when floored, no wheel tugging or pulling.
Last edited by fsttyms1; 11-28-2012 at 03:16 PM.
11-28-2012, 01:22 PM
#80
Mademoiselle Chanel!!
I might be in the minority on this but it took nearly the final production run of the 3G TL before I liked the looks. It actually evolved into a nice looking car, before it reminded me of Thunderbird SC.