KJ TL-S

iTrader: (9)

So it was a little over a year ago I first thought about this...and now I'm back again.

I've had my 2007 Type S for over 3 years now, and its been fantastic. I really made it my own and love how it turned out. It's only at just under 60K right now, but has been rock solid reliability-wise.

If I upgraded to a 4G, it would be an 09-11 SH-AWD as I only like the lip kit on those years, both front and back, and probably another auto since my wife can't drive stick and they are near impossible to find anyway in the 6MT. If the right one came along though, I would certainly fight the good fight in trying to get it ok'ed.

So one of my concerns about this is the long-term reliability of these cars. I am confident I could put another 100K on my Type S without much worry of major issues. However, when I started researching these 4Gs, I noticed Torque Converter issues on the Autos and Clutch issues on the 6MT. The TC issue seems to be pretty widespread and also covered under warranty, but, if I ended up with a low-mileage 09 for example, I'd probably be at the end of warranty period anyway. Are there any other big issues that I haven't seen yet?

Also, I could never leave the car stock either. My plan would be to take it somewhere along the lines of where Erin's 4G Grigio is, or Anton's in his rebuild thread. Love both those cars and that color. Would be looking at: lip kit (if i don't find one with it on already), grill and rear trim painted, JNC headlights, blacked-out foglight trim, drop and spacers, transferring all my front bulbs/LEDs over, tinting windows and rear reflectors, moving my JL 10W6 over...I'm sure there's more, but that seems like a good start.

Oh yeah, link to my progress thread is at the end of my sig too, for anyone interested. Here is a quick couple pictures too:

DSC04070 by KJ TL-S, on Flickr

DSC03834 by KJ TL-S, on Flickr

2012wagon

No offense, but at 60K only miles, and as good as your car looks, I would keep it.


If you want something new, totally understand, as many of us have car ADD. However, I would get something completely different.

TacoBello

I'm with Wagon on this one. The 4Gs are also notorious for bad oil consumption. I HATE oil consumption. Makes me think I have an engine about to fail (even though it will still run for 200k). Makes me wonder though, if oil is getting past the rings i wonder if there is also a loss of compression.

What I do know is that the engine in your Type S is bullet proof. And the car overall is much better looking. Hey, if you like downgrading, no one is going to hold you back, but you have a lot more to lose than gain. I think there is only a very very small number of people who would consider ditching a low mileage 3G Type S for the hideous monstrosity of a 4G. But then again, I've seen crazier shit happen.

TacoBello

Where's the offensive part?

2012wagon

^
Agree with you.


My pet peeves:
1) Oil consumption
2) Passengers who close doors by putting finger on window
3) People who put luggage in car while scraping the bumper


I will not own a car, the minute it starts burning oil.

VanyDotK

iTrader: (6)

As someone that went from a 08 TL-S to a 13 TL 6MT, I would prefer my 08 TL-S. Don't get me wrong, love my current car but I still think the 3G looks better. I would have driven my 3G until it died if insurance didn't total it out.

Btw your 3G looks great.

amill

Clutch issues? Afaik, one guy had a clutch issue on this board.

NBP04TL4ME

3G TL Type S and you have had it for three years. Scratch the itch and keep it!!!! 60K is nothing and in my opinion 3G>4G.

Be smart and keep the Type S

KJ TL-S

iTrader: (9)

Thanks for the compliments guys. Its certainly been fun getting that car to where it is. And mileage has nothing to do with getting rid of the Type S, I certainly understand that it is still a baby and will go a long, long time still.

Reasons for looking include:
1) Bigger size would be nice with family growth coming up
2) Love that SH-AWD
3) I have good uses for the equity I could take out of the TL
4) As was mentioned, Car ADD and the fact that I've spent about 7 total years driving 3G TLs
5) As apparently shocking as it may be, I actually like the looks of a modded 4G. I thought that would be a little more well received in the 4G forum...but maybe not.

I would agree that stock they look pretty rough. However, that 09-11 lip kit really looks nice, especially with some quads, lowered a little, and painted grill. Its shocking to me how much that transforms the car, as seen in this post from Erin's thread:












[/QUOTE]

I'm still very much up in the air on this one, but I think I come back to this car over others is that the others just scare me too much to own. I actually test drove an 07 S8, and it was fantastic. Research showed me that its actually more reliable that people expect, but the occasional repair bills can still be just too high for me to sleep comfortably. Same with comparable BMWs, just too scared off by runnings costs. Acuras just seem to be so much longer-lasting at the expense of lesser driving enjoyment and interior-quality. I figure until I'm okay with the running costs of those vehicles, the Acuras are a good trade-off.

Sorry for the long-winded post, just trying to get my thoughts organized for my own benefit as much as anything I guess. And thanks for the opinions so far, interested to see how more people feel about the switch.

SilverJ

I do think that the 3G TLS stock is better looking than the stock 4G, but I feel with a few tasteful mods the 4G looks pretty damn nice.
3G TL/TLS is a great car, but the 4G is no slouch and it unquestionably has a much better interior and AWD as well.

SilverJ

delete

jterp7

that is one clean TypeS. The shawd makes a huge difference..but the car doesn't feel as lively due to the obvious weight difference and drivetrain "lag" (awd/AT + software logic). The 6MT allegedly hides this better...so I'd look for that if you end up replacing your TypeS.

SilverJ

no doubt. After driving a 4G auto SH-AWD, I came away thinking, "that car will NEVER replace my TL-S manual.", after driving a 4G Manual 4G TL I completely changed my mind. The Six speed manual/SH-AWD combo is lethal.

2012wagon

^^
How difficult is the 4G TL SH AWD Manual combo to find?

jterp7

mostly because it wasnt built in high quantity to begin with and dealers typically hold the line with them, as compared to the infinite amount of tech shawds out there for the AT version. Cargurus has 17 MTs vs over 500 AT tech pkg shawds

2012wagon

Thank you!


Is there a way to tell which is MT from the outside? Any visual differences?

Steven Bell

iTrader: (2)

Brother, you've got SO many years (and miles) left on her.

SilverJ

Very. And dealers don't budge on the pricing much because they know they have unicorns. There is easily a 2000.00 premium on the manuals over the automatics. If not more.

KJ TL-S

iTrader: (9)

Steven Bell, right you are. I could absolutely drive this another 6 or 7 years With barely more than a timing belt job and probably a new starter.

Question is, could I do the same with a 4G? Will it run all the way up to 150k+ without major problems? once modestly modded i think they really do look nice and modern. I'm just not sure if they have the reliable longevity that the 3g has.

Also - can anyone comment on the driving experience variance between an auto Type S to an auto SHAWD? My performance mods are very minor, just j pipe, rear sway bar, and coilovers in terms of things that would affect how it drives.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

IMHO the 4G is a solid vehicle and you'll be fine with it to 150k miles and beyond.

MikeTL92

I purchased my TL with 40k miles and now I'm at 82k in two years, solid car, handles great and if you purchase personally i think you won't regret it at all. If you are looking into an SH-awd the driving experience is awesome. BTW i own a 09 AT SH-awd. I have a friend in my area in CT that has his 4G at 135k without even replacing the TC and he purchased his off the lot in 2008. Some tasteful mods and you will be golden.

Nexx

other than the looks, the 3g is garbage imho. 4g is so much better and with the right mods can look just as good if not better than the 3g. ive owned two 3gs, 07 base and 07 type-s. ive driven quite a few 4gs. sold the sold the type-s after 3 months of ownership for a 2010 RL.

2012wagon

Best solution to this thread and OP. Just get an RL

jterp7

you have the rear differential fluid change added due to the SHAWD system, but almost nothing changes beyond that. Due to the way the shawd system works you will want at least decent performance allseasons or summers if you want to maximize the system. From a stop the 3G may be slightly better due to drivetrain lag (you cannot brake tq the SHAWD..it just starts in 2nd), but midrange the 4G punches quite hard in AT, let alone in MT form. There's the usual j pipe and intake exhaust mods, but unfortunately as you know Hondata decided not to offer a reflash for the 3.7 which is a shame. Here's a j pipe vid I just found

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

not to sure why you think the 4G is unreliable when it uses the same exact engine.....

EVERYTHING is very similar to the 3G in terms of mechanical aspects.

clutches are wear and tear items...meaning if you fuck that shit up, its on the driver....not the car.

it uses the same double wish bone suspension.

yada yada yada....

basically its just as reliable as your 3G

012TL-GLM

The 4G is an excellent vehicle and I would expect will last just as long as previous generations.

As for driving experience compared to your current ride you will be giving up the stick so even though the 6spd auto and SH-AWD make for a great drive you will probably miss rowing your own gears.

I have a '12 SH-AWD with 34K on the odo, only issue to date was the loud propeller shaft fixed under warranty. No oil consumption issues, and the car is an absolute joy to drive. I hope to keep her at least 10 years.

Your car looks great and if you still love her but have the growing family just pick up a lightly used MDX, that's what we did

KJ TL-S

iTrader: (9)

So I definitely never had reason to believe that it would be an unreliable car, nor did I assume it was. I just didn’t know enough about this generation yet to know one way or the other. It’s good to hear that the mechanics apart from the AWD are very similar. I had a feeling that the engine was similar to my 3.5 and that the 5AT was likely the exact same. I guess the biggest unknown to me was the AWD system, but it sounds like that doesn’t add any problems at all, at least none that I’ve seen mentioned. Oh, and the clutch thing I only mentioned because I was reading a thread with multiple people claiming clutch problems at extremely low-mileage who claimed to have driven stick for many years. As in, I think people had issues at under 10K miles or something like that.

I wouldn’t really plan on adding anything performance-wise. The only reason I ended up with the J pipe on the Type S is that there was a good deal on one local, so it was easy. Even if something like that came along again, I probably wouldn’t even bother.

Oh, and to clarify, my Type S is a 5AT, and I would be switching to a 5AT assuming I went with an automatic since I’d be looking at 09-11 only. I can only assume that driving dynamics would be improved if only because SH-AWD > FWD.

Who knows. I need to go test drive one again, its been awhile. One thing I already know I don’t love about them is the light steering compared to the fantastically-weighted (IMO) steering of the Type S.

hadokenuh

I have a 4G but I would keep your 3G.

2012wagon

Is that a backhanded way of saying, not very reliable?

jterp7

KJ - imo the pre mmc 4G MTs are a terrible deal since the mmc ones are only 2-3k more. That said the RJ beak fix and oem body kit on the pre mmc makes for a very aggressive look. I saw a white one of this example in the photo section.

2012wagon

Interesting that 4G owners are telling you to keep your 3G

KJ TL-S

iTrader: (9)

The entire reason I like the 09-11 is because of the aggressive look of the lip kit and painted/RJ grill, like the one I posted pictures of. The mmc models, while having the nice 6AT, just don't do it for me due to their more rounded look and shoulderpad style lip kit.

Haha, I thought the exact same thing. At first I thought I had put the thread in the 3G section...

asianspec

iTrader: (1)

Why stop at the 4g?

SilverJ

that is interesting.
3G is a great car, but IMO it looks a little dated. And again, stock the 3G is better looking but I would give the edge to the 4G with some tasteful mods. No matter how many mods you put on the 3G, its still going to look like an older car IMO.

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

We here at Heeltoe just picked up a 6MT TL-S. This car is awesome. Now, I know the 4g is awesome as well, and that there is a lot more tech and a lot more power...but there is a lot more SIZE as well. I personally feel that the 2004-08 was a sort of "peak" at Acura. In 2007 we had two AMAZING sedans and two AMAZING suvs to choose from. After 2009-12 things felt like they got a little...flabby.

I would not turn down a chance at a 6MT SH-AWD TL, but I have now a 2004 TSX, 2007 TL-S, and a 2007 MDX Sport...Best of all worlds. I don't think I'd give up two of those rides to get one 4G TL SH-AWD.

Steven Bell

iTrader: (2)

Go 5G!

KJ TL-S

iTrader: (9)

So you're saying 2007 was the peak, and 2009 was the beak???

Haha, I'd agree with most of that. It definitely became a bigger car. I really need to drive one again to see how I feel about it. I do know that the mods would make me like the looks of it - but whether I would like it any more than the TL-S...I'm not sure. I wish a 6MT would pop up around here so I could at least test drive one.

Haha, that's not going to happen. A big selling point of these pre-mmc 4Gs is that the prices have gotten so reasonable - $45K cars selling for half that a few years later.

liquidneon

I can't speak for the AUTOs, but my best friend has an 08 TL-S and I have a 2010 SHAWD... both are 6MT. the 4G is A LOT more fun to drive, we both agreed due to the AWD. the technology by comparison also adds a crap load of features to make your every day drive more enjoyable. If you can find a 6MT - I'd get on it.

SilverJ

Its definitely more fun, and for me at least, the only way to fly (6MT) as that's all I have ever driven. But I do also think it depends on your driving habits and general use for the car. I have an MDX that I would never want to be a manual.
For that, I enjoy the auto very much. For my cars, I like a little more sportiness because I generally drive alone or with one other person. Manuals are annoying to everyone but the driver.

KJ TL-S

iTrader: (9)

Haha, well said right there.