Has anyone test driven the new Genesis back to back with a FWD TL? I've only heard positives about the Genesis and for a full loaded v6 price is around $38K similar to a 2009 Acura TL FWD Nav while having more interior room some other features. I have been driving Honda's for the past 20+ years so this might be the first time I leave the brand. Any reasons why I should get the FWD Tl? Owners feel free to chime in. Thanks

 

Hello!

What you need to decide is what exactly do you want or need. Do you live in a climate with a lot of snow? If so that narrows your choices down to TL or ES, because FWD handles much better in the snow than RWD. Then you have to choose if you want more comfortable posh luxury (ES) or more rugged sporty yet still comfortable luxury (TL). Out of the 3 you really can't go wrong. All 3 are said to be reliable (by CR), and they all are good values for they're respective segments

 

I did NOT do a back-to-back TL vs. Genesis drive, but I have heard many good things about the Genesis.

Choices for me worked out like this...

Lexus ES -- not for me, maybe my dad, but too soft/cushy/older crowd-ish for me.

Genesis -- nice, safe Mercedes-imitation-looking front/exterior, interior not as nice as I'd like.

Audi A4 -- not in your list, but closest competitor for me with the TL after many months of driving and comparing... gorgeous exterior and interior, although the interior was a bit old school in the layout, but loved the seats & materials... drive too hard with the 19" S-line pack though, and price too high in the end.

TL -- best overall, AWD makes you want to throw it around curves, interior great, seats great, exterior edgy/futuristic and growing on most people.

To me, the TL doesn't compare as directly with the Genesis and ES... if you're focused on comparing with those 2, I'm guessing the TL won't "win" as they're both a bit different in direction than the TL.

Good luck and enjoy the shopping!

 

Nowdays, you can get a loaded FWD TL Tech for less than $35K...cheaper than a loaded Genesis V6 or a Lexus ES. Avoid the Lexus ES....it's a competent car but the image of that car is ruined by the fact that it's become the "official" car of grannys everywhere. Best bet is to test-drive as many cars that interests you. BTW, I would add the Cadillac CTS (closest competitor to the TL in my opinion) to that list along with the Infiniti G37, Audi A4, BMW 3 series, VW Passat CC, and Volvo S60.

 

I drove a 4G TL with Tech for about 3 days and drove it right to the Hyundai dealer to also drive a Genesis. What I found was the Genesis was a much more comfort oriented car. The seats were more plush, the ride smoother and the interior much quieter.

The 4GTL steered more sharper and felt a bit more responsive. Overall I felt it was more fun to drive.

The Genesis interior IMO is superior however. Less confusing, better appointments, more classy.

What stopped me from getting a Genesis was the crappy bluetooth that looked like it was bought at Walmart and slapped onto the ceiling as an afterthought. Its not even part of the audio system. Big mistake.

In order to get Bluetooth integrated into the audio system and get XENON headlights, you have to get the car fully loaded which is around $40k in the V6 model. Too pricey and not enough sport for me.

I wound up buying a used 3G TL Type S instead since I couldn't stand all the buttons in the 4GTL and the exterior styling. Hope I don't offend 4G owners here.

 

OK I was cross shopping 4G TL AWD, vs. Genesis 3.8 Tech vs. G37 vs. G35 Sedans and dorve each car numerous times and for lengthy trips. I have not driven an ES350, but did look at a EsS330 a few years back. I woudl gather the Lexus is the softest and cushionest of the bunch. The ES was truly like being in a cacoon with no road feel or feed back. I also feel Lexus is the least value for the dolloar, although they do hold decent resale value. The Genesis is an unbelievable car with great fit and finish and the styling is great. It is virtually the same size as a 4G TL, about an inch bigger in each direction. The Genesis ride is very good, but needs some seriosu refinement, I agree with Consumer Reports when they say it is unsettled. The back feels jittery at times. It hanlde better than the ES330. It is fairly responsive in the steering and provides adequate road feel and feedback, but nothing like the TL or G37. The NAV int he Genesis is equal to the TL in picture quality, but the TL is a little more user friendly, although the Genesis did some things better than the TL Nav. The place where for me the Genesis falls apart is the seats, they are barely buckets in my mind, I felt they provided weaks lateral support and poor back and lumbar, even with the multi directional support. The seating is aiming for the Crown Vis. Buick crowd in my opinion and coupls that with the jittery rear suspension and I had to walk away. I drove once for 2 days and about 150 miles all around town and my normals drives. If they can improve the suspension and the seats, maybe offer a sport model then I could easily see getting one. It was very well executed, although the 4G TL materials are better. The Genesis Lexison is has pros and cons compared to the TL ELS and theire I-Drive controller is well executed as well. If Acura woudl clean up the clutter of buttons on the center stack and make it also more classey instead of cheap looking I would say give that to Acura, but the Genesis is a great car, it has 290HP in the V6 with a 6 SPD Auto that used Regular gas and gets decent MPG. In the end ride is what I buy a car for and after owning 2 3G Type-S TLs I could not do a Genesis and while i prefer the styling of the Genesis over the TL when I drive my TL I love it. The G Sedan is a great car, but if is tight inside and it's technology is lagging comapred to the TL and the Genesis. Both the TL and Genesis let you fully use the NAV while driving, the G does not. The G SOW Sound System is good, but not in the same league as the TL or Genesis. The G is a pure driving machine with a few frills added, aimed directly at the BMW 3 audience. If the AWD TL did nto exisit I woudl easily be in a Genesis as I find the FWD 4G TL steering too sensitive and over boosted with less feedback and road feel than the AWD. The varilable here is Hyundai, the dealer expiereicne is totally different than Acura. Also with Hyundai the loaner car is ONLY from the SELLING dealer, so if you take your Genesis to another dealer you are not likely to get a loaner. Also the Hyndai has some limitatons on its warranty, I belevioe the Electronics are only warratied 3/36 vs. the 5/50 on the bumper to bumper and 10/100 power train. Once Hyundai flushes all that out to compete with the major luxury/near luxury brands they will be a force to be reckoned with.

 

Who's to say you can't get ES or Genesis for those prices (or even less)? I bought my Lexus GS350 AWD for 10K below sticker. In this economy anything is possible.


That's a very subjective thing to say. The majority of ESs I see are driven by upper midclass families (it's a high end Camry after all). Old people drive Linclons, Buicks, and Mercuries (any big car for that matter).

 

True, but then a Genesis Tech at 40K is on par witha 4G TL Tech at $39+K

 

4G Acura TL, Genesis, and Lexus ES are all boring, older people's cars IMO. None of these cars are fun to drive. The Lexus ES reminds me too much of a Camry. The TL kind of looks like a sporty car, but doesnt have the performance to complement the looks. And with the looks.. I cant wait to get it modified or traded-in.. For me, the Genesis wins in this category. I cant seem to find anything wrong with it.

 

One word of an advice from me who used to own an 07 ES 350. Worst car ever!!! Very boring to drive and never ending tranny issues. I have driven hondas/acuras all my life and all of sudden I told myself to "upgrade" to Lexus. So I bought the ES, it was fun for like a day, then I got so sick of it because of the HUGE delay response from the throttle. Needless to say, I took the lost and got myself a TLS. So much happier.

 

As the owner of an '07 ES350 I can echo that sentiment. It's comfortable enough straight ahead but it handles horribly and, like you said, the linkage between the tranny and the engine is abysmal. You get used to it, but when you get into a car with a decent transmission with real "right now" linkage, you really remember what you're missing. Intersting sidebar abouit the ES350 -- for such a boulevardier cruiser, the front seats are not at all comfortable, especially on long trips. I realize that front seat comfort is a pretty subjective thing but I've heard the same complaint from many, many people. At the same time, I've heard nothing but accolades about the 4g TL's front seats, especially the FWD ones (the AWD seats are too aggressively bolstered). I'm getting my car this Sat. I can't wait!

 

I think this is a no-brainer.... if you want a sporty and flashy looking car, then get the TL. If you want to have lots of features at a relatively low price, but you don't car about your image, then go for the Genesis. If you want to fall asleep while driving, then go for the ES 350...

 

Well apparently you haven't driven the SH-AWD TL, because as a former BMW 545i owner, I can tell you this car handles just as well. The SH-AWD TL will runs rings around the ES350 or Genesis on any given day, esp. when the weather runs foul. Sure, the TL is not a dragster like the smaller 335i but acceleration is pretty decent for a car this big. The Genesis is a great bargain and a comfortable family sedan, but a sports sedan it's not.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself lol.

There's really no comparison between the three my friend. Now, if you were talking G35x vs TL, that's a little closer, IMO.

 

KeithL,

How were you able to get extended use of the 3 cars ? I am not able to do that with rental car companies in the NYC area.

New car dealers rentals in your area ?

 

I test drove the SH-AWD, and there was just a bunch of sports features in a boring car. Im not saying the FWD is any better, but they both feel like tractors to me. I agree that the handling of SH-AWD is excellent, but I think it would be more appropriate for a MT turbocharged 2.4L TSX or a supercharged MT TL. It would be great if those
two imaginary cars were RWD, but I dont think Honda has the technology to make
it cost effective.
The TL has good interior at a cheap price (minus the annoying rattling), but I would
choose the Genesis if I wasnt going to get the performance anyways.

If I was going for performance, I would go for 335i or G37. Both will run circles around
the 4G TL.

 

I have bought 5 3G TLs so my Acura dealer let me take 4G TL AWD out several times for an hour or more each time, also had a FWD 4G TL as a loaner for 2 days while they were trying to quiet my back deck in my 3G.

As for the Genesis I lucked out, I went o look at one was going to lease one and they scratched it taking it out of the showroom, so they begged me to wait until they fixed it until I decide and gave me a Genesis as a loaner for 2 days. Like I saisd though, if the seats were more supportive and the ride less jittery I woudl likely be in a Genesis as I love the styling over the 4G TL. But coming from a Type-S the AWD TL is awesome. The Genesis for me was going to be low risk as I was going to doa 27 month lease, they had a special running in January and Februrary making 27 month lease very attractive. I don't know if I woudl have done it if it were a 39 month lease like my AWD TL is. The TL while now the most attractive car, I know I can live with it for 39 months.

I opted NOT to buy a 4G TL becasue I was nervous abotu resale with the polarizing styling. I sold my 3G TLs easily, not sure the same will be said for a 4G. Same for a Genesis, the resale risk to me was too high, so if I went 4G AWD or Genesis they would be leases, the only car I considered out right buying was G37 as it has decent resale and is a desirable car in the resale market.

 

One other note, Hynudai dealers are usually extremely accomidating and maye let you borrow their loaner Genesis for a few hours or over night, htye beleive it you get used to it you'll buy it. Go talk to a sales manger at a Hyundai dealership and explain you really are interested, but really need an extended test drive and see what they say. Hell even an Acura dealer should be just as accomidating in these tough times.

 

I would not be interested in the Lexus ES. It is a Camry clone and boring. Genesis is great bang for your buck but resale will likely be an issue. how long will you hold onto the car? Also, why not go for an 06 RL? Great price, features, AWD, and an attractive car.

 

lol exactly what i was thinking

 

i would probably go with this (even though it isnt on your list):

 

The ES is the same as the TL (rebadged family car ), so there is no reason NOT to consider it. The ES is a very good luxury sedan and drives almost as well as a more expensive flagship luxury sedan. The TL is good for those that want a sportier ride but it's interior is NOT as luxurious as ES or Genesis. The Genesis is an awesome car, but it's not a true luxury car, and it's RWD, which can be a problem in the snow.

Looking at the choices the OP has come down to, it sounds like he wants a softer cushier ride, which the the ES will provide him the best.

 

I extensively cross shopped G37/35 vs. TL and came close to G, but in the end the tech was not in same league, the car is a bit tight on the interior and the road noise was more than I thinks shoudl be expected from this class of car. It did launch like a rocket.

 

If you have such a negative view of the 4G TL, why the heck did you get one?

As far as straight-line acceleration, the 335i and G37 are indeed quicker than the 4G. However, Acura showed not too long ago that a 6MT SH-AWD TL out-ran both cars on a track course. As far as cornering and grip, the SH-AWD TL is more than match for either car.

 

Hey Pete, you got a link for that? I'd like to read it.

 

Unfortunately I don't.....I've read something here about that back in Sept/Oct and it was a hot topic.......I'm sure some forum member here can pull that back out.

 

http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-ar...icle_id=789695

 

Several mags also participated in that driving event, namely Car and Driver, Motor Trend, and Road & Track, just check out their web sites.

 

I made a really bad decision and my decision was based on price.

I agree the handling of the sh-awd is probably one of the best handling
cars on the market, but most of our driving is on straight-lines and 1/4 miles
are straight lines as well.

 

It sounds like an American car or a Lexus would suit your needs well. Very good straight line speed, but not much in the way of handling prowess.

 

Infiniti or BMW, sounds more like what he's looking for

 

Well he seems to be a price shopper so that may be out of the question. If he just wants some grunt at a cheap price, I think a Mustang GT should fit the bill.

 

I would have gone with the Genesis over the TL FWD. You can play DVDs and it had a better speaker system. Probably best out of all the cars I've test drove. The GUI interface is slightly better than the TL's Navi but it lacked voice commands that are easily done on the TL.

 

If you could, I'll suggest you go with 4G TL SH-AWD.
You won't regret it...

Even though, I still prefer my 3G TL Type-S design, but, if Acura had introduce SH-AWD on 3G TL, I wouldn't trade for anything....

Go test drive TL SH-AWD and you'll know what I'm talking about.

I had the TL SH-AWD for over 10 days...

 

+1

 

Between the TL SH-AWD the Genesis or the ES, I'd pick the TL. You can get a SH-AWD with Tech for sub 40K. The ES screams retirement. Although the Genesis is a very nice car, I think Hyundai's brand is still too unproven. It's a bit generic.

Maybe I am just shalow but I'd get anoyed at saying I know it's a Hyundai but it's a great car. I know that Acura is not in the same league as the Germans or Lexus but at least people know it's made by Honda, and Honda has a rock solid reputation. There's no shame for me if someone says an Acura is just a gussied up Accord. I'd say proudly I know and agree!

 

He said that he wants a car with fast 1/4 times, but implied that he doesn't care much about handling. In that case, why pay the price premium for BMW handling?

 

Im not really into American muscle, but if I was, I would've went with the Shelby.

I thought the economy would get worse, so I became a price shopper, but thanks
to people like me, Acura actually sold some 4Gs.

By the ways, whatever happened to the original poster? What are you looking for
in a car?

 

Yet more subjective sensationalism .

#1
We're comparing FWD TL with Genesis and ES no the AWD version.

#2
We don't know if the OP wants a sporty ride (by his choices, I think not)



The ES is not a retirement car. The Lincoln Town Car/Grand Marquais , but no the Lexus ES. It attracts the same buyers as the TL (people in their 30s-40s).

Comparing the FWD TL with ES, I think the ES wins because it has a softer quieter ride and more luxurious interior (check sales of ES versus TL).

The Genesis is a good car with a good interior, but it's not a luxury car.

 

Why is a loaded Genesis not a luxury car?