Acura TL sales for 11/2009 = 2,059
12-03-2009, 03:35 PM
#41
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Even at its higher price the TL is still a decent value, not as much as the 3G was. The build quality is up huge, but in the end you need to get people in to drive the car and the styling is hurting getting people in. Now at least in Novemebr the G did not pants it, but then that car is in it's 3 year. I wonder if the MMC might get moved forward a year to 2011 to help correct some of this, figire add the 6 SPD Auto a redesigned nose and some other goodies and they may be able to salvage the 4G.
12-03-2009, 05:27 PM
#42
Racer
And sorry Technocat, I don't mean to call you out or anything unpleasant but I see you take every opportunity to complain the TL compared to it's german «rivals», even if they are priced 15-20kCDN higher (in my province at least, YMMV since you're in the US).
What I would like to know is why the SH-AWD system is lousy when Audi is copying it...(«copying» being used as a relative term, you can call it «inspired» if you want...)
What I would like to know is why the SH-AWD system is lousy when Audi is copying it...(«copying» being used as a relative term, you can call it «inspired» if you want...)
I think the differences here are that not many other posters here have come directly from Audis, and that I'm talking real-world, not race-track driving (which I have Audi but not TL experience in.) Here is the difference:
- The Audi A4/S4/S5 use a Torsen center differential that always splits torque to the rear. Not quite evenly, but it's always going to both axels.
- I've had Audis for over 13 years, including an S4. A real (and intended) effect of this split is that there is no torque steer and no wheel chirp from the front.
- The SH-AWD system claims to split torque between front and rear, but on fast starts on slippery surfaces you can tell it doesn't; I get both a bit (maybe 1/2 to 1 second) of slippage and torque steer initially.
- The Audi Haldex differential also doesn't impress me, so it's not a case of bashing SH-AWD so much as being frustrated that it's not as good (at starts) as Torsen-based Quattro.
12-03-2009, 05:39 PM
#43
Racer
No comment on the tranny, but there's nothing wrong with a Honda SOHC. It's a 24V engine, just like the DOHC BMW 2979cc in-line 6 cylinder turbo-charged 335 engine.
12-03-2009, 06:41 PM
#44
Pro
No problem; I don't identify through my cars. That what my guns are for.
I think the differences here are that not many other posters here have come directly from Audis, and that I'm talking real-world, not race-track driving (which I have Audi but not TL experience in.) Here is the difference:
I think the differences here are that not many other posters here have come directly from Audis, and that I'm talking real-world, not race-track driving (which I have Audi but not TL experience in.) Here is the difference:
- The Audi A4/S4/S5 use a Torsen center differential that always splits torque to the rear. Not quite evenly, but it's always going to both axels.
- I've had Audis for over 13 years, including an S4. A real (and intended) effect of this split is that there is no torque steer and no wheel chirp from the front.
- The SH-AWD system claims to split torque between front and rear, but on fast starts on slippery surfaces you can tell it doesn't; I get both a bit (maybe 1/2 to 1 second) of slippage and torque steer initially.
- The Audi Haldex differential also doesn't impress me, so it's not a case of bashing SH-AWD so much as being frustrated that it's not as good (at starts) as Torsen-based Quattro.
Thanks for your explaination!
12-03-2009, 07:05 PM
#45
2010 TL AWD 6MT: New King
No problem; I don't identify through my cars. That what my guns are for.
I think the differences here are that not many other posters here have come directly from Audis, and that I'm talking real-world, not race-track driving (which I have Audi but not TL experience in.) Here is the difference:
I think the differences here are that not many other posters here have come directly from Audis, and that I'm talking real-world, not race-track driving (which I have Audi but not TL experience in.) Here is the difference:
- The Audi A4/S4/S5 use a Torsen center differential that always splits torque to the rear. Not quite evenly, but it's always going to both axels.
- I've had Audis for over 13 years, including an S4. A real (and intended) effect of this split is that there is no torque steer and no wheel chirp from the front.
- The SH-AWD system claims to split torque between front and rear, but on fast starts on slippery surfaces you can tell it doesn't; I get both a bit (maybe 1/2 to 1 second) of slippage and torque steer initially.
- The Audi Haldex differential also doesn't impress me, so it's not a case of bashing SH-AWD so much as being frustrated that it's not as good (at starts) as Torsen-based Quattro.
I test drove a 08 MDX w/SH-AWD (w/all seasons) last year in unpaved snow/ice in the city and backroads. I was quite impressed with the AWD system, felt very stable and secure. Slipped once or twice but it kept going in a straight line. Felt more sure footed than my wife's RX330 AWD.
With the MDX, I was able to climb up and down unpaved snow hills, but I recall according to the sales guy to gently throttle the MDX "up the hill and go." And up (and down) it went, never slipping during my hilly adventures. I sure as heck was not able to do that with my old 1G TSX.
I test drove a B8 A4 a few times, but was never able to on the snow/ice; sales guy claimed slippage was not possible with Quattro.
Given my positive experience with the MDX (considering the TL's SH-AWD system is based on that of the MDX) on the snow, I'm hoping for the same sure footed traction, or I'm going to be disappointed.
12-05-2009, 09:45 AM
#46
The V6 TSX is produced in very small quantities so it most likely has very little effect on overall TL sales. The TSX in general is selling better than the TL most likely due to the lower cost and also due to a more conservative styling.
It's really gotta be very disappointing for Acura. I mean the TL is such a great value, not to mention tops in its class as far as resale value, safety and reliability. What's really hurting TL sales is obviously the economy as well as stiffer competion but more importantly polarizing styling. I can understand Acura tried to make the 4G stand apart from the crowd, but public sentiment is very difficult to guage and predict. Acura took a big gamble here and so far they're losing.
It's really gotta be very disappointing for Acura. I mean the TL is such a great value, not to mention tops in its class as far as resale value, safety and reliability. What's really hurting TL sales is obviously the economy as well as stiffer competion but more importantly polarizing styling. I can understand Acura tried to make the 4G stand apart from the crowd, but public sentiment is very difficult to guage and predict. Acura took a big gamble here and so far they're losing.
Pete I don't want you to think I am attacking you since I usually respond to your post, it just that most of the time you get right to the point and I know as a former BMW driver you are not biased to Acura.
12-05-2009, 09:50 AM
#47
12-05-2009, 10:00 AM
#48
Never drove an Audi but considering they are FWD based also not sure how much different the launch would be from the TL and I feel absolutely no torquesteer in my car, of course if you hit wet leaves or ice this will happen but on dry no way.
12-05-2009, 11:19 AM
#49
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Class comparison from Club Lexus I have not verified any data.
Entry Level
3 series (all models)-
C-class- 4,022
ES- 4,010
A4/A5-3,606
LaCrosse- 3,400
G37 (Sedan/Coupe/Convert)- 3,288
IS- 2,851
CTS- 2,705
A4- 2,532
G37 Sedan- 2,102
TL-2,059
MKZ-1,733
HS-1,407
S60-753(now includes V70 wagon, remember life cycle is over)
9-3- 249
Entry Level
3 series (all models)-
C-class- 4,022
ES- 4,010
A4/A5-3,606
LaCrosse- 3,400
G37 (Sedan/Coupe/Convert)- 3,288
IS- 2,851
CTS- 2,705
A4- 2,532
G37 Sedan- 2,102
TL-2,059
MKZ-1,733
HS-1,407
S60-753(now includes V70 wagon, remember life cycle is over)
9-3- 249
I think that will be interesting as TL is really mid-size+ rather than compact+.
Strong ES sales does surprise me I guess the throttle/accelerator fallout has not had its full impact yet. Also, it goes to show that there are plenty of buyers for this $ range that don't care for handling/performance....
12-05-2009, 01:18 PM
#50
Safety Car
E Class 4,824; +113%
5series 3,462; +18.3%
TL 2,059; -29.2%
DTS 1,408; +9.4%
GS 596; -10.1%
A6 527; -26.5%
M 416; -64.9%
RL 176; -18.2%
12-05-2009, 05:00 PM
#51
Burning Brakes
But if a car is not desired by the public it will have low resale value. You dont even need to look at any numbers to predict that...
12-06-2009, 05:48 AM
#53
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12-06-2009, 08:51 AM
#54
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Theres no way of knowing how good the resale value will be at this point. Obviously u can only buy brand new 4G TLs at this point, with a very rare used sale available here and there.
But if a car is not desired by the public it will have low resale value. You dont even need to look at any numbers to predict that...
But if a car is not desired by the public it will have low resale value. You dont even need to look at any numbers to predict that...
Even if they redesign the nose, it is going to have to conform to Honda's safety standards regarding a little known regulation related to pedestrians.
They conformed to this ahead of when they had to do it so in typical Advance fashion, they're catching the guff for it.
To meet this standard regarding pedestrian safety, the nose has to be blunt, and there has to be enough crushable metal ahead of the engine block that you could basically hit somebody on the road at a certain speed without his head having an impact on something that is not crushable (like the engine block).
It was a conscious decision by some manufacturers to meet this standard a little ahead of schedule.
If you keep talking about changes to the nose of the TL, you're going to end up with something that looks like the nose of the Camry which, in my humble opinion, looks a hell of a lot worse than the nose of the TL.
The online community is just an absolute nightmare for automotive manufacturers to deal with. It's hard to sort through what's whining on the part of people who couldn't afford the vehicle in the first place, and what is legitimate criticism on the part of people who have purchased the vehicle or would have purchased the vehicle except for this and that.
Not that I know much about this stuff, of course.
12-06-2009, 08:56 AM
#55
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Is this what you want? A $45,000 Camry nose?
I think my OEM nose looks a hell of a lot better than that!!
I'm sorry to pick on one car in particular, and I hope the owner accepts my apology...but I immediately remembered this car when I saw the comment from another poster about changing the nose.
I prefer this stock look...up front, in your face ADVANCE, and the devil take the rest.
12-06-2009, 09:56 AM
#57
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It's hard to sort through what's whining on the part of people who couldn't afford the vehicle in the first place, and what is legitimate criticism on the part of people who have purchased the vehicle or would have purchased the vehicle except for this and that.
Not that I know much about this stuff, of course.
Not that I know much about this stuff, of course.
That's why Honda, after a lot of bitching by the dealers, hired a market research firm to determine in impact - no pun intended - of the beak on sales.
As for the pictures posted I would choose the "Camery" in a heartbeat
12-06-2009, 10:26 AM
#58
Racer
But more to the point, I live in a "weather convergence zone" in the Cascade (a mountain range with lots of deciduous trees) foothills just north-east of Seattle (precipitation capitol; official Rain Festival runs 01-Jan through 31-Dec annually.) Most Augusts we get some hail at my house! I think we get about 45 days of dry warm weather with no leaves on the roads. This is one reason I'd driven Audis for so long; they (and Subarus with the planetary gear diff) handle the conditions better than most others.
Once engaged, the TL SH-AWD seems to do fine. I'd just like it to never dis-engage.
12-06-2009, 11:07 AM
#59
Low Blow! I say, check out photos on the RJ grille thread.
12-06-2009, 11:24 AM
#61
Response of 2 3G owners once they experienced my 4G
They're visiting their dealers this week to see what they can swing on an 09 or 10.
I was in Grand Rapids, MI for a 2-day meeting last week and enjoyed the 8-inch snowfall they got. The other 2 flew in so my car was the whip. They both commented they were put off by the looks of the 4G but loved the interior. One drove it the night before the snow on wet pavement and was amazed at the power and handling. His ongoing comment for the rest of the visit - "Damn, I shouldn't have driven that car."
The next evening we got about 6 inches of snow had had a 20-mile drive back to the hotel from a downtown restaurant. The car was phenomenal. While others were crawling and sliding all over, the TL was planted and never slipped, even when crossing slush tracks on the highway.
The following morning we drove on ice/snow (no road crews had been out) to the office and again, the car never wavered, uphill, downhill, around icy turns. There were at least a dozen cars and SUVs ditched along the route. The only time the TL slid was when I turned off the VSA, nailed it and did a 360 in the unplowed parking lot. The moment I got off the gas, the tires hooked up, solid.
Bottom line - it's hard to walk away from a 4G (especially the SH-AWD) once you drive it.
I was in Grand Rapids, MI for a 2-day meeting last week and enjoyed the 8-inch snowfall they got. The other 2 flew in so my car was the whip. They both commented they were put off by the looks of the 4G but loved the interior. One drove it the night before the snow on wet pavement and was amazed at the power and handling. His ongoing comment for the rest of the visit - "Damn, I shouldn't have driven that car."
The next evening we got about 6 inches of snow had had a 20-mile drive back to the hotel from a downtown restaurant. The car was phenomenal. While others were crawling and sliding all over, the TL was planted and never slipped, even when crossing slush tracks on the highway.
The following morning we drove on ice/snow (no road crews had been out) to the office and again, the car never wavered, uphill, downhill, around icy turns. There were at least a dozen cars and SUVs ditched along the route. The only time the TL slid was when I turned off the VSA, nailed it and did a 360 in the unplowed parking lot. The moment I got off the gas, the tires hooked up, solid.
Bottom line - it's hard to walk away from a 4G (especially the SH-AWD) once you drive it.
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