Acura Sales for Feb 2009
03-06-2009, 08:58 AM
#81
I am waiting for S4
. Current A4 is outdated in many respects.
That is the most important critiria. If suddenly French starts selling there designs in US and it fails. it does not mean they are bad. TL is exclusive to US market.
. Current A4 is outdated in many respects.
Regardless of whether a car is designed as a world car or for a given market, it doesn't render a comparison for that given market meaningless.
03-06-2009, 10:24 AM
#82
Intermediate
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But why in the meantime drive a TSX, which is decontented from the Euro Accord and therefore, if I understand your argument, inferior since it lacks "full options?"
Are you saying that a multiple market car failing in one market but succeeding in others prevents overall failure of said car? I completely agree. What if said hypothetical car fails to sell sufficiently in its largest market such that its maker cannot recoup development costs such that the program overall represents a loss? Does it matter that the hypothetical car sold well in other, smaller markets?
I don't believe we are engaged in a discussion of absolutes. We are discussing the performance of Acura and more specifically the TL in the US market, which is the only comparison that can be made because the TL is not sold elsewhere (leaving aside China and Canada for the moment).
Is Acura selling fewer TLs than it would like? Most likely. Is it selling fewer 4G TLs than it did 3G TLs? Yes. Is it not meeting expectations? Most likely. Is it a failure such that Honda/Acura cannot sufficiently recoup amortized costs over the lifecycle of the 4G? None of us know that. And a definitive "yes" answer to that question is in my opinion is the only way the current 4G can be labeled a "failure."
I don't believe we are engaged in a discussion of absolutes. We are discussing the performance of Acura and more specifically the TL in the US market, which is the only comparison that can be made because the TL is not sold elsewhere (leaving aside China and Canada for the moment).
Is Acura selling fewer TLs than it would like? Most likely. Is it selling fewer 4G TLs than it did 3G TLs? Yes. Is it not meeting expectations? Most likely. Is it a failure such that Honda/Acura cannot sufficiently recoup amortized costs over the lifecycle of the 4G? None of us know that. And a definitive "yes" answer to that question is in my opinion is the only way the current 4G can be labeled a "failure."
Last edited by '06 Anthracite TL; 03-06-2009 at 10:27 AM. Reason: spelling, fix quote
03-06-2009, 01:10 PM
#83
Do you have a book for the TSX that shows its estimates also as im curious as to what Acura thinks the percentage of V-6's will sell.
BTW I drove by your dealership when i was there a few weeks ago and i must say its very nice. The white RL out front is by far the nicest on your lot....2008 NOS or used?......You live in a great state!!!!
BTW I drove by your dealership when i was there a few weeks ago and i must say its very nice. The white RL out front is by far the nicest on your lot....2008 NOS or used?......You live in a great state!!!!
The store we are in is an older building, but we spent a bunch of money on renovating it. Still, it's far from the standard needed, but it is probably only temporary.
03-06-2009, 01:41 PM
#84
Are you saying that a multiple market car failing in one market but succeeding in others prevents overall failure of said car? I completely agree. What if said hypothetical car fails to sell sufficiently in its largest market such that its maker cannot recoup development costs such that the program overall represents a loss? Does it matter that the hypothetical car sold well in other, smaller markets?
I don't believe we are engaged in a discussion of absolutes. We are discussing the performance of Acura and more specifically the TL in the US market, which is the only comparison that can be made because the TL is not sold elsewhere (leaving aside China and Canada for the moment).
Is Acura selling fewer TLs than it would like? Most likely. Is it selling fewer 4G TLs than it did 3G TLs? Yes. Is it not meeting expectations? Most likely. Is it a failure such that Honda/Acura cannot sufficiently recoup amortized costs over the lifecycle of the 4G? None of us know that. And a definitive "yes" answer to that question is in my opinion is the only way the current 4G can be labeled a "failure."
I don't believe we are engaged in a discussion of absolutes. We are discussing the performance of Acura and more specifically the TL in the US market, which is the only comparison that can be made because the TL is not sold elsewhere (leaving aside China and Canada for the moment).
Is Acura selling fewer TLs than it would like? Most likely. Is it selling fewer 4G TLs than it did 3G TLs? Yes. Is it not meeting expectations? Most likely. Is it a failure such that Honda/Acura cannot sufficiently recoup amortized costs over the lifecycle of the 4G? None of us know that. And a definitive "yes" answer to that question is in my opinion is the only way the current 4G can be labeled a "failure."
03-06-2009, 02:48 PM
#85
^^ and down the spiral we go.... 
03-06-2009, 04:03 PM
#87
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Age: 37
Posts: 9,493
Received 835 Likes
on
519 Posts
According to financial analyst this recession started 15 months ago in December 2007 so it is fair to compare the CTS launch a year ago to the TL launch now. Aside from the launch, the CTS is still doing well in this economy and outselling the all new TL.
What makes that even more amazing is the fact that most consumers know GM may go bankrupt (that fact seems to have deterred buyers from GM's other brands considering sales were DOWN over 50% overall last month for the company). But even so luxury buyers are still buying the CTS over most other luxury sedans (with the exception of C and 3). So what makes the CTS different from the TL? You can't say size is what's hurting the TL since the CTS is just as big, you can't say price since the CTS cost more, and you can't say fuel economy since the CTS is less efficient. The only thing that separates the two is design. I say that because the CTS's design was/is universally praised and the TL's design was/is universally bashed.
It's still like saying the CTS competes with 5 series or the ES competes with E class, when we know that's not the case. Just because the new TL is obese doesn't mean it competes with midship luxury sedans. If you look at other dimensions like luggage space (or even overall passenger space) the TL isn't where the 5/E/GS are. Tweener luxury sedans are nothing new and Lexus built the niche with the ES and they have done extremely well, Acura copied the idea with the 2G TL and that's what saved the brand at the time.
What makes that even more amazing is the fact that most consumers know GM may go bankrupt (that fact seems to have deterred buyers from GM's other brands considering sales were DOWN over 50% overall last month for the company). But even so luxury buyers are still buying the CTS over most other luxury sedans (with the exception of C and 3). So what makes the CTS different from the TL? You can't say size is what's hurting the TL since the CTS is just as big, you can't say price since the CTS cost more, and you can't say fuel economy since the CTS is less efficient. The only thing that separates the two is design. I say that because the CTS's design was/is universally praised and the TL's design was/is universally bashed.
It's still like saying the CTS competes with 5 series or the ES competes with E class, when we know that's not the case. Just because the new TL is obese doesn't mean it competes with midship luxury sedans. If you look at other dimensions like luggage space (or even overall passenger space) the TL isn't where the 5/E/GS are. Tweener luxury sedans are nothing new and Lexus built the niche with the ES and they have done extremely well, Acura copied the idea with the 2G TL and that's what saved the brand at the time.
"so..I was saying the TL is CLOSER to the 5-series, E Class etc, but I didn't say it's in the SAME class as those cars."
You see what I mean? Let me paraphrase a bit here, TL does NOT compete with E Class, 5 series, GS, etc. However, compared with the 3G TL, it has moved CLOSER to that segment (mid-level luxury sedans). I hope I made that clear enough.
Anc ya cp3117, it's sad that there's not much trunk space in the new TL. I guess two of the reasons are the SH-AWD system and the way that the trunk is shaped thanks to that designer.
03-06-2009, 07:16 PM
#88
Three Wheelin'
Well, SSFTSX, we finally have something in common
.....I'm waiting for the new S4 myself! The new supercharged V6 and dual-clutch combo should be awesome! After my current lease is up in a couple years and barring any unforseen circumstances, the S4 will be next ride. I just hope Audi gets smart and keep prices reasonably sane.
03-06-2009, 07:39 PM
#89
Honda Fanboy
According to financial analyst this recession started 15 months ago in December 2007 so it is fair to compare the CTS launch a year ago to the TL launch now. Aside from the launch, the CTS is still doing well in this economy and outselling the all new TL.
Knowing that we are in a recession is not the same as being in a recession and not knowing about it. We didn't know that the recession had started in December of 2007 until December of 2008! The doom and gloom of the economy didn't begin until the fall of 2008. If you remember, Honda was actually one of the only companies that still had sales up prior to Fall. Consumer spending habits were MUCH more different a year ago then they were now. On top of that, MILLIONS of more people had jobs when the CTS was released. Get a clue.
Clearly your still in your junior year of high school because you haven't taken basic econ yet.
What makes that even more amazing is the fact that most consumers know GM may go bankrupt (that fact seems to have deterred buyers from GM's other brands considering sales were DOWN over 50% overall last month for the company). But even so luxury buyers are still buying the CTS over most other luxury sedans (with the exception of C and 3). So what makes the CTS different from the TL? You can't say size is what's hurting the TL since the CTS is just as big, you can't say price since the CTS cost more, and you can't say fuel economy since the CTS is less efficient. The only thing that separates the two is design. I say that because the CTS's design was/is universally praised and the TL's design was/is universally bashed.
Can you provide some support for you claim regarding consumers deterring from GM because they know they MIGHT go into bankruptcy? Because actually, studies have shown that a MAJORITY of consumers would still purchase from GM even if they WERE in bankruptcy. Though a small percentage would be deterred, the majority wouldn't. It goes completely against what you have said.
http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2008/1...bloggingstocks
Knowing that we are in a recession is not the same as being in a recession and not knowing about it. We didn't know that the recession had started in December of 2007 until December of 2008! The doom and gloom of the economy didn't begin until the fall of 2008. If you remember, Honda was actually one of the only companies that still had sales up prior to Fall. Consumer spending habits were MUCH more different a year ago then they were now. On top of that, MILLIONS of more people had jobs when the CTS was released. Get a clue.
Clearly your still in your junior year of high school because you haven't taken basic econ yet.What makes that even more amazing is the fact that most consumers know GM may go bankrupt (that fact seems to have deterred buyers from GM's other brands considering sales were DOWN over 50% overall last month for the company). But even so luxury buyers are still buying the CTS over most other luxury sedans (with the exception of C and 3). So what makes the CTS different from the TL? You can't say size is what's hurting the TL since the CTS is just as big, you can't say price since the CTS cost more, and you can't say fuel economy since the CTS is less efficient. The only thing that separates the two is design. I say that because the CTS's design was/is universally praised and the TL's design was/is universally bashed.
Can you provide some support for you claim regarding consumers deterring from GM because they know they MIGHT go into bankruptcy? Because actually, studies have shown that a MAJORITY of consumers would still purchase from GM even if they WERE in bankruptcy. Though a small percentage would be deterred, the majority wouldn't. It goes completely against what you have said.
http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2008/1...bloggingstocks
03-06-2009, 07:47 PM
#90
Honda Fanboy
A4 most dramatic?. It is still using the same engines from previous generation and same MMI from previous generation. Even the new 7Speed DSG hasnt been launched in US. only Q5 has new MMI but that starts at $10K more.
Dramactic FMC comes when all new engines/transmission/MMI is incorporated at same time. Tech packages are the most expensive options in German cars.
Dramactic FMC comes when all new engines/transmission/MMI is incorporated at same time. Tech packages are the most expensive options in German cars.
Be that as that may be, this is still the most dramatic FMC the A4 has gone through. Feel free to post facts to prove me wrong. And again, feel free to respond to any of the topics that I posted for you which you are CLEARLY AVOIDING. Really, anytime is fine. I can wait.
03-06-2009, 08:09 PM
#91
9th Gear
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Enough of the MMI already. Just like you were wrong (as usual) about the Q5 saving Audi, you are wrong about the MMI. Keep your nintendo video games and stick to the topic already.
Be that as that may be, this is still the most dramatic FMC the A4 has gone through. Feel free to post facts to prove me wrong. And again, feel free to respond to any of the topics that I posted for you which you are CLEARLY AVOIDING. Really, anytime is fine. I can wait.
Be that as that may be, this is still the most dramatic FMC the A4 has gone through. Feel free to post facts to prove me wrong. And again, feel free to respond to any of the topics that I posted for you which you are CLEARLY AVOIDING. Really, anytime is fine. I can wait.
03-06-2009, 09:57 PM
#92
Senior Moderator
Thread closed
03-06-2009, 10:23 PM
#93
Senior Moderator
iTrader: (1)
csmeance posted this about two weeks ago:
We are currently in discussions on how to proceed here. Stay tuned. We have been more than patient with some of you and this is being posted here so there will be no questions as to why certain actions have been taken by us.
We are currently in discussions on how to proceed here. Stay tuned. We have been more than patient with some of you and this is being posted here so there will be no questions as to why certain actions have been taken by us.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
