Acura Sales for Feb 2009
#41
#42
Originally Posted by DrewSRX
February 2009 - Luxury Car Sales
Entry-Level
1. 3 - 6,414
2. C - 3,990
3. CTS - 3,259
4. G - 3,045
5. A4/5 - 2,696
6. ES - 2,575
7. TL - 2,490
8. IS - 2,147
9. MKZ - 1,145
10. 9-3 - 414
11. S60 - 273
#43
Since you bring up the Maxima again, explain why its year-over-year decline was greater than the TL's.
#44
I'm not about to say that Acura hasn't lost any TL sales due to the redesign. But, last year is not this year, and until you can account for all of the other variables, you can't begin to attribute the numbers to a single, remaining variable.
#45
In 2006 the TL was already 3 years into it's model cycle, and the G and IS had major redesigns, and the 3 series was redesigned the year prior and still fresh. Now the TL has just been redesigned and has the upper hand over it's competition in terms of value and feature content, yet lo and behold it hasn't sparked any fires and its still midpack. I think there is a problem.
#47
FIXED:
:rolleyes ::butt head::thumbsdow :theghey::m oon:idhitit:: ):popcorn ::thief::whin e::explode ::c ool::hungover :tr outslap: soopa::playb oy:goldcup:: ninja::tonguefaw cool:gheywave::kissas s:ele ctric::smitler:smooch: :wink::g heyhug::p imp::squintfawcya::ghey: :dunno ::wis h:: bored::b ehead::yi kes::w hip:: hurry::gag : jk:: poke:
The above is a consolidated example of exactly what you have provided to these forums.
The above is a consolidated example of exactly what you have provided to these forums.
#48
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 9,522
Likes: 846
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
CJ I think like you and others have just mentioned, the TL lost its sales leader position for a few years already since the new IS and G came out. Sure enough, the TL has been redesigned, but it has moved upmarket, it's even closer to the 5-series, E class, A6 etc, though it's still priced quite a bit lower than before. Nonetheless, it has the size and features to go up against those cars. But it's still lacking some prestige factor and perhaps some power. IMO, the TSX becomes (or is becoming, whether you like it or not) the replacement for the 3G TL. They are similar priced and equipped. When the V6 model comes out in the summer, it's going to be very similar to the 3G TL. I guess this is Acura's strategy in the short term, to push TSX closer to what the 3G TL was like, yet being a tiny bit smaller, but bigger than most competitors like the 3 series and IS. The TL is getting closer to the 5-series level as said before. After that, they will have to offer more options like 6MT and AWD for the TSX V6 model (slim chance of this happenign though), a Type S model for both TSX and TL.
So to answer your question/comment CJ, regarding the "problem." I'd say the reasons it's not selling over 4000 copies a month are that, it's grown too big to compete with IS, 3 series, etc, poor economy, and its new appearance. Each of these factors are important and I don't think one can simply blame the economy and/or that it's too ugly.
So to answer your question/comment CJ, regarding the "problem." I'd say the reasons it's not selling over 4000 copies a month are that, it's grown too big to compete with IS, 3 series, etc, poor economy, and its new appearance. Each of these factors are important and I don't think one can simply blame the economy and/or that it's too ugly.
#50
SSFTSX's point was that the TL is all new redesigned model and it's still not gaining traction amongst buyers. The year old TSX is even having sales increases and other all new models aren't faring as badly as the TL. Check what happened last year when the all new CTS came out. The TL should be experience similar momentum, but it's not. The TL used to be the number 1 selling luxury vehicle in it's class and now it's midpack (after an extensive redesign).
Continuing to compare sales of cars when the economy was good to sales of cars now is as pointless as you are to this forum. Sales wise, you should be comparing the TL to a car in its class that was released around the same time. How about the refreshed Lexus IS which has sales down over 40%? Or the refreshed G37 which has sales down almost 50%? Or maybe the A4 which is brand new and only has sales down 20% yet fails to come close to the TL. Speaking of momentum, don't forget to include the Lexus GS which has entered the same category as the Acura RL.
#51
Audi philosphy is too provide almost similar content/performance across all models. It is not the relationship like TSX/TL/RL. RS4 can be more expensive than S6.
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-10189076-48.html
Hands on with Audi's new MMI
Among the cars Audi displayed at the Geneva auto show, a number of models featured the new Multimedia Interface (MMI), such as the S5, Q5, S4, and A4 Allroad. We jumped in the last of these and tried out the new system
It's also good to see this car tech finding its way into a multitude of models.
Hands on with Audi's new MMI
Among the cars Audi displayed at the Geneva auto show, a number of models featured the new Multimedia Interface (MMI), such as the S5, Q5, S4, and A4 Allroad. We jumped in the last of these and tried out the new system
It's also good to see this car tech finding its way into a multitude of models.
http://www.autospies.com/news/Audi-S...ebruary-41615/
Wow, A8 down to double digit monthly sales! A neighbor up the street had a three year old A8L (great to drive but misserable to own story) but traded it in on a 2009 MDX, so at least I know where one of the February MDX sales came from.
Wow, A8 down to double digit monthly sales! A neighbor up the street had a three year old A8L (great to drive but misserable to own story) but traded it in on a 2009 MDX, so at least I know where one of the February MDX sales came from.
#52
You cannot separate A5 from A4. Just like you cannot separate Q5 from A4. Audi just give options and higher priced variants from same platforms. Look for the same situtaion in next A7. They are filling all the gaps from A1 to A8.
TL has difficulty in moving upmarkt despite all new design and value leader in its segment. SH-AWD are very small percentage of TL sales.which is not the case with quattros.
TL has difficulty in moving upmarkt despite all new design and value leader in its segment. SH-AWD are very small percentage of TL sales.which is not the case with quattros.
Easy, little one. Take one step at a time. Before you open another can of worms, how about you finish eating the first one you opened. You have not answered to a SINGLE response in my last post to you. Here it is again.
Originally Posted by SSFTSX
Nope. These cars are not of same size and engine capacity. And even if u take AMG C class it does not outsell S Class. RL and TL SH-AWD are pretty much the same in size/performance/fuel economy.
Oh, so now you are factoring in size and other measures once you realized you spoke to soon, again, as usual. Forget the Mercedes. Your missing the point how stupid your comment was, again, as usual.
20% TL-SHAWD is pure non sense. Show me a single Acura dealer which has 20% TL-SH-AWD in inventory?
How about you show me a single thing supporting something you have said that is RELEVANT to the topic at hand?
Show me single new Luxury model which has close to 40% sales decline yoy except TL. G/RL are not new models but updates of 4 years old cars. Even Maxima went upmarket and it lacks AWD. Only reason TL has new signifcant feature is 3.7L engine & SH-AWD and its sales are?
How about Lexus IS and Infiniti G? Both cars just went through a mid-model change and both are down over 40%.
You brought that TL sales outsells Audi A4 not withstanding A4 has the smallest percentage decline and car has moved significantly upmarket more in RL class. My predicitions comes true. Just stay tune.
We have been tunned in for the past three months and so far NONE, ZERO, of your predictions have come true. Seriously, time to give your crystal ball the Zaino treatment.
Your right, the A4 does have a relatively small percentage decline. But that makes it look even worse because even with the A4's small decline and the TL's almost double decline, the TL STILL manages to outsell the A4, and every other car in the Audi lineup for that matter. The A4 went through the most dramatic FMC in it's history and what do we get? A car that can't even outsell the "miserable" TL.
Nope. These cars are not of same size and engine capacity. And even if u take AMG C class it does not outsell S Class. RL and TL SH-AWD are pretty much the same in size/performance/fuel economy.
Oh, so now you are factoring in size and other measures once you realized you spoke to soon, again, as usual. Forget the Mercedes. Your missing the point how stupid your comment was, again, as usual.
20% TL-SHAWD is pure non sense. Show me a single Acura dealer which has 20% TL-SH-AWD in inventory?
How about you show me a single thing supporting something you have said that is RELEVANT to the topic at hand?
Show me single new Luxury model which has close to 40% sales decline yoy except TL. G/RL are not new models but updates of 4 years old cars. Even Maxima went upmarket and it lacks AWD. Only reason TL has new signifcant feature is 3.7L engine & SH-AWD and its sales are?
How about Lexus IS and Infiniti G? Both cars just went through a mid-model change and both are down over 40%.
You brought that TL sales outsells Audi A4 not withstanding A4 has the smallest percentage decline and car has moved significantly upmarket more in RL class. My predicitions comes true. Just stay tune.
We have been tunned in for the past three months and so far NONE, ZERO, of your predictions have come true. Seriously, time to give your crystal ball the Zaino treatment.
Your right, the A4 does have a relatively small percentage decline. But that makes it look even worse because even with the A4's small decline and the TL's almost double decline, the TL STILL manages to outsell the A4, and every other car in the Audi lineup for that matter. The A4 went through the most dramatic FMC in it's history and what do we get? A car that can't even outsell the "miserable" TL.
#53
They are exactly the same. right down to engines/electronics/features.
Audi philosphy is too provide almost similar content/performance across all models. It is not the relationship like TSX/TL/RL. RS4 can be more expensive than S6.
Nobody is talking about the A5 or Q5. Why are you providing irrellevant links again? To make it look like your backing something up?
Speaking of Q5, you said this was the car that will propel Audi. 627 sales?
A8 is in last model year just like 7 series and they are not that many like 3G TL to be freely distributed.
Historically, A8 has always been a dismal sales failure compared to the competition. It has fallen into the same category as the XJ
Audi philosphy is too provide almost similar content/performance across all models. It is not the relationship like TSX/TL/RL. RS4 can be more expensive than S6.
Nobody is talking about the A5 or Q5. Why are you providing irrellevant links again? To make it look like your backing something up?
Speaking of Q5, you said this was the car that will propel Audi. 627 sales?
A8 is in last model year just like 7 series and they are not that many like 3G TL to be freely distributed.
Historically, A8 has always been a dismal sales failure compared to the competition. It has fallen into the same category as the XJ
#56
They are exactly the same. right down to engines/electronics/features.
Audi philosphy is too provide almost similar content/performance across all models. It is not the relationship like TSX/TL/RL. RS4 can be more expensive than S6.
A8 is in last model year just like 7 series and they are not that many like 3G TL to be freely distributed.
Audi philosphy is too provide almost similar content/performance across all models. It is not the relationship like TSX/TL/RL. RS4 can be more expensive than S6.
A8 is in last model year just like 7 series and they are not that many like 3G TL to be freely distributed.
An example is the 3G TL and 7G Accord both shared a 107.9" wheelbase and were both share the floorpan (typically the most expensive single piece of tooling for a auto factory). However they do not share engine cradles and alot of the sheetmetal that goes up from the floorpan is different. None the less they share platforms.
The A8 being freely distributed? It's been a poor selling flagship for Audi, -67% (2/08->2/09) that's worst than the RL. Both nice cars but probably neither making sales numbers marketing/engineering can be proud of.
Last edited by Legend2TL; 03-05-2009 at 02:49 PM.
#57
CJ I think like you and others have just mentioned, the TL lost its sales leader position for a few years already since the new IS and G came out. Sure enough, the TL has been redesigned, but it has moved upmarket, it's even closer to the 5-series, E class, A6 etc, though it's still priced quite a bit lower than before. Nonetheless, it has the size and features to go up against those cars. But it's still lacking some prestige factor and perhaps some power. IMO, the TSX becomes (or is becoming, whether you like it or not) the replacement for the 3G TL. They are similar priced and equipped. When the V6 model comes out in the summer, it's going to be very similar to the 3G TL. I guess this is Acura's strategy in the short term, to push TSX closer to what the 3G TL was like, yet being a tiny bit smaller, but bigger than most competitors like the 3 series and IS. The TL is getting closer to the 5-series level as said before. After that, they will have to offer more options like 6MT and AWD for the TSX V6 model (slim chance of this happenign though), a Type S model for both TSX and TL.
So to answer your question/comment CJ, regarding the "problem." I'd say the reasons it's not selling over 4000 copies a month are that, it's grown too big to compete with IS, 3 series, etc, poor economy, and its new appearance. Each of these factors are important and I don't think one can simply blame the economy and/or that it's too ugly.
So to answer your question/comment CJ, regarding the "problem." I'd say the reasons it's not selling over 4000 copies a month are that, it's grown too big to compete with IS, 3 series, etc, poor economy, and its new appearance. Each of these factors are important and I don't think one can simply blame the economy and/or that it's too ugly.
Easy, little one. Take one step at a time. Before you open another can of worms, how about you finish eating the first one you opened. You have not answered to a SINGLE response in my last post to you. Here it is again.
Reply to this like a man, and then you should continue forward. You debate like a pillbug travels. You have absolutely no since of direction.
Reply to this like a man, and then you should continue forward. You debate like a pillbug travels. You have absolutely no since of direction.
Continuing to compare sales of cars when the economy was good to sales of cars now is as pointless as you are to this forum. Sales wise, you should be comparing the TL to a car in its class that was released around the same time. How about the refreshed Lexus IS which has sales down over 40%? Or the refreshed G37 which has sales down almost 50%? Or maybe the A4 which is brand new and only has sales down 20% yet fails to come close to the TL. Speaking of momentum, don't forget to include the Lexus GS which has entered the same category as the Acura RL.
#58
If they were exactly the same they would all be called an A4, otherwise they are different models. They are all on different wheelbases hence they are different chassis/floorpans. That is typically how a automaker claims a model is a platform shared .
An example is the 3G TL and 7G Accord both shared a 107.9" wheelbase and were both share the floorpan (typically the most expensive single piece of tooling for a auto factory). However they do not share engine cradles and alot of the sheetmetal that goes up from the floorpan is different. None the less they share platforms.
The A8 being freely distributed? It's been a poor selling flagship for Audi, -67% (2/08->2/09) that's worst than the RL. Both nice cars but probably neither making sales numbers marketing/engineering can be proud of.
An example is the 3G TL and 7G Accord both shared a 107.9" wheelbase and were both share the floorpan (typically the most expensive single piece of tooling for a auto factory). However they do not share engine cradles and alot of the sheetmetal that goes up from the floorpan is different. None the less they share platforms.
The A8 being freely distributed? It's been a poor selling flagship for Audi, -67% (2/08->2/09) that's worst than the RL. Both nice cars but probably neither making sales numbers marketing/engineering can be proud of.
http://audimobiles.com/?p=61
In fact, the A4 and the Q5’s relationship is close enough that they have a common wheelbase, chassis design, all-wheel-drive system, and 265-hp V-6 engine. Sharing these pieces is a very good thing because the Q5 retains much of the sports-sedan feel, solidity, and quiet refinement of the A4; it just happens to have a tall roof and a higher center of gravity.
In fact, the A4 and the Q5’s relationship is close enough that they have a common wheelbase, chassis design, all-wheel-drive system, and 265-hp V-6 engine. Sharing these pieces is a very good thing because the Q5 retains much of the sports-sedan feel, solidity, and quiet refinement of the A4; it just happens to have a tall roof and a higher center of gravity.
#59
The TL hasn't moved upmarket. It's still the same price as other entry level luxury sedans. The TL doesn't compete with midship luxury sedans. It lacks an optional V8 engine, and a certain refinement that true midship luxury sedans have. It's interior is the closer to the size of A4, 3 series, G, CTS, and ES (all of which are entry level luxury sedans).
The A4, G37S, 3 series, IS, are all a lot smaller than the 4G TL, hell they're smaller than the 3G TL!
#60
Note to self: If concerned about my "safety" I will blur my license plate in publically posted photos.
#61
The IS is the only one that you posted that is "a lot smaller" than the 4G TL. Look at the specs.
#64
Heh, look again what he wrote. "are all a lot smaller than the 4G TL, hell they're smaller than the 3G TL" The cars mentioned ARE a lot smaller than 4G, and also smaller (not a lot) than 3G
#65
#68
You still haven't provided any FACTS to disprove SSFTSX, so why should anyone even listen to you?
For what would you like me to provide facts? I have provided what is AVAILABLE. IMO, you and SSFTSX have contributed nothing but TROLL GERMS to this forum. How about you ask SSFTSX to provide ONE SINGLE FACT for any of the claims that he has made in this thread, that are RELEVANT to the topic at hand. Remember, the key word here is RELEVANT.
Tell me what you want proven and I will provide what is available if I haven't already. You should be requesting the same from SSFTSX to show that your not a hypocrite and less of a troll.
So now you're giving up saying that comparing sales doesn't matter? Anyway the G and IS aren't all new like the TL, so they are at a disadvantage to the TL, yet the TL doesn't even touch the Gs sales. The Lexus GS is still selling well enough, and most are buying the more upmarket LS which is more profitable for Lexus anyway so it doesn't matter if GS sales are slow.
Giving up on what? When did I ever say sales don't matter? All I said was that comparing the launch sales of the CTS to the launch sales of the TL is not reasonable. The CTS was launched when the economy was in an extremely better position than it is right now. The TL has been launched in the largest economic crisis since the GD. If you can't figure that out, then you've shown us all that your education level isn't even at a high school level because you should have learned basic econ your senior year.
For what would you like me to provide facts? I have provided what is AVAILABLE. IMO, you and SSFTSX have contributed nothing but TROLL GERMS to this forum. How about you ask SSFTSX to provide ONE SINGLE FACT for any of the claims that he has made in this thread, that are RELEVANT to the topic at hand. Remember, the key word here is RELEVANT.
Tell me what you want proven and I will provide what is available if I haven't already. You should be requesting the same from SSFTSX to show that your not a hypocrite and less of a troll.
So now you're giving up saying that comparing sales doesn't matter? Anyway the G and IS aren't all new like the TL, so they are at a disadvantage to the TL, yet the TL doesn't even touch the Gs sales. The Lexus GS is still selling well enough, and most are buying the more upmarket LS which is more profitable for Lexus anyway so it doesn't matter if GS sales are slow.
Giving up on what? When did I ever say sales don't matter? All I said was that comparing the launch sales of the CTS to the launch sales of the TL is not reasonable. The CTS was launched when the economy was in an extremely better position than it is right now. The TL has been launched in the largest economic crisis since the GD. If you can't figure that out, then you've shown us all that your education level isn't even at a high school level because you should have learned basic econ your senior year.
Last edited by VTEC Racer; 03-05-2009 at 09:49 PM.
#69
Originally Posted by (Cj)
You still haven't provided any FACTS to disprove SSFTSX, so why should anyone even listen to you?
For what would you like me to provide facts? I have provided what is AVAILABLE. IMO, you and SSFTSX have contributed nothing but TROLL GERMS to this forum. How about you ask SSFTSX to provide ONE SINGLE FACT for any of the claims that he has made in this thread, that are RELEVANT to the topic at hand. Remember, the key word here is RELEVANT.
Tell me what you want proven and I will provide what is available if I haven't already. You should be requesting the same from SSFTSX to show that your not a hypocrite and less of a troll.
You still haven't provided any FACTS to disprove SSFTSX, so why should anyone even listen to you?
For what would you like me to provide facts? I have provided what is AVAILABLE. IMO, you and SSFTSX have contributed nothing but TROLL GERMS to this forum. How about you ask SSFTSX to provide ONE SINGLE FACT for any of the claims that he has made in this thread, that are RELEVANT to the topic at hand. Remember, the key word here is RELEVANT.
Tell me what you want proven and I will provide what is available if I haven't already. You should be requesting the same from SSFTSX to show that your not a hypocrite and less of a troll.
TL in current form has Zero percent chance of success outside US. So stop comparing it with imports that have wide audience.
Low sales will make Honda making less investments in TL just like they abandoing Honda Legend. Basically u get 99% of tech in EuroAccord what is present in RL. All improvements are going into EuroAccord.
Lamborigini now depends on Audi. So in future if buy Porshe/Lambo/Bentely most of criticals parts will be from Audi. It is the net result of large volume leader in premium segment.
#70
Facts are pretty obvious. TL is US designed and built sedan taking into consideration that oversize vehciles has more chance of success than efficient/compact expensive sedans with full options. (Old way of thinking)
TL in current form has Zero percent chance of success outside US. So stop comparing it with imports that have wide audience.
Low sales will make Honda making less investments in TL just like they abandoing Honda Legend. Basically u get 99% of tech in EuroAccord what is present in RL. All improvements are going into EuroAccord.
Lamborigini now depends on Audi. So in future if buy Porshe/Lambo/Bentely most of criticals parts will be from Audi. It is the net result of large volume leader in premium segment.
TL in current form has Zero percent chance of success outside US. So stop comparing it with imports that have wide audience.
Low sales will make Honda making less investments in TL just like they abandoing Honda Legend. Basically u get 99% of tech in EuroAccord what is present in RL. All improvements are going into EuroAccord.
Lamborigini now depends on Audi. So in future if buy Porshe/Lambo/Bentely most of criticals parts will be from Audi. It is the net result of large volume leader in premium segment.
Originally Posted by SSFTSX
Nope. These cars are not of same size and engine capacity. And even if u take AMG C class it does not outsell S Class. RL and TL SH-AWD are pretty much the same in size/performance/fuel economy.
Oh, so now you are factoring in size and other measures once you realized you spoke to soon, again, as usual. Forget the Mercedes. Your missing the point how stupid your comment was, again, as usual.
20% TL-SHAWD is pure non sense. Show me a single Acura dealer which has 20% TL-SH-AWD in inventory?
How about you show me a single thing supporting something you have said that is RELEVANT to the topic at hand?
Show me single new Luxury model which has close to 40% sales decline yoy except TL. G/RL are not new models but updates of 4 years old cars. Even Maxima went upmarket and it lacks AWD. Only reason TL has new signifcant feature is 3.7L engine & SH-AWD and its sales are?
How about Lexus IS and Infiniti G? Both cars just went through a mid-model change and both are down over 40%.
You brought that TL sales outsells Audi A4 not withstanding A4 has the smallest percentage decline and car has moved significantly upmarket more in RL class. My predicitions comes true. Just stay tune.
We have been tunned in for the past three months and so far NONE, ZERO, of your predictions have come true. Seriously, time to give your crystal ball the Zaino treatment.
Your right, the A4 does have a relatively small percentage decline. But that makes it look even worse because even with the A4's small decline and the TL's almost double decline, the TL STILL manages to outsell the A4, and every other car in the Audi lineup for that matter. The A4 went through the most dramatic FMC in it's history and what do we get? A car that can't even outsell the "miserable" TL.
Nope. These cars are not of same size and engine capacity. And even if u take AMG C class it does not outsell S Class. RL and TL SH-AWD are pretty much the same in size/performance/fuel economy.
Oh, so now you are factoring in size and other measures once you realized you spoke to soon, again, as usual. Forget the Mercedes. Your missing the point how stupid your comment was, again, as usual.
20% TL-SHAWD is pure non sense. Show me a single Acura dealer which has 20% TL-SH-AWD in inventory?
How about you show me a single thing supporting something you have said that is RELEVANT to the topic at hand?
Show me single new Luxury model which has close to 40% sales decline yoy except TL. G/RL are not new models but updates of 4 years old cars. Even Maxima went upmarket and it lacks AWD. Only reason TL has new signifcant feature is 3.7L engine & SH-AWD and its sales are?
How about Lexus IS and Infiniti G? Both cars just went through a mid-model change and both are down over 40%.
You brought that TL sales outsells Audi A4 not withstanding A4 has the smallest percentage decline and car has moved significantly upmarket more in RL class. My predicitions comes true. Just stay tune.
We have been tunned in for the past three months and so far NONE, ZERO, of your predictions have come true. Seriously, time to give your crystal ball the Zaino treatment.
Your right, the A4 does have a relatively small percentage decline. But that makes it look even worse because even with the A4's small decline and the TL's almost double decline, the TL STILL manages to outsell the A4, and every other car in the Audi lineup for that matter. The A4 went through the most dramatic FMC in it's history and what do we get? A car that can't even outsell the "miserable" TL.
#71
I wouldnt mind reading it as im curious if they have other estimates on TSX sales and other Acura models......Thanks in Advance.
#72
Sorry, I couldnt find anything at the Acura or Honda Media site that showed these estimates (maybe an oversight on my part) but im sure you must have a link somewhere to an article that shows they stated this.
I wouldnt mind reading it as im curious if they have other estimates on TSX sales and other Acura models......Thanks in Advance.
I wouldnt mind reading it as im curious if they have other estimates on TSX sales and other Acura models......Thanks in Advance.
Last edited by Colin; 03-06-2009 at 01:41 AM.
#74
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 9,522
Likes: 846
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
The TL hasn't moved upmarket. It's still the same price as other entry level luxury sedans. The TL doesn't compete with midship luxury sedans. It lacks an optional V8 engine, and a certain refinement that true midship luxury sedans have. It's interior is the closer to the size of A4, 3 series, G, CTS, and ES (all of which are entry level luxury sedans).
You still haven't provided any FACTS to disprove SSFTSX, so why should anyone even listen to you?
So now you're giving up saying that comparing sales doesn't matter? Anyway the G and IS aren't all new like the TL, so they are at a disadvantage to the TL, yet the TL doesn't even touch the Gs sales. The Lexus GS is still selling well enough, and most are buying the more upmarket LS which is more profitable for Lexus anyway so it doesn't matter if GS sales are slow.
You still haven't provided any FACTS to disprove SSFTSX, so why should anyone even listen to you?
So now you're giving up saying that comparing sales doesn't matter? Anyway the G and IS aren't all new like the TL, so they are at a disadvantage to the TL, yet the TL doesn't even touch the Gs sales. The Lexus GS is still selling well enough, and most are buying the more upmarket LS which is more profitable for Lexus anyway so it doesn't matter if GS sales are slow.
Note that I said the following,
"it has moved upmarket, it's even closer to the 5-series, E class, A6 etc, though it's still priced quite a bit lower as before. Nonetheless, it has the size and features to go up against those cars. But it's still lacking some prestige factor and perhaps some power."
so..I was saying the TL is CLOSER to the 5-series, E Class etc, but I didn't say it's in the SAME class as those cars. I also said it's priced lower. I also mentioned about needing more power to compete with the big boys (ie V8 models). Another point I made before was adding more options.
As far as interior room, check out this link (hopefully it works):
http://autos.msn.com/research/compar...8629&v=t108794
As you can see, the TL only loses to the 3 series AND 5 series in headroom, but larger in other interior dimensions. In other words, the TL has more shoulder room and leg room than the 5 series.
http://autos.msn.com/research/compar...8629&v=t107649
Again, same thing with the E Class. The TL offers less leg room, but more shoulder room and legroom than the E class.
http://autos.msn.com/research/compar...8629&v=t108711
Compared to the GS, they are pretty close, but in general the interior dimensions of the TL is a little bit bigger.
#75
I personally think for the market the TL is aimed at (Entry Level) those figures should be much higher for the SH-AWD. In the last five years Audi quattro sales have increased dramatically but in a worldwide presence the FWD versions have always outsold the Quattro. Im not sure what Audi's delay was releasing their FWD version as they have had them for decades but it should help their sales a little more now.
"The most successful Audi models in terms of sales volume are the A4 and the A6, and this is also true of their quattro variants. If the preceding model versions are included, 37,572 Audi A4 cars with permanent all-wheel drive had been built by the end of 2004. The figure for the Audi A6 is 601,204, the proportion with the quattro driveline having risen recently to 42 % in the case of the saloon.
From 1980 until the end of 2004, Audi had built 1,815,396 cars with permanent all-wheel drive. If this is related to a total production - excluding the A2 model line - of 12,030,207 units, the all-wheel-drive variants account for 15.1% during the period.
In recent years, the proportion of quattro-equipped cars was regularly higher than one quarter of the total, and indeed reached 26.7% in 2004. Audi is the leading international manufacturer of passenger cars with permanent all-wheel drive in the premium segment of the market. The current model programme lists 74 model variants with the quattro driveline."
http://www.audiworld.com/news/05/25q...ontent35.shtml
Do you have a book for the TSX that shows its estimates also as im curious as to what Acura thinks the percentage of V-6's will sell.
BTW I drove by your dealership when i was there a few weeks ago and i must say its very nice. The white RL out front is by far the nicest on your lot....2008 NOS or used?......You live in a great state!!!!
#76
Note that I said the following,
"it has moved upmarket, it's even closer to the 5-series, E class, A6 etc, though it's still priced quite a bit lower as before. Nonetheless, it has the size and features to go up against those cars. But it's still lacking some prestige factor and perhaps some power."
"it has moved upmarket, it's even closer to the 5-series, E class, A6 etc, though it's still priced quite a bit lower as before. Nonetheless, it has the size and features to go up against those cars. But it's still lacking some prestige factor and perhaps some power."
There are many other new cars out there that are going to have more features and more space than the 4G and when the new E-Class, A6, 5 Series are released soon they are going pull away again from the 4G in terms of size.
#77
WOW not sure why they didn't build 20% then at least in the south we see maybe 2-3 max at dealers I had to go 250 miles to get my AWD in the color I wanted becasue they are so rare and that dealer had 4 cars our of 44, my local dealers had may 1 out of 50.
#78
Giving up on what? When did I ever say sales don't matter? All I said was that comparing the launch sales of the CTS to the launch sales of the TL is not reasonable. The CTS was launched when the economy was in an extremely better position than it is right now. The TL has been launched in the largest economic crisis since the GD. If you can't figure that out, then you've shown us all that your education level isn't even at a high school level because you should have learned basic econ your senior year..
What makes that even more amazing is the fact that most consumers know GM may go bankrupt (that fact seems to have deterred buyers from GM's other brands considering sales were DOWN over 50% overall last month for the company). But even so luxury buyers are still buying the CTS over most other luxury sedans (with the exception of C and 3). So what makes the CTS different from the TL? You can't say size is what's hurting the TL since the CTS is just as big, you can't say price since the CTS cost more, and you can't say fuel economy since the CTS is less efficient. The only thing that separates the two is design. I say that because the CTS's design was/is universally praised and the TL's design was/is universally bashed.
Note that I said the following,
"it has moved upmarket, it's even closer to the 5-series, E class, A6 etc, though it's still priced quite a bit lower as before. Nonetheless, it has the size and features to go up against those cars. But it's still lacking some prestige factor and perhaps some power."
so..I was saying the TL is CLOSER to the 5-series, E Class etc, but I didn't say it's in the SAME class as those cars. I also said it's priced lower. I also mentioned about needing more power to compete with the big boys (ie V8 models). Another point I made before was adding more options.
As far as interior room, check out this link (hopefully it works):
http://autos.msn.com/research/compar...8629&v=t108794
As you can see, the TL only loses to the 3 series AND 5 series in headroom, but larger in other interior dimensions. In other words, the TL has more shoulder room and leg room than the 5 series.
http://autos.msn.com/research/compar...8629&v=t107649
Again, same thing with the E Class. The TL offers less leg room, but more shoulder room and legroom than the E class.
http://autos.msn.com/research/compar...8629&v=t108711
Compared to the GS, they are pretty close, but in general the interior dimensions of the TL is a little bit bigger.
"it has moved upmarket, it's even closer to the 5-series, E class, A6 etc, though it's still priced quite a bit lower as before. Nonetheless, it has the size and features to go up against those cars. But it's still lacking some prestige factor and perhaps some power."
so..I was saying the TL is CLOSER to the 5-series, E Class etc, but I didn't say it's in the SAME class as those cars. I also said it's priced lower. I also mentioned about needing more power to compete with the big boys (ie V8 models). Another point I made before was adding more options.
As far as interior room, check out this link (hopefully it works):
http://autos.msn.com/research/compar...8629&v=t108794
As you can see, the TL only loses to the 3 series AND 5 series in headroom, but larger in other interior dimensions. In other words, the TL has more shoulder room and leg room than the 5 series.
http://autos.msn.com/research/compar...8629&v=t107649
Again, same thing with the E Class. The TL offers less leg room, but more shoulder room and legroom than the E class.
http://autos.msn.com/research/compar...8629&v=t108711
Compared to the GS, they are pretty close, but in general the interior dimensions of the TL is a little bit bigger.
#79
Facts are pretty obvious. TL is US designed and built sedan taking into consideration that oversize vehciles has more chance of success than efficient/compact expensive sedans with full options. (Old way of thinking)
TL in current form has Zero percent chance of success outside US. So stop comparing it with imports that have wide audience.
Low sales will make Honda making less investments in TL just like they abandoing Honda Legend. Basically u get 99% of tech in EuroAccord what is present in RL. All improvements are going into EuroAccord.
Lamborigini now depends on Audi. So in future if buy Porshe/Lambo/Bentely most of criticals parts will be from Audi. It is the net result of large volume leader in premium segment.
TL in current form has Zero percent chance of success outside US. So stop comparing it with imports that have wide audience.
Low sales will make Honda making less investments in TL just like they abandoing Honda Legend. Basically u get 99% of tech in EuroAccord what is present in RL. All improvements are going into EuroAccord.
Lamborigini now depends on Audi. So in future if buy Porshe/Lambo/Bentely most of criticals parts will be from Audi. It is the net result of large volume leader in premium segment.
Regardless of whether a car is designed as a world car or for a given market, it doesn't render a comparison for that given market meaningless.
#80
Still waiting...
Your right, the A4 does have a relatively small percentage decline. But that makes it look even worse because even with the A4's small decline and the TL's almost double decline, the TL STILL manages to outsell the A4, and every other car in the Audi lineup for that matter. The A4 went through the most dramatic FMC in it's history and what do we get? A car that can't even outsell the "miserable" TL
Your right, the A4 does have a relatively small percentage decline. But that makes it look even worse because even with the A4's small decline and the TL's almost double decline, the TL STILL manages to outsell the A4, and every other car in the Audi lineup for that matter. The A4 went through the most dramatic FMC in it's history and what do we get? A car that can't even outsell the "miserable" TL
Dramactic FMC comes when all new engines/transmission/MMI is incorporated at same time. Tech packages are the most expensive options in German cars.