Linmk2

This following article appeared today in Automotive News:


Acura is in the middle of a major product changeover, reflecting plans to challenge second-tier luxury rivals Audi, Buick, Infiniti and Volvo rather than Mercedes-Benz, BMW and Lexus.

Acura has launched the ILX compact sedan and redesigned the RDX compact crossover. It will redesign the RL flagship this fall and make changes to the MDX crossover and TL mid-sized sedan in 2013.

Acura will lead the technology revolution for Honda Motor as the new Earth Dreams engine family is installed in all future vehicles. Also, Acura is moving toward increased use of seven-speed dual-clutch automatic transmissions in addition to its basic six-speed automatic. More models also will get hybrid versions.

ILX: Acura returned to the entry-luxury sedan segment this spring. But already criticism that the base 2.0-liter engine is underpowered may lead to a mid-cycle swap-out for the 2.4-liter, 181-hp Earth Dreams engine, or an automatic transmission for the 200-hp 2.4-liter from the Civic Si. Company sources say, in response to rumors on the Internet, that there are no plans for a coupe variant.

TSX: Within Acura there is talk that the TSX will go away after its normal model cycle ends next year. But don't be surprised if limited production continues, because the TSX's V-6 version doesn't cannibalize the ILX's four-cylinder offerings.

TL: A redesign comes next spring, still sharing the Accord's underpinnings. Because the TL is too close in footprint to the RL, expect a shorter wheelbase and overall length, moving it closer to the soon-to-depart TSX. The big change will be addition of the Earth Dreams engine, a 3.5-liter V-6 with 310 hp and 265 pounds-feet of torque. This is 30 more hp and 11 more pounds-feet than the outgoing 3.5-liter engine in the TL. A hybrid version will also be available, sharing the same parts as the Honda Accord Hybrid and with a fuel economy rating of around 45 mpg.

RL: A redesign comes in fall, and the Earth Dreams V-6 from the base TL is the base engine. It will be teamed with a front-wheel-drive transmission and a four-wheel-steering system. The base model is expected to weigh under 4,000 pounds thanks to extensive use of aluminum and high-strength steel.

The RL will have an optional 3.5-liter direct-injection V-6 engine with variable valve timing, combined with Honda Motor's Sport Hybrid All-Wheel Drive system. The improved engine puts out more than 370 hp, using a seven-speed dual-clutch transmission.

The redesigned car is about the same length as the current RL, but with a wheelbase two inches longer. Both the track and vehicle width will increase by about two inches.

RDX: The crossover was redesigned this spring. The big change: A V-6 replaced the turbocharged four-cylinder engine.

ZDX: Sales are sliding for the MDX variant, but since it costs relatively little to produce it alongside the MDX, it might remain in the lineup as a special-order vehicle until the next MDX arrives.

MDX: The mid-sized crossover is scheduled for a redesign next fall and will stay on the Pilot/Odyssey platform. Don't expect much change in size, but definitely look for a dialing back of the "beak" grille. It will get the same Earth Dreams 310-hp V-6 engine as the TL.

NSX: By 2014, Honda will hand-build the Acura sports car on a small-scale assembly line at the company's r&d facility in Ohio. The NSX will be as much about technology as performance. Instead of a monster engine, it will have a compact, direct-injection V-6 teamed with a lithium ion battery pack. The "Sport Hybrid All-Wheel Drive" system uses two integrated drive units at the rear wheels connected to a motor-generator that delivers power.

The NSX will be developed at Honda r&d in Ohio.



Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/2012...#ixzz228VWJnDw

VQPower37

cool article ... seems like they are going back to their roots

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^not really!!

"lets stick the 3.5 earth dreams in everything"

Mitch-S

Acura just lost me and other dads that need a spacious sedan but sporty enough to keep us happy. With the TL becoming smaller to replace the TSX, the ILX is a waste of $, and the RL is too expensive, there's nothing in the future that I would consider.

Change is good but not when it's not broken. Integra, Legend, And now TL gone.

NCBlue

I did not like the 3g because it felt small. I purchased the 4g due to the increased size. Now Acura is making the 5g small again! No thanks!

Booya4139

You seem to be missing the beauty of economies of scale... Building an awesome engine and putting it across lines allows you to bring it to market cheaper and undercut all those companies spreading themselves thin on R&D across so many product lines...


If ford put that coyote engine in the taurus, hell in the new sport focus, fusion..etc...etc... they would all become huge sellers...

Instead they create an overly complicated twin turbo V6 for the SHO that was a waste...

Standardizing bulletproof components is smart.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

I was just commenting on the "going back to the racing roots" comment.

I understand that its more economical to standardize bullet proof components

BUTT, Did Honda solve the carbon build up problem that is inherit to direct injection!?!?!?
the answer to that question is NO, they did not.

Booya4139

Neither has any other manuf.... Its not a honda specific issue, its an issue with DI tech in general...

I agree with you on the need to keep the sportiness/edginess 'racing' roots, Its a marketability issue. Anyone can stuff leather in a civic and call it luxury... It doesn't differentiate you from Buick or Kia doing the same things...

Honda made its mark by pushing the technology envelope and giving it to the consumer at a value price... The K20 that was in the acura integra has been relevant for 15+ years... Many would argue the DOHC K20 is superior to the SOHC K24 thats in the new civic Si, and talked about for acuras as well...

They were successful, sat back on their success and bled it dry, and now they are kind of starting back at square one, once again looking like the underdog, but now not looking like the hungry underdog. More like the content also-ran.

The sizzle sells the steak, and honda desperately needs some sizzle... Most car companies provide that sizzle by loss leader performance offerings that the volume models take cues from and leverage the aura that the performance cars exude...

Acura tried to create the sizzle out of creating a simultaneously edgy yet non aggressive cross platform redesign that we can pretty much conclude has failed.

Bottom line they need the NSX back very very badly. Honda never should have dumped the S2000 either...

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^loved your answer!!

Booya4139

Its also dissapoints that this 'earth dreams' motor is only a very marginal increase in performance. 3.5L 310/265??? WTF...

It was billed as having big performance and efficiency improvements. I am now guessing we are talking maybe a 10% improvement in efficiency to go with the 10% imrprovement in power. I was expecting more... This is supposed to be the engine that powers honda for the next generation.

The hyundai genesis coupe 2013 has a 3.8L 348HP offering. Sounds like they've already beaten honda to the punch.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^exactly why they are not going back to their racing roots.

resting on their laurels!!!

012TL-GLM

I hear ya, even though we know its all how that bhp gets to the road that matters, having a larger number is going to get more of the general populace to look at your product and come in for test drives.

I was just browsing several cars this afternoon thinking where is Acura's sport model? Lexus F, Infiniti IPL, BMW M, Mercedes AMG...Hell, Ford has SHO, Chevy has SS, Dodge has SRT....

The NSX is a welcome addition, but what will it really do for Acura? I certainly can't afford a $130,000 weekend toy, and think that goes the same for most consumers.

oldsnwbrdr

I'm excited and not surprised about the TL news, I am one who preferred the size of the 3G TL. The bigger surprise to me (although maybe this is coming) is that no mention was made of a base 4-cylinder engine.

SeismicGuy

Just a few random observations. Acura has always seem to be in a quandary about its identity. They were the first Asian sport/luxury out of the chute and then floundered with seemingly odd decisions (dropping their marque leader, the Legend, introducing and then removing one model after another, etc.) Toyota and Nissan have finally found their focus with their luxury models (Lexus and Infiniti) but Honda is still stumbling around.

I did see a new ILX at the dealer yesterday when my car was in for service and it does look good in person. Of course knowing Acura it will be gone in a few years.

pimpin-tl

2nd gen TL, bigger, 3rd gen smaller, 4th gen bigger, 5th gen smaller? lol.

akash4u

iTrader: (3)

Acura puts a lot of effort in performance research and technology. The TL gets the best attention on both aspects. Im curious to see what the redesigned version (TL) looks/feels like before I make any negative or positive comments.

As an optimistic customer I expect better features, ride and power. Assuming reliability stays the same. Anything goes wrong here..Im looking for a different brand.

KPSBUDS420

So, I guess the 6th will be .. Big?

012TL-GLM

I'm not opposed to the next gen TL being a little smaller - if they shaved off 300 lbs and kept the same powertrain (or even more) it'd be sweet. I'd like to see a 7 or 8 speed auto that behaves quicker than the current 6 speed, and some type of turbo/blower option. Hell, I can get a factory blower on a Tacoma...

Booya4139

Dont think you'll see forced induction out of honda... the only turbo motor they made (2.3T on the old RDX) was replaced with a slight variant of the 3.5L base TL engine...

Steven Bell

iTrader: (2)

Interesting insight to the future of Acura. I'll be interested to see if it all comes true.

Six Shifter

only thing this article does for me is confirm there is no coupe in Acura's future ... and therefore no further Acura's in my future. fortunately, there is an AWD coupe out there with a choice of 6 speed manual or 7 speed dual clutch S-tronic tranny which will quite nicely fill that niche.

Rocket_man

While the TLX may be a bit smaller on the outside, like the RLX I bet they will try to keep the interior close to the same. So to me that would be great. I'm looking to get the TLX as my next car and that size fits my needs just fine. I'm not too worried. But give me that folding rear seat!

Edward'TLS

Being rather similar in size, the 4G TL is killing the 2G RL sales big time.

Since the upcoming RL will not grow significantly in size, thus the upcoming TL has to shrink down in size.

prepreludesh

I think you all need to settle down with your high expectations of the future of Acura. That article had many errors in it, most notably, the abscense of talking about the hybrid-linked powertrain and how SH-AWD is going electrical (meaning the other two wheels are driven by electric motors)

First off, they are coming up with answers on how to reduce/eliminate carbon build up on the intake valves of a Direct Injected Engine. Manufacturers have tinkered with a dual injection where port-injectors spray every now and to clean the valves and the DI is used for a majority of driving to keep fuel mileage at its peak. Also, there are also talks of an ethanol reservior (similar to the urea reservior for some diesel engines) that would inject ethanol into the ports to clean the valves. For the record, no cutaways or information of the specifics have been released by the Earth Dreams Engines, so nobody here or in an article can say that Honda has or has not developed a way to prevent this. Maybe they have a totally new technology that nobody else has thought of/mastered that will make them the industry leaders for a small amount of time until other manufacturers can copy them?

Also, the new Civic Si engine does not have an SOHC K24, all K-series engines are DOHC. And they all have i-VTEC. The K24 in the new Civic Si is a TSX engine. It will more than likely increase fuel MPG simply because giving it more torque makes it need to rev less coming away from a stoplight or get up to speed merging on a highway. The K20 may be prefered by tuners because they can tinker with it more, but ideally, a basic consumer wants low-end torque to get up to cruising speed easily and not have to rev the crap out of an engine.


I don't think Ford wasted anything on developing the twin turbo V-6. The SHO is not the only application that it was put in. It was also put in the Freestyle and the F150. It has more torque than the Coyote engine and gets better MPG. Ford is on the right track to maintain their current development of a smaller and turbocharged engines because of government MPG mandates and securing sales during the next inevitable fuel price hike. Their 1.6L turbo four is a great choice for small cars, the 2.0L turbo is great for midsize cars and small SUVs and the 3.5L is great for large SUV/truck options. Honda's K23 turbo was too large to get good MPG if put in a car application but it was also tuned to use too much fuel to lug around the AWD system of the RDX while giving it a decent sporty performance. When you can only eek out 23MPG in a small SUV, you're going to lose out to your competitors. They needed more like a 1.8L Turbo to put in the Accord to make any kind of sense...


Lexus sales have gone down the pits so much (in regards to their cars, not SUVs) that Lexus was seriously considering dropping all of their car lines because people aren't/weren't buying them. Acura Sales also still top Infiniti's overall (even last year) so I don't think that it's a matter of who is better than who. The bottom line is Acura is still making and selling cars that people want, but the people that grew up with Acura are not happy about the direction they're going because we liked the sportiness of the old days and the fun factor. But Acura also knows that low-RPM motors, lots of technology and gadgets and unoffensive styling sells cars for them and we're not going to get something that blows us away anytime soon.

Glashub

Beware what you wish for. I have an 8 speed in my Genesis. Smooth as silk in Drive but just horrible in sport. Seems to plague BMW and MB too.

Glashub

I passed on the 5.0 GDI R-spec Genesis in favor of the 4.6 engine (no GDI). I did a lot of research into DI prior to making that decision. A manufacturer has to redesign the whole fuel system and it seems that torture tests are not a reliable indicator of what will happen to the system in 50,000 miles - http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...l/#more-442513

Already people on the Genesis forum are reporting blown gaskets and an odd chipring noise in new cars that Hyundai techs are saying is normal and is GDI associated.

So now we're supposed to be jazzed that they are adding new technologies to a technology nobody has been able to make work reliably on mass produced cars?

The hybrid fuel delivery seems like a great solution in theory but I feel there will be yet to be revealed problems with that as well.

Sometimes I think Acura is slow to market because their brand became associated with "reliability" rather than leading tech and performance. If I'm known for being reliable, I'd probably not be a 1st mover on anything and would wait for proof in concepts.

RPhilMan1

Take everything you read on the internet with a grain of salt.



I'm still having a hard time believing the rumors that Acura is planning to drop the TSX. Why would Acura drop their #3 selling vehicle (YTD) and #2 selling sedan? Granted, I'm sure they are forecasting the ILX to take some of the TSX's sales.

While the RL sells way under 1,000 units per year. Sales are also down 71.6% since last year!

I really think it would be smarter to drop the RL and have the TLX become the flagship. Why in the world would you reduce the TL's size again?

You know what would really be nice? Pairing the TSX with the V6 and SH-AWD with an available 6MT.

ILX - TSX - TLX
RDX - ZDX - MDX
NSX

hatepotholez

Actually some Russian guy converted a 2nd gen Tsx to awd and the 4 cyl is turbo'd. You'll find it on YouTube and under the Tsx forums.

JT4

"TL: A redesign comes next spring, still sharing the Accord's underpinnings. Because the TL is too close in footprint to the RL, expect a shorter wheelbase and overall length, moving it closer to the soon-to-depart TSX. The big change will be addition of the Earth Dreams engine, a 3.5-liter V-6 with 310 hp and 265 pounds-feet of torque. This is 30 more hp and 11 more pounds-feet than the outgoing 3.5-liter engine in the TL. A hybrid version will also be available, sharing the same parts as the Honda Accord Hybrid and with a fuel economy rating of around 45
mpg".


Maybe I missed it. But the article gives the impression that there will only be one engine for the TL, regardless of if it's AWD or FWD..

Also, Will the Hybrid engine be available on both models..

IMO the current size is fine, if they make it smaller I just hope it's not as small (and I like the 3G) as the 3G. Maybe somewhere between the 3G and 4G.. I guess we will just have to wait and see.

Ruby

I don't know about you guys...but why be upset if Acura is going down the dumps? There are PLENTY of GREAT cars out there. Venture a bit. Don't be a fan boy. That being said I am VERY happy with my 2007 Acura TL Type-S and have NO plans to replace it any time soon. Acura and Honda are in a funk and will be for a long time I think. They had their heyday in the 90's and 2000's and they just don't have "it" anymore. My 2 cents.

prepreludesh

If Acura starts putting the electric assist SH-AWD in their vehicles, they could very well size them down. They wouldn't need bigger transmissions, rear differentials and driveshafts. So they could potentially have a larger interior because the bulges around the floor would be absent and trunk space would increase. They don't need a size as big as you think to keep the vehicle from "feeling" larger. So I wouldn't fret over a smaller TL because it's going to be just as fast, more fuel efficient and have more room to stretch out on the inside in the grand scheme of things.

SeismicGuy

Are those types of automotive sales figures readily available somewhere? You might as well also post comparison with Toyota (Lexus) and Nissan (Infiniti) just as a comparison.

I am more of an engineer than a marketing type but from a layperson perspective, here is what I would do. I would drop the RL name and replace with a real high-end bells and whistles model with a V8 and call it Legend. Right now there really is no model at Acura that deserves "flagship" designation. Lexus has the LS (or even GS) models, Infiniti has the M, BMW has the 7-series, etc.

A "flagship" model has to have something worth paying the extra bucks for. When I was shopping for my TL I was at a dealer where new TL's and RL's were parked near each other. For the life of me I could not figure out why anyone would spend that extra $10K (at least) for a model that looks and spec wise was not much different than the TL. If Acura wants to have a "flagship" attention grabbing model that is $10K more than the next model down, they need to offer something that is worth the extra bucks, imho.

Ruby

People have been saying this for years...

RPhilMan1

Yes, Honda releases sales reports each month.

http://hondanews.com/channels/167/re...c-7b004c34bef5

Unfortunately Honda has been pretty clear in saying they don't have interest in developing a V8. And with fuel prices and efficiency standards, I can understand in a way. That is why I suggest dropping the RLX altogether and crowning the TLX as the flagship.

SeismicGuy

Hard to fathom why they would not want a V8 when virtually ALL of the similar competition has one in their lineup (Lexus, Infiniti, BMW, Mercedes, Genesis) and those that don't have a V8 with grunt opt for a turbocharged V6 (Audi).

Acura has no real flagship whizbang engine nor a flagship model.

RPhilMan1

Albeit it may be a bit old (2009), it seems as though Honda was true to its word.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/honda-ch...ura-model.html

With sales the way they are, maybe they don't mind not having direct competition.

Rocket_man

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/

n-spring

Might I suggest we all go look at and sit inside a 2013 Honda Accord when they hit the showroom. Since the TL is based on the same platform, you can pretty much judge what size the new TLX will be, inside and out, by checking out the Accord.

brianch

So a bunch of 4 door cars and one 2 door car that will cost over $100k.

What about the integra Acura? 2 door sports coupe fwd? dare to venture into a 2 door sports coupe rwd? Acura is turning into the old Toyota. Even toyota is stepping their game up with the new FR-S and rumors of a Supra replacement/m3 challenger

Booya4139

Yes, it has a cast in place exhaust manifold that prevents replacing the restrictive short header, and thus makes exhaust upgrades moot as well... Those upgrades are worth 20-25% power increases and make anunderpowered car feel quick, and its obviously ridiculously agile...with some very minor upgrades the agility can be boosted much higher.

The civic Si is a tuner car. Sales and acceptance has been poor. Thankfully the poor reception kept my '08 resale value astonishingly high. Was able to move into a 2009 TL tech for very short money...

bad for honda, good for me... the fact people didn't take to the 09-11 TL kept CPO prices pretty low IMO..

Sell High, Buy low...