Vegas_TL04

Hey Guys,

Just purchased my 9th Acura in the last 10 years. I just traded in my 2011 MDX Tech (Black/Black) for a 2012 TL SH-AWD AT w/ Tech, Black on Black, with 19" Powder Coated Rims and 15% tint all around. I wanted a black/black SHAWD 6MT, but none were available in a 6 state region

I really liked the MDX, and since trading it a week ago, I'm REALLY starting to miss it. I owned 5 previous 3G TLs, my last TL being a 2008 TL-S 6MT. I ALWAYS thought the seats in my previous 3G TLs were awesome, extremely laterally supportive, and the seat cushion had PLENTY of backward tilt down and forward tilt up (to lift the knees). I was always super comfortable in my 3G TLs. My partner also had a 2009 TSX 6MT and now a 2011 TSX AT and I also find the seats extremely comfortable, and the dricing position.

Now that I have been driving this new 4G TL, I am missing my comfy MDX pretty bad. Don't get me wrong, the speed and cornering are fantastic, and the driving characteristics really impress over the MDX. BUT, I cannot find a comfortable seating position for the life of me. I have finally figured out that the BIGGEST flaws from the 3G seating to the 4G seating is that:

1. The tilt/tel steering wheel in the 4G does not tilt DOWN nearly as much as the 3G TL.
2. The front of the seat cushion does not tilt UPWARD nearly as much, which causes lack of lateral support on my legs and fatigue.
3. The seat back seems more intrusive. Specifically, the portion where the lumbar would increase (if I added it).

So, if I adjust the seat to where my legs are comfortably and laterally supported, I can't reach the friggin steering wheel comfortably. If I move the seat cushion forward and the seat back in a more upright position to comfortably reach the steering wheel, then my legs cramp and my feet have to turn sideways to fit.

I have read somehwere that the SHAWD system intrudes into the driver's footwell and legroom area. I have also noticed that the passenger seat (when front of seat cushion is fully tilted up, and back of seat cushion is fully tilted down) sits higher and is MUCH more comfortable for me than the driver seat.

Basically, my comment/question is WTF? My first TL was a '99 and my most recent before the 4G was 2008. All have been VERY comfortable to drive. So far, I am not happy with the 4G. Anyone else notice this? Or am I crazy? My sales lady thinks I'm crazy!!!!

Glashub

I went from a 3g to a 4g and after some testing found a seat postion I'm completely comfortable with and unlike the 3g I don't have to lift the sterring wheel to get out. I can slide right out. Hope you find the sweet spot too.

Vegas_TL04

Thanks Glas..

Forgot to mention I'm 6'3" and 199lbs..in decent shape. I have actually modified the seat by lifting the very front of the seat rails underneath the seat cushion by adding 2 steel wedge nuts to vertically tilt the seat up about 3/4" to 1", and it has helped, slightly.

I'm also now wondering if I shouldn't have gotten the AWD because I have heard it takes up legroom..although I liked my previous 3G TLs alot, I couldn't live without having AWD or RWD because I can't stand the torque steer.

I think the ELS in the MDX sounds better than the 4G TL tech...the bass/lows were a lot cleaner and the system sounds more well balanced. And..I do miss the power steering wheel which moves up and out of the way for entry and exit. Other than that, the 4G TL has everything my MDX had. I am just worried I made a bad mistake. I trade cars frequently, every six months to 1 year, and I hoping I don't have to live with this discomfort that long. Sigh.

TechnoCat

Hurry up and edit or delete this, before Winslovtec sees it! He has only one answer for any perceived flaw in the 4G TL, especially comfort ones... "If you'd done your research and a thorough enough test drive, you'd have know. So it 's your own fault."

I couldn't get comfortable in the 4G TL seats. It was the big thing that got me frustrated with the other little things and eventually led to a quick (9-month) trade in.

Vegas_TL04

Funny...I actually cross shopped the tl shawd with the S4. Only had premium plus coming in in s tronic and I wanted an imola yellow 6mt with black leather. Plus audi had sh!t interest rates and leases...and I coiuldnt justify spending 56k on the yellow auto they had coming in without memorh or push button start. I owned a 2008 a5 with tech pkg...mmi...b&0 sound...and a 2009 s5 6mt...and I couldn't go backwards without memory and push button start.

I am just hoping the biggest difference in the comfort is the switch from mdx to tl..and not that the car has a poorly designed seat/steering wheel/ergonomic feel. My 2G tl seats were more comfy and better ergonomics..and it only had a tilt wheel.

Stew4HD

I sure don't have that problem. I have been on a couple of long trips.. the seats feel great to me.

LOL @ technocat for keep a miserably uncomfortable car for 9 months! :troutslap

jjsC5

I agree that the seats have more lumbar support than I like even when they are fully deflated, but I have found that after I'm in the car for more than ten minutes of so I do get used to it. But I do wish it were not so "intrusive" also.

Vegas_TL04

I actually measured 4g seats vs 3g and found that they are are at least an inch shorter in height from the front of the seat cushion to the floor with the front of the seat cushion fully tilted up..and the back of the cushion fully tilted down. The steering wheel stays up higher in the fully extended and down position. And footwell room in driver side decreased because of awd. I don't know how acura website lists the interior dims as the same for fwd and awd. Also learned awd seats have thicker bolsters are the seats than the fwd. Really pisses me off. Argggh. Why do they have to go and play with a good thing they had going in 3g tl and current tsx??

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

I have a 6MT 3G and I cant get comfortable worth shite.

My shifting is off, and I have to constantly adjust the seat to suit my feet better.

Vegas_TL04

Sorry to hear that man. All my 3g tl were sticks. Always wished the slushbox was moved towards the rear about 2"..but otherwise was very comfy. I feel your pain.

Litt

Get a 3G headrest? It slides right in.

Vegas_TL04

Headrests not the issue,

Litt

I hear you though. In my Mdx the bottom cushion tilts up to fully support my knees. In the 4g tl the seat won't tilt up high enough. Still I fnd I am comfortable enough, just me.

Vegas_TL04

Thanks for the feedback. Now I don't feel so crazy. Hope I am just panicking and overreacting

winstrolvtec

Being able to find a comfortable position is different than failing to realize the car doesn't have (or doesn't offer) a split/fold rear seat/trunk. The fact that there isn't a split/fold option is a constant, someone who buys the car and can't find/get a comfortable position is not. It's also not necessarily a physical aspect of the car alone as there are two components, the seat AND the individual. See the difference?

Anyways, back to the thread and the OP, let me see if I can actually contribute something to this issue and not just troll. As you know, there is a noticeable difference in the 3G to 4G seats. The 3G seats were larger, more padded, cushier, and had more of an "open" design, by that I mean there was less support but they were also less constrictive. There is also the different head restraint design but since it's not an issue here in particular, we will leave it alone. Basically, the 3G seat is IMO the type of seat you would expect to find in a large SUV, very similar to the MDX even.

It took a bit of playing around, as it would have with any car, but I was able to find an ideal position eventually and overall, I feel that the seats are a better blend of comfort and support, with the latter lacking a bit in the 3G. With the handling and dynamics of the SH, a similar 3G seat design might have had drivers sliding around a bit. I don't suspect that the FWD would have made much (if any) difference but can't say for sure, maybe something to look into it.

A big issue may very well be what you are coming from and have gotten used to. The MDX and it's seats are extremely comfortable, especially for a guy of your height and size. I weigh in your range but a few inches shorter, so I can relate somewhat. IMO, the MDX is almost as comfortable as it gets as far as driver and positioning, by way of the size of the seat and overall cabin space, steering and control placement, plus next to zero constriction. The only seats that I have found to rival those characteristics in a sedan would be found in an upscale full size sedan. Next to that would be a larger luxury mid size sedan than the TL is.

Based on your descriptions, have you tried to telescope the wheel closer to you in the position that you said your legs were the most comfortable in? Don't be afraid to use a position that you might find is rather difficult to get in and out of. Many of us have had to do the same but we use the seat memory feature for easy entry/exist. That is really what it's their for. For example, position one will be the entry/exist position, usually set far back, and position two will be your normal driving position but has to be manually pushed when you enter, then when existing, you hit position one again.

Each key fob is able to recall two seat settings for a total of four, if I am not mistaken. You can set it in the reverse way as well if you like but having the entry/exist position programmed as your first or primary means every time you unlock the door the seat sets to the entry position if you didn't use it when you last got out or if someone else drove the car.

I think you will be fine, as it's a little premature to say for sure and perhaps you just need a bit of time to get readjusted and eventually find a position that works. Buyers remorse usually sets in at some point this early on after buying a new car and getting rid of an old one, and as you noted, it can sometimes cause one to overreact a bit. Not saying you are but just be aware of that and if after some time you still can't find a comfortable position, you might want to consider what needs to be done about it.

potmilkz

you just have to adjust to the new car... that is all

Pseudomaniac

iTrader: (1)

I drive my 3G Type S and 4G SH-AWD back to back frequently. I find that reclined, and slightly more elevated than I would normally sit, the 4G seats are quite comfortable, aside from the intrusive crash-rating friendly head-rests.

Seating position in the two cars is night and day different. I find I want to sit a bit closer on the 3G with the touchscreen controlling everything, and on the 4G, I kick back since most of what I want is accessible reclined, as is the better viewing angle for the gauges and Nav.

I also find the lighter electric steering / heavier steering wheel on the 4G much more comfortable to drive with just your left hand at 9 o'clock, which also changes your seating position a bit.

I don't think either hold a candle to the 2G CL Type S Seats. THOSE were comfortable.

Vegas_TL04

Hey Pseudo...never drove a 2G CL, so I can't compare. Thanks for your feedback. Acura really needs to either go back to the touch screen or place the controller where the idrive or MMI controls are. It is just not very useful to have that big dorky knob hanging off the center stack.

I miss my 3G TL-S stick...but love the power of the TL SHAWD. I am really happy with the look of my 4G now that I have the powder coated black 19's and the windows tinted dark. I also took off the mudflaps. There's a long removable panel thats starts next to the accelerator that I removed last night. It runs under the entire console. i am thinking about taking that off an modifying to allow more foot room since I wear size 14 shoes. I know Acura can't keep the 3G seating/driving position forever, but they are starting to remind me of lexus. Lexus seems to make all their seating for tiny asian adult women (not a slur, my best friends are all korean) that are no more than 5'5. Tried an IS350 and ISF several times and the seats are so shallow, barely any headroom, feels so cramped. The only Lexus I can drive comfortably is my dad's LS460. Forget about my mom's GS350....that thing has NO headroom and the seat cushions are so short and barely tilt up at all.

Vegas_TL04

Hey there..I agree with what you are saying. Thanks for your feedback. The only issue I had with the MDX was while driving for a while with cruise on, I felt like I was reaching a bit for the steering wheel, but I would fix that by just moving the seat up a tad.

I am not at all worried about ingress or egress of the vehicle. I don't mind sliding in or out cockeyed to get in or out. I also realize what you are saying. Acura cannot design the vehicle to suit EVERY individual size or person. But, they really should warn people about the interior differences between the SHAWD and FWD. A person would not be expecting different seating accomodation between the two. And why couldn't they just allow the damn steering wheel to come down another inch like in 2G and 3G? It's just little things like that they change that make no sense, but make a world of difference to the consumer. Also, that new armrest is beyond stupid. That huge opening is completely counter-productive and awkward. Everyone is so worried about cupholders that they compromise the comfort of the vehicle. If I had to live with one big cupholder, that would be just fine.

Vegas_TL04

you are probably right!

krislv

I agree with the OP. The seats arent bad, but I find the coushins are too short and dont support my knees. I really do wish they either tilted up more like the Accord I came from, or had extension like in the Infiniti G.

Vegas_TL04

Wholeheartedly agree man! Modifying and tilting up the seat rails in the front did help quite a bit, but required me to drill holes in the footwell bracket to accomodate the moved hole opening due to the raise in the seat.

krislv

Forgot to mention the seats in the MDX are comfy as hell.

Vegas_TL04

Agree +1000% Too bad I can't have both. Don't really feel like having two payments. Someday

jasonwdp10

I noticed after I tried to put my SHAWD all weather floor mats in my base model.. there was a gap towards the center and I had to buy a new set of floor mats

I know right? Who the hell designed the arm rest? I thought it would have been ok because the leather is soft, but on longer trips, it's really annoying having the "U" opening there, the leather part of the tray also isn't flush with the top so it's awkward to put your arm there since it feels like it's sliding down. I think a nice fix would to either redesign it so you can have a normal shaped and sized arm rest that would still allow you to get to both cup holders (like in the civic or accord or any other normal car). Or make it a normal shaped sliding arm rest that could cover one of the cup holders when necessary (see: audi) to increase comfort on longer trips.

Vegas_TL04

YES, WTF happened to the SLIDING arm rest. So incredibly stupid that Americans are more concerned about their starbucks fitting in their car comfortably rather than the driver. Sometimes I just wanna smack the crap outta manufacturers and/or designers when they make these stupid decisions. The armrest is also TOO LOW. Arghh. I know I am soundling like I'm whining and complaining about everything, but when there is such an OBVIOUS oversight, it really infuriates you. The stupid armrest was the FIRST thing I noticed and hated about the 4G.

Stew4HD

Sounds like you need to follow TechnoCat's lead and dump that god-forsaken-POS car then.. it is causing you entirely too much angst......

Glashub

I just don't understand. I really don't. Just what were you folks doing on the test drive? Seats are important to me. Not just how they fit but how their sprung. I passed on a Genesis because of the seats. I paid attention to what is important to me. I'm tired of people acting like victims. Like they were blindsided by the "unexpected". Sold a bill of goods. The car is what it is and you had ample opportunities to look over every detail.

Vegas_TL04

There's no such thing as a perfect car. You can get close. My S5 was near perfection, except for the gas guzzling. Also really loved my 745i at the time, and have loved my previous gen 3G TLs. But i'm left scratching my head with some of the choices Acura made on the 4G. It's all opinion, and all subjective. One person trophy is another's trash. I like the car, but not loving it yet. I am just trying to get people's feedback and confirm that maybe I'm not imagining these things. And so far, it sounds like I'm not. I never called the car a POS, nor implied it. Fortunately I do have the means to "dump" it in a worst case scenario, but not my wish.

Vegas_TL04

many times when you are on a test-drive, it is impossible to adjust the seat JUST RIGHT where you are perfectly comfortable. Apparently not all of us have the amazing foresight as others and are extremely able to instantly tell from a 20 min test drive if the car is great for them or not. I just don't understand people that are so completely enamored or wrapped up in defending the purchase they love, that they can't take constructive criticism. I noticed the armrest right away, and hated it, but it wasn't a deal breaker. I'm not crying wolf, but some of these decisions made (i.e. the armrest) are just NOT thought through well enough. I accept full responsibility for my purchase. But as a 9 times previous Acura owner, you develop and expectation of your purchase, and so far the comfort is falling short. Now, if I completely switched Manufacturers I would expect an overnight test drive and to borrow the car before I make a purchase. I didn't feel it was totally necessary since I have been very happy with my previous 9 Acuras.

jasonwdp10

You live in LA, you should know that in this county, test drives are short. I've never been able to get more than a few rounds around the block, and usually no more than 20-25 minutes at most driving around. Usually around nicely paved roads and no freeway (at least for new cars). In those 20-25 minutes, can you really:
-Determine whether or not the seat will be comfortable for long distance driving?
-Determine that the armrest is comfortable for lengthy travels?
-Find a street with pot holes to drive over to see whether or not the suspension is too stiff? or that the car may be too noisy?
-Figure out that the base and shawd models differ in front and rear foot space?
-Figure out that the shawd gets poor gas mileage?
-Figure out that large luggage won't fit in the trunk due to the suspension bumps and the intruding speaker cover from the top? (unless you seriously bring your large luggages with you on all your test drives)
-Figure out that the leather, while comfortable & soft, is whimpy and you need to take care in how you sit and move around in the seat?
-bring friends with you to realize this car actually sits 4, not 5?
-Find a small/tight parking lot to realize the TL is longer than vehicles like the MDX?

This is in addition to seeing how the car drives, checking visibility/blind spots, steering feel, acceleration (also passing, but since it's usually local streets, speed limit is 35-40mph.. no chance to test 45-65+..), driving very carefully incase some moron decides to abruptly cut you off even though he sees you in a new car, brake feel, road noise, playing with the radio, nav (oh but wait, you can't put destinations in nor can you see how slowly it updates routes in the quick changing ramps in LA freeways until you buy!), bluetooth (oh but wait you can't sync for calls or music until you buy!), a/c etc etc etc..

So yes, many of the items were unexpected, and can only be known after keeping the car for awhile. The only real way to know these things is for the dealers to let us "test drive" the cars for a long weekend where we can drive to vegas and back since we'll have the time, distance, and luggage to realistically be able to see all the cars attributes.

Those few gripes aside, I still love the car, but I think you're being unrealistic to think everyone can figure out all problems that a car may or may not have from a short 20 some minute test drive.

Glashub

Well, Vegas, I suppose my frustration isn't with you so much as its with others before you who act like they were lied to and taken to the cleaners when they discover the car will or will not do certain things.

jasonwdp10

Nah I don't think I was mislead or lied to, I just think some things need time to tell and some things simply cannot be done on a new car.

jasonwdp10

btw a slight side note. So today, I parked next to my co-workers 3GTL-S (which was one of the cars I wanted), and had a chance to compare the cars a bit (mainly the rear area).

I realize that the 4GTL's roof actually slopes a lot more than the 3GTL. I didn't measure them but it looked like the 4g's rear becomes much smaller and coupe-like, and the 3g stays larger. The rear windows and rear windshield on the 3g look larger than the 4g. The 3g trunk area is much more boxy and less angular than the 4g. Just an observation, seems like they went for form over function for the 4g vs the 3g.

Glashub

I know you don't, Jason, but I think we know both who the biggest rabble-rouser about being lied to is, though.

Vegas_TL04

Couldn't agree more!!! Thanks buddy. All very true.

Vegas_TL04

I ALWAYS do my homework. Unfortunately, I didn't nit-pick this 4G TL to death. I was happy with the 12 styling change, and with a few teaks (19" Black rims, dark tint, remove mudflaps, etc) I knew the car would be hot!!! Like I said before, I had an expectation that so far hasn't been fufilled.

jasonwdp10

btw why did you trade your S5(how bad was the gas mileage?)? I was thinking about possibly picking up a used one sometime. My gfs A5 is over 3 years old and still trouble free.

Vegas_TL04

To be honest, it was costing me so much $. Every oil change was $250 bucks due to almost 10 qts of synthetic. Plus, having the V8 coupe, it just SUCKED gas like crazy and I have a long commute every day to work. I absoutely loved it an missed it. I got into a relationship and after owning two houses at the same time, commuting long distances between 2 offices, it was becoming a money pit. My 2009 S5 was trouble free. I also had a 2008 A5 Tech w/ Cinammon Milano Leather, B&O Sound, Carbon Atlas, 6MT, Premium Pkg, etc etc. It was also trouble free. Seriously considered the S4 in Imola Yellow, but to be honest, Desert Audi in Vegas is HORRENDOUS and VERY SHADY to deal with, and Henderson Audi is so completely pompous now that they are a Lambo dealer also, it just totally rubbed me the wrong way. Then they him-hawed about getting me a stick and wanted me to the the Yellow S Tronic coming in, then didn't want to move much on the sticker. Plus, it was only a Premium Plus, and didnt even have memory seats, push-button start, and was an auto. if Im going to pay 55K for an S4 with auto and alcantara I don't want, then I might as well pay 57K, wait for a yellow prestige pkg in 6MT.

My 2009 S5 was Black w/ Magma Red 6MT w/ Tech, prem, B&O...LOVED IT!!!

Stew4HD

I would never drive a car off the lot unless I really loved it. I sat in mine a long time, rode around, played with everything...etc. It's too big on an expense to buy and hope I like it.... but hey, that's just me.

You will find other comrades here that find lots of fault with the car... it's not perfect, as you said.. but close enough to perfect, for me.

"... and that's all I got to say about that.."