saturno_v

For me, considering the direction of the brand, my 4G could be my first and last Acura.

The current generation TL is an absolutely great car, but considering how Honda is managing Acura, I believe it is great more as a result of an accident than accurate planning.

Let's not discuss the style...for me was one of the strong points, it is distinctive but, hey, everyone has his/her own opinions.

The brand does not have a clear mission, "smart luxury" is a rather vague concept (let's say nonsensical)

You cannot be "almost" luxury" or luxury not all the way...it does not cut it in the current automotive industry.

The Acura SUV lineup is the most well thought out and "logical"...it needs less work...the disaster eally hits in the regular car line.

The ILX and TSX do not offer any real reason to go to a premium brand as both are FWD only models...a bit more accessories and better fit and finish....too little to differentiate yourself from the generalist herd....why Honda keep its killer SH-AWD system off these (especially the TSX) is a mystery to me....a clearly masochistic choice...I personally know 2 families that were strongly attracted by the TSX Sportwagon but no AWD option.....a great thank you note from Audi dear Acura, you lost 2 clients right there....

The TL is a bit more correctly positioned vs. the competition...being a tweener car it can compete on price with A4 and 3 Series and in size with the bigger boys....the FWD TL is a good competitor to the FWD A6 for example....

The SH-AWD version makes the TL a serious sport sedan contender but....but...but....in order to "defend" and differentiate the totaly useless RL which mechanically and in size is identical to the TL, they have to keep the option list more limited in the TL (you do not get the adaptive cruise control or the electric adjustment for the steering wheel for example).

The result is that still nobody buys the RL and Acura may lose the gadget snob customer for the TL....good job Acura!!!

To wrap things up, as we discussed before, the lack of a coupe and a roadster, no V8, no large sedan is killing the brand.

As for the FWD arcitecture, up to the TL with optional SH-AWD can still be used in a future generation as long as you make a more powerful top version (400+ HP neighborhood) and maybe switching to turbocharged engines for more low end torque.

The RL needs to be ditched yesterday in its current form....and it is damaging the full potential fo the TL because of the gadget options I discussed before...Acura please put that car out of its misery, you really need a RWD/SH-AWD platform for a large sedan with bigger engines.

In my view, the TSX should become a true A4/3 Series competitor, meaning SH-AWD and powerful versions.

The ILX an Audi A3 competitor, with the AWD option as well.

Make the TL, even in its current architecture, a fully fledged 5 Series/A6/Infiniti M/Lexus GS competitor given its size...ok with a sub 300 HP FWD entry level but raise up the ante in accessories and engine options...maybe a turbocharged 300+ HP 3.0 V6 "middle version" (think 535 or A6 3.0. T Quattro) and a 3.5-3.7 bi-turbocharged V6 to play with the big boys (550 or S6), no need to make an M5 or RS6 fighter....
The buying public does not get the "tweener" concept, just kill it and raise the bar.


A TSX coupe to go against A5/3 Series Coupe

Bring back the S2000 successor.

Maybe a small coupe, a la RSX with a SH-AWD version.....a killer little car...

RL with proper layout and engines if you want to go against the 7 Series, S Class, Lexus LS, etc...

The NSX as Halo Car (think Audi R8)

Do not get me wrong....Acura should do all the hybrid versions of their models they think would sell well but do not bet the brand only on these....it would not work

Six Shifter

I think you already know that answer to that question as it applies to me.

weather

Well, after having the 2006 TSX, 2009 TSX, 2012 TL (now with a 2013 RDX)...I am getting a little Acura fatigued. Don't get me wrong, I love Acura's and especially the treatment from my dealer. That being said, I am getting curious to try something different for a little while. Who knows, maybe the RLX or the TLX will win my heart and I'll stay loyal to Acura but I have been getting curious about other brands.

I love Acura's pricing and handling but I sometime wished that it wasn't suffering from that identity crisis. Why are Lexus, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Infinity = luxury while Acura is just associated with a souped up Honda? We (owners) know better but its not getting the recognition it deserves.

I haven't given up on Acura yet and seeing the latest Accord has given me hope and maybe I'll stick around but they better bring more to the game with the next vehicle. Seeing what are being offered in much cheaper cars (and now the Honda lineup), I'll be expecting some premium features or else, I'll walk (well, not literally because I'll be buying a car *lol*)

atruedsgb

It really depends on what Acura brings with the 2014 TLX, in terms of styling and tech. If the 2013 Accord is any indication of what's to come, then I'm encouraged.

If I'm not satisfied, then a used 2013 S6 will get a serious look when I car shop again at the end of 2014.

SV-AWD

I traded my '10 TL and got a '10 CTS-V...8 months later I traded back for a '12 Advance. Acura does a good job combining quality, performance, styling, and technology as good as any manufacturer. I'll stay loyal to Acura for the foreseeable future. Wished I'd been able to buy the RLX now and not have to wait till Spring 2013.

714tman

I just want to comment on direction...

I had a loaner 2013 RDX while my 2012 TL was being serviced. I was pleased that the navigation systems are almost identical, except that the RDX can also read out text messages!

To my utter disappointment, as soon as I started moving in the RDX, most of the navigation, audio, and phone features that I frequently use in my TL became grayed out on the RDX. Acura is now forcing users to use the voice recognition to perform simple tasks while the car is moving.

Crippling the navi interface is a complete dealbreaker for me. If the new Acura lineup (including the 2014 MDX and TLX also include these lockouts when the car is moving, we may begin to look elsewhere for our next car. We plan on trading in my wife's 2006 MDX for a 2014 MDX when it comes out, but if they cripple the nav, we will reconsider.

I hope Acura is listening.

docboy

I agree 100% on the nav. IMHO the nav in my prior 2005 TSX was the best esp with its touchscreen. The nav in my 4G TL is a step backwards due to the lack of a touchscreen, but its higher resolution and easy ability to use the nav in motion gives it a pass, esp when other automakers took away that feature (ie. IMHO Lexus is the worst).

The voice feature is currently a gimmick, the system is just too slow to respond and has no where close to a useable and accurate "listening" rate. It's faster if I push the buttons myself.

To me, not being able to use the nav while the car is in motion is a DEALBREAKER, no matter how great the car is. Otherwise the nav is just an expensive ornament.

py0413

You can also take LEXUS off your future shopping list because their Navi system does the same thing. I could only make phone calls if contacts are pre-programmed to speed dial lists. Or you have to use the voice system and read out the numbers to make a call. (the only number I remember is my own number and home number, nothing else, so it's useless to me) Last summer, while on a road trip, we were trying to find a place to have dinner and I hit the voice button to ask for a restaurant, it told me the system can only work if the car isn't moving. That was about the last time I really used the Navi to find anything.

Pseudomaniac

iTrader: (1)

As great a car as the 4G is, I don't think it has much of a leg up on a loaded Maxima or Altima these days. Honda used to lead, and new designs seem to be falling in line with convention.

I miss the quirkiness and ingenuity that sold me on my first Del Sol, and hooked me into being almost a 20 year customer at this point.

If they can build a 13 second TL for 40k that gets 35mpg, corners in the snow, and doesn't have some half-ass engineered nav/entertainment combo instead of just allowing direct smartphone integration - I'll give them my money. Otherwise, I see a used M6 and a 40mpg commuter a-la Mazda 3 taking the place of my TL.

Limelight

As a second time Acura purchaser, I just don't get the hard-on everyone has for the new Accord while often slamming the Acura brand.

I test drove a fully loaded Maxima and thought it was tinny and boring. It was just a "nice" car -nothing more.

I have always been a Honda guy and they lost me to Toyota in the mid 2000's with their boring designs. Acura took a risk with styling and get heat for it.

We all bought our TL's for many of the same reasons - I say wait for the new TLX and RLX to be released before judging where he brand is headed.

That all said, sometimes another brand's vehicle just speaks to you and that's OK. It speaks more of that brand and often less of the brand you're leaving...

Edward'TLS

It's really sad for the supposingly upscale premium Acura brand that, right up to now, there is still nothing available in the lineup for those existing TL/RL owners who have made more money and want to move upscale to a even more luxury/premium/larger/powerful sedan.

docboy

I agree with saturno_v on most points. Acura's current SUV lineup is well executed. The current MDX and RDX are nicely done, though I wish the RDX kept SH-AWD; the insignificant and chopped ZDX was a little bizarre. With the current X1 and soon to be Q3, would be interesting to see if Acura will introduce a sub RDX SUV, though unlikely given there is no sub CR-V to base it off of. The TSX Sportswagon definitely needs SH-AWD to remain competitive with Audi/BMW.

The current sedan lineup is questionable, too much price overlap and not enough differentiation. The 4G TL SH-AWD 6MT hits the sweet spot with 5 series size and 335/near S4 performance.

So I would tend to agree with the op, the 4G TL may be my last Acura sedan. If I decide to get a SUV, I will entertain the MDX, RDX, or Cajun. If I were to go for another sedan or a coupe, to be honest the S4, S5, TT, and 911 are on my radar.

But if Acura decides to lock out its nav on all its models, then I very well will leave Acura for good.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Acura needs to bring the fun back.

keep the high output V6 6MT SH-AWD (possibly a wagon)

stars_fan

A 14 MDX & RLX will be in my future. Assuming my wife doesn't wreck our current cars before those release.

I'm also going to ditch the z06 as soon as I can get my hands on the new NSX.

pimpin-tl

Acura and Infiniti are both tier 1 luxury brands while BMW, Benz, Audi, Lexus are tier 2. Acura will do well soon again. They all go through a midlife crysis stage should I say. Infiniti did in the 2000s. I haves owned Infinitis, Audis too and IMHO Acura has been my favorite.

Treblig

I would have to agree. The jury is still out for me too. My intro to Acura came at the expense of a totaled VW Passat 4Motion Wagon. I really wanted another 4wd car and shopped Audi, Volvo and BMW. But I was smitten by the look of the 3rd gen TL and the quality, features and bang for the buck that it provided in comparison (despite the lack of AWD). I took home a 2005 TL ASPEC and loved it. Still wanting 4wd, I traded it for a 2006 RL ASPEC and loved it even more. That is until I traded for my current 2012 TL. Oh I occasionally peek at Audi's A4/A6 and VW's CC (oddly enough), but Acura still offers me the best all around value.

I am holding out hope that with the new RLX and TLX, Acura finds its mojo again and if that be the case, I will be sticking around.

CerberusKy

iTrader: (1)

For me it was not to hard a choice... I wanted a sedan, I need awd where I live, and I like to drive a stick-shift. I was left with Subaru WRX / Legacy GT, Audi S4, Acura TL sh-awd, or ??? I think that was it. The Audi S4 was too expensive in my opinion for a car that I do not trust the reliably of. The WRX had to harsh a ride for my liking, and was a little to small, I never had the chance to test drive the Legacy GT. That being said, I wish the TL as a little more fun to drive, but I like it well enough. Next car maybe the Infinity M-56, if I can get over driving an automatic.

012TL-GLM

I shop everything when its time for a new ride - no brand loyalty here. If Acura has what I want next time I feel like burning $40K I'll stick with them, if they don't, onto the next.

SeismicGuy

This is our second TL (had our 2000 for 12 great years) but it has always been disconcerting to me that Acura has not been as focused and committed as even Lexus and Infiniti have recently become. The last time I got "excited" about an Acura offering was the introduction of the ZDX. While it may not be everyone's cup of tea it certainly is distinctive and attention grabbing. Acura does not do enough of these bold statements on a consistent basis.

JM2010 SH-AWD

If Acura continues to improve the TL I could easily see buying another. To me, there is not a reasonably priced, reliable sedan that offers the TL's combination of day to day livability and performance, with the exception of the G, which was the other car in my final decision.

For those concerned about the lock out on the nav when the car is moving, you'd better buy something quick. Under pressure from the gov't, all the manufacturers are moving this direction. I know Lexus already has; the others are certain to follow, including Acura.

Rocketsfan

I think this thread is an example of why no car can be everything to all people. I've probably got one of the oldest 3G TL's still running on these forums (bought in October 2003), and never really fell for the 4G TL. After the "re-design" in 2012, I started "not hating" the car's looks, but by then I just said there were cars out there that offered more for around the same price. Now I'm wondering if I can even hang on until the 5G - probably not. I'm looking at a Cadillac ATS now, but not convinced that's the right car, either. Outside of that, I'm waiting for the next Infiniti G, which, last I heard, was to be a sprintime arrival.

I like the Acura brand's bang-for-the-buck approach to options and pricing, but they're in trouble now since you've got Kias, Hyundais, and Nissans with more options and equipment than an Acura does. Acura can call it "smart luxury" if they want, but they've fallen behind. Hell, the new Honda Accord has more optional equipment and "near-luxury" gadgets than the new RDX and ILX .... absolutely makes no sense to me. If the next TL goes and adds all these items, then I think they'll price a lot of bargain shoppers like me out. They also wouldn't be "smart luxury", but be competing with the Lexus, BMW, etc. of the world, and I really don't think they want to do that.

listrats

Im sorry to sound rude, but some of you are a piece of work.

The car is not just about what cool gadgets it has in it because then yea the Maxima is identical, have you guys seen how shoddy the plastics are in the Maxima. Everything adds to the price of the car. If have gadgets are the only things you guys want then of course dont get a premium brand youll pay alot more money. And if you only want speed go get an Evo or something.

The 2012 TL is quality. The interior appointments are high end. The Maxima and even the infinitis alot of it is much cheaper and ugly looking plastics. Look at the maximas plastic in between the two front seats. Its the same plastic they use on the 99 dollar per month Altima from 2011.

The TL is above average in every aspect just not clear leader in any aspect. It the best well rounded car, price, performance, luxury, and "premium". Please dont ever again say that me 45,000 dollar car is not nearly as good as a 25,000 maxima.

JM2010 SH-AWD

I have to agree as to the general principle you state. I currently have a Hyundai Sonata rental in my driveway. The first time I've driven one of this generation. Yes, it has gizmos galore, but it's not even close to an Accord or Camry, much less an Acura. Nothing but cheap looking plastic inside, the driving dynamics, well - they leave a lot to desire, the seats are crummy, and the car generally lacks the well-crafted feel and refinement of the better Japanese makes. I'll be putting 600 miles on it over the next few days, but first impressions are that it's a big step for Hyundai, but again, not close to Honda/Toyota.

Rocket_man

I agree on both points. If someone wants a BMW go for it. Pay the higher costs and suffer the lower reliability. I did that once but won't go back there again.

There are several anti-lockout after-market units for the Lexus that will allow a user to unlock the nav while in motion. I would think someone will come up with one for the Honda/Acura. I like the 1G TSX's nav where I can make any changes at anytime and often do. Can't always stop to change your desitnation and voice commands are limiting. But big government is going to regulate this so I think Acura is just getting ahead of the curve. The one curve they are ahead on!

DopeAcura

Man. I love my TL too much for this thread

Glashub

I've owned 3 Acura's and now own a Genesis. The V-8/RWD experience is so much fun. The handling is a little unrefined (to me) but it is chock full of gadgets I rationalized away when I owned Acuras. Well, now that I have them...I use them and like them.

Now to be fair; there are gadgets and then there is the execution of the gadgets. For example, backup camera. Check on both cars but the TL camera is hi-def, the Genesis camera is lo-def and takes a beat to load.

Air conditioning. Check on both cars but the Acura air kicks butt in 30 seconds on the hottest days even after sitting in the sun. The Genesis can take 120 seconds and on the hottest days not really cool the car down until I've driven quite a bit.

So in the pursuit of tech be sure that the car has quality tech implemented well.

Edward'TLS

Acura + V8/RWD = perfect.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

FIFY a

parasitius

The thing is at least for the Lexus I looked into the nav bullshit is defeatable by clipping a wire behind the nav unit. There is also a Konami up down up up down whatever code to defeat the nasty beeping when you get in... that changes everything for me, 15 minutes of work to never get harassed again? Wonderful. Kind of like iPhone has to be jailbroken.

MugenSi08

Agreed on RWD or SH-AWD coupe or roadster.

sockpuppet

OP - well considered post! I have to agree with you on most points. It's also generated some decent commentary. I only wish I knew someone at Acura that I could forward the link to.

Devil Dog 21

When it's time to shop for a new car I'll give bonus points to Acura for the reliability factor of my 2 current Acuras but I'll primarily look at what the current offerings are. I think an under-rated competitor is Cadillac as they are pushing hard for the same segment and have really expanded their technology offerings. I'm already itching to give the next CTS a drive.

012TL-GLM

next vehicle purchase may be SUV, and MDX is def on that list of possibilities

jspagna1

"It the best well rounded car, price, performance, luxury, and "premium".

That's exactly what I said when I traded my 2010 SH-AWD TL w/Tech Package for my 2012 Maxima SV. Best bang for the buck IMO and it didn't cost me $45,000. If you paid $45,000 for your car, you paid too much. And I think you mean't $40,895 Maxima ?

pimpin-tl

Yep, but the Acura isn't as tinny as the Maxima. I have had many Maximas, and won't own another.

jspagna1

The two key words "as tinny". All new cars are tinny. My 11 4Runner is tinny compared to my 97 4Runner. That's just the way they are building vehicles today. I've owed a 92 Maxima and the guy down the street bought it for his daughter and still drives it. We still own our 03 Maxima and now I'm on my 3rd Maxima. Went with the TL because I wanted something different but after 2.5 years wife found it too uncomfortable. Nissan needed to go back to their roots when it came to the Maxima. After the 5th Gen Maxima car lost it's way. Now it's back to being close to it's original design.
I think Acura has done the same with the TL. The 2nd Gen & 3rd Gen TL were great cars. I think Acura needs to look back at it's past and go back to it's roots for the next TL.

saturno_v

I had a 2002 Maxima SE 6 Speed for years and it was a fabolous car for the money.

The FWD TL is comparable to the FWD Maxima however the TL has higher end finishing and materials.

The SH-AWD TL onthe other side is on another league performance wise compared to the Maxima and who think otherwise is deluding himself/herself.

What really kills the current Maxima is the CVT...otherwise it is a very good car for the money.

Glashub

Genesis is not tinny. It puts TL to shame in that regard.

Limelight

Perhaps now - report back in a few years when its falling apart, everything is rattling, weatherstripping is hanging loose etc. if this is your first Hyundai, you may be in for a surprise on how poorly it holds together over time. The quality of material is no comparison to an Acura - I've owned both so that's my personal experience and opinion.

At least if you say Hyundai fast enough, it kinda sounds like Honda lol.

UNEVAKNO

Here's my story.....I am sold on Honda products because they are solid vehicles period. I have owned several vehicles to include American , German and other Japanese brands. I drive my cars hard street/track and I have never had a major issue with any Honda product. I have owned a 94 Honda Accord coupe, 02 RSX, 05 TSX, 10 TSX V6, 12 TL SH-awd and I loved them all. We can go all day long complaining about what car does what or has what gadget but at the end of the day we can honestly say Acura / Honda makes a good product. I was sold on Acura's acclaimed "safety cage" When I witnessed a NSX going over 100 mph hit Ford Probe broad side splitting it in half with the driver of the NSX being the only survivor and I survived a 8 roll turn over down a hillside in my RSX.

It is a very competitive market out there especially with technology advancing every 5 minutes. I just wish that the technology didnt have so much control over the car for example Navi, Driveablity,Top speed etc. Acura has a tough job staying unique as a brand but still maintaining the value/reliability that is their trademark. The design aspect of the cars have went backwards in some models but thats nothing a little creativity wont fix. I used to hate the design of the 4G TL and said I would never buy one. I just bought a CBP 12 TL SH-awd Adv when Acura uplifted the face/ ass and I love it. Even though the TSX V6 was faster I will admit the TL handles better. Now that I lowered it and changed the wheels it actually turns heads! Drivers of other high dollar luxury brands slow down to get a better look and children are riding in the back seat of cars pointing as I drive by.The TL just has more swag. I like that....I like that alot. For now I will remain loyal because Acura is listening and full of surprises.