UNEVAKNO

Proof they are listening prompted the redesign of the TL fullhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1Xgnz1IyIQ

Glashub

What basis do you have to write that? Which Hyundai did you own and what year?

I have a 2005 Elantra owned since brand new that has never been in the shop for anything other than maintenance. I've had the Genny for 18 months and have not been to dealer since I bought it. I'll take it in for 15,000 for the books.

The quality of materials surpasses the TL in many areas.

I've owned 3 TL's and each had to go to the shop multiple times in the 1st year.

Your fear mongering is wasted on me.

Why would you try to do that anyways? What's really going on? Insecure about your car choice? You'll never find a post from me bashing anybodies choice and I am always fair in my reporting about the TL vs. the Genny.

Hyundai Genesis Outscores Competitors, Becomes Consumer Reports' Top-Rated 'Upscale Sedan'

The Hyundai Genesis outscored four competitors to become Consumer Reports top-rated vehicle in the competitive "Upscale Sedan" category. The Genesis, which achieved an "Excellent" overall road test score, now outranks 12 vehicles from Lexus, Acura, Lincoln and others including the Lexus ES 350.

Link to press release - http://www.garyromehyundai.com/hyund...-outscores.cfm

Notice the keyword "Acura" in there. Go troll somewhere else bud. People like you make the world a worse place to live.

Another for you -

Consumer Reports: Hyundai Genesis New Top-Rated Upscale Sedan, Bests Lexus ES 350

http://jalopnik.com/5124031/consumer...s-lexus-es-350

And that 2005 Elantra still doesn't have a rattle in it and has no loose seams, tears or other material or quality issues.

One more thing since I find your post so offensive (particularly the lol); I came across this in another part of the forum which you posted along with pics of your new TL -

"
My new 2012 TL Elite - Graphite Luster Metallic
"Hi all,

I'm new to the site and thought I'd post some pictures of my new 2012 TL Elite (Canadian version of the Advance) in Graphite Luster Metallic.

I previously owned a 2000 EL Premium which I traded in for a 2007 Camry SE-V6. I then traded in the Camry to pick up the TL.

It's stock - I got the rear splash guards, protection package, and 45% tint on all windows (had 35% on the Camry and found it was too dark for my taste).

I don't plan on doing any mods to it other than getting the calipers painted black and possibly some debadging.

I'm looking forward to being a part of the forum.

Cheers."

No where do you mention a Hyundai. It was actually a Camry you owned, right? But you said you've owned a Hyundai and that's what you based your condesending post on, correct?

http://www.acura-tsx.com/forums/show...php?p=14057009

silverrevlis

If the new TL isn't a homerun (Accord Touring+) I'm off to either Audi or BMW when my lease is up. My wife and I try to stay in the same brand and lease at the same time. With that being said, the new MDX better be a hit for her too!!

CPR

Love my SH-AWD TL/Tech/2012; couldn't be happier
It's actually, quieter, & built MUCH better than my '09/TL
No more sunroof rattle, or squeaks, of any kind; body integrity is flawless!
For $38,300, just try & find a better all around vehicle, technology, etc.

Limelight

Glashub - thanks for your many replies and links. This is an Acura forum - I have no interest in reading about Hyundai's.

Not sure why you took my post so personally. I'm happy you like your car - that's really all that matters. You said that the 'Genesis is not tinny. It puts TL to shame in that regard'. That was your opinion and I'm OK with that. I didn't take that comment personally.

I then said my own personal opinion from experience - I would hope you'd be OK with that too. We do both live in democratic societies.

I've owned many cars - the Camry was my last one, but I owned an Accent in the past and will not return to the brand. The Accent is not the Genesis, and I understand that - but I also have friends who drive current model Hyundai's across the entire lineup who are experiencing the same quality issues I did with my Accent. That's not an opinion - that's a fact. Whether you choose to agree with me or it is not a debatable issue.

I actually like the Genesis - had I had confidence in the brand, I would have considered the R-Spec Genesis. But I don't, and so I didn't. It's unfortunate you aren't mature enough to debate differing opinions without making it personal.

And the joke about saying Hyundai fast enough - that was a joke a friend of mine said once to me when I was driving the Accent. I found it funny and could take a joke - apparently you can't.

But I love my Acura - thanks for asking!

Glashub

There you go again..."mature enough". Make it personal? I can too and you won't like it.

Facts are supported by..well...facts. Unless you post links or references from your "friends" it is just hearsay.

It does put the TL to shame when it comes to heft of build and sound proofing. If you read all my posts you'll see that I give the TL props for the quality of the tech it does have and ride/handling.

You wrote "Perhaps now - report back in a few years when its falling apart, everything is rattling, weatherstripping is hanging loose etc." like that was a fact but like all of your other facts this wasn't backed up by reference material.

What was your motivation for that? To make me feel bad? To ruin my day. To create fear and uncertainty? What ever your motivation it wasn't noble and added no value. I have proven you wrong.

I am a fan of Acura. I like underdogs. I will be looking at the 2014 and am hoping it will be a great car. I have a right to be here and I offer an honest opinion of the Genesis. It has it's strengths and its weaknesses. But it is not tinny.



It could be argued that a car that needs to be rationalized, defended, explained and justified may not be that great of a car.

Limelight

I have no intention of hijacking this thread. I'm very happy you like your car and haven't had any issues with it. I like mine and I'm very happy with it. Hopefully this is a point in which we can both agree.

weather

^^^ Thanks guys...I don't like seeing personal attacks on this board. We are all professionals and mature and we can share info about our likes and dislikes without slinging mud back and forth.

docboy

Alright, I nominate weather to be a moderator

weather

^^^ Thanks for the vote of support In all seriousness, we all benefit by having great discussions and less of the personal attacks. I know that we occasionally get caught up in the heat of the moment and passion but we often need to take a step back, a deep breath and move on to constructive discussions

Limelight

^^^ Hopefully another point we can agree on

weather

You betcha! BTW...where in Canada are you from? An East Coaster here.....

Six Shifter

Unfortunately, I have to leave the Acura family to obtain my AWD Coupe. At least it still starts with an "A",

weather

Six Shifter....Nothing to be sorry at all....only for those of us who won't have the pleasure of driving an Audi

pimpin-tl

I agree as we own both. My 2012 is much quieter than the 09.

But I will also mention the quality of the materials is where Hyundai falls short. The buttons feel cheap, the leather is thinner, it is just poor quality. It maybe built well but it's the materials that Hyundai is using still do not pass Lexus, Acura and others.

Limelight

I'm from Toronto...

docboy

The S5 is a beautiful machine. No sorries there!

Now if Acura had the decency to make a TSX coupe (or wagon) w/SH-AWD, turbo 4, and 6MT...

Steven Bell

iTrader: (2)

Guys,

This thread started out so good-why are we getting personal?


You all know how I feel about this. If it gets down to name calling and off topic, some of you will get an Acurazine vacation to contemplate this.



Glashub, besides not getting personal, you need to learn to use the multi-quote button. It is in the lower right hand corner of each posting. It allows you to answer more than one person in a single replay.



Keep it clean boys, keep it clean.

Six Shifter

To be honest, I would have taken whatever hit necessary on my TL if Acura would have come out with a 2 door variant ... same color/options, same engine, same tranny ... same everything save the two rear doors. For some, the Sedan is a necessary evil. For those of us (me) who use whatever side of the brain that craves the intimacy of a coupe ... Acura has abandoned us (me). I drove 7 different examples of the MY '13 S5 before committing, and I hope to be as happy in my decision as I have been in my (total) 485K miles of driving the Acura nameplate since the purchase of my '90 Legend Coupe.

Edward'TLS

Come on, be realistic.

Hyundai is an economy brand, whereas Lexus and others are Tier-1 premium brands, and Acura is a Tier-2 premium brand.

As a result, it is understandable that the materials that Hyundai uses will never be on par with those from Lexus, Acura, and others.

But what Hyundai doesn't have in material quality, Hyundai makes it up in affordable pricing and propulsion technology level (such as V8, RWD, high-tech 8-speed gear box, etc.). Acura is still unable to offer the latter, not even at any price.

Glashub

Let me take a moment to clarify why I moved to the Genesis. The SH-AWD was perfect for the PNW but the lack of sound-proofing made the rough roads of LA unbearable. Within 4500 miles the TL developed 3 rattles in the drivers door and the dash. Having had 2 other TL's that had to go to the dealership multiple times to fix rattles, I was unwilling to go down that path again.

In July 2011, based on the excellent reviews of the 2012 TL I was going to trade in my 2010 in for an SH-AWD Advance. However the dealers would budge on the price. From the Genesis forums I learned that if I participated in the Hyundai Think Tank I would be given $1500 towards a Hyundai. All I had to do was give feedback to Hyundai about a couple of proposed designs and fabric choices.

Brilliant that Think Tank...getting feed back from actual consumers and rewarding them. Why didn't Acura think of that?

While in the Think Tank I learned how I could save another $1000. Then I was offered a $1500 comp. car incentive. Finally Hyundai let me put $5000 on Amex so I could get cash back (Acura said "no").

I walked out with a 2012 V-8, RWD, in July 2011, after the mentioned incentives and the usual haggling, for less than $39,000 not including plates and registration. A few days after that I received a trade-in gurantee cert.

The car has too many features to list including that collision thing on the RL.
Self adjusting/Self leveling HID headlights
Rain sensing wipers
Cooled drivers seat
Auto-hold
Folding mirrors
Sensors front and back for parking
Electronic seat and steering wheel adjustment with memory

I could go on
Horsepower 385 @ 6500
Size 4.6L/282
Torque 333 @ 3500
Type Gas V8
Buttery smooth 8 speed

Outside of the seats and the quality of the leather (Acura is superior) I see no real difference in quality of materials and quality of assembly. And if rattles are an indicator...well no rattles or squeaks.

You guys need to get out of the dark ages about Hyundai and Kia. Take a chance, take a risk, leave your comfort zone..drive one.

All of that said; the ride and handling are rather unrefined. The Acura is more fun to drive really and viscerally. I like the logic of the Acura dash layout better.

However, for me in LA, the Genesis is a better car. Quieter and solid like a rock.

saturno_v

A fairly simplistic couple of statements there....

The Genesis is Hyundai offering in the premium segment and the fit and finish is overall comparable with the competition and that include the Germans...you may find a detail lacking here and another better there but on average is comparable and it has even been clearly pointed out by car magazines.

The fact that Hyundai produce the economical Accent and Elantra has nothing to do with how the Genesis is built, there is no "obvious" relationship....you do not judge cars by the brand but on their own merit...the Genesis is a very good car in that segment, regardless of the nameplate, period.

I drove a Genesis several times...not tinny at all, very well finished, nice materials and leather and very solid feel....I would not buy it because I'm not attracted to the styling and because it is RWD only but ii is a damn fine automobile in that market space.


The only reason Acura is not considered "Tier 1" luxury (a marketing segmentation) is because it does not offer higher end products (no V8, No RWD, no expensive coupes) but, again, this has nothing to do with evaluating an Acura product compared to others in the same segment....in simpler terms, an Acura is not automatically inferior to a Mercedes competing in the same category nor I do "obviously expect" the Acura fit and finish to be worse or more economical just because Mercedes makes a V12 sedan....cars should evaluated on their own merit, not because of a badge.....

gibjer

Paying off the TL in 3ish years and will be getting a cheapo commuter and a used Z06.

I'm no longer going to try to have a fun commuter, I'm calling the spade a spade and buying two cars.

DEman19901

I agree about the Genesis being better than the TL. Hyundai needs to make Genesis a separate brand as Acura is to Honda and what Lexus is to Toyota.

SeismicGuy

As I probably posted before, when it finally came time to replace my wife's 2000 TL, we seriously considered a Genesis based on lots of positive reviews and my own research. I am one of those types that get attached to a car and would have been just fine keeping the 2000 TL (with only 80,000 miles) for another few years but my wife deserved a new car.

Anyway, while we had been happier with the Acura than almost any other car we owned, the 2009 styling had turned her off. Moreover, we thought it would be boring to stay with the same brand which almost resulted in our not even looking at a new TL (in retrospect this was stupid thinking).

So we looked at and drove a Genesis. It drove fine, had nice features, felt upscale, was decently priced, etc. but just didn't really get us excited. We also looked at a Lexus ES and basically the same thing. We were not really considering a TL for the reasons already mentioned but still felt compelled to at least take a look, if nothing more than the fact that Acura deserved some degree of loyalty based on our very satisfying 12 years of ownership.

The thing that almost immediately sold it for us on the TL was the solidness of the car and the tightness of the ride. My wife's all time favorite car was a 3-series BMW we had for a while in the late-1980s and we both felt the 2012 TL drove and handled at least as well as that BMW. Certainly, driving a TL versus the Lexus and Genesis felt like night and day.

We are just coming up on one year of ownership with our new TL and have NO regrets at all. It is a fun car to drive (as far as 4-door sedans go) and has a solid classy feel and great features.

I would like to see Acura come out with bolder models like the ZDX, a 2-door coupe, etc. on a more consistent basis to bolster their position in the marketplace. But the TL seems like the best model they have going and have stuck with it now for about 15 years, which is good.

stars_fan

Hope your not one to complain about rattles and squeaks. I love mine but the quality is not there at all. But it will eat most cars with little effort and is a joy in the twisties if you're a capable driver.

pimpin-tl

Sorry for your car having those issues. Both of ours are solid with no rattles or squeaks. Most on here don't.

jangkai

At almost 4years of ownership, I am very happy with this car. A little trouble here and there but nothing major.
With that being said, hopefully my next car/s will be an American V8 and a cheap commuter.

I think he was referring to the Z06.

Qwikhas

With this being my second TL (99 was my first) I would like to stay with Acura but I really dont feel I'll need the space of a sedan in the next 2 years and Acura doesnt seem to be interested in having a TL level type coupe out there. I'm going to sit tight and wait for the TLX and go from there.

SeismicGuy

From a marketing and demographic view, introducing a quality TL-like coupe would make a lot of sense. You have to figure that the TL demographic is largely middle-aged family types. I know that most members here probably do not fit that group but folks who are active on auto forums are often NOT the typical demographic.

Anyway, if you accept the fact that many/most TL owners are as I suggested, then as those owners age and hit mid-life crisis mode a sporty TL-type coupe would fit the bill perfectly.

Glashub

It would for me.

docboy

Agreed.

I've heard rumors of a "baby NSX" around $50k. Guess we shall see...

gibjer

lol nope, I've owned 7 Subaru's ..

Light track duty and backroads cruiser. Probably toss on an exhaust to open it up a bit more.

Pricet

I had a 2009 Genesis 4.6L that I absolutely loved. Had it not been for a $10K+ bump in the rear-end, with an unresolved creaking noise post repairs (i.e., due to a lot of cutting, welding, frame straightening, etc.), I would still be driving it. On a side note, the Carfax indicated the car was clean months after those repairs - despite 14 hours on frame rack?! Admittedly, I am partial to Acura's but can't throw stones at the Genesis after 3 years and 45K miles based on my experience. The weak link to me was the Hyundai service department (e.g., arbitrarily stopped offering service loaners, etc.) ...imagine that exists for Acura as well but thankfully has not been my experience. In fact, I really enjoyed working with the Hyundai salesman..too bad service was not of same caliber (just about totally opposite story at Acura). I replaced the Genesis with a 2012 SH-AWD 6MT and am thoroughly enjoying it. A different car than the Genesis. The Genesis materials and fit/finish were top notch so no complaints and can even see owning another one sometime but for now enjoying rowing TL!

draph

I'm one of those folks who still needs a sedan and requires an MT. My 1.5 hrs/day commute needs to offer fun driving opportunity, but a nice sound system and sedateness when I'm on the portions of the commute that don't have S-curves and cloverleaf on-ramps.

I'm very concerned any Acura that will use the "Advanced Hybrid-AWD" may not offer an MT; but I'd like to challenge their engineers to find a way to make it a seamless system that still offers the same car-driver interactive relationship a true MT brings. With electric motors on the rear wheels, they could almost keep the car accelerating in between shifts, or at least help smooth out the gear changes for passenger comfort. Unfortunately, with the NSX rumors about sequential paddle shifted gearbox, I'm thinking the true 3 pedal Acura (except for 4-banger fwd architectures shared with Honda) may soon be a thing of the past. At that point, I will no longer look at Acura...and if every other car maker goes the same way, I'll be one of these old farts that will be driving an old car until I die or have too much arthritis in my left leg and right arm to shift for myself.

Six Shifter

Acura was one of the last, if not the last, nameplate that offered the MT as a no-cost option (although some manufactures that offer both offer the MT as standard and the auto as the option). It's the only reason I went fm my CL-S into the TL, but the lack of the 2 door is why I'm leaving the nameplate altogether.

Hapa DC5

Life is too short to be brand loyal.

My mom owned GM products for decades, she has an LX470 and a Jeep Liberty now.

All I have ever owned were Honda/Acura. Until the summer of 2010 my TL was just not putting a smile on my face. I test drove a G37S and never looked back.

Last year my wife wanted a bigger car, we traded our Fit for a Highlander.

If Acura makes a compelling TLX sure I'd be inclined to test drive since I'm still a fan of the brand which means the criticisms will come with it especially if they do not live up to my expectations for them.

Right now, the S4 looks like where I'd be leaning to in a few years to replace my Infiniti, but that could change.

There are just too many choices and great cars for 40-50k to only narrow it down to one make.

draph

I respect your desire for coupe and MT. For me, a larg-ish sedan with MT is a faster dying breed, and that rarity makes it more appealing to me than a coupe (not to mention for practical need reasons). In many cases, coupes actually outweigh their sedan counterparts while having less practical space for the positive trade-off of looking a lot better with their more steeply raked windshields and backlights. It seems only cars designed to be pure sports cars from the beginning are light and nimble to levels significantly more fun than a sporty sedan.

Anyway, had my 2007 335 lease ended in 2009 instead of 2010, I'd be driving a Pontiac G8 GXP 6MT. That car would have cost me about $3K less than the TL; and it offered over 100 more hp, pure rwd, and loads more interior and trunk space. The $3K savings would have provided a nice offset for the extra cost of gas during my term of ownership.

JustinTL

My family has a tradition with Honda and Acura. truly say, they never fail us. if you do your service maintenance on time, you won't never have to step on a side of the road and yell: "what the f... is wrong with this car?" and the service cost for luxury brand, Acura can be considered to provide the most inexpensive service. Easy to fix, and here in Utah we have life time oil change, which I will stay with Acura until I get very old and need a big Lincoln town car so no one can hit me dead. lol

colberto

I have owned two Acuras...a 2006 TL-Tech that I just recently replaced this year with a 2012 TL-Tech. I have to admit that the excitement I felt for the car and brand with my first purchase, just wasn't there this time around. With the 2006...I was excited about the purchase...with the 2012...I feel a sense of "settling" for the TL.

I did an extremely extensive search too...was thinking about a SUV at one point. In fact I waited for the RDX to come out hoping that would hit the sweet spot. I looked at BMW's, had a short crush on the ZDX, drove the A5, went to dozens of car shows, etc.

I definately let my brain and logic make this last 2012 TL purchase. From most criteria...it still stacks up well....but I agree with others that the car and more importantly the brand has lost a bit of it's mojo. It does everything quite well, offers quite a bit for the buck, and remains extremely reliable...all things that my brain loved. But for some reason my heart really isn't satisfied.