DSG vs manual shifting has been a hot topic. Attached is my post from a Porsche site on this topic a few months back. For the drivers that can drive a manual and the joy of heel and toe, its not easily replaceable with a DSG. Yes, DSG is faster than the 6 speed. There is no arguing in that. It shifts quicker and surprisingly very intuitive. I was surprised. I tracked a PDK (DSG) vs. manual back to back. I did have a quicker time on PDK (10 seconds faster at Road America). That being said, I ended up getting a 6 speed manual. Here are my reasons. Its cut and paste from another forum.


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JK335

I purchased a 997.2 CS 6 speed. I have also debated between a PDK and a 6 speed for a long period of time. After much time spent on internet searches and test drives, I have decided to purchase a 6 speed for the following reasons.
1. I enjoy the actual motion of my feet and arms engaged in driving the car. For me, there is nothing that can replace the actual grunt of shifting the gears on your own. Today's drivers demand the best. We want the fastest, most intuitive, most convenient and reliable piece of machinery. but there is nothing like the classic manual. That might be why my favorite watches are manual wound. It is a chore. I have to wind it regularly. I can leave it in the orbital machine or wear an automatic. But I choose to wind my favorite watch every morning by hand.
2. PDK shifts faster than the 6 speed. I would have chosen the PDK car, if I track my car for a living. I don't. Few seconds off the lap means alot to me. However, actual experience of manual shifting and getting it just right means more to me. If I want a dual clutch track monster, i would have gone with the Nissan GTR.
3. Lastly, my wife knows how to drive a manual. There is nothing sexier than seeing her kick off her Louboutins and rev out from the parking lot. She can heel and toe. It will embarrase some of the best of us on track.

JK.. the manual on the 997 will not be smooth as the BMWs, Acuras, etc. That being said, if you feel that it is defective, you should definitely have a local dealer look at it. It is firmer than the other imports but should not feel like it is defective. Are you being hesitant on the shift? If you are tentative and catching the shift at downgoing rev, it may feel jerky and knotchy.

Good luck

 

+1 on the DSG. I was surprised that Honda did not pull the plug on the 6MT when it lost almost $3 billion in the first quarter. It does not seem to be a core requirement in the market segment they are trying to penetrate with the bigger TL.

 

sICK!

 

Out of all of the reasons I've seen for manuals against dual clutch autos, yours are definitely the most honest and genuine. While I feel quite the opposite on most of your points (except the last point, that is just plain sexy) I can appreciate the honesty of just simply liking the feel of a manual. Being quite a tech whore, DSGs have me excited, but so do LED headlights, dual view screens, and performance hybrids. Not necessarily because any of them will turn out to be any good, but simply because they're emerging tech, finally hitting consumer level equipment, and I love new gadgets. ;-)

 

Acura typically does not charge anything extra for an automatic transmission so if they stick to their playbook, the manual will cost the same as the automatic.

Interesting, I am just now noticing on Acura.com that the base model is not offered w/ a manual ... ? I always thought that it did & that it was only the SH-AWD that did not yet have it ...

 

I think you will love DSG cars. I admit that it is a faster track car transmission. No one can shift that quickly. In the automatic DSG mode (both ///M3 and 997.2 Carrera S), shifting is very intuitive on the track. I test drove the ///M first and bought it only to return it (not for me). It is a great transmission and should appeal to most drivers. There will always be a group of manual shifters that will remain a manual shifter. My reasons noted above. That being said, many of the P-car drivers that were die hard manual shifters are now driving the PDK (DSG) cars. Drive it for yourself. I think you won't be disappointed

 

Here is my if anyone cares....
I waited about a month for my 05 TL 6MT to be swapped in and around 3 weeks for my current 08 Type-S 6MT. I definitely consider myself a performance enthusiast and i look at driving more as recreation than as a chore. I dont see myself owning an auto anytime soon. In the carribean and europe manuals rule......americans for some reason dont like them hence why dealers dont really order any.
I work for Honda and when we order cars we want all autos......but for our personal rides, manual is the way to go from the owner of the dealership right down to the prep guys. (excluding the women and non enthusiast few!)
As for DSG/PDK/SMG etc........ some of those definitely shift way quicker than any human can but who cares?? I love the involvement and feel of shifting my own gears without any help!

That being said......our sister store will be getting 6MT TLs and ill be there to "stretch the legs" on it asap!!

 

At the risk of getting flamed to death, for me, the difference is between "driving" a car, and "riding" in a car. 6MT all the way...

I'm looking forward to test driving the new 6MT SH-AWD TL when it's released --- it seems like a great balance of fun and luxury for a daily driver...

 

anybody who drive a manual will agree. I will only buying manual transmission for the rest of my life.

 

^+1 Manual all day everyday! I owned a SMG M3 not too long ago and hated not having a manual.

 

+1

Aside from an absolutely uncomfortable and painful driving position in my 2009 IS 250 AWD, the auto tranny is boring and bland. The paddle shifters are slow to respond to shift changes and cannot hold gears in position. Nothing but a show piece.

I too look forward to test driving the 2010 6MT TL.

 

Just called one of the local Acura dealers. Internet sales manager says there will be a 2010 TL AWD 6spd in their lot in a couple of weeks. Naturally he speaks very highly of the vehicle, saying the manual transmission will "put the SH AWD to full use."

I'll definitely be there to test drive the car when he calls to let me know that the car has arrived at the stealership.

Not to hijack the thread, but I'm very eager to see how the 2010 TL 6spd performs (coming off fresh test drives from an A4 2.0T manual, G37x, WRX, and the 09 TL 5spd auto).

 

I just called my dealer after looking on the Acura site and they are taking orders now

 

Mclaren F1, recognised as the best performing overall road legal car to date. No other car to date has the same speed AND agility at the same time as this car. Transmission of this car: Manual.

 

Manual FTW! Last year, I drove a VW R32 with the DSG, just prior driving a 328xi with a manual. Granted, the 328 is a superior machine in every single way, but the most satisfying aspect of the drive was the clutch and excellent gearbox. The DSG was cool in that it shifted quickly, rev matched, and the shifts were smooth, but the drive felt artificial and not entirely different from a typical torque converter automatic. I was underwhelmed.

Just last month, I was lucky enough to get my hands on a 2008 Cadillac DTS rental for a long road trip. Wow, what a great car! Ergonomics were good, huge glass for all passengers, cooled seats with massage, decent sound system, very quiet. I liked it so much, I stopped checking out new 5 series, G37's, and TL's momentarily to go look at the Caddies, which can be had very cheaply these days. Anyway, a pleasantly surprising part of the DTS drive was the slush box: smooth, imperceptible shifts, smart shift points, etc. It was pretty amazing for a dated 4 speed automatic....not much different from the DSG, just missing the paddles IMHO.

I've always driven manual, so I am very biased --I grew up in 5 speed GTI's during the 80's. Yet, it was not until 10 years ago that I taught myself how to double clutch and heel-toe. I am still honing my skills, but practicing to get that perfect rev matched downshift or to heel toe at the precise time prior to entering a corner makes driving so enjoyable. An automatic, no matter how fast it shifts or how shiny the paddles can never duplicate those experiences for me.

 

double clutch?! What is this, the 1970's?

 

it's not just about shift speed and performance, it's the feeling and personality of the car. Driving a manual is just so much more involved and simply put, more fun.

 

.....not in Chicago traffic!

 

manuals all day everyday..

 

Hey buddy,

Is there a hip/cool/contemporary way to describe double clutch? Please enlighten.

 

Yep, very true if you happen to drive a dump truck.

 

For me, it's DSG all the way......it's the future......Ferrari, Porsche, AMG, Audi, BMW M are all going that way.....it's the best of both worlds.

(Even the fastest and most powerful production car in the world, the Bugatti Veyron 16.4 has a DSG).

 

Ah, actually I was refering to the fact that double clutching is something only needed for manual gearboxes that don't have synchronizers. Those kind of gearboxes can be found on vehicles made in the 1970's...

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-double-clutching.htm

Here's an excerpt:

...Most modern cars, however, are equipped with devices called synchronizers that help to synchronize the speed of the gearbox with that of the engine. This effectively eliminates the need for double clutching. Some large trucks on the other hand have so many gears that synchronizers are inefficient, while race cars can squeeze out more power without them, making double clutching a fact of life...


I just remember that when the movie "The Fast and the Furious" came out, that among everything else that enthusiasts picked apart, was the fact Vin Diesel credited his win and Paul Walker's loss in that famous "race" was that he was "granny shifting" and not "double clutching" which doesn't make sense why you would do that in drag racing?

 

As long as I can I also will be buying only manual transmission vehicles. The 3 vehicles my husband and I own now all have manual.

 

That's more of a function of the car being released back in 1992 than anything else. Have you noticed that the new McLaren supercar, the MP4-12C, has a 7 speed dual-clutch transmission?

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=156926

 

Look, the point of double clutching is to match engine speed with drivetrain speed when downshifting. Yes, of course syncros now protect transmissions, as of 1970, which I did not know --so, thank you for that. Still, when downshifting at speed, there is an abruptness as the gear engages with the spinning drivetrain, unless the driver "rev matches," which is possible while double clutching. Rev matching downshifts are now all the rage in the newest automatic transmissions. And now, Nissan is offering computer controlled rev matching capability with their new manual tranny.

 

Syncro boxes were common in the 1950's, I learned how to drive on one.

BTW The T-10 4 speed was introduced on the 1957 Corvette which had about the same performance envelope as the 3g 6MT.

 

Since you're 67 years old, do you double clutch or when was the last time you have?

 

only people who complain about driving a manual in traffic are people who dont have a manual

 

I repsect the desire for a 6 speed manual, but with the lower sales I feel Acura did themselves a dis-service by not having a 6 speed auto as well! The AWD really needs a 6 speed auto! It could use a lower first gear and then a 6th gear taller than the current 5th. Would make for some nice acceleration and maybe a tad quieter smooth higher MPG highway ride. Maybe that is what will be in the 2012 Type-S?

 

No, never double clutched in a car going back to a '57 Ford Convertible, only in Army trucks which did not have syncros. There is no point in double clutching a constant mesh gearbox with synchronizers.

Expect it does nothing but wear out the clutch friction material faster.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN6S2UIrp6o
found this on youtube.Is this anyone on here?

 

...thats a weird vid.

 

sorry, but that guy's shifting is a little limp, nothing wrong with that, but butch it up a little!! this is the first manual 300hp+ AWD Acura!

I called my friendly local dealer Sat and asked if the new 6speed TLs were in to view. after a long delay and 1 or 2 confused people and shuffling around someone came on the phone and said, in a couple a weeks.

I was in the area on Sunday and snooped the lot, and what did I see, a black HPT? 6speed sitting right outside the showroom door.
so much for needing to make sales in a downturn. jeez.

 

and at $45k I guess all the yellers for flagships, and V8s, and German fighters, got it now, just in higher prices, the 'Tier 1'. and the V6TSX was like $38k+. ugh

also the shift knob looks like the same old one on the 05-06 TL, the pics at TOV showed a newer one.

 

that video appears entirely pointless. you can't see the speedo, tach, or road..... or am I missing something? the guy's hand on the shifter and another guy's knee? wtf would you want to see that for?

 

mother f'n

cant wait to get my hands on the new 6 speed TL and take one for a spin..

 

Yeah, that video was absolutely terrible but the only thing I honed in on is the shifter and its precise movements. It looked very solid and the throws were the stuff dreams were made of. More videos of people driving this beast!

 

engine sounded sweet tho.

 

That J37 sounds BUTCH. Love it love it love it!

I plan to test drive this. I'm waiting for this at my dealer. I still don't like the exterior styling but that doesn't detract from the fact that this will be an excellent drive and is an otherwise excellent car.