docboy

I'm hoping that we'll be able to have a USEFUL thread on the A4 versus the TL. I did a search, and some of the prior threads were out of line and out of topic, and thoroughly hijacked.

Anways, I found this link online over the weekend, not sure if anyone or any moderators have seen it:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...son/index.html

What do you guys/gals think of 09 Audi A4 2.0T/3.2? Granted the 2010 TL 6sp has not come out yet.

My 09 IS250AWD is absolutely KILLING me, and so fricking uncomfortable, I find myself now narrowing down my potential replacement of the IS with either the TL auto or 2010 TL 6spd or the A4 6sp.

Recent reports on CR and Truedelta have actually suggested 06-08 A4s to be very reliable, on par/exceed that of Infiniti and Acura.

Opinions and thought? Does anyone here have both a 09 TL AWD and a 09/10 A4? I'm trying to gauge long term comfort for the driver/passenger/family, performance, practicality, and reliability.

PetesTL

Oh geez, not this again!

Anyways, being that pretty much all of us here are TL owners, you're going to find we're pretty biased when it comes to that debate. (and likewise when you question the A4 owners about it).

That being said, here are the facts:

1. The 4G is a bigger and heavier car than the A4 (you could almost say the 4G is a borderline full-size sedan and the A4 a compact/mid-size).

2. The performance of both cars are going to be roughly similar. The A4 2.0 is going to be a little more "nimble" due to the much lighter weight. The TL SH-AWD is going to have slightly more grip due to the stiffer/sportier suspension and bigger wheels/tires.

3. The TL is a better overall value simply due to the fact that it comes with more standard features than the A4. To get the same amount of equipment as the TL SH-AWD Tech, you need to get the A4 3.2 w/Prestige package and Navigation, and the Sports Package.....totalling close to $50K! Add to the fact that TL's are being aggressively discounted now (and Audi's typically are not) and that price advantage of the Acura looks even bigger.


However, will all this being said, the most important thing is what YOU want, and what's most comfortable and appealing to YOU. Go out there and test-drive these cars extensively. No amout of rant and raves will matter if the car doesn't meet your needs and lifestyle.

docboy

As I'm finding out with my recent purchase of my IS, comfort is one thing that cannot be judged/evaluated properly unless you have the vehicle for a sustained period of time. IMHO.

How is the TL/AWD comfort? How are your work commutes? Family trips/outings front and rear seats?

danimal1968

I have 5,000 miles on my TL/AWD. I have about a 20 mile commute and the car is great. Comfort seems to be fine for the passengers unless you have someone taller than 6 6". I've driven it 3 times from Columbus to Cincinnati (110 miles or so) and it has been great.

FWD has a softer suspension than the AWD. Some find the AWD harsh; others find the FWD mushy.

I live by myself so I can't comment on family trips. Seating more than 4 adults would be a problem for anything other than short trips.

cornelius

Ive driven my friend's IS250 a couple of times and I found it to be much more
comfortable than my TL. The seats felt a lot cushier and comfortable.
The TL is much larger and has more leg space, but the IS seats are more
comfortable. I would say the A4 is kind of like the IS in that the seats are
comfortable but there is not much leg space in the back.

PsychDoc

I could have been very happy with either of them. The A4 was unequivocally my second choice had I not bought the TL. It's a wonderful car. It really came down to value per dollar. The TL was the clear winner here. But believe me, you can't go wrong with the A4. I would not have considered the previous generation A4 as it was simply too small. This new one is almost in the same league as the TL. The TL just offers so much more for thousands less.

docboy

I agree that IS seats per se are comfy and cushy. That's what initially sold me on the car in the first, as I thought highly of the seats. Plus both the driver's and passenger's side seats have lumbar support. But over time, the overall driving position is poor and cramped, esp due to the AWD casing which I did not think of too much at the time of the test drive.

I honestly can't decide which car is more comfortable, the TL or new A4. These 2 cars are so similar IMHO, each with its own pluses/negatives.

winstrolvtec

Since comfort seems to be the real issue here, go with the TL. Ride quality is a subjective measure and if you are anything like myself no matter how well either rides if it's too small or cramped inside it's just not comfortable. It already offers the total package over the A4 and if you go with the 6MT then it's clearly a no brainer and the AT is already more than enough for what you are looking for. For the money the A4 is too small and underpowered even when compared to the TSX and they are dropping the 3.2 for 10'. You will need to go premium mid sized to match the size and space of the TL and that will run you around $60k similarly equipped no matter what brand you choose. The TL is one of a kind in offering mid sized level of size, space, comfort, and performance at a reasonable price point.

PsychDoc

To be fair, let's compare apples to apples. Here's a cut and paste of the A4 quatro with automatic and 2.0T engine.
Audi A4

Total price:$ 40,025.00

Product no.Description Price in $ 8K256L\4 \GWPSWPSEngine
2.0 TFSI Premium Plus 211 HP
Acceleration:
Top speed:
$ 37,050.00Q4Q4Exterior
Quartz Gray, metallic
$ 475.00 GQInterior
Material: Leather seating surfaces
Upholstery: Light Gray
Dashboard: Graphite-Graphite
Carpet: Quartz Gray
Headliner: Star Silver
$ 0.00 Options

PNKAudi navigation system with DVD An in-car computer processes GPS signals and determines the vehicle position, providing you with suggested routes in getting to your destination. The in-depth functionality includes radio and hands-free car phone functions by speaking the necessary commands through voice control, and a large color information display screen.

$ 2,500.00 Note: The price may be reduced depending on which engine is selected or if different options are chosen. Standard equipment

PackagesWPSPremium package
ExteriorCL917" alloy wheels
H7E17" wheels with all-season tires
8Q3Automatic, dynamic headlight-range adjustment (self-adjusting while driving)
8EHBI-XENON™ headlights with automatic self leveling
5RWConvex outer right rearview mirror
8K4Daytime running lights
5SGDriver's side exterior rearview mirror
4ZBExterior chrome window trim
6FAExterior mirror housing painted in body color
8WBFront fog lights
3FEPower glass sunroof with slide-and-tilt functions and pinch protection
2K2Reinforced bumpers
1G5Space-saver spare wheel and tire
4GQTinted glass windshield
Interior5TEAluminum decorative inlays
GS4Applications
4L7Autodimming interior mirror with compass
3L4Electrically adjustable front seats with driver memory system
6E3Folding driver and front passenger front center armrest with adjustable height
6M1Four tie-down eyelets
2ZQFour-spoke, leather-covered multi-function steering wheel
0TDFront and rear floor mats
4A3Heated front seats
VC1HomeLink® universal garage door opener
N1FLeather seating surfaces
8N6Light and rain sensors
QQ1Lighting package
3B7Lower Anchorage and Tethers for Children (LATCH) in rear seats
6SSLuggage compartment floor covering
Q1ALuxury front seats
7P7Power driver seat with four-way lumbar adjustment
3NZSplit folding rear seat back
QE1Storage package
9AQThree-zone automatic air conditioning
Safety & technology7AJAdvanced anti-theft vehicle alarm system
9Q2Driver Information System
8T1Electronic cruise control with coast, resume and acceleration features
4K2Radio frequency remote locking system
1N3Servotronic®, speed-sensitive power steering for sporty handling
Infotainment7D3Audi music interface (iPod integration)
9VDAudi sound system
9ZGBluetooth®
QV8SIRIUS® Satellite Radio*
Technical data

Engine
Engine typeInline four-cylinder spark-ignition engine with gasoline direct injection, exhaust turbo-charger with intercooler, four valves/cylinder, DOHC Arrangement: Front mounted, longitudinal

• Bore: 3.25 in; 82.5 mm
• Stroke: 3.65 in; 92.8 mm
• Compression ratio: 10.5 : 1

Performance data
Displacement1.984 L Max. output211 hp @ 4,300-6,000 rpm Max. torque258 lb-ft @ 1,500-4,200 rpm Engine managementFSI Direct Injection; fuel-air mixture distributed homogeneously within combustion chamber; four-valve cylinder head with low-friction roller cam follower drive - resulting in superior knock resistance and efficiency Exhaust emission controlDual three-way catalytic converters with individual oxygen sensors Driveline
TransmissionAutomatic six-speed with Tiptronic. Tiptronic® allows all gear changes to take place without any interruption in engine power. It also allows the driver to override automatic mode by moving the lever into a second shift gate. Suspension
FrontFive-link front suspension, upper and lower wishbones, tubular anti-roll bar, light weight aluminum components. RearIndependent wheel, trapezoidal-link rear suspension with resiliently mounted subframe, anti-roll bar. Trapezoidal-link rear suspension permits excellent performance, handling, and comfort. Brake system
Brake systemDual circuit brake system with diagonal split, Anti-lock Brake System (ABS), Electronic Brake pressure Distribution (EBD) and Electronic Stabilization Program, upgraded version 8.0 (ESP) with brake disc wiping feature; tandem brake booster Steering
SteeringMaintenance-free rack-and-pinion steering with Servotronic® electronic power assist. Servotronic is speed-dependent power steering in which the amount of servo assist provided is dictated by road speed, providing more comfort and convenience for the driver. Weights
Unladen weight3715 lbs Roof load limit/nose weight limit90/80 lbs Volumes
Luggage compartment17.3 cu ft Fuel tank (approx.)16.9 Gallons Performance data
Top speedTop speed is electronically limited at 130 mph Acceleration 0-60 mph6.7 seconds

Total price:$ 40,025.00

Assuming a small discount (Audi's are not heavily discounted) of about $1000 and you're paying ~$39k for a car that is still a bit smaller than the TL and not quite as well equipped. Still, not too bad. Probably within ~$1k of a SH-AWD/Tech TL. Like I said, you can't go wrong with either one. Had the TL not been available when I bought it, I would have been driving an A4 right now.

Heck, it has thos super sexy LED DRL's. That alone is almost worth the price of the car! ;-)

cornelius

The A4 has a much better looking exterior than the TL and I would have to say the A4 interior wins buy a little. The A4 is much more comfy, but the rear seats can sometimes get cramped. The A4 has nice fitting wheels and the TL has mini donuts. The A4 is about the same weight as the TL and the TL has 70-90 more HP.
The A4 and TL are both overpriced but Acura gives extremely reasonable deals and the
A4 resale value is total crap.

KeithL

I find the seats very comfortable and have been on 2-3 hours drive in my AWD. I love the suspension and am one of those that find the FWD to soft. That being said I have excellent roads I drive on all the tme so on mixed surfaces I might be more concerned.

JD23

The one thing to remember with the 2010 A4 is that you need the Prestige Package to get memory seats/mirrors and push button start, if either of these options matters for you. The Prestige Package and Sport Package is going to run you around $45k.

SSFTSX

Person have put comfort at the top of criteria. so no sport package/drive select etc. and he means comfort also interms of noise levels than A4 is quieter than TL-SHAWD at freeway speeds.
So maximum he is doing Prestige/Navigation at around $43K. it will still give him AWD/18inch/3G MMI Plus 3D navigation/tri zone climate/17cubic foot of space with folding rear seats upto 50cubic foot. with 21/27 fuel economy.


I havent seen Acura 2010 prices and discount in begnning will be not that much. Even Premium Plus+Navigation package for around $38k will be fine. It will still give new LED lights in the back but on 17inch rims. which is good for comfort.

bw5556

A4 was on my short list too, but after driving the TL SH-AWD I didn't even make it to the Audi dealer. I'm 6'5" and am surprisingly comfortable in the TL. The seats are a bit soft and a little more thigh support could would help out but I'm quite tall and this would likely turn some buyers off. I can't compare ride quality, but the TL is very compliant. I went with the 19" wheels and the ride does get choppy on these "great" SoCal roads but I'd imagine an A4 with the sport package would be pure hell based on edmunds comments about their SoCal long termer. Good luck!

docboy

It's good to have a civil and polite discussion thus far

My preliminary impressions suggest that in the comparison TL vs A4....

Esthetics: A4 (highly subjective, yes?)
Fuel economy: A4
Cargo space: A4
Drivers/passenger comfort: Equal, poss slight nod to A4?
Rear seat space/comfort: TL
Overall comfort: The big ????
Price: TL
Visibility: A4?
Residual resale value: TL
Acceleration: Equal? With 6sp TL vs 6sp A2.0T w/chip and intake, A4 maybe?
Reliability: TL (though according to CR, 06-08 A4 4-cylinders have above average reliability, which is on par with that of Honda)

venom550pm

i've been on 8 hour jaunts with my Sh-AWD and have loved every minute of it. i think the seats are very comfortable.

PetesTL

Just curious, docboy, why haven't you included the Infiniti G37 and BMW 3 series into the comparison?


Also, have you test-driven both cars yet? Like I mentioned before, you need to go out and test-drive these cars extensively in the real world and see how they drive and feel. Also get some quotes from dealers to see what the actual prices are right now in the market.

docboy

Ahh, now you're thinking like me. Actually I have test driven the G37x and 328/335xi, as well as the WRX. See my prior thread: https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-2009-2014-123/possible-trade-09-is250-awd-due-serious-pain-discomfort-my-right-leg-734379/

I ruled out the 3 series b/c they were just too cramped in the rear for the family, and just too unreliable for me, especially the xi versions. The G37x was actually the front runner to replace the IS, but I'm going to ruled that out (at least for now) b/c the overall cabin seem slightly too snug/cramped. I have a wife, small child, and perhaps another one in the future. I loved the power and driving dynamics on the 335 and G37 though...

IMHO it's just TOO hard to sufficiently LONG TERM drive one of these cars to adequately gauge its level of comfort, presence of any annoyances, and unexpected surprises.... In an ideal world, I would be able to test drive a car for a week. Then I would know.

BleuM&M

The TL has more room to move around in and therefore more comfort positions you can find. On long trips, what matters is that you can make little adjustments to your great seating to remain comfortable. I've done 8-10 hour stints in the TL and an A6. I prefer the TL. I assume an A4 has less room than an A6.

If you chip a 2.0T, you're asking for trouble, especially on longer drives. Been there, melted, bent or snapped that. You mod it, reliability becomes questionable, but it's always fun to run away from another 2.0T when you come across one.

I've always had respect for German engineering and have owned more than a few from the VW-Audi group. They simply don't have the staying power I've found with Acura.

IMHO.

ll_22

I don't find the TL that noisy at high speeds at all, and I've never heard of Audi's considered a quiet luxury brand (unlike Lexus and MB). That said I have not driven the 09 A4 so I am curious if people have compared them back-to-back. I think the 09TL is slightly quieter than the 09 Infiniti G.

PetesTL

It seems comfort and space are a big priority to you over anything else. Then why don't you just get a SUV like the MDX? Once you start having kids, you run out of space in a hurry, and you'll also need adequate utility space to carry all that kids stuff. The trunk space in the TL (esp. in the SH-AWD) is kinda tight.

guytdt

A4 is too noisy at 65-70 mph or above and this is my biggest complaint.

PetesTL

...esp. the 2.0T......when I test-drove it last fall, the 4-banger's noise was really annoying after a few minutes. It's a good engine but Audi should've never gotten rid of the (much smoother) 3.2 V6 for 2010.

JD23

From what I've read, less than 10% of the 09 A4s sold with the V6. I think the V6 A4 was way too expensive given its level of performance; it was not hard to push the price close to between $45k and $50k with a reasonable number of options.

PetesTL

The 2.0T is no bargain either. Once you add Prestige package, Navigation, Drive Select, and Sports packages, you're pushing $47K+! Audi makes ones of the best 4-bangers on the market, but considering how rough and noisy they usually are, they don't belong in a luxury car.....esp. not one that's this expensive. To me, the only A4 worth having is the S4, whose performance actually matches its looks.

venom550pm

the s4 is nice but not cheap.

SSFTSX

MDX is not comfortable either. better go with Q5.same refinement/performance of A4 with LED/more space and better fuel economy.

docboy

We already have a RX330, so as of now, we don't really need 2 SUVs. Although I have seriously considered the MDX, which I really like; I consider the X to be one of the best family SUVs out there. Good suggestion though. Only negative is relatively poor mpg.

Still trying to see if I can get the best of both worlds in a sports sedan.

docboy

Did you feel cramped in the A6? The 2009 A4 and A6 seem very similar in interior size; I sat in both last week, and the A6's interior seem only marginally more spacious than the A4.

How did you find the reliability of the A6?

I'm trying to keep an open mind. I'm admittedly biased towards the Japanese makes b/c of their historical good reliability. Times a changing though, and the only reason I'm considering the A4 is b/c CR has given 06, 08 models above average reliability; plus data on TrueDelta.com is showing 09 A4s to have good reliability data comparable to that of Honda.

PetesTL

Well if price isn't too big of an issue, I'd suggest looking into the BMW 5 series, the new Mercedes E-Class, Lexus GS350, and Caddy CTS, to go along with the new A6. Crossovers like the BMW X6 might also be good if you're looking for space and performance. The upcoming Acura ZDX might be interesting also if you can wait a little.

cp3117

Both are great cars but i think this late in the year it maybe hard to find a A4 3.2.

When you do some research you'll see that a comparable equipped 2.0T is equal to an SH-AWD in performance and sometimes even better in acceleration numbers than the TL.
Interior wise both have trade offs as the A4 has more headroom but less rear legroom. It appears Audi sacrificed rear leg room for much more cargo space and Acura vise versa. When you go to their websites and compare apples to apples they are aprox $1K difference so their isnt much difference in price but IMHO there is in quality and I think the $1K is very well spent.

Looking at your criteria the vehicle I think that would fit nice is the new Buick Lacrosse. It has more rear leg room than both (equal to a 7 series) and has available options that Acura doesnt even offer, but offers much what the tier 1 brands do like Lexus, Audi, etc. Its offers a good V6, AWD and im sure its materials will equal what Acura offers. Buick has been getting great reviews from CR. GM has specifically targeted this model at the ES350 and the TL so i think it would be worth looking at.

Being Audi's 3.2L is gone the 2.0T wont be a good match for the 2010 SHAWD 6sp. If you are looking at that price range though I would consider a base S4 as they will probably be starting at $46-47K. Fully loaded with 7sp DSG etc they will probably run $10K more but they will also be much more car. I just saw its first comparo against a BMW 335 and lets just say Audi has a winner and BMW is going to be scrambling to upgrade the 335i. The Audi S4 beat it in almost every category including handling.

PsychDoc

The new M-B E class just got blasted in a C & D comparo with the 535, A6, M45 and XF. Finished dead last by a pretty good margin IIRC. The A6 with the new supercharged 3.0 engine was the clear winner in this comparo.

cornelius

I dont understand how the performance of A4 and TL are comparable when the TL has almost 100 more HP and they both weigh in close to 4000 lbs.

Also, isnt the S4 supposed to be compared to the M3. I dont think the S4 comes close
to M3 in any category.

PetesTL

If you price out an Audi A4 2.0T to have a similar amount of equipment as the TL SH-AWD w/ Tech package, you're looking at close to $45K (Prestige Package, Navigation, Sports Package). Considering that you can easily get a TL SH-AWD nowdays for $37K-38K, that's a lot more than a $1K difference.

winstrolvtec

It's a classic misconception. Gearing and brake torque manipulation are in great favor of the A4 and are the TL's weak points. Aside from what's on paper, the TL is clearly the stronger candidate, with greater passing power and top end even if some numbers seem close. You need the 2.0 in 6MT to even be compared to the 5AT TL. The new S4 is Audi's answer to the 335 and the RS4 will be left to compete with the M3. It has been moved down, made more affordable and also part of why the 3.2 is gone. Cost saving measure, they don't need 4 models to compete with three, and an upgraded V6 that many were waiting for would only take away from the S.

SSFTSX

If this correct. Navigation is part of prestige package for 2010.

danimal1968

It's been reported that the $2,000 incentive money has been discontinued, and a lot of dealers have little or no inventory of the SH-AWD models. My guess is that, for the next couple of months at least, it's not going to be easy to get the SH-AWD for $37.5. At least one recent purchaser reported a pretty good struggle to get to $40k.

Legend2TL

I was a front passenger in a neighbor's MDX last year on a 3+ hour trip 150 mile drive, very comfortable to ride in. I was surprised how little NVH there was, also the front seat was very plush but also supportive.

docboy

Probably a sign that the 2010s will be coming in soon. I'm quite eager to try out the 6spd, and am curious to see if there any unknown cosmetic refreshes.

docboy

+1

Lots of leg room in the front and back, quiet a comfortable and plush environment.