'09 gets brakes!
#1
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'09 gets brakes!
I just couldn't help myself.
For all of those who mocked me for pointing out the mediocre brakes of the 3rd gen TL:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=130526
"Never known for great brakes, this Acura TL has been upgraded to a far more competitive level. The front calipers are now dual-piston units that grab 12.6-inch rotors, which is one more piston and 21 percent more swept area than before. Strangely enough, the rear rotors are even bigger at 13.1 inches, although they stick with single-piston calipers. Pedal feel is quite good and fade proved minimal during our aggressive canyon runs."
A couple of panic stops on cold-to-warm brakes from modest speeds (e.g. 70 MPH) in a magazine (e.g. ROAD AND TRACK) say little about brakes, since virtually any modern car can lock its brakes under those conditions. Such stops say much more about tire grip and ABS algorithms.
Anyway,
to Acura for addressing this issue.
I'm going to miss my TL-S in some ways. Dynamically it was disappointing in many ways, but it's still a nice car overall.
My new Corvette won't be as comfortable or as reliable.
For all of those who mocked me for pointing out the mediocre brakes of the 3rd gen TL:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=130526
"Never known for great brakes, this Acura TL has been upgraded to a far more competitive level. The front calipers are now dual-piston units that grab 12.6-inch rotors, which is one more piston and 21 percent more swept area than before. Strangely enough, the rear rotors are even bigger at 13.1 inches, although they stick with single-piston calipers. Pedal feel is quite good and fade proved minimal during our aggressive canyon runs."
A couple of panic stops on cold-to-warm brakes from modest speeds (e.g. 70 MPH) in a magazine (e.g. ROAD AND TRACK) say little about brakes, since virtually any modern car can lock its brakes under those conditions. Such stops say much more about tire grip and ABS algorithms.
Anyway,
![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
I'm going to miss my TL-S in some ways. Dynamically it was disappointing in many ways, but it's still a nice car overall.
My new Corvette won't be as comfortable or as reliable.
![what](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/what.gif)
#2
I installed dual piston calipers from the old Legend cars on my Gen2 along with good rotors pads and tires. Its a stopping machine- on a dime and gives 8 cents change
Gen3 weigh more, and everyone knows they needed better brakes- hopefully the pads will last more than 20 k miles! and the rotors dont warp~
Gen3 weigh more, and everyone knows they needed better brakes- hopefully the pads will last more than 20 k miles! and the rotors dont warp~
#3
I wonder if the larger rear has to do with the stabilty control computer, and its desire to apply a brake to straighten the car out- or tighten its turning abilty
#4
Senior Moderator
I think they took after the RL. Have you seen the huge brakes on an RL? Necessary to stop nearly 2 tons of bulk. And believe me, they work with no muss, no fuss on the RL. I expect the same on the new TL.
Agree, props to Acura for addressing the TL brake deficit.
Agree, props to Acura for addressing the TL brake deficit.
![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
#5
6G TLX-S
It's a good thing that the rear brake rotors are no longer tiny.
#6
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Originally Posted by neuronbob
I think they took after the RL. Have you seen the huge brakes on an RL? Necessary to stop nearly 2 tons of bulk. And believe me, they work with no muss, no fuss on the RL. I expect the same on the new TL.
Agree, props to Acura for addressing the TL brake deficit.![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Agree, props to Acura for addressing the TL brake deficit.
![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
So the new TL has larger rear rotors than the RL and the same front rotors!
The TL's new rotors simply make the car "competitive" in the segment.
Check out the rotors on this 528 Xi. (The more powerful models use even larger rotors.)
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx
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Originally Posted by neuronbob
I think they took after the RL. Have you seen the huge brakes on an RL? Necessary to stop nearly 2 tons of bulk. And believe me, they work with no muss, no fuss on the RL. I expect the same on the new TL.
Agree, props to Acura for addressing the TL brake deficit.![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Agree, props to Acura for addressing the TL brake deficit.
![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
So the new TL has larger rear rotors than the RL and the same front rotors!
The TL's new rotors simply make the car "competitive" in the segment.
Check out the rotors on this 528 Xi. (The more powerful models use even larger rotors.)
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx
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#8
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Originally Posted by neuronbob
I think they took after the RL. Have you seen the huge brakes on an RL? Necessary to stop nearly 2 tons of bulk. And believe me, they work with no muss, no fuss on the RL. I expect the same on the new TL.
Agree, props to Acura for addressing the TL brake deficit.![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Agree, props to Acura for addressing the TL brake deficit.
![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
So the new TL has larger rear rotors than the RL and the same front rotors!
The TL's new rotors simply make the car "competitive" in the segment.
Check out the rotors on this 528 Xi. (The more powerful models use even larger rotors.)
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx
#9
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Originally Posted by neuronbob
I think they took after the RL. Have you seen the huge brakes on an RL? Necessary to stop nearly 2 tons of bulk. And believe me, they work with no muss, no fuss on the RL. I expect the same on the new TL.
Agree, props to Acura for addressing the TL brake deficit.![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Agree, props to Acura for addressing the TL brake deficit.
![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
So the new TL has larger rear rotors than the RL and the same front rotors!
The TL's new rotors simply make the car "competitive" in the segment.
Check out the rotors on this 528 Xi. (The more powerful models use even larger rotors.)
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx
#10
Originally Posted by harddrivin1le
The RL's fronts are 12.6" (likely the very same rotor as the new TL's), but the RL's rears are only 12.2".
So the new TL has larger rear rotors than the RL and the same front rotors!
The TL's new rotors simply make the car "competitive" in the segment.
Check out the rotors on this 528 Xi. (The more powerful models use even larger rotors.)
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx
So the new TL has larger rear rotors than the RL and the same front rotors!
The TL's new rotors simply make the car "competitive" in the segment.
Check out the rotors on this 528 Xi. (The more powerful models use even larger rotors.)
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx
It is nice to see the new impressive rear brakes and rotors, though. I guess that's a lot of ass to stop, huh?
#11
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Originally Posted by BHump
Holy Posts, Batman!
It is nice to see the new impressive rear brakes and rotors, though. I guess that's a lot of ass to stop, huh?
It is nice to see the new impressive rear brakes and rotors, though. I guess that's a lot of ass to stop, huh?
Anyway you look at it, the new TL has the most powerful brakes of any Acura sedan ever built.
![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Now they need a 6 or 7 speed DSG transmission....
![Wish](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/wish.gif)
I consider the brakes in my '07 TL-S automatic to be the single weakest part of the car.
#13
Originally Posted by 08TYPE_S
It is odd that the rear brakes are larger than the front. It should be the other way around. After all, most vehicles are heavier upfront.
Either way, why does the 4G need better brakes when it's got a brick wall for a front end?
![Wink](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
#14
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Yea, that’s my concern too, why are the rear brakes bigger than the front? Is it because the front is dual-piston, which provides better stopping power than the single-piston setup? Or is It possible that the car has a rear bias weight distribution? Even so, when you slow down, weight transfers to the front…so..I don’t know…can anyone explain?
#15
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Originally Posted by iforyou
Yea, that’s my concern too, why are the rear brakes bigger than the front? Is it because the front is dual-piston, which provides better stopping power than the single-piston setup? Or is It possible that the car has a rear bias weight distribution? Even so, when you slow down, weight transfers to the front…so..I don’t know…can anyone explain?
#16
AZ Community Team
Wonder if Acura did this to get harddrivin1le to stop introducing brake size threads into Acurazine every two week so the moderators can have a break (pun intended)?
#17
Drifting
Originally Posted by Legend2TL
Wonder if Acura did this to get harddrivin1le to stop introducing brake size threads into Acurazine every two week so the moderators can have a break (pun intended)?
#19
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Originally Posted by erick3
dude..i hate that ass...
![Tomato](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/tomato.gif)
#20
Those are actually very small front brakes, especially considering how the TL has grown in size and weight, to RL size proportions. They are much smaller G37 sedan and IS 350 have much larger brakes, G37 has optional 14.2 inch brakes, the IS 350 has 13.5 inch brakes.
The Tl is larger than a BMW 550 which has 13.7 up front and 13.6 in the rear.
I can't help but think Acura put more thought into the Navigation system and not the real important items, engine/brakes/transmission.
12.6 inch brakes behind those thin spoke 19" wheels screams I need bigger brakes
The Tl is larger than a BMW 550 which has 13.7 up front and 13.6 in the rear.
I can't help but think Acura put more thought into the Navigation system and not the real important items, engine/brakes/transmission.
12.6 inch brakes behind those thin spoke 19" wheels screams I need bigger brakes
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#21
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the regular tl brakes were crappy, which is what the article is comparing to, but the brembos were very good.
it will be interesting to see what the numbers are stopping the boat they call the 4th gen.
it will be interesting to see what the numbers are stopping the boat they call the 4th gen.
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Originally Posted by Flavour
...but the brembos were very good.
![Roll Eyes](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
Anyone who would make that statement doesn't know what "very good" brakes are.
I have an '07 TL Type S in my garage. It's got the Brembo brakes and they're no stronger than the brakes in the '08 V6 Accord sedan I drove two weeks ago or the two, base model TLs I got as warranty repair loaners.
The whole "BREMBO" thing was almost solely a marketing tool.
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Originally Posted by LessisBestmakingendsmeet
Those are actually very small front brakes, especially considering how the TL has grown in size and weight, to RL size proportions. They are much smaller G37 sedan and IS 350 have much larger brakes, G37 has optional 14.2 inch brakes, the IS 350 has 13.5 inch brakes.
The Tl is larger than a BMW 550 which has 13.7 up front and 13.6 in the rear.
I can't help but think Acura put more thought into the Navigation system and not the real important items, engine/brakes/transmission.
12.6 inch brakes behind those thin spoke 19" wheels screams I need bigger brakes![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
The Tl is larger than a BMW 550 which has 13.7 up front and 13.6 in the rear.
I can't help but think Acura put more thought into the Navigation system and not the real important items, engine/brakes/transmission.
12.6 inch brakes behind those thin spoke 19" wheels screams I need bigger brakes
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
You're right.
A 550 is a much faster car than the new TL, though, so it needs larger rotors. Both cars ('09 TL SH AWD and 550i) are virtually identical in weight (~ 2 tons).
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx
I would call the '09 TL's brakes "sufficient."
I would call the brakes on my 2007 TL Type S "ridiculous marketing hype."
#24
Team Owner
Who cares. It's not a performance car in any way. The TL will stop with the best of them for a few hard stops. That is all you will ever need on the street. Sure, they might fade on the roadcourse but if that's the case, you bought the wrong car. It's a freaking family sedan.
Hell, my other car has 10.5" rotors, drums on the rear, 3X the hp and I've never had a problem with fade. Drive the car as intended and you will have no problems with the brakes.
The TL is a great low speed handling and stopping car. Below 100mph it's great. As speeds go up, it loses it's composure quickly. It's not a Ferrari, it's a luxury sedan. The brakes are all 99.99% of drivers could ever want. Bigger brakes won't reduce stopping distances in 99% of driving situations. It's a matter of traction until the brakes start to fade and I would guess most people on this forum have never had their brakes fade.
Hell, my other car has 10.5" rotors, drums on the rear, 3X the hp and I've never had a problem with fade. Drive the car as intended and you will have no problems with the brakes.
The TL is a great low speed handling and stopping car. Below 100mph it's great. As speeds go up, it loses it's composure quickly. It's not a Ferrari, it's a luxury sedan. The brakes are all 99.99% of drivers could ever want. Bigger brakes won't reduce stopping distances in 99% of driving situations. It's a matter of traction until the brakes start to fade and I would guess most people on this forum have never had their brakes fade.
#25
Team Owner
Originally Posted by LessisBestmakingendsmeet
Those are actually very small front brakes, especially considering how the TL has grown in size and weight, to RL size proportions. They are much smaller G37 sedan and IS 350 have much larger brakes, G37 has optional 14.2 inch brakes, the IS 350 has 13.5 inch brakes.
The Tl is larger than a BMW 550 which has 13.7 up front and 13.6 in the rear.
I can't help but think Acura put more thought into the Navigation system and not the real important items, engine/brakes/transmission.
12.6 inch brakes behind those thin spoke 19" wheels screams I need bigger brakes![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
The Tl is larger than a BMW 550 which has 13.7 up front and 13.6 in the rear.
I can't help but think Acura put more thought into the Navigation system and not the real important items, engine/brakes/transmission.
12.6 inch brakes behind those thin spoke 19" wheels screams I need bigger brakes
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
To me, 19" rims mean you're more into looks than performance.
Navigation is more important to me than upgrading my brakes since my TL has demostrated in real life on a course it outstops the IS350 with bigger brakes easily.
Quit comparing your mag specs. It's like saying one car sucks because it only has 900hp when the other has 1,000. Neither one is going to hook on the street so what's the point? Most will never get into brake fade so why have bigger brakes?
Feel free to start a poll as to how many on here have ever had the brakes fade.
It's like you guys are in a magazine specs pissing contest just for the bragging rights of who has bigger brakes when in reality you will never use them to their potential.
#26
Team Owner
Originally Posted by harddrivin1le
![Roll Eyes](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
The whole "BREMBO" thing was almost solely a marketing tool.
#28
Originally Posted by I hate cars
And the 550 has 400+lbs on the TL.
To me, 19" rims mean you're more into looks than performance.
Navigation is more important to me than upgrading my brakes since my TL has demostrated in real life on a course it outstops the IS350 with bigger brakes easily.
Quit comparing your mag specs. It's like saying one car sucks because it only has 900hp when the other has 1,000. Neither one is going to hook on the street so what's the point? Most will never get into brake fade so why have bigger brakes?
Feel free to start a poll as to how many on here have ever had the brakes fade.
It's like you guys are in a magazine specs pissing contest just for the bragging rights of who has bigger brakes when in reality you will never use them to their potential.
To me, 19" rims mean you're more into looks than performance.
Navigation is more important to me than upgrading my brakes since my TL has demostrated in real life on a course it outstops the IS350 with bigger brakes easily.
Quit comparing your mag specs. It's like saying one car sucks because it only has 900hp when the other has 1,000. Neither one is going to hook on the street so what's the point? Most will never get into brake fade so why have bigger brakes?
Feel free to start a poll as to how many on here have ever had the brakes fade.
It's like you guys are in a magazine specs pissing contest just for the bragging rights of who has bigger brakes when in reality you will never use them to their potential.
If call people out for magazine racing but you do the same thing
![Tongue](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
No one said the brakes suck. WHat I am saying is they are not HUGE like the OP is stating.
Bigger brakes help fight fade and help somewhat with shorter stopping distances. Clearly everyone today goes for bigger brakes, from OEM to aftermarket. Of course pads are where you begin.
![Too Cool](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/toocool.gif)
Even the Hyundai Genesis has over 13" size brakes.
![Yum](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/yum.gif)
#29
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Originally Posted by I hate cars
And the 550 has 400+lbs on the TL.
The 2009 TL SH AWD and the BMW 550 both weigh ~ 3,950 pounds.
#30
AZ Community Team
Originally Posted by flydog
^ This idiot was supposed to be banned if he posted any more threads about brakes. He was warned.
#31
AZ Community Team
Originally Posted by flydog
^ This idiot was supposed to be banned if he posted any more threads about brakes. He was warned.
Here's my edited version
One would have thought that!
![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Overall the brakes are bigger but the weight has unfortunately gone up as well for the 4G (common syndrome for most vehicles). Curious what the results are for in actual road tests. The 3G TL 6MT with summer tires did 115 ft with no detected fade in three consectuive 60-0 stops. A 4G M3 does it in 100 ft.
Curious if the Brembo will return on the Type-S in 2010, I had a 2008 TL 5AT as a loaner a couple weeks ago (power steering hose recall) and I prefer the Brembo setup to the single piston front calipers.
#33
Team Owner
Originally Posted by LessisBestmakingendsmeet
The 550 does not have 400lbs on the TL. Its right under 4000 lbs. Clearly Acura thinks 19" wheels means performance, as they are with Michelin PS2s, some of the best if not best street tire around.
If call people out for magazine racing but you do the same thing
comparing the TL to the IS 350 for one race.
No one said the brakes suck. WHat I am saying is they are not HUGE like the OP is stating.
Bigger brakes help fight fade and help somewhat with shorter stopping distances. Clearly everyone today goes for bigger brakes, from OEM to aftermarket. Of course pads are where you begin.
Even the Hyundai Genesis has over 13" size brakes.![Yum](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/yum.gif)
If call people out for magazine racing but you do the same thing
![Tongue](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
No one said the brakes suck. WHat I am saying is they are not HUGE like the OP is stating.
Bigger brakes help fight fade and help somewhat with shorter stopping distances. Clearly everyone today goes for bigger brakes, from OEM to aftermarket. Of course pads are where you begin.
![Too Cool](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/toocool.gif)
Even the Hyundai Genesis has over 13" size brakes.
![Yum](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/yum.gif)
Bigger brakes only help fight fade. Until fade sets in they do nothing for stopping distances.
Acura has to use bigger brakes because the competition is using bigger brakes whether they need to or not and Acura can't be left in the dust even if there is no functional advantage because people like yourself and harddrivin jack off to magazine specs.
How do you figure I magazine race when I've run the IS350 in real life and I could've rear ended it multiple times through the corners. Even though he had the bigger brakes and sport suspension I was able to go much deeper into corners before braking. Not once did I run into brake fade with my base AT brakes.
The one time I did run into fade was when my girlfriend got into a wreck and I was trying to get across town which consisited of a highway with redlights so I would floor it up to 100+mph, slam on brakes for a redlight and back to 100+mph again over and over. This isn't anything most people will ever experience. They never faded completely but were close to total failure. The conclusion: Unless you drive like a total idiot on the street like I did that day you will never had a problem with the base brakes. On the roadcourse they will probably let you down.
#34
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Exactly, every car is designed with different purposes. The TL is simply a 4dr sedan with a bit of performance, luxury yet being affordable and reliable. 99%+ owners do not autocross their TL’s, or even drive hard. If you want something for that purpose, Honda will tell you that they offer Type R models and those brakes will last for many laps (refer to Best Motoring).
#35
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SHAWD versions will features brake cooling ducts. Pretty neat!
#36
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Originally Posted by Legend2TL
One would have thought. In the original post he "claims" he still owns his TL Type-S, where in previous posting he claims he traded it for a new Vette?
I'm driving my trade ('07 TL-S) in the meantime.
Is that concept too difficult for you to comprehend?
![Roll Eyes](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
Back to brakes...The '04 - '08 TL brakes (Brembo and standard) were significantly smaller than those used on the little, 3,300 VW Passat in the link below and were, in fact, were about the same size as the Malibu. At 3,503 pounds, the Malibu is 170 lighter my my TL-S automatic.
As you can see, the REAL performance cars have rotors that are in a whole different league.
http://www.caranddriver.com/content/...op_vehicle.pdf
#37
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'07 - '08 Brembo TL Type S:
Rotors: Ventilated 12.2" X .98" F; Solid 11.1" X .35" rear
Weight: Automatic: 3,674 pounds; Manual: 3,559 pounds
'07 - '08 standard TL:
Rotors: Ventilated 11.8" X 1.1" F; Solid 11.1 X .35" rear
Weight: Automatic: 3,623 pounds (without Nav), 3,633 pounds (with Nav)
The Brembo's front rotors were actually THINNER than the standard TL's front rotors and therefore weighed about the same. Rear rotors were identical.
"Brembo" in that application was more about MARKETING than anything else.
Compare those figures to those of these more modern cars and you'll see that the TL's brakes/vehicle weight combo (standard and Brembo) were the most similar to the Chevy Malibu in terms of rotor size. The rotors of the PERFORMANCE CARS in that test were much, much larger.
http://www.caranddriver.com/content/...op_vehicle.pdf
Rotors: Ventilated 12.2" X .98" F; Solid 11.1" X .35" rear
Weight: Automatic: 3,674 pounds; Manual: 3,559 pounds
'07 - '08 standard TL:
Rotors: Ventilated 11.8" X 1.1" F; Solid 11.1 X .35" rear
Weight: Automatic: 3,623 pounds (without Nav), 3,633 pounds (with Nav)
The Brembo's front rotors were actually THINNER than the standard TL's front rotors and therefore weighed about the same. Rear rotors were identical.
![Roll Eyes](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
Compare those figures to those of these more modern cars and you'll see that the TL's brakes/vehicle weight combo (standard and Brembo) were the most similar to the Chevy Malibu in terms of rotor size. The rotors of the PERFORMANCE CARS in that test were much, much larger.
http://www.caranddriver.com/content/...op_vehicle.pdf
#38
Team Owner
Originally Posted by harddrivin1le
I SPECIAL ORDERED a Corvette. You can do that with American cars. I expect delivery in 6 - 9 weeks.
I'm driving my trade ('07 TL-S) in the meantime.
Is that concept too difficult for you to comprehend?
Back to brakes...The '04 - '08 TL brakes (Brembo and standard) were significantly smaller than those used on the little, 3,300 VW Passat in the link below and were, in fact, were about the same size as the Malibu. At 3,503 pounds, the Malibu is 170 lighter my my TL-S automatic.
As you can see, the REAL performance cars have rotors that are in a whole different league.
http://www.caranddriver.com/content/...op_vehicle.pdf
I'm driving my trade ('07 TL-S) in the meantime.
Is that concept too difficult for you to comprehend?
![Roll Eyes](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
Back to brakes...The '04 - '08 TL brakes (Brembo and standard) were significantly smaller than those used on the little, 3,300 VW Passat in the link below and were, in fact, were about the same size as the Malibu. At 3,503 pounds, the Malibu is 170 lighter my my TL-S automatic.
As you can see, the REAL performance cars have rotors that are in a whole different league.
http://www.caranddriver.com/content/...op_vehicle.pdf
Different cars for different needs. I drove a new C6 Vette with the performance suspension all last weekend and I can honestly say I don't like it. It corners ok and stops ok but there just isn't enough power to overcome it's other shortcomings.....the areas that the TL excels in. And don't talk about real performance cars with your stock Vette. If we ran into each other on the street you would think you lift the e-brake on.
#39
AZ Community Team
Actually what's really hard to comprehend is how you rationalize logic and the laws of physics ![Too Cool](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/toocool.gif)
If you knew anything about vehicles and deceleration, you would understand that brakes are a system. With various dimensions, masses, forces, and materials a braking system turns mechanical kinetic energy into thermal (and sometimes electrical as in a hybrid/electric vehicle). The proper integration of these various components (master cylinder, brake pedal, rotors, porpotiional valve, calipers, pads, fluid, booster....) all work together as a system. You (as always) seem hung up on the brake rotor as being the definitive measurement for goodness of quality in a vehicle braking system.
If again you really understood brakes you would look at a F1 cars braking system which has no equal in cars. And yes their <12" carbon/carbon rotors and pads provide 5G+ deceleration. Try to comprehend and learn something.
http://www.f1technical.net/articles/2
In terms of the TL, it's performance has already been documented in previous threads by established automotive media sources.
![Too Cool](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/toocool.gif)
If you knew anything about vehicles and deceleration, you would understand that brakes are a system. With various dimensions, masses, forces, and materials a braking system turns mechanical kinetic energy into thermal (and sometimes electrical as in a hybrid/electric vehicle). The proper integration of these various components (master cylinder, brake pedal, rotors, porpotiional valve, calipers, pads, fluid, booster....) all work together as a system. You (as always) seem hung up on the brake rotor as being the definitive measurement for goodness of quality in a vehicle braking system.
If again you really understood brakes you would look at a F1 cars braking system which has no equal in cars. And yes their <12" carbon/carbon rotors and pads provide 5G+ deceleration. Try to comprehend and learn something.
http://www.f1technical.net/articles/2
In terms of the TL, it's performance has already been documented in previous threads by established automotive media sources.
Originally Posted by harddrivin1le
I SPECIAL ORDERED a Corvette. You can do that with American cars. I expect delivery in 6 - 9 weeks.
I'm driving my trade ('07 TL-S) in the meantime.
Is that concept too difficult for you to comprehend?
Back to brakes...The '04 - '08 TL brakes (Brembo and standard) were significantly smaller than those used on the little, 3,300 VW Passat in the link below and were, in fact, were about the same size as the Malibu. At 3,503 pounds, the Malibu is 170 lighter my my TL-S automatic.
As you can see, the REAL performance cars have rotors that are in a whole different league.
http://www.caranddriver.com/content/...op_vehicle.pdf
I'm driving my trade ('07 TL-S) in the meantime.
Is that concept too difficult for you to comprehend?
![Roll Eyes](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
Back to brakes...The '04 - '08 TL brakes (Brembo and standard) were significantly smaller than those used on the little, 3,300 VW Passat in the link below and were, in fact, were about the same size as the Malibu. At 3,503 pounds, the Malibu is 170 lighter my my TL-S automatic.
As you can see, the REAL performance cars have rotors that are in a whole different league.
http://www.caranddriver.com/content/...op_vehicle.pdf
#40
AZ Community Team
Damn, editing has become more difficult.
F1 brake rotors are typically 10.8" in diameter x 1.1" made from carbon/carbon composite
F1 brake rotors are typically 10.8" in diameter x 1.1" made from carbon/carbon composite