Xerxes480

(deep breath)

My story:
My TL was built on March 10th and delivered on March 19th. With the exception of a couple minor rattles, my car has only one problem: tire vibration first thing in the morning which goes away after 10 minutes or so. I knew about this issue before buying this car (long-time reader of this site, and I had a 2002 TL Type-S) - but I thought this was more of a temperature issue. I live in Seattle, and my garage temp never varies much between 55-65 degrees. I though I wouldn't have the problem, I was wrong. No matter the temp, I get the vibration, mostly felt in the steering wheel, and the overall ride feels rougher. Then it magically goes away.

So, I took my car into the dealership last week to have the rattles fixed and for them to look at the vibration issue. Their response: "known issue with the tires, and it's considered normal characterstics of the tire." Given the price/pedigree of this car and Firestone/Bridgestone's past history I strongly disagreed. I want the issue fixed, or new non-Bridgestone tires. They directed me to Acura Corp. Customer Service, assuring me I would be "taken care of".

I got my call from Mr. Jeremy Birkinshaw, "District Manager", this afternoon. Immediately from his tone I could tell this was going to be a waste of time. He was argumentative from the start, and repeated the "normal characteristic of the tire" mantra to me. He tried to push the "fixed" tires on me, until I pointed out the build date of my car and that I already had them. I said I at least wanted Acura to help me pay for a new set of tires. His response was that "in no way will Acura put new tires on your car - that's what it came with and that's what you get." He then directed me to go back to the dealership to have them look at the tires again. He also claimed all low profile tires have some flat spotting. My past two cars, a 97 Honda Prelude and an 02 TL Type-S, had low profile tires and guess what? Never had a tire problem. From here on out he became fairly unpleasant, and I ended the conversation. Remember, this is a "Manager" in a corporate CUSTOMER Service department. All he did was make me very very angry.

Now:
What good will it be to take the issue back to the dealership? Is it really worth my time? For those of you who have been through this, what did you do? At this point, I'm waiting until tomorrow to call Acura of Bellevue's Service Manager - I really need to cool off a bit. Honestly I'm not doing this because I hate the car (in fact I love this car), Acura, the dealership - nor am I doing this to simply get a better set of tires. I'm doing this because of potential safety issue - I haul my little boy around in this car every day, and I will not use any tire that I suspect, even if it's because of vibration.

Greatly welcome your thoughts and comments.

Thanks,
-X-

zeezz

From what i have heard, you may have some luck calling Bridgestone/Firestone themselves. they are the ones covering the tires and i think some members of the board have actually been covered by them instead of Acura for tires.

good luck

abwolf13

I live in warm southern cal and had the same problem. I new it wouldn't be worth the hassle so I just traded them in. Discount tire will give you a $60 credit per tire. I got the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S. MUCH better handling and no vibrations. Acura should have just put these on to begin with and charged a little more for the car.

Xerxes480

Would a tire shop take a used tire on trade-in? I already have 1000 miles on the car.

-X-

porsche911

You can do what I did, which was to call your local tire shop (or shops) and see if they would be willing to give you a deal on some new tires. My local shop gave me a great deal on some Yoko ES100's in 255/45/17 size, which I wanted. Several people in this forum who are in the area asked me if they could get this deal (I paid $95 OTD) and he offered this to others for $250. I went to tirerack & checked prices, the Yoko's were $116 & the EL42's were $165. He won't be able to sell the EL42's as new, but with only 2K on them, he will sell them for a pretty decent price. Good luck

TBone2004

X,
Had the same experience with dealer and the tires - full attitude towards me too. They offered to put on the "new" bridges and I said no, I hear that they are also bad - "well, you know you can't believe everything on the internet" was his reply. So I said, well since it was the same source that pointed out every exact problem with my car even beofre I got it - I'd say the source is pretty friggin good! I opted not to take new tires and they would not put on michies - guy was almost laughing saying ha ha ha you'll never get those tires from us!! So frig them, for now I will ride these out...did not want to go into dealer and start a hate hate relationship - despite it seeming all customer service/service people I have dealt with automatically hate us - the customer - the ones putting goddamn food in their kids mouths! So I will wait for a true no bridge tire fix or just replace em in a year or so. I asked enough of my mechanic friends and they felt there was no safety concern - but I do feel the same as you - we cart my 2 year old around everywhere.

dstackle

I had a similar experience with ACS. Eventually got my EL42's replaced with the new version. For me it solved the flatspotting problem (and they're quieter to boot).

I would have gotten no where if it were not for the dealer. ACS and Acura Corp has been a jerk about this from the start.

Hybrid

I talked with the same "Jeremy", unfortunately. He was also argumentative, rude, and the works. In essense, he told me there was no way Acura was going to assist in my problem with the tires (November 03 production).

Xerxes480

An update on this. After I cooled off for a day, I wrote a letter to my dealership through my salesman, who is a stand-up guy. I explained my frustration, especially with the way I was treated by Acura Corp. The result of this was an immediate phone call from the General Manager, who was looking to see if we could get this resolved and make me happy. (really positive attitude, which I greatly appreciate). He spoke with the regional service rep, and passed on the technical reasons why flatspotting occurs, etc. He stated there is a directive from Honda on how to handle the tire issue - which is replace the tire. The GM wasn't sure of the exact model, but was sure it was Bridgestone. I suspect the "replacement" is in fact the reformulated EL42s, which I would assume my car already has (built March 10). He is going to get back to me with the model information on the replacement tire. I did pose the question - "What if I want some other (non-Bridgestone) tire? Can you help me?" He did say they would in fact "help me", but that I wouldn't get free tires out of the deal (which is fine with me). Will keep you all posted.

An interesting note...he did acknowledge that the tire issue was quite big in the Northeast during winter, but that I'm only the third person to complain about this in the Northwest. I'm surprised at this...the vibration I experience isn't severe, but definitely noticeable - even with our fairly warm spring temps.

silverbishop

What I really cannot understand and accept is the "normal characteristic of tire" explanation that Acura/Honda representatives give. If it is normal, then why I do not have such a behaviour? That means that my tires do not behave normally, so I may demand that my tires be replaced with the "normal" vibrating ones. After having done 6000 miles, I do demand "normal" behaviour from my car. It makes perfect sense!!!!!!!

caball88

file a complaint with acura. even tho this is the district manager he has a boss too. word it nicely and just state your facts. not everyone in acura are idiots. they are aware i am sure and have had a complaint here and there regarding the same issue.

finishline

That's what I asked, caball, and I was told the only other recourse was to write the President of Honda America. I said, "You mean there is no other person you report to? There is no other person besides you to discuss this except the President of the company?" I was told, that this was my only other recourse. So I wrote a letter to Koichi Kondo, President of American Honda Motor Company, detailing the problem and my dissatisfaction with my treatment by Acura. That was over a month ago. There has been no response.

Xerxes480

Ugh. Had another conversation with the dealership GM this afternoon. The "replacement tire" in the Honda directive is in fact is the reformulated EL42. Now I have to verify the DOT number on my tires and call him back. If I already have them we're back to square one. Hopefully they're willing to help me buy new tires. If I don't have them, they take the car, perform a slew of special tests, and put the new EL42s (if I choose that route). I so want to say "screw Bridgestone" and refuse to get the new EL42s, but the dealership appears to be trying to help me out here.

And I totally expect to get blown off when I ask who to contact about my horrible "customer service" experience. But I WILL ask, and I WILL tell someone, even if it's the president.

alvon

Someone mentioned that there is actually no such thing as "reformulated" tires. They are the same tires as before, just different tire code on them. Try to see what the dealer GM can found out about these supposely "reformulated" tires. If Acura admits they are the same tires, then you may have a strong case to ask for a different brand of tires.

1violinist

Any chance of contacting Honda in Japan?

roadman

Bridgestone told me that they are making new versions of the EL-42, so yes there is a new version. Your best bet it to got to a corporate store, not a franchise and they will swap tire for you.

KeithL

At March 10th you probaly have the new tires, my car was delivered MArch 2 and had them.
I was lucky and went through Bridgestone, they replaced the EL42s with LS-Zs with little effort. I do beleive they are resistinga bit more lately, but go to a Corporate Firestone store and see if they will do it, if not ask for District Manager contact and drive it through him. Acura Customer Service sucks and they are no longer budging on the tires, the "fixed" tires are the answer. They do say thei will investigate people with new tires and still complaining, but I doubt they will do anything. Bridgestone was a pleasure to deal with and the LS-Z does flat spot a tad, but mine run out in 1-3 miles. I will never own another Honda product, but woudl consider buying from Bridgestone as their customer service has been great.

KeithL

They told me to call Better Business Bureau

They told me all Japanese Car companies are liek thise, I said Hell no, Infiniti treated me like a valued customer! And they will again on my next car!

I am composing letter to Pres of Honda Japan with a CC: to Pres American Honda.

micuccio

An interesting note...he did acknowledge that the tire issue was quite big in the Northeast during winter, but that I'm only the third person to complain about this in the Northwest. I'm surprised at this...the vibration I experience isn't severe, but definitely noticeable - even with our fairly warm spring temps.[/QUOTE]


I do no own an 2004 Acura TL but was seriosly considering purchasing one. The styling, performance, and overall value of the car are hard to beat. When I went to test drive a TL 2 weeks ago, I informed the salesman of the tire vibration issue. Naturally, he totally denied ever hearing about it. During the test drive (I live in SC, the highs here are in the low 80's/high 70's), I had the pleasure of experiencing the tire vibration as described and left the dealership without the car. After thinking about it, I spoke with the salesman and informed him that I would only buy the car if I had it in writing to have the tires replaced by a seperate brand if they ended up vibrating. Granted, they have not accepted my offer.

It is difficult to believe that Acura can be selling a brand new luxury vehicle that already has a problem associated with it. Either the demand must be very strong or individuals not aware of the tire issue do not notice it on the test drive. Personally, I just can't get myself to do it and, knowing what I know now, will probably not purchase one for this reason. I continue to read the forum and find it very helpful.

Hybrid

Well, if there are only 3 of us, you and I comprise 2/3 of them. Somehow, I don't believe that. Any others here from the Northwest that have complained to Acura about the tires?

It also seems that if there are only 3 of us, that they could make it right for almost no expense, and they would have 100% satisfied customers in the region with the tire issue. Hmmmm.

Xerxes480

Get this. Checked the DOT codes on my tires last night. The three remaining tires that came with the car are indeed the "new and improved" tires (5,6,7th digits are "TU2"). The tire I had to replace thru my local Bridgestone shop after I blew a tire 10 days after delivery is the original EL42 - 5,6,7th digits are "PVC". Is it possible one tire would cause enough vibration to be noticed?? I personally doubt there is much, if any, difference in the tires...they probably just re-labeled them to deal with us "complainers".

So now I get to call the dealer back and listen to him tell me I now need to harass Bridgestone to get this one tire replaced.

roadman

Acura will not swap any TU2's, Bridestone will swap TU2 EL-42's with build dates prior to 0604

Even the new EL-42's flat spot, not as much as the older ones but the still do it. They should vibrate less. Wet traction or lack of it is the same.

jdimaria

I just spoke to the BS District Manager for my area in NJ and she told me the same BS that Acura has said. This is normal for this type of tire and that the problem maybe just a balancing issue not a tire issue. She told me to take my car to a "speed shop" and have all the tires balanced at 70MPH. She said there was nothing else she could do. Just to let you know I am on my 3rd set of EL42's

browndognj

I'm in morris county NJ, just got my call that my replacement tires are in. I'm tempted to see if I can just do a trade with a local bridgestone/firestone store for tires posted above. Would she help with a trade in? We should just send these threads to the "powers to be"...maybe then they'll get it. I'm tempted to send the threads to each tv news channel in ny area, someone will pick it up.

rdjsw

I recieved my improved El's 4 weeks ago and have trying to give them a fair "shake". Other than a slightly improved ride, the over all experience is horrible. To make it worse, I also had the pleasure of speaking with Jerremy and cannot remember being treated so rudely by a "customer service rep". He basically said "no more tires, take it back to the dealer". I'm tired, this was suppose to be fun.

Xerxes480

So now I wait and wait for the dealership to track down one replacement "TU2" tire. I strongly doubt this will solve the problem, as I believe the PVC and TU2 tires are the same thing. Plus the weather has warmed up, meaning less flat spotting vibration in the morning...so the dealer is going to have a hard time confirming my problem.

Will keep you all posted. If I haven't heard from the dealership this week, I'm going to call them to tell them to forget it, and that I'm buying different tires and that if they want to keep me as a customer they will at least buy back my BS tires for a fair price.

-X-

rets

Wish you good luck... I'm really mad that Acura is going to ignore us by providing so-called "new" tires made of the same fomula as the old one...

However, Acura is happy there are only limited ppl (less than 1% of 04TLers) discovering this...
:o

BMINDES

Took mine to John Ealge in Houston..I saw the service bulletin regarding this (dont ask me #, i dont remember)...The car has to pass a series of tests which mine did, vin#,dot# on tire etc...they replaced with Yokahoma AVS-ES 100's at no charge....wheel vibration is history....

BM

rets

Didn't we talk this before? I don't know TSB#, either, but Acura ever said 2004 TLs up to VIN 031030 are all eligible for testing.

If they do testing, Acura dealers should drive your vehicle under the same conditions indicated by customers. Then, lower tires' pressure to 26 psi for the further testing.

Many dealers do follow this instruction to test your car in order to decide if they should give you "new" TU2 EL42 tires, but lots of dealers now just order "new" TU2 EL42s for customers without any testing.

Some ppl here recieved "new" TU2 EL42s from ACS directly.

BTW, it's always good to get another brand of tires instead of EL42s.
:o

Xerxes480

A long-awaited update to this. Around May 1st, the dealership replaced my one "PVC" tire with a "TU2". As expected, this did not improve the problem in the slightest. I gave the tires about a week and a half to give them a "fair shake", and took the car back in last night. They then drove the car first thing this morning, and guess what? They too felt/noticed what I've been complaining about from the start. The dealer GM called me this afternoon and said he talked to "engineering" and that they're aware of the tire problems (duh! - why have we wasted all this time??) and he will be talking to some regional rep next Monday to decide what to do about this. He mentioned taking the wheels/tires off a newer car owned by someone that works there. wtf??? Wouldn't chipping in some $$ to help me buy some new non-Bridgestone tires be the easiest and cheapest solution.

-X-

parabolica

Hi Xerxes... I too had an '02 TL-S and loved it. Two weeks ago, I acquired a new '04 TL Navi. Thanks to all the kind folks on this site, I knew of the EL42 issue beforehand. My dealership denied there was a problem with the tire and this did not surprise me. In the end, I went straight to a local tire dealer and he gave me $100 for each of the tires, even though he thinks very little of the EL42s. In the city where I live, dissatisfaction with the EL42 seems to be common knowledge the tire retailer community. In the short time I had the EL42s, I noticed they ran a little 'rough'. Now the car is on Michelin Pilot Sport A/Ss and I have noticed that the TL feels rather smoother and more responsive.

acuraddict

I got the Michelin Pilot Sports (non A/S) and they are great. Handling, road noise, wet weather, high speed, its all better. much better.

acuraddict

Hey buddy,

I feel for you, really I do. My EL42s were a disaster, and luckily my dealer gave me the Michelin Pilots at no charge. It would not have happened without the help of the district manager...but this was back in December before this whole tire issue became such a huuuuge deal for Acura.

My advice is to call Acura directly, write a letter, send it to your dealer, your district clown Jeremy (he sounds like a real a hole...that sucks) and to Acura and say....

Turanza - horribly rated tire. Just look at tirerack.com and see that this tire is rated around 2.8 overall compared to virtually every other decent tire in its class having about a 8-8.5 avg. consumer rating.

Turanza - ridiculously trecherous hydroplaning tire. You need to get rid of those tires before the wet season, ESPECIALLY with your precious cargo (your son). The is hydro issue is commented on over and over again on tirerack by consumers.

Acura - Switched to this cheap, sup-par tire in 2004 even though michelins come standard on the TSX (I'm pretty sure about this one).

You are a loyal Acura customer and you insist they take care of you. I'm on my 7th Acura in ten years, and that probably had something to do with my success at getting the Michies. I'm also a hell of a negotiator - its what I do for a living.

Side note: As you mentioned, several people have had success at going directly to a local Firestone Shop to get the tires switched. I'd try that first, and possibly save yourself a huge hassle.

You may also try selling the tires on ebay. Ebay is great, you can sell anything on there (including old New Balance and Nike cross-trainers!).

Good luck with it and enjoy your beautiful TL.

acuraddict

Who hired this Jeremy guy? We should all write letters to complain about him. Hell, I'm in Southern Cal and I'd write a letter just to support my TL compadres in Seattle.

acuraddict

NO, the normal characteristic thing has to do with the vibration that occurs at around 55 mph when you are in the automatic mode and the engine drops down to around 1500 rpms. The car is designed to do that, but the is a harmonic vibration that occurs which is actually a "normal characteristic on the 2004s. It will probably be rectified in 2005.

The problem I see is that Acura did away with the option of putting the car in D1 and D2 in automatic mode for 2004. The 2nd generation was better equipped in this regard.

Xerxes480

The GM of the dealership has finally agreed to buy back my Turanzas for $125/tire (~3000 miles on them). They ordered me some Michelin Pilot Sports for $198/tire with shipping. Labor will be free. He tried every angle with Acura/Honda to no avail. Basically they know about the problem, but since it's not a "safety" risk they refuse to do anything about it (until they figure out a solution - which I assume is different tires on the 05 models). In my case, the dealership is taking care of me out their own pocket, which I totally respect. Kudos to Acura of Bellevue...I'm a happy customer right now.

rets

Let's see if some 04TLers, who are not the members of this forum, finally get some accidents by thsi crap EL42s (maybe in rainy days) and newspapers public this news. That's the time Acura would consider it's the "safety" issue.... then, eveyone will get their demands granted.



Xerxes480, you seem to get the good deal out of your dealership. Good for you.

roadman

That sounds great for both you and the dealer, they get to sell the EL-42's to people for $150 and you get Pilots for $70 each

Xerxes480

That was exactly my point to Acura and the dealership. Yeah, sure it's a not a safety issue now. But given Firestone/Bridgestone's history plus the fact these "new and improved" tires aren't quite right - I'll NEVER trust the tires. I won't put my family and myself at risk...there are enough risks to deal with on the road today.

Xerxes480

Got my new tires installed yesterday. My first impression...WOW! Vibration (flatspotting) issue is 100% GONE. These Pilots make the care ride differently - the car feels more responsive. I may be imagining, but damn these tires rock. Rained real hard this morning, and it felt like I was glued to the ground. So far all the posts I've seen about these tires are dead on. If you want to replace tires...you can't go wrong with Michelin Pilot Sports. Dealership GM held to his word and gave me $125/tire for my Turanzas, free labor and a loaner car for the day. I ended up paying just over $300 for the Pilots.

Unfortunately every one of my rims is now ruined. Somehow the tire machine put a circular scratch/groove all the way around on every one. What I don't get is why someone didn't catch it (yeah right), and WHY they didn't fess up. Like I wouldn't notice as soon as I picked up the car!! So today the car is back at the dealership getting four new rims. (sigh) I just want this saga to end.

-X-