That's some great data. You convinced me. I'm going to slam my TL right now.

 

not an expert on this issue, but here's my guess.

less bodyroll means more weight on inside wheels, which means more traction.

more bodyroll the car is swaying around, dragging itself out=understeering.

repeat: not an expert on this issue.

Blackura have you made up your mind on the tires?

 

^ Yes i did

Falken FK452 245/30/20 & 255/30/20

getting mounted on monday

 

You're right on the first part. Ideally you want equal weight on all 4 tires.

More sway doesn't equal understeer or oversteer, it just means more weight is transferred to the outside.

Where I get frustrated is people always assume they can lower the car and put stiff springs and it's going to corner better. If all else is equal, lower and stiffer will handle better but it's seldom equal. It's about balance between over and understeer. Throw stiff lowering springs with the rear making contact with it's bumpstops and a big rear swaybar on there. The car now oversteers at a lower speed than it used to understeer with a stock suspension. It feels better with more precise steering and less bodyroll but a stock suspension car will run rings around it at the limit. If I were trying to make my TL handle, it would get a 1" drop at most with stiff springs and stock swaybars.

Blackura, I still believe it's an alignment issue. Running better tires will most likely make the problem worse.

 

i had just done a great alignment when i dropped in my teins, i guess ill have it checked out again after i put on the new wheels

 

More weight on the outside is more weight on the outside tires, overwhelming the tires causing them to lose grip while the inside tire loses grip because of too little grip?

 

Understeer aka "pushing" is when the front tires break free first.

Oversteer aka "loose" is when the rear slides first.

One of the reasons you don't want a lot of bodyroll is camber changes in the suspension. Some cars do fine with bodyroll. The Porsche 944 got best handing car in the world a couple times and I've been in probably 15 different 944s, including the turbo and S2 and they all have about the same bodyroll as the stock TL.

Ideally you want the load spread out over 4 tires but it's not "that" bad to have a little roll. On the street where there are bumps, a little compliance isn't bad.

 

well, i used to have a 04 330CiC, and it had no body roll, sweet car... great handling... now, we've got a CLK55 and its a got more body roll and travel the TL. it rides like crap. granted, its fast as fck... still rides like shit

my basis of comparison is my old TL... it really and truely rode GREAT. i honestly also think the basics were a better ride then the SS...

I wanna double check my end links and the RSB. pretty sure i installed everything 100%, but i remember, i turned the end link a couple of times, before i realized i was supposed to hold a part of it down, while attempting to disconnect and unscrew the bolt going to the RSB

 

I'm surprised no one brought this up yet. Your TL-S drives like shit cause its WDP

 

haha whatevers dude, you can try to state your facts and everything but the bottom line is that less body roll for a TL is better and to achieve this you need to lower it so your car is more flush to the road. then its a good idea to adjust your camber so you wont be eating your tires away.

blackura let me know how those tires are. i recently bought a set but never mounted them yet.

 

Yes, because the opinion of someone who knows nothing about cars far outweighs facts that are tried and proven for nearly 100 years. You're an idiot and I would put my stock suspension TL up against your slammed TL any day. It's a shame you're not smart enough to realize just how "not smart" you are. Once again, great post. I'm going to slam my TL and adjust my camber right now.

 

what up its me me kennys friend Jean, w/ the 06 tl..... wanted to know if you were able to help me out w/ the lights... holla @ me

 

Blackura get @ me whenever u can....

 

I have the same complaint with my TL-S in the NY area...mine is totally stock though...waiting to see where this one goes....keep it updated Blackura..

 

haha your the idiot, i probably know more than you to tell you the truth. yeah i wish i could, id show u wussup. so why dont you tell blackura to leave his suspension stock for the BEST performance LOL
because you know, stock suspension is the best with lots of body roll. lmao

sorry blackura for messing your thread up.

 

Bingo

 

LOL. Again, too dumb to know you're dumb. And again, absolutely nothing to back up anything you say. Let's all bag our TLs so we can handle like race cars....dumbass.

 

haha some people get to damn serious! geez, dude you want a cookie? i said nothing about bagging your car to make it into a race car nor did i say my car was one. i was just tryna give blackura an suggestion to his issue. its his choice to decide if he wants to take my advise, not yours, so stop tryna be a wise ass.

 

What would you know? You hate cars..... hahah :sarcasm:


I totally agree. While lowering a car to the extremes may make the car feel like it handles better because of the now lower center of gravity in actuality it usually does not. My TL was slammed and it handled extremely well until I had to really push it in the turns then you would notice suspension bind and the car was not so responsive. While other cars I have owned were not lowered as much and were more so in their optimum range for handling. Those cars would run down most cars in the twisties even though it had much less power. My RSX I know is too low for superb handling but that's fine. More into the looking good and still having fun cruising around town. Now if I were to take it to the track the way it is now well I would get annihilated by the competition.

So to sum it up lowering a car too much can actually hinder it's handling. Some people could care less.

 

You could use to learn a lot.... Also, camber is not what really eats your tires it's toe. Also, you would have to be running some pretty extreme camber (-2° +) to see tire wear caused by camber.

 

i got no complains bout my type s the onlty thing that bothered me was the 3rd gear problem i got bridgestone potenza re-01r and they handle flawlessly

 

yeah thats true, toe is the main problem for tire wear.

 

Try owning a Turbo Buick and you will hate cars too lol.

I was a little harsh on Nokia but it's frustrating sometimes. I've already slammed my (other) car and run solid suspension bushings on the street. I learned the hard way what suspension bind and snap oversteer is. I've done the huge swaybar and other feel good mods and learned that balance is more important than roll. Added sticky tires on the TL and found out I need more spring at the rear because at stock height I'm hitting bumpstops in the rear on hard corners and causing all sorts of weird behavior. Still have a lot to learn but I've got the basics out of the way.

 

whats so bad about a turbo buick

 

It's a love hate relationship. I loved it when it went 11s with $1,000 in mods. I hated it many times when for seemingly no reason it wouldn't start. It knew when there were girls around because this was the only time it would act up. As soon as I would start liking it again, it would do something else to piss me off. Overall it's a ton of fun but it's nice to have the TL as my daily.

 

 

Try going to a coilover. I know exactly what behavior you are talking about. The rear just sort of wobbles through the turn to the point you wonder if it 's just going to bounce outta your intened line of travel. I noticed the springs cut down on this behavior from the start but eventually as the shocks started to wear it became even more prominent. Once the coilovers went on that feeling for the most part was gone for good. The TL is heavy and stock the suspension really isn't meant for pushing hard. The Type S sould be a different story though.

 

That's exactly what it feels like. The rear steps out enough that I have to countersteer. As soon as I feed it a little steering it goes into understeer, bites, and back into ovesteer. Pretty much a wobble like you said. I can go in to a turn and toss the car aggressively and get the rear to slide and it doesn't wobble but when going for maximum grip it's a little unnerving. I didn't notice this with stock tires. What coilovers do you suggest?

 

Thats how my car feels...I guess I need aftermarket shocks

 

I would look into a set of Eibach Pro Street's or H&R's both should give a comfortable ride. The advantage to the Eibach's being that the Shocks are made by KW whom is ver well known for their coilover systems.

 

Want to drive my TL, its a 2006 and drives somewhat similar to what you're describing I got used to it.

Once the car felt really floaty but I punched it anyway and I swayed left than right like 3 times, I thought my wheel fell off. It wasn't crazy but I was like that's weird.

Btw I asked my friend about it and he said that its due in part to the tires falling into the tracks from 18 wheelers that are a result of those huge trucks sitting in the lane on a hot day in traffic.