gdong

I bought my 08 TL-s about 5 months ago and the previous owner threw in the a set of winter tires. However 2 of them are Blizzak WS-60 and the other 2 are Blizzak LM-25. I just mounted the WS-60s in the front and the LM-25s in the back, is it going to be ok?

Also, I'm not sure if there are tire sensors in these winter wheels. I was expecting lights / notifications when I drove around the block but instead the MID said the tire monitoring system was OK and that all 4 tires were 400kPa, which it definitely is NOT. Any ideas? Thanks!

Babnik

Should be ok, as long as they're the same size.

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

well the same tires have to be the same size

you can run different sizes from front to back of course

the tire monitoring unit will read high ass hell without the sensors... or wont read at all... it really depends what the car decides to do that given day

Babnik

Are you sure about this, wouldn't it confuse the VSA?

gdong

All 4 tires are 235/45/R17 so I guess I should be fine.

And it doesn't seem like I have tpms sensors in the winter wheels then. I only drove it around the block but am I going to get annoying chimes / lights mid warnings?

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

yes I am sure

a good example is

245/40-17 front
255/40-17 rear

YeuEmMaiMai

will most likely not make a difference but I would not cross manufacturers or type of tires IE BFGoodrich summer tires with BFGoodrich Winter tires.

BDoggPrelude

You're kind of in a bad situation and here's why: The WS-60's are an R-speed rated tire. The LM-25's are a V-speed rated tire. For safety's sake, you always want the highest traction tires on the rear of the vehicle. Unfortunately, in dry weather the V-rated LM-25's are your higher traction tire. In the snow the WS-60's are your higher traction tire. I guess having the LM-25's on the rear is the lesser of two evils but the setup is far from optimal IMO.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

You'll be fine. I don't use the TL in the winter, but on our 2008 knock around car I use snow tires just in the front and no problems, and they are a T rated compared to the H rated OE. I leave the OE wheels/tires on until it snows, then put the mounted snows on the front. Have done this with other cars in the past and never a problem.

Jesstzn

The TPMS indicator can go off anywhere from a block to 3 miles , and I still haven't figured out why the variation. Your going to get a chime to cancel out then a tiny light on the tach face thats hardly noticable.

As far as the tires never run a mix of winters on the front and summer/ all season on the rear. The first time you have to do any serious braking in anything but a straight line the rear will pass the front and your in the ditch or another car. I don't know if this is as much of a concern with 2 different rated winters tho.

apnorm

iTrader: (3)

I thought I read somewhere that it's a BAD idea to use mismatched tires but I could be wrong. You can make a simple call to Tire Rack and find out for sure though.

TLAwesome

I agree with BDogg that this is a bad situation. If forced to use these winter tires of completely different characteristics (which is what you are doing), however, I would put the WS-60s in the rear.

The rule about putting the highest traction tires in the rear assumes you're going to lose traction, and you're most likely to lose traction in snow & ice conditions in which the WS-60 will have the higher traction. The WS-60s are probably newer and have deeper tread too, which supports putting them in the back. However, I do not recommend this set up at all and I believe you are asking for trouble.

BDoggPrelude

The reason why I recommend the WS-60's on the front is because of the massive speed rating difference between the two different tires. Q, R, S and T rated tires, (especially snow tires), have a bad tendency to basically sway back and forth on the highway. This condition is also known as tread squirm. If the rear is swaying and the front is stable doing 70mph down the highway the car could lose control very quickly. But, the scenario that you spoke of is also dangerous obviously which is why it's pretty much a lose-lose situation. IMO, the WS-60's on the rear and losing control on the highway is more dangerous due to the higher speeds involved.

TLAwesome

I stand corrected. Given the squirm of the WS60s, which I have personally experienced, I think you are correct. The safest of the two evils is, as you said, the WS-60s on the front. But this is about as mismatched at using dedicated summer and all season tires. And of course, tirerack says of both the WS60 and the LM25 to install in sets of four only.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

You guys do too much reading. What do you think is going to happen when on the highway at 60 MPH with the 2 different speed ratings, end up in a ditch? Just put 2-3 more lbs of air pressure in the R rated tires, but keep it under 100 MPH.
FWD cars are tail happy to begin with, so with the TL's wonderful weight distribution (62/38), the rear certainly will come around easily even with 4 of the same tires when on a slippery surface if one's not careful. Drive sensibly and all will be fine.

gdong

I'm a bit confused now. Should I just leave the setup now and bias the air pressure +2 psi for the V rated tires or is this a bad idea and I should get 2 new matching tires?

I don't plan to drive more than 80mph or so, only when the roads permit it obviously. Like now when it hasn't even snowed yet and still hits 10C outside.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

I would suggest going 2-3 lbs higher on the R rated tires to stiffen them up to blend with the V rated which are stiffer.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

If you tried them on your car and they are mounted, check the air pressure and take the car out for a ride and you be make the determination, but I say they will be good to go.

BDoggPrelude

Actually, I'm a manager at Discount Tire. I make a living selling tires. I'm pretty sure I'm qualified to speak on the safety, or lack thereof, when it comes to various tire setups. You can also go to any major tire website, (Bridgestone, Michelin, Goodyear, etc), and look through their information sections and find that what I'm saying is common knowledge in the tire industry. I'm also speaking from personal experience. This is my first winter driving on T-speed rated snow tires and I have experienced first hand the way these types of tires handle at highway speeds. I wouldn't exepect the type of person that throws a pair of snow tires on the front of a FWD car to understand.

To the OP, at least keep the LM's on the rear of the car. The safest thing to do would be to buy 2 more tires that match whatever are the better condition tires you already have but I understand that money doesn't grow on trees. FYI, you might wanna give your local Discount Tire a shout. They might work you out a deal and give you some trade-in credit for the other 2 tires.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

First, it all depends on the vehicle that the T rated tires are installed, and if you're as knowledgeable as you state, why would you even consider a T rated snow tire as you certainly know from all your experience that they won't perform properly! Yeah, right!
Also, being a Manager at Discount Tire certainly isn’t a prerequisite to becoming an expert on the subject of tires as there are thousands of tire shops across the country, and their business is to sell tires. The more sales, the more profits.
Let the OP put the tires on the car and give it a try and then the decision can be made.

BDoggPrelude

I'm a little confused as to what's wrong with a T-speed rated snow tire? Tires in general are a give and take thing. Everything that makes a tire great for dry traction makes it bad in the snow and vice versa. The best snow tires out there are lower speed rated because they give up dry handling characteristics in favor of adverse weather traction. Also, what do I have to gain by trying to increase tire sales to somebody that lives on the other side of the country from me. I'm just making sure the OP understands all of his options. My advice is based on factual data. Your advice is just based on your own personal beliefs.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Nothing is wrong with a T rated snow tire. I was just curious as to how you did not know that the vehicle would perform poorly with the T rated tires before installation, and as we were speaking of snow tires, I assumed that is what you were referring to in your thread.

I believe everyone knows that an UHP summer tire will not be able to handle snow, in fact they aren't to be driven in frigid temps, and all season tires are slightly better depending on the tread design.

The reason that most all snow tires are not high speed rated is, not that they give up dry handling, but that the aggressive tread design for snow conditions generates too much heat and would destroy the tire if driven at high speeds continually. There are snow tires that are V rated, and most have 97XL load capacity that conquer the snow conditions quite well and afford high speed capabilities, but if you notice, the tread pattern is quite different then what most commonly think of a snow tire.

Everyone keeps speaking of equal traction at all 4 corners, so how can a car with a 68/32 weight bias ever have equal traction front and rear? The rear will always have less traction, even when all 4 tires are new. Take a look at the weight, 2450 lbs over the front tires, compared to 1150 lbs over the rear, more than double on the front. Far from ideal.

The comment of selling tires to unknowing customers wasn't directed to you directly, just to most anyone that is in tire sales, and not limited to tires, but alignments regularly, brake jobs, suspension components etc.

Back to my original recommendation, have the OP try the tires and if not completely satisfied, purchase new, but then as he’ll have 2 new, 2 used, certainly looks like another dilemma.

TLAwesome

That's a very interesting point Turbonut. What happens when you put a bunch of bags of sand in the rear seat/trunk? Would that improve winter handling (at the expense of, among other things, fuel economy)?

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

That's what we did years ago in RWD cars to get more weight over the rear wheels for traction, same as pickup trucks, leave loaded with sand. Naturally the sand in the trunk would make the FWD vehicle closer to the optimal 50/50 weight distribution, but it will also lesson the weight on the front wheels, and therefore the drive wheel traction will also diminish. Unless you're in a vehicle that is tail happy, e.g. a small coupe, similar to a Yaris, 2500 lbs with maybe only 800 lbs on the rear wheels, I wouldn't overdo the sand bags in the TL unless a noticeable end swap is noticed, but with normal driving it should be fine.