mikey4226

i'm looking for a new set of tires since my OEM ones are finally wearing down, and i'm trying to decide between these two all-season tires. the potenza's have been around so these seem like a guaranteed good choice, but the new f1s have some pretty good reviews too. the only thing that worries me is some reviews saying the f1's get a little noisy at higher speeds (although i only rarely ever take my car past 100...so that might not matter much) and that some people have noticed a slight drop in fuel economy by 3-4 mpg due to the f1s.

has anyone had any experience with both? or anyone with both? thanks everyone!

here are the links for each tire from the tirerack site

potenzas
eagle f1's

harddrivin1le

Do you HONESTLY believe that installing Eagle F1s will drop your fuel economy by "3 - 4 mpg?"

There will be NO MEASURABLE DIFFERENCE in fuel economy among all of the tires in that size.

csmeance

That is completely wrong. The F1's probably have more of a rolling resistance (making them stickier) or are much heaver than other tires. If you go to the acura mdx forums, you will notice a 3-5 MPG drop with the good year silent fortera's armored as well.

Bearcat94

I've had the 960's on another car for a couple months. Great tire so far.

The GY is (as you mentioned) pretty new, but with a lot of good initial reviews.

As soon as my OE tires wear out, I've got to make the same choice as you. I am leaning toward the F1 based mostly on the Tire Rack testing.

However, I don't think you can go too far wrong with either tire. They're both quality rubber.

mikey4226

I called a local discount tire store and asked them about both tires and the guy said i probably wouldn't be able to tell a difference between the two, so it would be smarter to go with the cheaper goodyears. Also, he said since the goodyears have that extra layer of kevlar, they are more resistant to being punctured, so thats a plus. Based on that, I think I'm set on getting the goodyears and giving those a shot. Hopefully the rumor about the fuel economy drop isn't true, but i guess we'll see....supposedly the manufacturer has a 30 day trial period, but not sure if discount tire has the same deal. If so, that'll give me a chance to see if it actually affects gas mileage or not. I'll report back in a few weeks after i get them installed and give them a try.

avs007

If you really "can't tell the difference" betweent the two tires, I'd get the RE960AS, because they have a 40,000 miles warranty, which the goodyears do not.

I don't expect the tires to last 40,000 miles (Pilot Sport All/Season only lasted me 20,000 miles), so I'd rather have a pro-rated warranty to pay for the next set, than cough up full price.

If you buy your tires from Americas Tire Company, (aka Discount Tire Company), they offer 30 day trial on every tire they sell.

mikey4226

thats true...the 40k mile warranty was a major factor, but i'm just really curious to see how good this "new technology" is lol. I wonder if they'd let me try to goodyears for 30 days, switch to the potenzas for 30 days, and depending which one i like more, either go back to the goodyears or just keep the potenzas....i feel like they'd frown upon that sort of thing though

harddrivin1le

Any difference in fuel economy won't be MEASURABLE or noticeable to the typical driver. The difference in rolling resistance simply can't be that much.


The difference will never be more than a few tenths of a MPG unless you install MUCH, MUCH larger tires.

I've been installing high performance, afermarket rubber on cars since 1986 and have NEVER seen a noticeable drop in fuel economy.

harddrivin1le

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=29


"Now, lets explore a scenario where a High Performance replacement radial tire has a whopping 20% increase in rolling resistance over a low rolling resistance Original Equipment standard passenger radial. To calculate the potential change in mpg resulting from using the High Performance tires in place of the Original Equipment tires, we would multiply the tire's percentage of influence in the vehicle's overall resistance (15% in the city and 25% on the highway) times the High Performance tires' 20% increase in rolling resistance.

If the vehicle equipped with standard Original Equipment low rolling resistance passenger tires normally provided 25 mpg in the city and 30 mpg on the highway, installing tires with 20% greater rolling resistance would only drop fuel mileage by a calculated 3% (to 24.25 mpg) in the city, and a calculated 5% (to 28.5 mpg) on the highway. While this is a measurable difference, it probably isn't much more of an influence on real world fuel economy than being stuck in rush hour traffic a couple of times a week or being stopped at every red light instead of continuing through a string of green lights."

Rolling resistance makes comprises only a small part of the total fuel consumption picture:

http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?re...=11620&page=40

mikey4226

^^ solid info...my guess is that since the tires are a clear upgrade from the oem tires, they probably found themselves being a little more liberal on the gas around corners - resulting in a drop in MPG =) I just placed the order for the goodyears and i should be able to get them installed by this weekend, so i guess we'll see what happens.

harddrivin1le

Here's the bottom line:

The Goodyear F1's rolling resistance will be NO MORE than 25% greater than any OEM tire used on any Gen 3 Acura TL (and will likely be quite a bit less than 25%).

But let's use the 25% figure:

Tire rolling resistance accounts for roughly 6% of the gas we burn.

6% X 1.25 = 7.5%

7.5% - 6% = 1.5%

Let's say the TL averages 24 MPG.

24 MPG X 1.5% = 0.36 MPG

So the car with the Eagles will average 23.64 MPG vs. the 24 MPG that it got with the stock rubber.

Summarily, IT DOESN'T MATTER! And if a drop of 0.36 MPG DOES matter than the person bought the wrong car and should immediately trade it for a Prius.

csmeance

also the extra weight of the tire has to be taken into consideration. The extra Kelevar in the tire probably weights something so it should add to the tires weight, which in turn needs more power to be turned, which in turn burns up more fuel.

ARX-01b

iTrader: (1)

Better start looking at HR speed rated tires if you think you are going to get 40k miles

avs007

I don't care if I get 40,000 miles, nor do I expect to get 40,000 miles. I was saying that since they have a 40,000 mile warranty, when they wear out at 20,000 miles like my last set, I'll get 50% off my next set of tires... That's cheaper then buying another tire without a warranty, and replacing it when you have to replace it.

Heck, even the tire installer said that. He said he doubts I'll get 40,000 miles out of the tires, but said that's not his problem, he said it's brigestone's problem. He said to bring it in when it wears out, (which he estimated was 30,000 miles), and they'd pro-rate the warranty.

Bearcat94

^^ Smart move.


I'm going to have to consider that when it comes time to dump these MXM4's.

DMZ

As one of the very few here on AcuraZine with the Eagle F1 All Seasons to date, I can tell you 1st of all those idiots who claimed they're getting 3-4 MPG less are either on drugs or are driving their cars insanely thanks to the fantastic traction these tires provide. I haven't noticed any noise issues, and in fact, have observed a 1-2 MPG INCREASE in highway driving. These tires are superior to anything I've ever driven on thus far.

Remember folks, the basic design of these tires is based on the original Eagle F1's, the highest rated ultra high performance tires in the world, used on cars like Vettes and Lamboghinis.

Those of you in the NY area can get them for $139 each mounted, balanced, and installed from www.mavistire.com. That price is from Mark J at their corporate office. Add $12.50 for a road hazard warranty.

http://www.goodyeartires.com/eagle/eagle_allTires.html
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modificata3

wilbur69

is the $139 a special? when i check out the website it says the tires installed are $173

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

3-4 mpg decrease is like 15% of 24 mpg.

The rolling resistance has to be insane for it to make that kind of difference.

What other factors have these people introduced that they aren't mentioning?

harddrivin1le

Review the weights on the Tire Rack.

The difference in weight between tires of the same size is even more negligible than the differences in rolling resistance coefficient (RRC).

NONE OF THIS MATTERS. THE OWNER/DRIVER OF THE TL WILL NEVER NOTICE ANY REAL DIFFERENCE IN FUEL ECONOMY WITH THE EAGLES VS. THE OEM RUBBER.

DMZ

To get that $139 price (235/45/17), you have to call the 800# and ask for Mark J at ext. 704. Have him fax you the quote. These tires are only stocked in their warehouse and could take a day or 2 to get delivered to the Mavis Tire center nearest you.

When I walked in to a Mavis Tire before talking to him, they quoted me $179.

thaita78

get the Goodyear F1-AS. I'm having a set put on today by America's Tire. Here's an incentive for you to do it. Goodyear $40 cash back offer.

mikey4226

the discount tire i'm going to quoted me $161 + $12.95 for installation - $40 goodyear offer - $20 prorate for my rear tires (not sure on this one) = $113.95 = Good Deal!

harddrivin1le

It's not a good deal unless it includes a road-force balance with a Hunter system.

DMZ

Unless I miss my guest, that $40 offer is for the set of 4, not for each individual tire.

avs007

Yes, it's for a set of 4, not per tire... Over the summer, Bridgestone had a $80 rebate on a set of 4, for the RE960AS. That's part of the reason I wound up getting a set of RE960 for 3 of my cars at the same time.

DMZ

Looking forward to your impressions.

fsttyms1

Ive had their even stickier F1 GSD3 and never saw a difference in mileage

TLTrance

Unfortunately for me, I can never be home to take delivery of tires that I order online, such as from Tirerack, hence I have to buy them in store, such as at Discount Tire. As such, its $171/tire, and if I want any Road Hazard Warranty, its like +$23/tire. Add the stupid installation and disposal/hazard fees + tax, and I'm looking at $905 for 4 tires... Dammit.

DMZ

Time to 'let your fingers do the walkin' through the good 'ol Yellow Pages.

You never know, ya might get lucky.

Bearcat94

If there is a Tire Rack "recommended installer" near you, you can buy 'em from Tire Rack and have delivered direct to the shop.

Best part is, you can see all install costs right on the Tire Rack site - mounting/balance, Road Force, valve stems, disposal, etc. So you can figure total cost to compare elsewhere.

And the costs are Guaranteed by Tire Rack as part of the "recommended installer" program.

avs007

You could... Personally, I'm done with that.... I'm happy with America's Tire Company...

Costco: They neglected to tighten my lugs... When I picked up my car, the locking lugs were not even finger tight, they were halfway off. I removed the other lugs, and tightened with the torque wrench I keep in the trunk (yes, I'm that anal), and none of the lugs felt like they were torqued correctly.

Les Schwab First Visit: Cross threaded some of the lugs, resulting in me snapping my 2" extension bar on one lug. Then snapping the stud on another.

Les Schwab Second Visit: As I was watching them through the window of the waiting area, I watched as they "tossed" the wheel on the machine, and MISSED. The spindle gouged the back of my rim.... A few minutes later after my wife calmed me down, I watched as some of the employees played catch with the sockets, by tossing them OVER THE TOPS OF THE CARS.

America's Tire Company (First Visit). Replaced my valve stems with chrome stems free of charge, saying it matches my hi-polished rims better.
America's Tire Company (Second Visit). After balancing, installed stick on weights, for a cleaner look. I still have gouge marks where Costco hammered on the previous weights.
America's Tire Company (Third Visit). I hand rolled in the forged rims from my other car, in the trunk. (This was shortly after the previous les schwab experience). America's Tire company actually installed little rubber feet on their machine, and I watched as all the employees who touched my Work Wheels, was extra careful, and made sure it was snuggly on the rubber feet of the machines.

mikey4226

Yea i just wasn't thinking right when i typed that out, but i was aware that it was for the set of 4....so the total should actually come out to around $600 (161x4 + 13 - 40 - 20 (maybe) = 597), if i did the math correct this time around....which still isn't too bad

Bearcat94

$150 per corner out-the-door isn't bad at all.

IIRC, when we did the 960AS's a couple months ago (different car - '02 TL-S), it was ~$175 per corner, but that included Road Force Balance and no rebate.

S PAW 1

Not true.
I have consistently gotten 40K+ with Michelin Pilot A/S for several years now.
They are Z rated.
DMZ, glad you like those F1's. I'm going to give them a try next time.
Nice, new technology. The Michelins are dated now, and Kumho's are noisy according to many readers on this forum. Seems like the best choice.

wingt

bridgestone potenza re960 as is good, my friend just put a set on few months ago, and he said is good , quite. I will get a set later too.

nfnsquared

I've got about 1000 miles on the 960's. Love them so far. Very quiet. Got them for the great ratings on wet/snow conditions

bluenoise

They don't ship to your home, they ship to the installation shop. I had mine installed by a place in Redwood City. I chose them because they have the Hunter Roadforce balancing system. The shop called me to make an appointment when the tires showed up. It was a piece of cake.

Archt26

I'm a full-time student and a full-time worker, and commute an average of 75 miles daily. After an hour of searching and researching, I have just ordered a set of 4 new Goodyear Eagle F1 All Seasons due to two reasons: 1) price. 2) all weather traction. The Michelin OEMs were way too expensive and snow traction was just not good especially for the asking price. I have paid $140 for each tire from Tire Rack. Before my order became finalized, a representative contacted me to verify some details concerning the order. I thought it had to do with my personal information, but instead, the rep wanted to inform me that "the Goodyear Eagle F1 All Season must be rotated every 3000 miles. They may also show uneven wear and exhibit excessive noise." I am just hoping that these tires won't be financially troublesome to maintain, but also worth the money to do so. I've paid the dealership $1400 to have all four oem (Michelin mxm4s) replaced and installed - not doing that again!

calgary2800

What a pita to rotate every 3k, Look for something else!