darksky

We got about 5-6 inches of snow last night and the RE960's do a killer job in unplowed kinda wet snow. Our subdivision is kinda twisty so I figured it would make a pretty fair test; traction control never kicked in and I felt like I had solid control of the vehicle up to the main road. Once I got there (unplowed as well), from a dead stop I punched it while making a right turn. Traction control kicked in as expected but as soon as I straightened out, I was going 50 MPH in no time. I love these tires.

Bearcat94

I've noticed they flat-spot a bit when sitting overnight in cool/cold temps. No biggie, but it's definetly noticable the first mile or two.

darksky

Crazy... I'll keep an eye out for that. I'm assuming the flat spot goes away as you drive on from you comments?

Bearcat94

^^

Yeah - doesn't take very long, they just need to build a little heat to soften up I guess. The car we've got these on parks in the drive way and I've noticed it when overnight temps get into the lower/mid 30's.

(BTW - I assume it's flat spotting. I can't figure out anything else to explain it. A mild, regular "thump-thump-thump" feeling on the 1st drive on cool mornings that goes away in a mile or so. Tires have maybe 5,000 miles/6 months on them.)

darksky

Odd dude... my car sat out all night last night (temp 25 °F). I'll see

erick3

love my set too! wish they took corners a little bit better though -_-

darksky

@erick3 - How much pressure do you have in your tires (cold front/rear psi = ?)

lusid

What are you guys running for tire sizes?

I run 245/45/17, and I'd say these tires are average in snow at that tire size.

PS. I run 33/32 for tire pressure cold.

darksky

@lusid - I have the stock 235/45-17 size... I recently found that my speedo is off by about 2 MPH so ironically, the 245/45-17 size would have offset that since they will make the car about 1.4 % slower! Would have been perfect

darksom1

Yo Dark! (I love that I get to call somebody that now!) - What happened when you checked this morning for flatspot?

darksky

@darksom1 - I did this morning when it was a whopping 6 °F (20 °F in my garage). I had none that I could detect as the car slowly rolled out of the garage and down the driveway. It sat for a full 13 hours.

S PAW 1

I am just offering my opinion here, so don't flame me (much...LOL).
I have seen the "ravs" on the GY F1 A/S's, I hear you about the 960's and maybe flatspotting. I just want to offer my
I have had Michelin Pilot A/S's on two Acura's now. They have never flatspotted, last a minimum of 50,000 miles, give excellent traction on dry, wet, and snow, cost a few dollars more. I personally won't buy Bridgestone due to the political games they have played in F1 by locking out Michelin, and any other competition. That view is subjective, and only fans of F1 might offer pros and cons.
My point is that the Michelin Pilot A/S's are easily overlooked since they cost a few dollars more.... but they are still a competitive choice.
There are lots of good tires out there to choose from.

avs007

That cool that you got 50,000 miles out of the Pilot Sport A/S (I assume you meant the Sport version, not the regular Pilot A/S), as I only got about 20,000 miles out of mine.

I think I might have gotten a tad better dry traction with the Pilot Sport A/S, but I think the RE960AS has better wet traction, as I'm not fishtailing as much when I punch it in the wet, as I did with the Pilot Sport A/S.

avs007

One of my friends says the same thing to me about Honda. Says that Honda twisted the definition of "Dry Weight" in the past in F1, giving them an unfair advantage.

Bearcat94

Hmmm, if that's the case, I need to double-double check my tire pressures.

Can't think what else it could be. Except the one's I referenced are on our 2002 TL-S. They are 225/50 IIRC - so carrying similar weight on a sligthly smaller contact patch.

darksky

@Bearcat - I dunno what to say... it could be that your particular batch is more prone to this than mine (different % of something in the rubber?) It could also be that mine are too new to exhibit this. I dunno My cold pressure is 33/32 but now that it's really cold outside, they have dropped to 31/30. I can't imagine that would make a difference. Once they get warmed up, they're usually 36/34 or 36/35 by the way.

darksom1

I looked on the N.T.G.M. website, and it states that proper troubleshooting of flatspotting can only occur after 24 hours, as the rubber is stiffer after this time. So you going to do it again Dark?

darksky

@darksom1 - I dunno if it'll sit for 24 hours but I'll post back if it does. It's usually closer to 12-14 h.

lusid

Personally - never noticed flat spotting, but I have noticed TERRIBLE AWFUL traction the first mile or so of driving as the rubber is cold.

Temperature ranging from -5 to 10degrees**

Bearcat94

FWIW - our car with the BS 960AS will often sit for 1, 2 or even 3 days without being driven.

Hadn't thought about the effect that might have.

darksky

Totally forgot about this thread. It has been 10-20 °F here recently (about 25 °C in my garage) and I haven't noticed any flat spots as you described them after sitting all night.

darksky

We got a fair amount of snow that was sort of wet, then froze last night. About 3 inches or so was on the ground and on the roads. It was sort of an icy mix on the bottom that was slippery, but also had some non-iced up snow on the top if that makes sense. Anyway, I felt very secure driving 55-60 MPH with the 960's on my TL through this stuff. They really cut though it. Traction control never came on even as I accelerated kinda hard. Anyway, for those thinking about this tire and how it preforms in the snow/slush, I would buy them again.

darksky

@bearcat - your observation was right! I had to replace my 960's after they literally deformed after sitting for 5-6 mo.!

I break up my daily commute which is kind of long between two different cars thus splitting the miles between the two. I have an older summer car (sports car) that's no good in the winter and my TL. I'm cheap and I don't insure both cars at the same time keeping one in 'storage' just sitting in garage about 6 mo out of the year.

Long story short, storing my 960's on my TL left them with pretty major flat spots that took about 30 miles to 'fix.' The ride quality was still very poor (noise, vibration at speeds above 55-60, etc.) It was so bad that I took them into the local tire shop to see what was wrong. They balanced them but the problem was still there. I returned and asked that they measure the road force on the tire (link to that here). All 4 of the them had excessive road force even after they spun them on the wheels. The tech said they were defective and had 'severe hop.' They were fine before I stored it.

I've been switching cars/trucks like this for all of my adult life and NEVER experienced this before (different cars and trucks by the way). Did I get a bad lot of tires or is the way the construction/design of the 960 incompatible with long-term storage while on the car? I dunno.

Just wanted to update the thread for those who find it and are considering these tires. Don't get them if you plan to let your car sit at least long term.

lusid

Put around 18k on my 960's and things are still going good.

Flat spotting only has occurred when it's extremely cold, but vanishes in a few miles of driving.

Snow traction still sucks imo because the rubber initially is cold and I think the tire is more designed for a more warmer climate.

Rocketsfan

I put about 45k on mine before I got rid of them (the front pair had become bald). I had no complaints with my 960's except I don't think they gripped during cornering/acceleration as well as I'd like - there were times I'd punch it from a stop onto a right turn and the tire seemed to slip. Great rain traction though. I'd definitely buy the tire again - I almost did, but saw the Pilot A/S on clearance and opted for that instead. FYI - I didn't have a ton of snow or ice experience with the 960's, but what little I did have, they did well (if you don't drive like a nut).

Bearcat94

darksky, I'm sure your situation is pretty unusual with regard to having a car sit 5 or 6 months. Most folks will drive the "other" car at least a few times a month (if it's a TL anyhow. If it's a Ferrari, guess not :lol: ).

I'd say that a small amount of flat-spotting on the 960 is normal under certain conditions and goes away within a mile or two.

On another note, I'm not sure I'd just let a car sit for 6 months on any tire. I think the usual advice is to lift the car, drain certain fluids and remove and store wheels/tires.


BTW - what did you replace the "defective" 960's with?

darksky

Yeah, this time when it sits, I'm planning to get some used wheels/tires so they can get messed-up. To answer your question, I shelled out the $ to replace them w/ the 'Plus' version of the Michelin Pilot A/S that has gotten such glowing reviews. We'll see if they live up to the hype over the next few weeks.

I honestly didn't know what to get having ruled out the GY F1 A/S and not wanting to try another set of the 960's.

Most of the other models I looked at had several horrible reviews regarding winter performance which is the whole reason I went aftermarket for tires. I know the best option for winter is a dedicated set of real snow tires, but I just can't bring myself to buy another set of wheels and expensive tires. Anyway, I'm rambling.

Bearcat94

Over the next few weeks, they will definetly live up to the hype -very nice tire so far. No snow. Dry and damp running only for me so far.

Over the next 15k, 20k, 40k miles - - we'll see.

srhewes

Just purchased Potenza RE960 A/S Pole Position's yesterday to replace my OEM Turanza's. Glad to hear they did well in the snow, as that was a major issue for me with my OEM's. I'll check the flat-spotting today. Will also get to see how they do in light snow and some icy roads, as that is what we have here today.

Zoser

I didn't notice any flat-spotting in sub 30 degree weather on my new Pole Positions

TLTrance

I have about 35k miles on my RE960s now, and they've been great through all sorts of weather (except snow, since I don't live in a snowy area)... And I still have 6.5mm tread left!

DMZ

I have no doubt the Michelin Pilot A/S's are good tires, but they're actually MORE than just a few $ more. I wouldn't buy Bridgestone after multiple bad experiences on the OEM's that came on this car and situations I had with them on a previous car. To me, a Bullshitstone is a Bullshitstone is a Bullshitstone is a Bullshitstone, no matter what.

I'm very happy with the Goodyear Eagle F1 A/S's at $149 each ... mounted, balanced, installed, and Road Hazard warranted. They're great in the snow and I've been getting about 35K out of a set.
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