smarty666

I see on tirerack that the Michelin Primacy MXM4s now come in the P235/45R17 for the TL. I was curious to find out if anyone has tried them and if so how were they?

smarty666

Does anybody know what the difference is between the Michelin Primacy MXM4s and the Michelin Primacy MXV4s????

vinnier6

iTrader: (1)

if its anything like the oem tire that came on my type s and my accord, they are horrible...why would you pay that much for a tire that sucks soo bad...

i just put yokohama advan s4 on my type s and all i can say is wow...what an improvement and like 50 or soo less per tire too...

on my accord, i went from the mxv4 to bridgestone re 960 as and it was also a major improvement...so look in around and keep an open mind to tires, there are other brands besides michelin....

smarty666

Calm down, I'm only asking a question. They are not the same tire as the OEM Michelins. Those are the Pilot series Michelins, these are Primacy's which is a different class. They are rated very highly on tirerack by their staff and consumer reviews so I wanted to find out if anyone has them on their TL and if they like them.

They are Grand Touring tires, which is what I have on my TL now, I'm not looking to get UHP tires because then ride quality and noise level start to be sacrifice compared to their Grand Touring counterparts and we don't get enough really bad winter weather that I need UHP all year long!

The MXV4 Primacys do not come in the TLs tire size but the MXM4s do and I wanted to know what the difference was that is all. I'm not saying I'm going to go with Michelin, personally, I like Bridgestone, Pirelli, Kumho, Michelin, and Yokies so I typically choose from those brands when shopping.

vinnier6

iTrader: (1)

i am calm...i was just giving you some feedback on the experience that i had with michelins that i have had on a few cars...

the tires i choose are alot more quiet then the oem michelins that were considered "grand touring"...

vinnier6

iTrader: (1)

btw, i didnt see any good reviews of that tire on tirerack, just bad comments by consumers...i just didnt want to see someone pay too much for a bad tire!!

smarty666

You don't seem to understand that the tires I'm talking about are different then the OEMs that Acura puts on their vehicles and they have primarily given rave reviews by tirerack so I don't know what site your looking at. Here is the links to support what I'm saying.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/test112.jsp

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...ay.jsp?ttid=86

http://www.tirerack.com/survey/Surve...num%3D345WR7TS

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/survey....jsp?type=GTAS

Take a look in that last link there what tire is at the top of consumer survey chart for grand touring tires!

What I'm trying to figure out is what the difference is between the MXV4s and MXM4s? There doesn't seem to be much of a difference yet there are very few reviews and no tests for the MXM4s!

I think the Michelins are a nice tire, but I think they are a little bit too pricy and you can get just as good of a tire for a lot less money than what Michelin wants!

Sandals

iTrader: (2)

I have found that they do not last very long. I believe that they are stock tires and if i remember they are a little on the pricey side.

smarty666

Okay, they are not the stock tires. The stock tires Acura uses on their products are the Michelin Pilot HX MXM4s. I agree with you all, these OEM tires are not that great and are way over priced. I would never get them put on the TL as a replacement tires.

I am talking about the Michelin Primacy MXM4. There is a difference between the Primacy and Pilot series tires. I was just curious to find out if anyone has put Primacy's on the TL and if they liked them or not. Nothing more, nothing less.

The only tire of Michelin that has been rated really well and many TL owners have had good luck with is the Michelin Pilot Exalto's A/S which is a high performance tires put out by Michelin. I believe the speed rating is a H but the size is correct and many TL owners on tirerack have had positive experience with them.

Sandals

iTrader: (2)

I didn't know there was a pilot and primacy series. It seem dumb to have the same ending, my mistake. On regards to the Exalto A/S, I have the plus and they grip very well in wet and dry although they due lower MPG by about 1 or 2.

smarty666

Wait, so you have the Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S? I don't think they come in plus. Are you sure your not talking about the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus?

Sandals

iTrader: (2)

I'm not sure right now they are on my mom's car, i have primacy something,

NBP04TL4ME

Not necessarily what you were asking - but we had put Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S on my wife's Lexus and we were thrilled with them. Responsive, excellent in the rain and very good in the snow. Again, not the answer you were looking for but they were (traded the Lexus) an excellent tire.

smarty666

That is wonderful to hear. The Exalto's would be the only Michelin's I would put on the TL and the price isn't too bad. I don't need anything more than a high performance tire. I know there are several UHP tires that people put on the TL but I'm just too worried of sacrificing ride quality and noise level by going up to the UHP level. Though based on the reviews I read and for the price/value, I think the Prielli PZero Nero A/S and Yokohama ADVAN S4 are your best bet.

calgary2800

Get the Exaltos if a crisp steering response is your #1 need. I have the Pilot Sport A/S plus now and miss it.

ChuckDu

The Primacy MXM4s seem to be OE tires on some Mercedes, Cadillacs, Infinitis, and Volvos based on the Michelin website. As you've noted, there are only 3 Tire Rack reviews listed for this tire (and two of the three reviews are for PILOT MXM4s, not the PRIMACY MXM4s!) Also, there's no Tire Rack "survey" and no other Tire Rack comparisons that include this specific tire.

My guess is that Tire Rack started selling this specific tire at the beginning of the year (1st review is from January 11). I'd also venture to guess there are only a few, if any, 3rd Gen TL drivers who have bought this tire as a replacement tire since it "only" comes H-rated and at relatively steep price.

One bit of advice... Do not base your purchase of the Primacy MXM4 on the reviews, surveys or ratings of the Primacy MXV4 (good) or the Pilot MXM4(bad). They are different tires.

NBP04TL4ME

From a price perspective - and I don't know where you live - locally for me the Exaltos are available at BJ's Wholesale club. They usually have a very competitive rolled up price including mounting, balancing, valve stems, tire disposal, etc... At least this was the case for the size the Lexus needed.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

First, the Exalto is only a H rated tire, but that would be fine if you don't intend on doing over 130MPH. I put these on the daughter's Maxima two years ago, fantastic all around tire, winter/summer, and have highly recommended these tires in the past. I always recommend the 245/45-17 for the TL, but 235 is the largest size available for the Exalto. Can't go wrong with this tire. The S4's are also a great tire, a little stiffer, so harsher ride, but they flat spot in cold weather, and after sitting for some time it takes miles to straighten the nylon out. Any tire with a nylon cap will ball up and have flat spotting after sitting if in a cold environment.
The Primacy MXM4 is also a 94H rated tire, but with a 500 wear rating compared to the Exalto's 400, but $60 a tire more and 3 lbs less, Green Tire. The Pilot HX MXM4 arte poor, so don't put them on the list.

After all this double talk stick with the Exalto's, you'll be glad you did.

smarty666

Nice advice Turbo! Yeah that is the only disadvantage I have had with Yokies in the past is the flat spotting when they sat for any period of time. Other than that they were great!

vinnier6

iTrader: (1)

if you will notice in my first post, i said if they are anything like the oem michelins....so i do understand what you are asking, i was just trying to give you what i thought was some sound advice...i hope it works out for you...

S PAW 1

I have had Michelin Pilot A/S's on my last TL, and now my TL-S. I also put the Exalto's on my wife's Toyota Celica.

The Exalto's are extremely long wearing (on her light Celica), and decent in the snow. I actually believe the sidewalls will dry rot before she runs low on tread

The Pilot A/S's handle substantially better, as least as much as I can compare. Two totally different cars. They won't last as long (only 55K), and are also decent in the snow. They are UHP, as you say.

I would never consider placing Exalto's on my TL-S for several reasons. First of all, I consider it high performance, especially considering the mods. For the same reason I wouldn't put regular fuel in it (don't want to open a can of worms on that one...discussed ad nauseum).. premium only, by the book.

Secondly, you may be hardpressed to find a dealer that would even consider installing Exalto's on your TL. The TL came from the factory with a certain speed rating, and proper speed rated tires. It has been discussed thoroughly on this forum as some dealers consider it illegal, as it just might be, to install lower rated tires. Makes no difference that you won't fly at those speeds, it's just that you have the capability.

So, I guess my question to the OP is....Would you really want to put Civic or Accord type tires on your TL? You paid big bucks for a car that obviously appealed to you for many reasons.

So take good care of her, and fully enjoy all she has to offer

P.S. After reading the reviews, and reading the comments on this forum concerning the MXM4'S...I wouldn't even take delivery on my new baby until those POS's were changed out to the Pilots...just my 2cents


'07 TL-S CBP
FUJITA F5
PROGRESS RSB
P2R TBS
Braille battery
V1 on the lookout

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

First off, it is not illegal to install a H rated tire on the TL. Second, as many consider the TL/TL-S a high performance vehicle, but in my book it is a far cry from that category. If the OP is to drive the car and stay under 130MPH there will be no harm in the installation, so why put a UHP tire on the car so you can have a back breaking ride and never reach the tires potential.

Here's a V rated tire for $59.60:
Diamondback TR968 235/45 R17 94V
UTQG: 400-A-A only $59.60

Or a W rated tire for $62.00
Sunny SN3630 235/45 R17 94W
UTQG: 280-A-A only $62.00

I'd certainly feel a lot better having these on my TL rather than a H rated Michelin Exalto, yea right!

smarty666

Do you even realize that the OEM Michelin and Bridgestone tires Acura puts on these cars costs a fotrune and they are not great tires by any means.

First off, the Exalto's are high performance tires, not ultra high performance as you say. The UHP tire from Michelin is the Pilot Sport A/S PLUS!

As I have said time and time again, I have no need for UHP tires on my TL. We do not get enough bad winter weather here that I would only really need the handle capability and road grip they give 2 or 3 times a year.

I have never heard anything from Acura or anyone else for that matter saying it is illegal to put lowe speed rating tire on any car, let alone the TL. All Acura cares about is that at the time your lease is up and you turn the car in that you have no less than 4/32nds on your tires and that all four tires match each other.

Do you know how difficult it is to find a tire that exactly matches the OEM specs for the TL. Even if the speed rating is the same, the load index is different, if the load index is the same, the speed rating is different. You could go round and round. The TL and even the Type-S are far cries from sport enthusaist capability. For me a grand touring tire give me more than what I need for year around stability. My highest priorities with a tire are ride quality and low noise which most UHP tires can not hold a candle to, to their grand touring counter parts.

If I had a G37-S or BMW 3-Series, then maybe I might consider a UHP tire but I just don't think the TL needs one, unless you live in like Minnesota or Maine maybe. Plus, I have never gone more than 100mph with my TL so what difference would it make if the tire is capable of only 130mph compared to 168? it doesn't! Not unless you go drag racing with your TL every weekend.

smarty666

I've never even heard of those brands Turbo!! lol

calgary2800

Very interesting comments about actual driving needs and what tires to put on. When I was putting tires on I was debating MXM4s or Pilot Sport A/S. I chose the Pilot Sports for well lame reasons.

1. The name was cooler
2. Had a more youthful, sporty look to it
3. The Primacy reminds of me tires you put a minivan

Either though my needs for a tire should have made me buy the Primacys I went with my emotions and bought the UHP tire for my 06 Accord.

But next time I'm getting grand touring tires, I drive A LOT of freeway miles and now use earplugs. Could be the tires of the car, probably the car, The Accord is a noisy car period.

S PAW 1

I don't understand your attitude Turbo

The fact remains that many shops will not install the tires, period. If you have found one good for you. It comes down to liability. If SMARTEE666 crashes his TL at over 130mph, there is a possibility that he could sue the tire shop for installing an inferior rated tire, expecially if it's a blowout.

The number of people that make comments about the performance of their TL's and TL-S's far outweigh yours [I]opinion[I] Let people enjoy their investments without being attacked by you. If you want to voice an opinion, we all appreciate it without the attitude. If it doesn't meet your definition of high performance, that's fine....you are heard.

Do you think naming a few relatively unknowns strengthens your position?

I have never experienced a back breaking ride with my Michelin Pilot A/S's. I find them very satisfying.

SMARTEE666: I said the Pilots A/S's were UHP, not the Exalto's.

I agree with all that the stock MXM4's are not worth anywhere near the money, nor would I consider them as a replacement for any tire.

S PAW 1

As I have said time and time again, I have no need for UHP tires on my TL. We do not get enough bad winter weather here that I would only really need the handle capability and road grip they give 2 or 3 times a year.
SMARTY666:

UHP has nothing to do with winter weather driving. It refers to dry weather grip and performance. Not to be disrespectful, but maybe you need to read up on theses tires a little more, and actually read the post a little closer before making a comment such as what I refered to as a UHP tire.

Sorry about the mispell earlier.
Good luck on whatver decision you make

S PAW 1

The Pilot A/S's and the Pilot A/S Plus are basically the same tire. Michelin changed the compound on the center rib to reduce it's quick wear, and made a few other minor changes from what I read on Tirerack.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Sorry if I came across that way, but here on a Forum it is an open door to display your thoughts/knowledge, and at times someone might not like the response. There is no law preventing anyone to install a lesser speed rated tire. Tire manufacturers and tire industry associations recommend using replacement tires of the same speed rating as was originally installed on the vehicle, but there is no industry or legal REQUIREMENT that this be done. If this is done the buyer is according to RMA guidelines is to be informed that the replacement tires are of a lower speed rating than recommended by the vehicle manufacturer.

Sorry to step on your toes, but once again, the 0-60 times posted by these cars leave a lot to be desired when classifying them in the high performance category by today’s standards, and if one perceives it to be a high performance vehicle by their standards that's fine, but as he voiced his opinion I voiced mine.

Why wouldn’t it. The example was used that a rating higher than H must be used on the TL (S), so you have 2 examples of a low cost UHP tire, but I certainly would rather install $180 H rated tires.

I never mentioned a brand, but the next time you're at a tire shop, take some of the UHP tires, stand them upright and push on the tread. You’ll see that some won’t budge at all, while others will give slightly affording a better ride, but not the ride of an H rated tire that flexes quite easily.

smarty666

I don't know why you have to get mad and turn this into somthing so personal. Get over it. Just because Turbo and I do not agree with your position doesn't mean your right and were wrong.

The fact of the matter is, there are plenty of people on here and plenty of tirerack.com reviews of third generation TL owners who put Exalto's on their car and have had absolutely great luck with them. So this speed rating thing your trying to shove down our throats is bogus!

If anyone needs to read up on tires I think it is you. UHP are better in the winter time, as you pointed out because they can grip the road and handle better. Just go to tire rack and look at the wet, snow, and ice traction ratings for each tire class. You'll find that the HP and UHP tires almost all of them have much higher numbers in those categories then their grand touring counterparts. Why don't you start reading up before excusing someone else because they don't agree with your position!

The fact of the matter is, UHP start to sacrifice ride quality, noise level, and treadwear in order to provide the best grip/handling for all season tires. If my highest priority is ride quality and noise level, then a tire like a UHP would not really suit my purposes.

I'm not saying that UHP tires do not have a purpose or are bad, in fact, there are several that are rated really well that I would get if I needed a tire like that, namely the Pirelli's and Yokies, but I don't so why hash it over. If you have the type-S, I might see getting a UHP tire over a HP or Grand Touring. It all depends on what TL you have and what you want out of your car.

The Exalto is a more then adequate tire for the base TL and unless your going to drag race and speed over a 130mph, YOU DON'T need a W rated tire! Stop trying to scare people otherwise.

S PAW 1

SMART666:
You missed tire class 101. You are confusing UHP and UHP ALL SEASON tires.
A non all season UHP should never be driven in below freezing temps, due mainly to the hard compounds used. An A/S tire has more of a mix of soft compounds, and generally gives away some ultimate dry traction to have all season capability. This is why you have the PILOT A/S's, and the Pilot Sports.

TURBONUT:
You are correct in that many cases the sidewalls are stiffer, and therefore results in a less comfortable ride. If that is your preference, go for it. As stated, it is a matter of personal preference.
I consider my TL-S high performance because it is 2/10's faster in the quarter mile than my "high performance" '69 Roadrunner. I consider it because when major magazines do comparisons, it is against other "high performance" cars. When I read Acura's news clippings, it reveals who they feel they are competing against in the "high performance" world. Or I can just roll over to another discussion taking place that describes how much the "high performance" of our Acura's appeals to them.
It's not an exotic, but most owners do not agree with you if this forum is any comparison. So the real statement should be"I personally do not beleive the TL/TL-S as high performance", rather than being a "far cry" from that classification.

I stated that the use of a lower speed rated tire MAY be illegal. There are numerous threads by TL/TL-S owners that tell stories of dealers not installing those tires, or making you sign a release.
I am not trying to scare anyone, nor am I an attorney. IF you find a tire dealer that will install those tires, and you feel comfortable with it, then that is your choice.

SMARTY666: Do you think Acura would have saved money by installing a lower speed rated tire as OE? Of course they would! Just install a governer, and save all those unnecessary dollars. If your dealer won't install the tires, let's see if you let everyone know.

I don't have a problem with anyone disagreeing with my opinion. That is the primary purpose of this forum. Where I try to interject is when people throw out absolutely false information, which they are basing important decisions on.
In this case, it appears as though the OP pretty much had his mind made up before he even started the post. Vinnier has been accused of not being calm, and the OP has made it clear that if anyone interjects an opinion which may sway his decision, as too aggressive.

I personally don't care which tire you buy. As said, it is a personal decision. Just like being biased towards a particular oil. Lot's of knowledge is found in this forum, it's your choice whether to accept it, or disregard it as BS.

Good luck, either way.

smarty666

I never at any point was talking about straight up UHP tires because you are correct, they shouldn't be used in very cold weather. This whole time I've been talking about all season UHP. If I didn't mention that earlier then that is my bad.

S PAW 1

Well, that makes a heck of a difference

Like I said, the Exalto's have amazing tread life, at least on the Celica.
She has over 70,000 miles on those things, and look like they'll go at least another 20,000. She is very happy with them.

Just a note: I am quite anal when it comes to tire pressures and rotation. I know that makes a very big difference when comparing mileage to what others are getting on this forum. I have been called a liar on more than one occasion when I tell people that I easily get 50K from Pilot A/S's, but that's OK, the proof is on my wheels.

Again, good luck on your choice

smarty666

Don't get me wrong there are several really nice all season UHP tires. If I was going to get a UHP tire on the TL, I probably get either the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus, Pirelli PZero Nero A/S, or Yokohama ADVAN S.4

I probably go with the Pirelli only because they are a little bit cheaper and in every road test that tirerack did with them against the Michelin's the Pirelli's were rated the best of all the UHP tires for ride quality and noise level!!

S PAW 1

I don't know how much snow/ice you get there in NJ, but an A/S tire is very important where I am in Ohio. Not enough to switch over to snow tires, though.

Amazingly, I have always been a fan of the Pilot A/S's, but this winter I had to cut back costs and went with the Kumho ASX. I have been very surprised by how quiet and smooth the tire is. It doesn't have the ultimate handling capability of the Michelin's, but for your driving style, it may be a look.
Just my

I only looked at them because they used Kumho's at the MidOhio Driving School, which I graduated from in 2007. They are priced right. I can't predict how long they will last yet.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Taking a ’69 Plymouth, even if it had a Hemi, is like comparing apples to oranges with modern day suspension, electronics, and motor efficiency. Those cars from the 60’s would get terrible mileage, were heavy, rumble and shook at idle, and although a blast to drive, but they are no comparison to present day vehicles.

This is the real statement, sorry, but with FWD and 286 HP in a 3700# car; I feel they are a far cry from a high performance vehicle, which I would consider high performance as under the 5 second 0-60 time at the minimum e.g. the Vette, Cadillac V series, et al. The TL-s is high 5’s and the TL in the 6’s, and once again I’ll repeat, this is my opinion. You can read all you want and see what the people on the Forum write, but do you really believe that the owners that have the TL-S would actually say they are not high performance? Certainly they wouldn’t. Even the Maxima's are a high 5 second vehicle.

To end this debate, once again I’ll repeat, there is no law to be found that states a lower speed rated tire can’t be installed, and if you find one, not written on this site, show me and accept my apology.

Have a great day, I’m done.

vinnier6

iTrader: (1)

i would consider the type s a performance sedan...maybe not high performance, but its somewhat sporty....

S PAW 1

I would absolutely agree. A good blend of performance and luxury. Mods usually make it more sporty, as many of us do.

High Performance being low on comfort, with emphasis on the performance aspect.

Grand Touring with emphasis on comfortable ride, and little emphasis on performance/handling.

smarty666

Exactly! That is why I think a Grand Touring tire is more than adequate for the Base TL where as for the Type-S I think a ultra high performance all season is more appropriate!

S PAW 1

In many ways I agree with you.
The factory does not differentiate.
I do not feel that I am smarter than the factory, therefore I use their baseline.
Whatever works for you makes you happy, that's great.
That's just me. If the factory recommends a certain weight of oil, I go with it. Others do not.
My baseline is not a risk taker.
Just my 2 cents worth, nothing more.