jime

I have 40K on my 04 TL, new tires, and am planning to have the car alignment redone. I looked at TSB 05-050 and it changes the spec for toe in to 0 +/- 2mm. I looked at my last alignment and it had the range as 0 to .04 degrees in the front and 0 to 0.8 degrees in the back.

Any idea of why the new spec did not give the toe-in in degrees rather than mm, and what the conversion would be? I don't plan to take my car to the Acura dealer for the alignment, but I have had problems with tire wear in the rear.

Thanks in advance.

Ron A

The alignment specs are in the owner's manual on page 257.

It shows the rear toe-in is 0.08", not degrees, so you may be misreading the specs on your last alignment or they put the wrong words in there. Toe-in is usually in inches or millimeters, and camber and caster are in degrees.

jime

Ron,

Thanks for the info about the toe-in being in millimeters. The “degree toe-in” alignment printout came from my Acura dealer when I complained that my rear tires were bald after the original 7,000 miles. My car was one of the early 6MTs produced. I ordered it in Nov of 2003 and took custody on Dec. 10, 2003.

The problem with the excessive rear tire wear makes me think that the TSB on tire wear should take precedence over the manual. I plan to tell the person who aligns my vehicle to attempt to meet the 0 +/- 2 mm specified in the TSB.

94eg!

Sorry for bumping an old thread, but I do have something to add.

Alignment machines usually give printouts in degrees and not mm. An alignment in mm is dependant on rim diamter. When measuring in mm, they take distance of the trailing edge of the rim and subtract it from the leading edge. That means an 18" rim will be closeer to 0.00 than a 17" rim if they are both at 1mm toe-in. When your alignment is read in degrees, it take rim diameter out of the equation.

To answer the original question: 0.00 +/- 2mm means you can have up to 1mm toe-in or toe-out on one side. This gives you +/- .125* toe-in or toe-out on each wheel. This is for a 17" rim (typically has an 18" diameter lip).

DMZ

If I remember correctly, TSB 05-050 pertaining to excessive rear tire wear involves replacement of the rear bump stops. I went through 2 sets of year tyiz in less than a year before I had that done. OK since.
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94eg!

That's right. It also changed the rear alignment spec from +2mm +/- 2mm to 0mm +/- 2mm. Front remained 0mm +/- 2mm. But I seriously doubt you would want to have any toe-out in the rear of your car.

DMZ

No, but I have an issue with the rear camber. It's supposed to be within +1.5 to -1.5. My RR is at -1.6. Is that far enough out of spec to warrant installing a camber adjustment kit?
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94eg!

I would say no. But I would be more concerned about bent suspension arms.

- Are you lowered?
- Do you have any suspension mods?

If yes, then that much camber may be normal.

Personally I would not worry about camber if my toe was straight. I have a Civic hatchback that calls for 0f, 0r camber. That car is lowered over 2.5" so the front camber is -2.5*f and -1.5r (no camber kits). I run Falken RT615 Max Performance summer tires (soft) and they are still living long & happy lives. I just rotate them regularly and try to take lots of hard turns to keep the wear even. Of course if your toe gets out of spec, any amount of camber will cause quick inner edge wear, so a good toe alignment is always necessary.

Just this past week I learned how to do 4-wheel "toe" alignments at home. I've already done the Civic, and next I have to do my wife's Pilot for a road trip. I think I may do a write-up for everyone when I get to the TL. You only need to buy like $40 in stuff to make an easy DIY (steering wheel holder, .2mm fishing line, ruler with millimeters, small level, 2 jackstands, plastic bags).

DeathMetal

iTrader: (2)

The only reason I chimed in to this thread was because I knew you'd be posting something awesomley technical.

If you do get around to it, I for one would be very grateful for the DIY.

DMZ

Nothing's bent, car is NOT lowered, and the only mod is the Comptech (CT) Engineering sway bar which only added 2mm to the original.
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94eg!

You should be good. The alignment shop could probably get that within spec by simply loosing the bolts on some of the links and simply pulling the top of the tire . There may (or may not) be enough play in the bolts to change the camber angle by the .1* you need. Most alignment shops don't do that because they can say "your camber is not adjustable".

You can also loosen the subframe (#1 front & #12 rear) and give it a shove in order to even out camber left to right. This a known fact that it's possible, but a little time consuming to execute so shops don't do it. This is most likely your issue. It's also true that most subframes have too much play between the bolts and the bolt holes. Spoon makes special metal collars for some cars that squish into place and fill the gaps to make the subframe way more solid. Probably not available for the 3G:



Spoon Rigid collar kit (with informative movie):

http://www.jhpusa.com/store/pc/viewP...idproduct=8179

DMZ

Thanks, but with what they'd probably charge for labor to do that, I'd be better off $$$ wise by installing the camber kit.

I'm gonna leave things as is for now unless that -1.6 gets worse.
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