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Yes, I understand that the "S" is supposed to have firm suspensions. I have no idea if the ride is supposed to as harsh as I'm experiencing it (cuz I don't know how it was when new). It's like riding a wooden rollercoaster, I could feel every little piece of uneven road surface. The tires are Nitto Motivo 235/45ZR17 97W, and they have about 1/8 left. So I'll be soon in the market for a set of new tires. My questions are:
1) Are my existing tires the reason for the harshness?
2) Should I also be looking into possible suspension issues? If so, which parts in particular?
3) If I were to buy new tires today, what would you recommend to improve the ride comfort -- so it would have some semblance of a luxury vehicle? Again, I understand the nature of the "S" designation, but I'm not going to do rally driving any time soon, so I'd be open to trade-off some handling for more comfort. I feel like my spine gets compressed every time I drive around town. Should I be looking into softer (or slower rated) tires? What brand/model?
Of the various levels of suspension tuning offered with the 3G TL, only the A-Spec models had a stiffer suspension; sorry, that's just the nature of the beast.
Changing your tires to a tire with a "softer" side wall such as the Continental ExtremeContact DWS 06 will, in theory at least, reduce the harshness, but I'm betting the difference will barely be noticeable.
Thinking as I type, I suppose it is possible to swap the springs, shocks/struts, and swaybars with a base model automatic TL; such a move will not be inexpensive, but it will soften the ride significantly.
the worn tires could DEF. add harshness and noise.
since you are getting new tires soon, see if that helps before moving on to the suspension. there will be a night and day difference between worn tires and new ones, doesnt even matter the brand at this point.. worn vs new, the new tires will help a TON!
what part of the country do you live in? ie; do you need something for the winter? or are you like me and in a climate that is summer, year round?
if you dont need winters; i would suggest an all around tire like the continental DW tires. (Dry/wet)
or you could step up to the DWS (Dry, wet, snow) if you needed it
Last edited by justnspace; 11-28-2017 at 12:54 PM.
Type S is def harsh.
Did you check your tire pressure?
When I first picked up my TL tire pressure was 40+ and it did feel like a "wooden rollercoaster"
got them down to 32 and felt like a decent ride.
Of the various levels of suspension tuning offered with the 3G TL, only the A-Spec models had a stiffer suspension; sorry, that's just the nature of the beast.
Changing your tires to a tire with a "softer" side wall such as the Continental ExtremeContact DWS 06 will, in theory at least, reduce the harshness, but I'm betting the difference will barely be noticeable.
Thinking as I type, I suppose it is possible to swap the springs, shocks/struts, and swaybars with a base model automatic TL; such a move will not be inexpensive, but it will soften the ride significantly.
Thanks for the perspective. Yeah, I'm aware of the car's inherent stiff suspension. I wish they at least had done something to deaden the vibration in the cabin due to the road harshness. Being an older car, every little trim pieces plastic or otherwise inside is vibrating and rattling when the car's moving above 20 miles an hour. It feel like as if the car had no suspension whatsoever. It's stock, as far as I can tell, the previous owner didn't lower it or anything.
I'm not looking to swap out the suspension with a base model TL. That's going a little too far, I guess. I'll live with it as it is, just hoping for small adjustments that can be done to make the ride a little better. New tires, for sure. Honestly, I was kinda hoping that someone would point to something and say that's broken and that's why your ride is so crappy. But I guess no such luck...
the worn tires could DEF. add harshness and noise.
since you are getting new tires soon, see if that helps before moving on to the suspension. there will be a night and day difference between worn tires and new ones, doesnt even matter the brand at this point.. worn vs new, the new tires will help a TON!
what part of the country do you live in? ie; do you need something for the winter? or are you like me and in a climate that is summer, year round?
if you dont need winters; i would suggest an all around tire like the continental DW tires. (Dry/wet)
or you could step up to the DWS (Dry, wet, snow) if you needed it
OK definitely getting new tires (soon). I live in the SF Bay Area, with zero snow and winters in the 40s at worst. I'll look into Continental DW's. Thanks!
Tyres definitely affect ride harshness to a pretty large degree.
So do alignments.
Worn suspension components.
Worn shocks.
Etc.
How many miles on the car?
The car's got pretty low miles (<50k). I'll make sure to take care of alignment when I get me tires changed. How do I check for worn shocks? (noob here)
Type S is def harsh.
Did you check your tire pressure?
When I first picked up my TL tire pressure was 40+ and it did feel like a "wooden rollercoaster"
got them down to 32 and felt like a decent ride.
Yep, the pressures are strictly at 34/32 front/back. The previous owner had them lowered to 30's, too.
OK definitely getting new tires (soon). I live in the SF Bay Area, with zero snow and winters in the 40s at worst. I'll look into Continental DW's. Thanks!
Didnt even notice this was a UHP (ultra high performance) tire...I would try somethign else, as sporty tires will give you a harsher ride due to the sidewall stiffness.
Nix the Continental DW idea.
The car's got pretty low miles (<50k). I'll make sure to take care of alignment when I get me tires changed. How do I check for worn shocks? (noob here)
At 50K, nothing is likely to be worn.
Try a more forgiving tyre. Contiental DWS, or similar should maintain the car's "sporty" character while offering more comfort.
Checking tyre pressure is another good idea.
If your toe alignment is off, you're hitting bumps sideways. Which adds harshness. I suggest buying a lifetime alignment from Firestone or similar.
You can opt to replace the shocks with something that has a better damping profile. Honda/Acura shocks of the time period of your car weren't tuned very well. Too much compression side damping is what it feels like.
Koni STRT, yellow, or FSD should improve the ride. Especially the FSD. Any of them will also control body motion better than OEM. So...kind of a win/win.
Didnt even notice this was a UHP (ultra high performance) tire...I would try somethign else, as sporty tires will give you a harsher ride due to the sidewall stiffness.
Nix the Continental DW idea.
or at least; i'm giving you options to research
if you know of a good one for this car (in terms of ride comfort), please let me know. I don't skimp on tires, just want to get the right ones.
Try a more forgiving tyre. Contiental DWS, or similar should maintain the car's "sporty" character while offering more comfort.
Checking tyre pressure is another good idea.
If your toe alignment is off, you're hitting bumps sideways. Which adds harshness. I suggest buying a lifetime alignment from Firestone or similar.
You can opt to replace the shocks with something that has a better damping profile. Honda/Acura shocks of the time period of your car weren't tuned very well. Too much compression side damping is what it feels like.
Koni STRT, yellow, or FSD should improve the ride. Especially the FSD. Any of them will also control body motion better than OEM. So...kind of a win/win.
Interesting. And in the ballpark, how much is that going to set me back (replacing the shocks with say FSD like you mentioned)?
I'll be sure to do alignment with my next set of tires on. Thanks!
Thanks for the perspective. Yeah, I'm aware of the car's inherent stiff suspension. I wish they at least had done something to deaden the vibration in the cabin due to the road harshness. Being an older car, every little trim pieces plastic or otherwise inside is vibrating and rattling when the car's moving above 20 miles an hour. It feel like as if the car had no suspension whatsoever. It's stock, as far as I can tell, the previous owner didn't lower it or anything.
I'm not looking to swap out the suspension with a base model TL. That's going a little too far, I guess. I'll live with it as it is, just hoping for small adjustments that can be done to make the ride a little better. New tires, for sure. Honestly, I was kinda hoping that someone would point to something and say that's broken and that's why your ride is so crappy. But I guess no such luck...
Hmmm, something doesn't sound right here; I have a 2006 TL with the 6MT which has a very similar suspension to the one in your Type-S (the front is a bit softer in mine); my car has nearly 130,000 miles on it now and is quiet as a tomb when driving down a bumpy road, no rattles, squeaks, or resonance.
Interesting. And in the ballpark, how much is that going to set me back (replacing the shocks with say FSD like you mentioned)?
I'll be sure to do alignment with my next set of tires on. Thanks!
FSD's for most Hondas are like $600.
Now the question: Do they make a FSD for the 3G TL? lol
Hmmm, something doesn't sound right here; I have a 2006 TL with the 6MT which has a very similar suspension to the one in your Type-S (the front is a bit softer in mine); my car has nearly 130,000 miles on it now and is quiet as a tomb when driving down a bumpy road, no rattles, squeaks, or resonance.
Even without the rattles and squeaks, I have a feeling that they couldn't have sold the car if the ride was always like this brand new. I mean, I'm sure Type-S buyers would be expecting those firm suspensions right off the bat, but they would also be expecting some level of refinement, too, right? Again, I don't know how it was new. I wish I had test driven more similar vehicles before buying it. There weren't a lot of choices at the time.
I found that the Hondas that were "revamped" in ~2000 came with dampers that were a bit harsh.
From first hand experience, 7G Accords, Honda Fits, EP3's, RSX's, S2000's, Civics, TL's, and TSX's all rode pretty harshly in comparison with other-brand parallel cars on the market.
In fact, installing and properly setting up Tein SA coilovers on my own 1G TSX, 2G TSX Sport Wagon, and my friend's 3G TL-S resulted in IMPROVED ride over stock. Tein even advertises that the SA "reduces the tapping feel of the stock suspension".
FWIW, the aggressively sprung Ohlins coilovers on my S2000 ride better than stock too. Like some sort of magic carpet, as a matter of fact. And Koni yellows yielded added comfort over my stock ITR shocks (paired with stock ITR springs).
Its been noted by many people that the suspensions on Hondas of the ~2000-2011 era seem unnecessarily harsh.
That type of damper profile gives the "feel" of liveliness and quick response....so maybe that's what Honda was searching after. But on cracked roads, it feels like there's too much/too linear compression damping.
European cars/dampers usually have a different ride philosophy. That's why I suggested Koni shocks. Some Konis (STRT/Yellow/FSD) REDUCE the high speed compression force as compared to a stock, era specific Honda shock. You give up some of that sharp response and hyperactive feel. But a lot of times, the ride and handling balance can be improved
If you are favoring comfort over performance, you should probably be looking at Grand Touring (GT) class tires instead of Ultra High Performance (UHP) tires. Many will cringe at this recommendation, but consider the Michelin Primacy MXM4. They are expensive but give a nice ride, good MPG, and last a long time. This is what I am running on mine and have been quite happy with them over the past 60k miles. The Michelin Premier A/S is probably a newer version of the MXM4 with similar qualities. Based on other discussions on the forums and already recommended, the Continental ExtremeContact DWS 06 is also "suggested" to give a fairly nice ride as well along with other positive attributes.
Also to note...just like horeseshoez stated...my '05 MT with 170k miles has for the most part no squeaks or rattles. The only noise is makes at speed right now is the light hum/whine of the winter tires I have on it.
If you are favoring comfort over performance, you should probably be looking at Grand Touring (GT) class tires instead of Ultra High Performance (UHP) tires. Many will cringe at this recommendation, but consider the Michelin Primacy MXM4. They are expensive but give a nice ride, good MPG, and last a long time. This is what I am running on mine and have been quite happy with them over the past 60k miles. The Michelin Premier A/S is probably a newer version of the MXM4 with similar qualities. Based on other discussions on the forums and already recommended, the Continental ExtremeContact DWS 06 is also "suggested" to give a fairly nice ride as well along with other positive attributes.
Also to note...just like horeseshoez stated...my '05 MT with 170k miles has for the most part no squeaks or rattles. The only noise is makes at speed right now is the light hum/whine of the winter tires I have on it.
I was looking at the MXM4. Weren't those also the tires that came with the new cars from the factory?
The squeaks and rattles are a whole another topic. I've got some from the center speaker jumping around, the door panels rubbing against something, etc... but they all are excited by the constant vibration coming from the road surface. That's part of the reason why I've been looking into reducing the harshness of the ride.
I don't know if the Pilot MXM4 or Primacy MXM4 was one of the OE tire options. I just know it has been a solid tire for me for the past five years and roughly 60k miles. Now to be honest....they aren't going to be my replacement tires this Spring when it comes time to replace them. I will be giving the following consideration:
- Michelin Premier A/S - still pricey...but man, I was so pleased with my MXM4 and have high hopes for these
- Continental ExtremeContact DWS 06 - they are just so highly reviewed on here and sooooo much cheaper
- Pirelli P Zero AS+ - Great ratings other than winter...and price is great
- General G-MAX AS-05 - Great price point, just too new to have good info on how well these age, early reviews are positive
On my compiled data from tire rack, the P Zero AS+ is the only tire that has higher ratings than the DWS 06....keep in mind this selection is limited to what I wanted.
I was looking at the MXM4. Weren't those also the tires that came with the new cars from the factory?
The squeaks and rattles are a whole another topic. I've got some from the center speaker jumping around, the door panels rubbing against something, etc... but they all are excited by the constant vibration coming from the road surface. That's part of the reason why I've been looking into reducing the harshness of the ride.
Have you had the suspension given a good once-over? I find myself wondering if spring blocks might have been installed in your coils which will artificially stiffen the ride.
I'd have the suspension looked at. My Type-S on long drives smooth as a button, bumps for city driving feel like a dump trunk. That ain' no tire issue. Lol
a worn out tire; 1/8ths will have the shittiest ride ever.
Going to a brand spankin new tire with fresh rubber will make a difference. He needs to replace the rubbers, ANYWAY...it's a good starting point.
then; if it's still not the way he wants it...he can then refresh the suspension...but at so little miles...it's most likely not that.
I don't know if the Pilot MXM4 or Primacy MXM4 was one of the OE tire options. I just know it has been a solid tire for me for the past five years and roughly 60k miles. Now to be honest....they aren't going to be my replacement tires this Spring when it comes time to replace them. I will be giving the following consideration:
- Michelin Premier A/S - still pricey...but man, I was so pleased with my MXM4 and have high hopes for these
- Continental ExtremeContact DWS 06 - they are just so highly reviewed on here and sooooo much cheaper
- Pirelli P Zero AS+ - Great ratings other than winter...and price is great
- General G-MAX AS-05 - Great price point, just too new to have good info on how well these age, early reviews are positive
On my compiled data from tire rack, the P Zero AS+ is the only tire that has higher ratings than the DWS 06....keep in mind this selection is limited to what I wanted.
Type S ride is harsh? wonder why I bought the base TL and RL addition to my A car collection? TL-S really give harsh ride especially on crappy road surface, as Justin can tell you how bad Htown road is BUT on the flip side that harness is what give the TL-S ability to hug corner and barely show any sign of the car being FWD.
A (rather late) update on this... Today I've finally got the my tires replaced with the new Pirelli P Zero AS+. The ride showed a marked improvement! Yeah, the suspensions are still stiff as ever, that is to be expected, but the road harshness is largely gone or at least well muffled. Compared to before with the worn Potenza, now it feel like having an extra cushion under my butt . At least the base of my skull is not getting the buzz after a short commute.
My thanks to @Jackass for the tabulated data on the tires. I hope you've got some nice tires for yourself.
A (rather late) update on this... Today I've finally got the my tires replaced with the new Pirelli P Zero AS+. The ride showed a marked improvement! Yeah, the suspensions are still stiff as ever, that is to be expected, but the road harshness is largely gone or at least well muffled. Compared to before with the worn Potenza, now it feel like having an extra cushion under my butt . At least the base of my skull is not getting the buzz after a short commute.
My thanks to @Jackass for the tabulated data on the tires. I hope you've got some nice tires for yourself.
Little late, but the PZero A/S is an extra load rated tire (97), so if one wanted a soft ride you'd want to stick with a lower load rating, aim at the OEM 93.
Glad to see the tires are getting the car to feel more how you want it to feel.
I haven't seen a mention of replacing the front and rear stab bars from the TL-S bars to base bars. This change would help improve ride quality over crummy uneven roads.
TL-S Frt: 27.2mm solid
TL Base Frt: 27.2mm Hollow
TL-S Rear: 20mm
TL Base Rr: 17mm
Your statement about uneven road surfaces and wooden roller coaster, leads me to believe that it's the stab bars.
If you want to test it out disconnect the stab bar and see how it rides, don't drive in a spirited manner because the car will handle differently. It's a cheap way to test and see if it gets you the ride your looking for.
From my experience ride quality issues are usually a symptom of:
Poor quality aftermarket lower ball joints, torn lower control arm compliance bushings, worn inner tie rods, occasionally worn upper control arm ball joints, and definitely lower quality worn tires. I recommend Michelin or Bridgestone W rated tires.
I recommend Michelin or Bridgestone W rated tires.
Hmmm, while Michelin and Bridgestone are considered premier brands, so too are Continental and Pirelli, in fact, I would put both of them well above Bridgestone and roughly on par with Michelin.
11-28-2017, 12:39 PM
But I guess no such luck...
. At least the base of my skull is not getting the buzz after a short commute.
