Hey all! I was just wondering if someone could shed some light on this subject. About 2-3 weeks ago I put on new rotors and ceramic pads on the front. And I do expect some brake dust, but nothing like this, especially after changing out the rotors and pads! What's going on here? I had this same problem before I changed the rotors and pads on the same side (passenger side) can anyone shed some light on why this is still happening? The black stuff is actually getting to my back wheel too. It's even getting on the car itself! Pic 1 is the driver side, pic 2 is the passenger side.



Btw, I did not cause the damage done to the rims. It was the previous owner. I only had this car about 6 weeks.

 

I usually don't reply to 90% of threads started in the 3rd Gen section since most questions asked are beaten to death. In your case this is a bit off the norm.

Starters, I've been a certifed technician for 10 years and worked for two Acura dealerships, I will provide the best information possible.

It's not uncommon, especially in the manual TL's or Type-S TL's with brembo brakes to encounter a ton of brake dust. There's been numbers discussions about this. Since you're Automatic with standard brakes then this is another issue. Going based on pictures and what you said I will point out one thing. Your drivers brake caliper bracket is dark, while the entire brake assembly on the passenger side is silver. Did you happen to paint the calipers and only one bracket?

If not, then I would suspect that someone replaced the calipers. Perhaps the entire caliper and bracket on the passenger side and only the caliper on the drivers side. Why would they replace them? Usually because the vehicle has a sticking caliper. It's also not uncommon for NEW calipers that are aftermarket like autozone, pepboys, advance auto ect calipers to fail within a few miles-thousand miles to less than a year. It's clear that only caliper sticking or dragging with cause a significant amount of brake dust verse a caliper that's not sticking.

Could this be your issue? Maybe, there are symptoms of sticking calipers. When you did the brakes, the number 1 obvious sign would be brake pads nearly done on a bad side and brake pads on the other side having much more "Meat" on them. Caliper besides, the slides on the caliper brackets could also be frozen. This will cause an issue as well. This would have been clearly an issue when removing the caliper. A non frozen caliper with some moderate force can push the piston back a bit and leave some play in the caliper attached to the bracket. On a brake caliper which has frozen slides you won't be able to compress the piston without some serious force.

Lastly, it may just be as simple as, the brakes were done once before and the material on the pads that were used would generally cause more brake dust than the oem material. Aftermarket pads are not made the same as OEM pads. Yes, you can get much better pads like semi-metallic pads which will stop better, maybe cause some noise and will create MORE dust. Ceramic will have a less braking grip, but will be quieter, wear faster and create LESS dust.

You can apply carnuba wax, same as you put on the paint, on the rims because yes- rims have clear coat- so it's safe. Apply wax, would help control some brake dust, and make it easier to clean. Keep in mind, high way driving verse stop and go will make a huge difference in the amount of brake dust generated. You can go from 70 MPH to 20 MPH in a quick stop and see black brake dust dots on the rims. Perhaps if there's not an issue with the material or braking system, just wipe them down every so often and apply wax to the rims after a good wash, or just don't drive the car. Best of luck!

 

thats perfectly normal if you had brembos. I get that amount of brake dust within 3 days. but seeing as you have the standard calipers, its probably an issue with a sticking caliper since its only on one side

 

Thank you for the responses! Here's a little story on this car. Who ever had this before me obviously neglected a lot of things and didn't take care of it very well. So since I'm tired of mechanics ripping me off, I decided to do everything myself. As I stated, I haven't even had this car 2 months yet (April 23 to be exact). Anyhow, what I've done so far was change the oil, replaced the serpentine belt, drain and refill transmission fluid, pads and rotors on the front, new wipers. I planned on flushing the power steering and brake fluids, as well as the coolant. Using Genuine Honda fluids throughout. Except Motor oil.
This car needed some tlc and I'm doing what I can do accomish that.
Anyhow, when I changed out the right side, the rotor was shot and the pads were severely worn. Not the case with the driver side.
I did notice the right caliper was a little stiffer to compress the piston, but not too bad.
After the brake job, I use my Eagle 1 aluminum wheel cleaner and cleaned all rims.
But now that I'm thinking of off the things that I'm experiencing (lower fuel economy, and slows down way too fast when I take my foot of the gas).
Oh, to explain the caliper bracket color difference, no I did not paint them. Someone had done that before. But the driver side bracket is different because when I went to remove the bracket, I stripped the knuckle bolt hole on one of them. Usually the rule is "lefty Lucy, righty tighty". Well, not for those. I out so much torque on one of them (going left) it broke the threads. So I had to get a quick fix and went to a salvage yard to get a bracket. So I guess it looks like I'll be replacing the caliper?
Btw, what kind of wax would you recommend for the wheels? I don't usually wax my cars, to me it's a waste of time due to the area I'm in lol.
Thanks for the input and please feel free to ask me any other questions. I'm hoping to get this car in prime shape!

 

I fully detail my car and my fiances car every weekend, yes every weekend. Even though my TL is 10 years old it looks pretty much new. Wax is almost a must on the paint to protect it over the years. Most waxes claim to last a long period of time, don't be fooled.. Car washes use some strong cleaners which strips off any wax. I would highly suggest something over the counter unless you want some higher end waxes and cleaners then order them from http://www.autopia-carcare.com/ or from http://www.detailersdomain.com/. For when I run out of my "good" stuff I use Meguiar's High tech yellow wax or California Gold Pure Brazilian Carnauba Wax from Mothers or Meguiar's Gold class carnauba wax.
Paste or liquid is fine. Waxing the rims will reduce some brake dust but won't get rid of the issue. Buy a bottle of detailer spray, use it to wipe down the rims with a microfiber cloth. Since you said the car was neglected, have someone detail it, at least it the hard work is done. After that, you can do the up keep. When you have some time, read this thread about trying to cut down on brake dust. Almost all suggest waxing the wheels, but only with non abrasive wax (the waxes I mentioned aren't abrasive) here is the thread:
http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-tir...st-wheels.html

 

If I had the time I would detail my car like I used to do with my others over the years. I work a lot of hours and driving 2 hours a day, round trip for work leaves me with very little time. I would pay someone to detail it for me, but I would nit pick their work afterwords lol. Is be better off doing it myself. That is after all the work I plan on doing to it. First, I need to address this issue with a possible bad caliper. I'll have to start price checking. At least this time if I have to remove the bracket, I'll know which way to turn the bolts
I need to find a reputable parts dealer. I refuse to go to the Acura dealership (70 minutes from my house). I took it there to get a recall taken care of. Well they pretty much lied to me on some things.ain thing being I had 3 oil leaks. Well, when I changed the oil, guess what came out? 4.5 quarts exactly. And there was no visible leaks or drippings from anywhere I've parked. There was another user here that had a bad experience with that same dealership. So im definitely not going back to them. They'll probably price gouge me on a caliper.

 

One side dusting and the other side not dusting is a classic symptom of a sticking caliper. It may be as simple as regreasing the slide pins, or you might need to rebuild the piston seals and sand off any rust in the piston cylinder if the brake fluid hasn't been changed in forever.

 

Well I skated out of work early so I could get home and see if I can find the issue. Turns out, there is a big tear in the piston boot. On the way home tho, I could feel something slowing my car down drastically. Especially after braking at a light... It was also pulling slightly to the right. I guess we can confirm it's the caliper lol. So I went ahead and ordered a different caliper. I should have it by Friday. I didn't order a brand new one because $'s a little tight ATM. And also, when I got the driver side bracket, it came with a caliper too. That piston was pretty smooth as far as pushing it.
But here's a question, will I have to get new pads again?? I think by the end of the week, I'll have put about 1500 miles on these pads. Not the highest quality available, but it was the best autozone had at the time. I got the Duralast Gold Cmaxx pads. I really hope I don't have to get new pads.
So I came up with an idea... Since I don't want mix matched calipers/brackets, I'm deciding to switch out the driver side one too. My thought is to paint the "new" calipers/brackets. Since they'll be off the vehicle already, should be easy right? And no, I don't want the plastic Brembo covers lol!

 

No need to change the pads, just hit them with some sand paper to remove any glazing. I would paint them, at least make the calipers look better. Suggest the high temp caliper paint which is painted on by hand not by a rattle can. It comes out cleaner, the paint looks better and with 2 coats they generally last longer than rattle can paint. Make sure you bleed the system well. Let gravity do the most part. Keep the bleeders open and let them fluid drip out on the swapped calipers. get a buddy to help you just bleed it 100%. Pump once and hold, open the bleeder, then close the bleeder. Pump once again and hold, open the bleed, then close the bleeder. Do this a few times. Once you are done with both sides then pump the brake pedal and see if it's "High and Hard" as we use to say.

 

I should've bled the system when I changed the rotors and pads. But did not. I was actually looking into the "one man bleeder kits". Not sure if anyone has had any luck with them. Speaking of that, how much brake fluid should I have on hand? I only have 1 bottle of GH fluid right now (12oz). I'd have to order more if that isn't enough. Is there a specific sequence I should do them in? I was plan on doing the rear calipers as well (painting). I just may wait until I get new rotors and pads for the rear first. Would probably be the smart thing to do lol. Oh, another question, will the car pull to the right side if the pads are severely worn out? Even after sanding it? I would hope after 1500 miles, they won't be worn too bad.
Any specific kind to get to paint with? I did a little research and many seem to like the duplicolor kits. But then again, many don't. Some say to sand the calipers, some say just clean real good. Just like some say to use rattle can some don't. I guess I have until Saturday to make up my mind on color and kind of paint to use. Either going to be white, silver or red. Although silver would match the rear.. I'm it to keen on the color for calipers. Looks somewhat cheap. Wanting white to match the car. Idk, decisions, decisions.

 

Nothing wrong with using a vacuum set up. When I started in the industry I used a hand pump brake bleeding kit. It was in my opinion better than the machines that Acura uses. You can do it quicker and control the amount of suction. You could go into a harbor freight and buy one since they are cheap there and it's only going to be used a few times.

Here is one that runs off compressed air:
http://www.griotsgarage.com/product/...FZRQOgod5m4ACw

Another one by hand:
http://www.harborfreight.com/brake-b...kit-69328.html

Buy a Dot 3 or 4 brake fluid one bottle is enough for the fronts and even all 4 depending how dirty the system is.

-----------------------------------
Use the spray the kit comes with, I wouldn't sand it to be honest with you. Just apply 2-3 coats and the brakes will look amazing!

1. Dupicolor brake caliper paint kit: http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/bu...Q&gclsrc=aw.ds

2. G2 brake caliper paint system: http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/acces...48&CAGPSPN=pla

Lastly, you can paint the brakes regardless of doing them now or later. I would paint them now since the fronts will look great and the rears will look terrible. Keep it all the same, is the best way to go. Next time you are due for brakes contact Excelerate performance, a huge vendor here from CT, he has brake packages which are high performance rotors and pads which stop 100% better than stock and also look incredible. I will never go back to blank rotors again, only slotted/cross drilled or either one. That's just me, nothing you got was wrong.

LINK to Acurazine package
http://hoa.excelerateperformance.com...s/g-73363.aspx

Just an idea this is a package 4x rotors with pads slotted and cross drilled performance rotors for a BASE TL (Non brembos brakes)
http://hoa.excelerateperformance.com...i-1805403.aspx

The slotted rotors are cheaper.

 

Just an FYI-The “Lefty Loosy Righty Tighty” is still correct for the brackets, but the reference is as if you’re looking at the head of the bolt, but if on the opposite side the tool will need to be moved in the oppsite direction.

Bleed sequence LF-RF-RR-LR

Now use a power bleeder, but many years ago used a rubber hose that went into a container filled with used brake fluid and was able to bleed the brakes without any assistance, cheap and easy, or you can purchase an inexpensive one main bleeder from AZ @ $9.00.

 

Thanks a bunch for all your info and links. I think I'll use the duplicolor kit. I'm just worried that 8oz of paint won't be enough to do multiple coats on all 4 calipers. I think I want to do white. Although it may need more coats, but seems like everyone is doing red. I never seen white calipers before. If I can't find white, then might as well do red. So do I need to clean the insides too? Like in the piston hole (without hitting the boot)? I picked up the caliper (a spare driver side one) and it needs a hell of a cleaning! Since my "new" caliper will be here by Friday, I'll get started on the prep work. Do I need to get a wire brush too? I'm thinking that will put deep scratches in them, idk. I know what brake cleaner can do, I used almost a whole can on the transmission pan for my wife's Buick on Saturday. (Filter change)

 

I see what you're saying for the bolts. I really did not think of the way the bolts were facing lol. I could've saved some time and money!
Thanks for the correct sequencing.
I do plan on getting a one man bleeder kit. More than likely I'll be doing this myself. Don't have an air compressor, otherwise I would get that one from Griot garage. Since I'm going to autozone tonight after work, I'll see what they have, incase harbor freight doesn't have one.

 

Was going to say stuck piston.. get it resolved OP.

 

Yeah, as stated in my 4th post of this thread, I ordered a new caliper and it would be here by Friday.

 

Probably brake caliper, but for future reference, a caliper piston that doesn't retract can also be caused by a faulty brake hose that has an internal break that won't allow the fluid to return to the master cylinder.
A check can be made when pushing the piston into the caliper bore. If the piston has resistance/hard to move, undo the bleeder and try again. If it moves easily, then the line is the problem.

 

Ahh ok. I hope the caliper change will help. Guess we'll see this weekend. Thanks for the insight.

 

I think the problem and the fixes have been covered. I agree with bleeding the system, and replacing the caliper and rotor after the temperatures they have had to endure. You may check the wheel bearings, no telling how much heat was transferred with a stuck caliper.

I just wanted to point out that brake dust is not an auto vs manual thing once the brake pads have been changed from OEM. Dust is mostly the pad material itself with some of it being rotor material as well. Once you put a different pad on there, it may dust more or less than factory. The Brembos happened to come from the factory with pads that dusted more. My 13" front brakes have very, very little dust, it's not a size thing.

About the pad material, you can't just say that ceramics wear out faster/slower and dust more/less or hold up to heat better/worse. Ceramics are usually a mix of materials as are semi-metallics. I've had ceramics that lasted under 10,000 miles and I've had the factory ceramics last over 90,000. One set had virtually no dust and the other set had horrible dust, worse than the factory Brembos. Ceramics are usually easier on the rotors than metallics but not always. When you get into the very high performance side, you won't see many ceramic pads out there. On the extreme end, they don't handle the heat as well as metallic pads. As I've said before, I'm going with sintered pads next time, they're the best of all worlds with the exception of a price tag that's 2-4x more than regular performance pads.

 

I'm not 100% sure on how long ceramic pads will last. Heck, I have a 1994 Chrysler LHS that has almost 187k miles on it. I haven't changed the pads/rotors on that since I had it. I got it with (120k miles on it). I know it needs brakes for the back, but the front held up pretty well and still good. The dust is there, but nothing like I'm seeing on my TL. As I said before, I really hope I don't have to change the pads again. I will start waxing my wheels to help minimize the dust. Quick question tho, is there a way to test a caliper that's not on a vehicle? I know how to make the piston go in, but I mean getting the piston back out? The caliper arrived 2 days sooner than expected. It's sitting on my doorstep right now waiting for me to get out of work. I really want to test it before I start to paint it and put it on my car. Really hope there is a way. Since it arrived early, I'd like to get some prep work done on it before Sunday. That's the only day I have off and need to do the job then.

 

Out really isn't a problem as your foot pushes them out and it's rare that they get so stuck that the hydraulic pressure can't overcome the piston. I'm sure you want to make sure it's free and all but I don't know of a good way to force it back out with it off the car. Good question though.

One thing to think of, these cars are getting older and many people have neglected the brakes. Brake fluid is supposed to absorb water but you still get water that "puddles" in the low spots in the system which is usually the calpers and you end up with corrosion which causes them to stick. That's why it's important that you flush the whole system. It may not be a bad idea to go ahead and bleed the lines with the old caliper, then install the new one and bleed just enough to get the air out again.

Have you checked the slider pins? Did one side wear quicker than the other such as the piston side vs wheel side pads? If this doesn't fix it and it's not the slider pins, it's time to look at what turbonut said about the hoses.

Almost forgot, what I meant about the different pad materials is you can't say how long a pad will last by whether it's ceramic or semi-metallic. Yours might last a long time or they may be gone in 10k miles. Don't worry about the dust though (if you're worrying abou it), yours was from the frozen caliper, not bad pads.

 

When I changed out the rotors/pads, the right side rotor and pads were severely wrecked. The driver side however, was still pretty good. So I'm not sure what the previous owner did, but it seemed to me either they changed 1 side and not the other, or just completely ignored what was going on. Both slider pins were easy to move by hand. Seemed to have had enough grease left in there. You're talking about the ones on the bracket? Of so, yes, those seemed to be fine. Although I didn't want to tear the boots, I did not grease them like I should have. How much fluid is required for a flush? All I have is 1 12oz bottle of GH fluid and can't order anymore and have it here in time. Is it ok to mix brake fluids? If so, AutoZone has some kind that says suitable for Hondas. Don't know about that lol. I'm still new to the whole Acura thing, so I'm trying to learn as much as I can so I can do my own repairs instead of getting ripped off by local mechanics/dealerships.

 

Haven't changed the brakes since you've owned it you say...

 

Lol. I've done that on the GN when I was 17 and too broke to afford pads. I wasn't that deep into the fins but the braking surface was gone in most areas or thin enough to poke a hole with a screwdriver in the areas that still had material. When using the brakes it was so bad that it would make my vision to blurry. I think things like that are why I'm so OCD today and I have spares of spares "just in case".

 

Well all, I'm happy to report that I replaced my right front caliper and I can feel the difference. Doesn't feel like the car is "dragging" and it doesn't reduce speed while going downhill anymore. I'll have to wait a week or so to see the brake dust if any. I did end up painting my calipers too. I'll post some pics when I get home from work tonight. I do have a question tho, is it common for TL's to have "spongy" brakes? For the life if me I just could not get them "high and hard". I know I got Ll the air out, and even went through about 30oz of fluid. No, I did not check the lines to the MC yet. I was at this all day yesterday and got tired of messing with it lol.

 

In case anyone wanted to see the painted calipers, here's a few pics.




And if someone will, please chime in about the spongy brakes. Also, thanks to everyone for their input. It helped!

 

Ok. So I thought the problem would go away with a caliper replacement, but it hasn't. It's still happening. So is it possible that a torn/mangles steering linkage boot can cause this? I discovered that the boot on that side is fubared! I'm going to be replacing it this weekend. And if it's not the boot, how do I check the wheel bearings? Or is there any other reason this is still happening? When I bled the system, it bled fine. So after I replace the boot, idk what else to do. Here's a pic of the boot I was talking about. It's on the right side.

Thanks again!

 

i use the akebono ceramic pads and i dont get barely any dust on my wheels.. usually after a week i start to notice.. shitty pads will do that tho.

 

Faulty wheel bearings make noise. I would replace the boot on the steering rack as long as there's no leak coming from the steering rack seal. This will also require an alignment afterwards due to the outer tie-rod and nut having to come off to slide the boot on. I would now check the brake hoses and make sure they aren't defective. It could also still be that you are using aftermarket pads that create higher levels of brake dust. It's not uncommon for one wheel to have a bit more brake dust than another wheel.