Bang... Sounds like a old pickup truck now.

Spark plug is gone, broke the plastic distributor tube thing, limped into the shop (broke down 45 secs away from shop)...

So, what am I looking at here? What's the best case/worst case senario here...

Luckily, no dented hood or a hole in the radiator. Block is fine, seems to be just the plug missing and broke distributor tube thing...

 

re-tap the aluminum.
install spark plug
install coil pack.

not sure; what else you're looking for.
Did you, however, notice a tapping sound before the spark plug exited?

 

this^

 

center plug on the front bank no doubt! yes you should have been able to hear it before it let go. coil pack may be damaged as well.

 

OP, if that happened, you'd better re-torque all the other plugs. Which one was it? #5? (Center front).

Did recently have the plugs replaced? If so, was anti-seize used?

You're prolly looking at $300-$400 labor and parts for a heli-coil, coil and plug.

 

I noticed a little tapping but it was cold plus i my belt tensioner is make a ticking noise as well so I thought it was that. Yep, front and center #5. I did the plugs 3 years ago but haven't checked them since. I'm at 125K now so probably time to do them again... Might as well get the 105k service done since I'm down a cylinder. Between my house thermostat/hvac, the dryer crapping out, and now this..... I'm spent. Is it Friday?

 

Did you use anti-seize and torque to spec when you replaced them? The SM calls for anti-seize and 13 ft-lbs. It's important to use anti-seize if you are using Service Manual torque specs.

If you don't use anti-seize and only torque to SM specs of 13 ft-lbs, you may be asking for trouble. The NKG recommended torque spec for this plug going into an aluminum head is 18-21.6 ft-lbs with no anti-seize....

 

What mileage did you change the plugs at? Also if you haven't done the 105K service, you really should. A timing belt snapping is a lot worse than a plug coming out.

 

Sorry to hear this. This is one of the reasons I change my plugs every 50-60k or so (regular plugs, not platinum).

I wonder if the #5 plug was not torqued properly from the factory or if its more prone to detonation due to air and/or fuel distribution.

 

Is it really 13ft-lbs? Is that even a quarter turn? That's no more than hand tight...

I'm pretty sure I didn't use anti-seize and I probably changed the plugs about 60k-70k with a quarter turn or so. I've never had a plug blow out before but with 13ft-lbs, I don't see how they would stay in.

 

Yep, it's 13 ft-lbs if using anti-seize, which is per SM procedure. Since you didn't use anti-seize, I'd highly recommend going over the other plugs and torquing them to 18 - 21 ft-lbs.

 

Yep, coil pack (aka plastic distributor tube thingy) is busted and hopefully the plug just came unthreaded and blew out without damaging anything else. Thanks guys.

 

they only back out until the combustion in the cylinder rips out the remaining threads. a helicoil is in your future

 

1500psi will definitely strip the last couple threads when the plug unscrews enough.

 

What's with people throwing plugs lately? This seems to be a recurring problem.

 

Update: I got the car back for just over $200. They threaded a new sleeve, popped in a new NGK plug, and installed a new coil, and out the door...

Time to throw a torque wrench on the remaining plugs.

 

Wow, that's a great price! Back in service, good deal

 

Very good deal. Where did you get it done?

 

I think our cars just totally sucks I mean it's a wimp..... It seems like it needs extra TLC everytime. Sensitive Transmission, weak motor mounts, leaking oil pump seal, issues with power steering pump, defective dash, interior that scratches easily, sparks plug blowing out, lower control arm bushings weak as hell. Not to mention starter going out at an early age

 

uhhhh, most brands/models have their problems, too.
try owning a german car.

 

I cannot agree more on german cars that's the reason why I will not own one. But our cars it's almost like you have to be super OCD in order to keep things right. I am planning on trading or selling mine later this year towards the end of 2013 and or the beginning of 2014

 

^good luck on finding a car that wont need OCD maintenance.

 

^ There are other vehicles out there that does not require too much TLC. I have taken care of my car with good maintenance and especially replacing the pressure switches for the transmission, replacing tranny fluid like every 10k to 20k. I feel that whenever I plan on taking care of one big job for the future something else has to be added to the list which has become very annoying.

 

I think peoples' standards and expectations have changed. It used to be at 100,000 miles the car was all used up and the engine likely needed to be rebuilt. That has improved over the years but the attitude that you should have to do nothing but change the oil and put gas in a 100,000+ car will not work with any car. The TL weighs 3,500+lbs and weight is a huge factor unfortunately. You're not going to get into cars that require zero repairs until you're in the subcompact light weight cars and even then every component had better be solid.

My friends own German cars, one has been through many CL Mercedes from a CL500 to a CL65 AMG to a CL65 Brabus and every one of those cars have required front suspension replacement to the tune of $14,000. The automatic doors and trunk are always going out. The auto trunk never works. The coil packs have gone out a couple times which cost $6k. The sensors in the front suspension have gone out leaving the nose of the car up in the air. the ABC adjustable suspension has crapped out leaving the car bouncing as if it has no shocks over bad pavement.

My other friend's M3 has had two very serious issues, one with the rear strut mount cracking and one with a cam gear coming off, both of which would have been $10k fixes together.

The TL's biggest weak spot is the transmission but with basic care, fluid and pressure switches, they are regularly going well past 100k. The engine is rock solid, not a single weak spot at stock power levels. There just are no big issues with the TL, just minor annoyances but nothing that's a safety concern or would leave you stranded.

I've replaced half of the interior trying to keep it perfect including steering wheel, the strips down the center console, carpet, shifter trim, etc. I've replaced a burned out headlight and pressure switches.

Spark plugs come from owners blindly believing the manufacturer's intervals. I'm not blaming the owners but at some point you have to realize that leaving a set of plugs in an aluminum headed engine for 105,000 miles or 5+ years is probably not a good idea. I've been trying to warn people for years about this and I always throw my .02 in about changing the plugs early even though I'm sure it's annoying by now.

The motor mounts usually do not break unless you're flooring it from a dead stop often and/or you get wheel hop. I almost solved that problem by using tires that I can't spin. In fact, I broke my motor mount the other day because I floored it and hit a bad patch of road and the tires spun and I got a little wheel hop. I was wondering about the mounts and the next time I took off normal I felt the engine torque over and the jerk in my back. My fault. Sure, they shouldn't break from a little wheel hop but the car wasn't really made to survive wheel hop either.

The starter going out early is rare. Keeping a good battery will do wonders for starter life. If you wait until it will barely turn the engine over and let it go for years like this, the starter usually doesn't last as long.

The power steering fix is under a dollar and 5 minutes of your time. Mine got the whine back in '12 which was over 100,000 miles so I really can't complain.

I would take any of these issues in place or internal engine failures, excessive oil consumption, cracked structural members of the car, electrical problems that never totally go away, bushing that get completely melted out of place by the exhaust being too close and the resulting very loud knock inside the car and being able to push the tired in and out by hand, or the incredible sludge problems of the newer DI engines and several "normal" engines notably the older port injected Toyota V6, or the runaway Toyotas which btw was a software glitch, not a floormat problem, I'm so glad my '06 uses a key and an actual ignition switch that I control, not the ECU.

Some of the TL's problems are annoying but they're minor compared to most other cars out there. I try to stay on top of them and fix them right away so I don't get overwhelmed. I was a little pissed when I burned through a new set of front tires in 12,000 miles because the alignment was off due to the compliance bushings but it's still minor compared to most. This weekend is 02 sensors even though there's no code, they tend to get lazy at this age and mpg and power are falling off which tends to happen long before a light pops up.

This is another reason I paid it off as quickly as possible, because I knew as it got older it would need more and more attention and that's fine as long as I'm not making that $701 new car payment along with repairs.

 

^agreed.

sounds MB1976 is looking for a small economy car in the near future.

 

Actually, I am planning on getting a 2013 or 2014 Tacoma SR5 Crew Cab truck. Then again I did buy my TL certified used with 49k on it in 2009. So far no issues with transmission, or spark plugs blowing knock on wood. I am sitting at 108k already had done t belt service and spark plugs at 101

 

The spark plug coming loose has nothing to do with properly torquing the plug. There are two issues that Are known with these j series. The bad valve cover grommet, and the engines firing order causing a some what resonance/vibration which at a certain frequency is enough to back out cylinders 2 and 5. The resonance factory is new news to be, I've only heard it from a Honda training facility, not sure why or if there's a fix. Just listen out for it, or check your spark plugs every 30-60k like Honda used to
Have you do.

 

Would love to see any proof you have that this is true....

 

Local mechanic down the road... Funny thing was I broke down almost right in front of his shop. Pulled in, dropped it off, called him a few days later and he said it's fixed, $209 out the door...

 

I've never heard of resonance due to the firing order doing this. I've seen engines that were over/under balanced that would tighten or loosen every nut and bolt near the engine. I've had certain turbos that would shatter the exhaust wheel due to the firing order and resulting resonance from my engines exhaust pulses, well actually only one turbo but still.

I've had detonation knock plugs loose before, several times. Harmonics are harmonics so I'm sure what you say is possible but its the first I've ever heard of it. Good info. I'm sure there's a magic rpm where this is worse. It would be nice to get all who have had this problem and see if most do a lot of freeway driving sitting at 2,400rpm or autos that will sit around 2,200-2,800rpm during normal easy acceleration. Maybe it's more spirited manual transmission drivers that regularly go above 4,000 rpm. But yeah, it seems like checking the plugs at a regular interval is the only sure way to stop it.

 

I don't know of any one who torques their spark plugs that work on cars for a living, dealer or independent. Honda recommends 16-18ft lbs, but any experienced tech can gauge 16-18ftlbs by hand. It's not that much torque. Maybe under torquing would cause a plug to back out, but even a loose drain plug would fall out.

 

Might be more of a cruising speed, because this issue is present on Odysseys and pilots, and I'm sure the mdx might have the same concern. Fords v8 has a similar issue shooting the plug and coil out hitting the fuel rail....

 

Actually, it's 13 ft-lbs for the TL....

 

Ford has a different problem. In fact I just got done tightening down my CHP friends lightning due to a ticking sound that be was worried might be internal. In these modulars; Ford did not have enough threads in the head. When I tightened this one, just like any time I put a plug into an aluminum head I thread it by hand until it seats and then put a wrench on it. The first time I threaded it in, it had so few turns that I removed it to make sure I was not cross threading it. So it put it back in, what felt like 2 full turns and put a wrench on it. It was a dead stop, no springiness or any indication it might be cross threaded. The truck has been fine since. I knew the problem was caused from too few threads but this was rediculous. Ford fixed the problem in the later heads though they never officially admitted it. I honestly don't know how the plugs stayed in this supercharged engine.

 

3 ftlbs is a big difference. There's certain things that need to be torqued. Head bolts, wheel bearings and lug nuts. Rocker assemblies usually
Only take 16-18 ft lbs. intake manifolds 16-20ft lbs. ball joints and tie rods 40-50 ft lbs. those are a few things that don't really need to be torqued, but have torque specs. Small torque specs are for people who don't know how to stop.

 

I agree. With experience you can tell when something is tight enough. There's a feel and that sweet spot. I use a torque wrench when I'm building an engine when the torque determines bearing crush and main and especially rod bearing clearance. Head bolt stretch along with proper gasket compression requires a torque wrench. Pan and valve cover bolts never get a torque wrench. You can feel the gaskets compress and you can feel when it's just right. How people break valve cover bolts I'll never know especially since the TL uses bolts that have a stop built in so you can't over torque the gasket. Once it gets firm you're done. The little bolts that screw into the aluminum intake also have a feel to them when they're just right. I trust the feel more than I trust torque settings on a wrench any day especially considering most torque wrenches are off and most people do t know the proper way to use one. For the small bolts going into aluminum I hold the ratchet near the socket to give myself less leverage and a better feel. You can actually feel the springiness of the bolt and threads and when that springiness starts to go away.

I can't imagine using a torque wrench on spark plugs. It's not needed and if you're using a swivel or u joint it will surely be under torqued with a torque wrench.

The only other place I use a torque wrench is the valve body of a transmission. It's way too critical and its hard to get a good feel on those things.

 

^^^^exactly, I used a torque wrench on a civic for the spark plugs just to see what it would feel like, and you couldn't tell the difference. Even the head bolts aren't a specific torque spec, usually 29ftlbs and the 2 sets of 90 degrees. Which usually
Leaves you between 80-95 ftlbs roughly. It's definitely all about the feel.