BreBar21

Driving home yesterday and the car randomly started acting up - sluggish, jumpy, not shifting right, etc. I now realize it's in limp mode after some searching. The VSA, Brake, ABS, airbag, and ! lights are all on. No CEL, but I scanned the OBDII anyway just to be sure and it's not throwing codes. I realize the ABS/VSA codes do not show up with a regular scanner. Also struggled a little bit to start the last couple times, but the battery is newish and I replaced the starter maybe 2-3 months ago. Brake fluid level is fine. I went ahead and ordered the APP sensor based on some searching. Car has 145k on it and is the original sensor. Do these symptoms seem to be in line with the an APP sensor failure?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

no. it sounds like you forgot to tighten battery cables.
check your work.

go over starter install. go over battery cables. make sure all connections are tight and cables are not corroded

BreBar21

Battery was replaced some time ago, so that's not a fresh install. I did, however, check the terminals and starter connections again and everything is as it should it - nothing loose and no corrosion. When I started the car today, everything ran as it should for the first couple mins, then all the aforementioned lights popped back on and the car went back into limp mode. I would love if it was something as simple as a battery, but I don't think that's it. That said, if the consensus is that's still the likely culprit, I can yank it and have it tested. Thoughts?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

i dont know if the APP sensor would cause VSA/ABS and air bag sensors to go awry.

if you bought the APP sensor, go ahead and give it a go and see if it fixes your problems

BreBar21

Tend to agree. Odd that they all popped at once. Perhaps I'll gamble on the APP sensor and see if that's it. Amazon has a pretty good return policy if not lol

jimmyfu

I had this happen once and after inspecting the wires I realized a rat chewed through the connections. Had to bring it to an indy to re-solder the connections because replacing the whole wiring harness would have costed $2k.

BreBar21

Update. Not the APP sensor. Swapped it out and lights showed up after a little drive. Feel like the car is starting weak. Wondering if you're inclination about the battery is right. Could that or maybe even the starter throw those lights?

Edit: As I think about this, can a weak battery cause the car to go into limp mode? Lights come on after a little bit of driving, so could it be a wheel speed sensor or the like?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

clean up the APP sensor and send it back!!

i'm inclined to think voltage is off somewhere(battery or alternator) thus the throwing of random lights.
or it could be a real problem with those sensors, like a mouse or debris tearing through the wire

NoTLoud

Had an issue with my old car where all of the dash lights would randomly come on. One day the lights came on and then the car just decided to turn itself all the way off.

I start investigating things and it turns out we had forgot to tighten the alternator positive cable down all the way, so it was providing an intermittent connection. The protective cap and wire were burned up a bit, so I am lucky that a fire did not start under my hood.

Could be that your alternator is on it's way out or an issue with the wiring. I would have both the alternator and battery tested to see if one is bad. However, most of the time when an alternator dies, it's dead.

To add, doubtful that the starter would cause an issue with the lights coming on. The result of the car feeling weaker when you crank it could be an issue with the starter, but chances are that it is an issue with low voltage in the battery. So either your battery is barely hanging in there are you alternator is somehow intermittently charging it.

BreBar21

Oh yes. It's already cleaned, boxed, sealed, and ready to go back.

Would a voltage issue trigger limp mode though? That's the one thing that makes me believe it is more likely a bad sensor somewhere. I can pull the battery and go get it tested. I may bite the bullet and pay Honda the $80 to get it diagnosed.

NoTLoud

You can also have the alternator benched too, but I have heard those tests are not always reliable. If you get the battery fully charged and the issue goes away for a bit, but then comes back, my money would be on alternator.

I am not sure if low voltage would cause your car to go into limp mode, but I would not be surprised. If the car doesn't have enough voltage to power the electronics then it's gonna have issues.

I would start checking fuses as well. My money is on some sort of electrical system failure, but they can be hard to diagnose.

BreBar21

Had the battery tested and it's fine. Was .6 low on volts, so it's hooked up to my charger now. Certainly not low enough to cause the drivability issues and lights. Would think the fact that it was almost fully charged would probably rule out the alternator as the culprit as well. Agree with that logic?

First thing I did when this happened yesterday was check the fuse box and nothing was blown. I'll look again and see if I missed anything. Absolutely loathe chasing electrical grelims.

Slpr04UA6

I currently have "airbag" light on, turns out it is bad drivers seatbelt buckle. (Common issue) It comes on and sometimes doesn't.


I had the code read by a buddy who has a tool to read all codes/faults within the ECM. While we were checking that "airbag" light, I had a number of other "faults", vsa, abs, and a few other electrical faults. I was surprised, but after telling my buddy of having starter replaced he said prob all due to low voltage when starter went out. He erased/cleared all the faults. After driving it a couple of miles, all of a sudden VSA triangle was on, and VSA in center cluster was on. Went back immediately, and checked those sensors, with his computer. All of the values for those sensors, were off. Weird cause I hadn't had a light on besides airbag, prior. He reset the values to what they should be, and we re-cycled the ECM (turn off car, while still leaving key in on position, then restarted car, and no more lights. Except airbag, but I knew that would still be on.


Hope that makes sense, I know his device is not just a simple code reader tho, he can look at every sensor on the car. Pretty cool, but I'm sure not cheap.

BreBar21

Interesting. If I'm tracking correctly, your buddy believes theres some correlation between the starter shitting out and being replaced and the voltage issue triggering the lights/codes? I replaced the starter I think 2 months ago and everything has been fine until yesterday. Did you ever have your car go into limp mode or did it just throw codes?

Little update: I rechecked all the fuses and nothing is blown. Battery will charge overnight and I'll throw it back in tomorrow morning and see what happens. I have an appointment in the afternoon to get the codes read at Honda if I'm still having an issue, which I'm sure I will. That is also assuming the car makes it there and doesn't explode - by its own volition or perhaps mine - between my house and the dealer.

Slpr04UA6

Yes, my buddy said the low voltage was the culprit of the "faults". No lights on after starter was replaced, besides airbag light. It is odd, that even after erasing faults, there were initially no lights on, but after driving 2miles they came on.
So as I said before, he checked those specific sensors "values", and then since they were off/different than what they should be, he was able to put them back to normal, and since, no more lights. (His computer can show what the values are supposed to be, and what they are currently, and somehow he can adjust or reset those values). And, no I didn't have any "limp mode", and no codes, just "faults". I asked for a code, but he said there were none.

Airbag light goes off, and comes on intermittently. Sometimes not at all, sometimes all the time. I need to stop by Dealer to have it replaced.

BreBar21

Left the battery hooked up to my trickle charger overnight. Put it back in to take the car to get the codes read. Car fires right up and no lights. Figure I'll drive to Honda and see if they pop up. They do not. I talk to the SA anyway and he says it's def voltage and prob the battery. Leave there to go to Advanced to test again. Lights come on during the drive to Advance. We test the battery, starter, and alternator. Battery is low, starter is fine, alternator is on its way out. I guess it's time for a new alternator. Is there a how-to floating around for alternator replacement?

Slpr04UA6

Huh, well at least that's a start.

I couldnt find a DIY on Azine, but here is something from another site.

https://www.2carpros.com/questions/2...ondering-about

kap1320

Hey, had the same issue a couple months ago. Battery tested fine and was at normal voltage at 12.8v when I would check it, but it turned out to be the alternator voltage regulator was putting out 16v at idle and would increase to 23v at revs, and would throw up all those lights and would make the headlights go out once I got up to highway speed. I was used to alternators going out causing the car to die by draining the battery, not overcharging, so it wasn't the first thing to come to mind. Changed alternator and battery because it has started to swell after a week of being constantly overcharged, everything is good to go now.

BreBar21

Swapped the alternator out earlier today and everything appears to be back to normal. Will get everything load tested again when I drop the old alternator off for the core deposit.

Never found a DIY for the alternator, but the links like the one posted above help. That said, most of the stuff I found has you removing way more shit than you need to.

1. Remove engine covers
2. Disconnect battery
3. Slide Power Steering Reservoir up and out of the bracket.
4. Disconnect the hose clamp and tube on top of reservoir (thicker of the 2 tubes). This will give you enough slack to move the reservoir out of the way. You can swing it towards the radiator. Have a rag handy so you don't get fluid on the belt or pulleys.
4. Remove the metal bracket for the top alternator bolt.
5. Disconnect the 2 electrical connections for the alternator and move the harness out of the way.
6. Push tensioner pulley toward the back of the car to slip the belt off.
7. Unbolt top and bottom alternator bolts and wiggle it out.

Once unbolted, it took some twisting and turning, but I was able to slip the alternator out without having to remove the fan, radiator, etc. No need for all of that extra work. The whole thing took like 30mins.

BreBar21

Had everything tested again when I dropped the core off and all is well. Drove around running errands this evening and no issues, so it appears a bum alternator was the culprit. Thanks all for the help.