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Hey all I'm back. So I had an issue earlier where my Timing Belt Idler bolt (Bolt #11 here) was stripped out, so I tried to use a Heli-Coil to re-thread the block. Here's where I made the mistake. I must not have gotten the Heli-Coil in completely because I was able to use the same amount of force for the duration of tightening (after hand starting of course) and the bolt snapped in the block Getting a drill in there doesn't seem possible due to the frame being in the way and it seems the only route is to pull out the whole engine to extract it, and even then I have a borked hole on the block. So I really have two questions:
1) Is my only option to pull the engine to get at this bolt?
2) Is there any sort of Idler delete out there that would take advantage of a shorter belt? Or does it not work that way?
I don't imagine there would be some sort of way to delete the idler since the belt wouldn't fit within the confines of the belt panels. Looking at the side of the engine, it may even get in the way of the alternator if the idler pulley isn't there.
I've jimmy rigged some things before but obviously doing that with anything timing related is a no-no.
I wonder if you could remove some of the mounts then jack up the passenger side of the engine enough to access the bolt. Then do a tap and die or something. Just a thought. It might be too low to do that easily. It may still require removing driveaxles and wiring in order to get the engine/transmission assembly that high.
As the OP mentions above, getting a drill, even a right-angle one, between the frame rail and engine appears to be a challenge; therefore, I'm wondering if he attempted to first drill out the stripped block idler pulley bolt hole BEFORE inserting the 'Heli-Coil' thus allowing for it to fit correctly and allow for expansion??
Not sure about the size (10X1.25mm?) of that Idler pulley bolt; however, if you look at it on the link below it looks pretty substantial to hold 33lbf-ft in an aluminium block.
Secondly new plan. It looks like my new plan is to pull off the oil pump housing and I can extract the bot that way, but my question is this, do I have to fully remove the oil pan, or is it possible to just pull the shared bolts from the pan and the housing? I was trying to pull my pan completely off, but I have a rather stubborn few exhaust nuts.. Turns out they don't like it if they haven't been removed in 15 years lol
You need to remove the oil pan, in order to remove the oil pump. In order to remove the oil pan, you need to remove either the J-pipe or the entire exhaust depending on how rusted the 3 nuts are by the 3d cat. I removed the entire exhaust. The nuts on the J-pipe are high risk, make sure you have a set of damaged nut/bolt removal socket set. I hammered on the 13mm on a couple nuts to remove them because they've rusted away down to less than 14mm. I'm going through this job as we speak on my 07 AV6 to reseal the oil pump at 300k miles.
You need to remove the oil pan, in order to remove the oil pump. In order to remove the oil pan, you need to remove either the J-pipe or the entire exhaust depending on how rusted the 3 nuts are by the 3d cat. I removed the entire exhaust. The nuts on the J-pipe are high risk, make sure you have a set of damaged nut/bolt removal socket set. I hammered on the 13mm on a couple nuts to remove them because they've rusted away down to less than 14mm. I'm going through this job as we speak on my 07 AV6 to reseal the oil pump at 300k miles.
I was afraid of that answer but I suppose it does make sense. Less chance of getting shit in the pan I suppose.
Regarding the exhaust nuts, I figured something was up when I got a 13mm on one of em, but couldn't get it an a different one lol. This'll be fun! Thanks for the info and best of luck
PS Are you replacing the pan gasket as well? If so, where did you pick yours up?
There is no gasket. You use Hondabond HT (high heat) or Permatex equivalent, liquid gasket. You need to scrape off the old and lay down a new bead all around.
There is no gasket. You use Hondabond HT (high heat) or Permatex equivalent, liquid gasket. You need to scrape off the old and lay down a new bead all around.
Did you happen to use the carbide scraper I recommended in post #20 on the thread below?
If so, how did it work out for you?
I just got to this today. I used plastic blade to scrape off the old gasket. I used a short piece of wood and a mallet, and knocked on the rear side of the pump and it came right off.
Haven't quite gotten to the part where I put everything back together yet, still fighting with the Oil Pump Housing lol. Thought I'd ask, seeing as I broke the Idler Pulley Bolt, where the hell do I get a new one? I Can't seem to find one anywhere, and I'd rather not pull it from the junk yard lol
Thought I'd ask, seeing as I broke the Idler Pulley Bolt, where the hell do I get a new one? I Can't seem to find one anywhere, and I'd rather not pull it from the junk yard lol
Refer to the link in post #2 on your other thread below:
In addition, even though you will have the oil pump housing out of the engine bay while working on the 'drill out', it may be helpful to refer to the video below when it comes time to perform the heili-coil:
In addition, even though you will have the oil pump housing out of the engine bay while working on the 'drill out', it may be helpful to refer to the video below when it comes time to perform the heili-coil:
Haven't quite gotten to the part where I put everything back together yet, still fighting with the Oil Pump Housing lol. Thought I'd ask, seeing as I broke the Idler Pulley Bolt, where the hell do I get a new one? I Can't seem to find one anywhere, and I'd rather not pull it from the junk yard lol
What are you fighting with on the oil pump?! Make sure you loosened all bolts and remove the VTEC solenoid or it's not coming off.
What are you fighting with on the oil pump?! Make sure you loosened all bolts and remove the VTEC solenoid or it's not coming off.
Turns out I was fighting my broken bolt! It was between the Pump and the Engine block being a royal dick. But I finally have the pump off, should have it all back together soon, I miss my baby <3
Turns out I was fighting my broken bolt!It was between the Pump and the Engine block being a royal dick.
Someone correct me please if I'm wrong; however, I don't believe the Timing Idler bolt goes through the oil pump housing into the engine block based on the pictures below. If it did, then it would enter the vertical oil passage on the right side of the block.
Originally Posted by VictorTL
If I'm not mistaken the timing belt idle pulley bolt inserts into the larger circular hole, over to the upper right side, on the picture below of the oil pump housing.
Originally Posted by VictorTL
Even though the oil pump housing is oriented differently, the bubble like 'dimple' you see, in the upper right picture above of the oil pump housing, is the farthest point the timing idler pulley bolt can penetrate the oil pump housing.
Originally Posted by VictorTL
The oil pump housing on Victor TL's 2011 MDX, contained in the pictures above, is practically identical to JoshJ5Hawk's 2005 TL.
After further review, it appears that I'm wrong about the post above.
I believe the 'bolt hole' in question, in the block, for the TB Idler pulley can be seen in the picture below, to the right of the larger hole and above the corner point of the oil passage.
Originally Posted by VictorTL
I was under the impression that the cavity that held the threads for the TB Idler pulley was somehow contained within the oil pump housing itself. However, then I thought how could the OP have trouble getting off the oil pump housing unless the idler bolt somehow passed through and fastened within the block?
Now I see the bolt hole and I was tricked by the orientation of the oil pump housing in the picture used in the previous post. OMG!
So that still means the threaded hole (10X1.25mm?) in the block will still need to be drilled out with a right angle drill and tapped to receive the appropriate sized heili-coil.
It may be prudent, after reinstalling the oil pump housing, to run the new TB Idler pulley bolt through its bolt hole and thread it a few turns. That way, as the Honda Bond drys, there won't be any hang ups with the TB idler pulley bolt aligning and threading into its new heili-coil home when performing the TB replacement.
After reading some posts with s2000 guys who built engines, I used Permatex ultra grey, -65F to 500F degree. It's literally the same as Hondabond, at about half the price of Hondabond. My tube of Hondabond is old and and very hard to squeeze out so I decided not to use it. I just finished putting on the oil pump and the oil pan yesterday, oil filled back into the engine literally just an hour ago. No leak anywhere. I did wait more than 24 hours in between for the gasket maker to cure. This is the key, give it time to let it cure completely. This is definitely a massive job, tons of steps with tons of parts that need to come off and you need to be careful everywhere keep track of all the bolts. A very good in-lb torque is definitely required or you literally will break small bolts off doing it by feel. I have a Snap-on 1/4" drive one.
That large hole on top of the oil pump is where the timing belt idler pulley goes through.
That large hole on top of the oil pump is where the timing belt idler pulley goes through.
Just curious, if you had to get in there, between the frame rail and the engine block, once the oil pump housing was removed, to heili-coil the TB idler pulley threads in the engine block, would there be enough room?
In your opinion, what would be the better approach, on your back from the bottom or from the top with a right angle drill??
Just cleaning the mating surface of the block required me lying down with a acetone soaked paper towel, then sticking my arm through the wheel well with the knuckle and the brake there. It is awkward. Tapping that hole would be SUPER TOUGH, to get it straight. That hole's position is about at the mid/bottom of the frame rail. That's why you never want to over-torque anything there. I was turning my 1/4" torque wrench super slow to get to 8.7 lb-ft or 105 lb-in for most bolts. Idler pulley calls for 33 ft-lb, still can be easily over-torqued.
Just cleaning the mating surface of the block required me lying down with a acetone soaked paper towel, then sticking my arm through the wheel well with the knuckle and the brake there. It is awkward. Tapping that hole would be SUPER TOUGH, to get it straight. That hole's position is about at the mid/bottom of the frame rail. That's why you never want to over-torque anything there. I was turning my 1/4" torque wrench super slow to get to 8.7 lb-ft or 105 lb-in for most bolts. Idler pulley calls for 33 ft-lb, still can be easily over-torqued.
Dude, thanks for that detailed post!
That's the reason I thought I would ask because you have just been in that area, for your oil pump reseal, and was hoping you could provide a painstaking account of what you ran into.
Any 'well-meaning' timing belt DIY'er like the OP, could quickly find themselves in a total clusterf*ck, real quick, in that area without even realizing it, and have a major 'tear-down & repair' situation on their hands.
I'm just trying to bring and extract as much accurate info. to make this thread usable for the next unfortunate individual that may encounter this very situation. To my knowledge, and I've been here since Aug 2003, this is the first time I've seen this discussed and brought to light; though, I know it has happened in the past.
I started the job last last Friday, and it's just about done in the new few days. It's taking me a while because I'm replacing the downstream O2 sensors as well as rust-proofing the OEM mufflers. I thought I'd take it slow to not mess up. Mating the oil pan back on was a HUGE pain in the @$$ , I thought the oil pump was easy after I did the pan. Aside from having to line up the pan to the block, you need to not mess up the fresh gasket maker and hold the pan with one arm while you put and screw a couple bolts in with the other arm. All that with the front end on jack stands while lying under the car. I swear this is where all that regular exercise pay off! After that's done, timing belt + water pump job is a total breeze, it is nothing.
So I'm making progress, finally getting everything back together.
I was trying to pull the tensioner grenade pin and it snapped so I had to pry it off/out and ended up with
now I still have tension and hear no air leaking (I understand it's a gas piston?). Am I safe to leave that guy there or should I replace?
damn man..... It's not a gas piston, it is hydraulic fluid filled. Mine was stuck also, you just need to keep pulling and it will come out. Don't pry anything there, it's super sensitive, everything is aluminum on that face of the motor including various parts.
^^
^
If the OP is at that point in the repair job, I'm just hoping he comes back here, to his thread discussion, and describes how he fixed the stripped idler pulley bolt engine block threads.
Hasty decisions make for a lot of troubles! If it were me, I would have taken the tensioner back off, use a C clamp and push the piston back. Take the pin out, straighten it, stick pin back in, bolt back tensioner then pull a second time.
Hasty decisions make for a lot of troubles! If it were me, I would have taken the tensioner back off, use a C clamp and push the piston back. Take the pin out, straighten it, stick pin back in, bolt back tensioner then pull a second time.
And put some grease, or WD40, or PB on it to make it easier.
Regarding the tensioner: I was told at the auto store it was gas, so I guess I was misinformed lol. I just put a new on on the after my oopsie, and that pin came out a lot easier for some reason.
Fixed the idler bolt with a helicoil, using a right angle drill to slowly drill out the hole. What made it go smoother was I put the helicoil in with the oil pump off.
Now my new problem, after getting everything back together, letting the hondabond sit for 24hr to let it properly cure, I somehow lost all 4.5q of oil over the next 36 hours, and naturally it rained like crazy so I wasn't able to see where it was leaking... how the hell do I lose all my oil that fast? New drain pan, new gaskets on everything I took off (filter, oil pump, oil pan). But I can't see any place that the oil is leaking. Any suggestions?
Now my new problem, after getting everything back together, letting the hondabond sit for 24hr to let it properly cure, I somehow lost all 4.5q of oil over the next 36 hours, and naturally it rained like crazy so I wasn't able to see where it was leaking... how the hell do I lose all my oil that fast? New drain pan, new gaskets on everything I took off (filter, oil pump, oil pan). But I can't see any place that the oil is leaking. Any suggestions?
If I'm understanding you correctly, 'I somehow lost all 4.5q of oil over the next 36 hours', If the engine was not running and the car just sitting, like in an outdoors driveway, and ALL of the oil is gone, than it had to drain from the lowest point of the oil pan, the drain plug area. You can see it, drain plug area, in the picture below. Otherwise,
If I'm understanding you correctly, 'I somehow lost all 4.5q of oil over the next 36 hours', If the engine was not running and the car just sitting, like in an outdoors driveway, and ALL of the oil is gone, than it had to drain from the lowest point of the oil pan, the drain plug area. You can see it, drain plug area, in the picture below. Otherwise,
I guess I could have worded that better lol. I did drive it about 10 minutes to get it home, after letting it idle for about 5 to make sure cooland and oil was circulating properly.
I guess I also shouldn't assume I lost all 4.5qts, I just mean my dipstick is bone dry lol. Had to head of to work after making the post so I thought I'd reach out to the hive mind for things to check when I get home lol. Will for sure check the drain plug though thank you!
Can confirm, drain plug didn't fall out on me. I wonder if I did a terrible job with the Hondabond. I see aftermarket oil pan gaskets out there, is it worth giving o e of those a try if I'm not confident in my Hondabond abilities? lol
You can't possibly believe everything a regular auto store clerk tells you. There is hydraulic fluid inside the tensioner, it is not gas filled. Because when these tensioners grow old, they start leaking hydraulic fluid out of it.
There are many oil ports that can spring a leak if not sealed back up properly, after having crank up the engine finally last night in my garage and let it idle for 30 minutes. I took a light and looked all over the place while it was on stands. I almost forgot to put back on an oil filter, this would be a huge disaster.
- o-ring on the oil pump obviously
- oil pressure switch on the oil pump
- several oil ports on the VTEC solenoid
- oil pump mating surface to block
- oil pan mating surface to block
- oil filter -> you did put one back on right?!?!?
- oil drain plug
So take a light and go look around again. If the oil stick is dry and the oil level was at max when you filled it, then you lost over 1 quart within that 10 minute drive. That's A LOT VERY QUICKLY.
04-21-2019, 07:53 PM
Getting a drill in there doesn't seem possible due to the frame being in the way and it seems the only route is to pull out the whole engine to extract it, and even then I have a borked hole on the block. So I really have two questions:
