Questions for 6sp owners
08-11-2012, 12:43 PM
#1
Questions for 6sp owners
i have 6sp, 05, tl, I have a couple questions and I would like know if anybody has experienced this problems and what should I do.
1 2nd gear it's really annoying, I have to really take my time when shifting into 2nd unlike anyother gear, I really have to force the shifter in.
2 when in third gear when ever I let go of the gas usually around 35 to 40 miles an hour the car jerks, it does everytime no matter what.
3 whenever I am upshifting as I let go of the gas and push in the clutch I can see the passenger head going up and down, it's not really a hard jerk but i guess it has to do with a motor, tranny mount or it's this normal.
4 I have vibrations comming from clutch and gas pedal, I can also feel it when i put my foot on the dead pedal. Could this be a master, slave cylinder or bad mount, I can also feel the windshield wipers through the pedals.
5 there's squeak coming for the clutch, I have heard of the spring being a common problem.
6 whenever I kind of grab the clutch late( kind of like giving it gas just after I move the car without any gas by just releasing the clutch) there an vibration that goes through the whole car and a click,click sound kind of like hitting a pencil on a table reapitibly, this sound come right under the pedals, is that the slave or master cylinder or component of the clutch.
Car has 99, xxx miles now. Previous owner did the gm tranny fluid change between 30 to 90 thousand miles. Don't think he ever replaced the motor mounts and has a original clutch.
Well this are the questions that I have, any help would be appriciated.
Thanks.
1 2nd gear it's really annoying, I have to really take my time when shifting into 2nd unlike anyother gear, I really have to force the shifter in.
2 when in third gear when ever I let go of the gas usually around 35 to 40 miles an hour the car jerks, it does everytime no matter what.
3 whenever I am upshifting as I let go of the gas and push in the clutch I can see the passenger head going up and down, it's not really a hard jerk but i guess it has to do with a motor, tranny mount or it's this normal.
4 I have vibrations comming from clutch and gas pedal, I can also feel it when i put my foot on the dead pedal. Could this be a master, slave cylinder or bad mount, I can also feel the windshield wipers through the pedals.
5 there's squeak coming for the clutch, I have heard of the spring being a common problem.
6 whenever I kind of grab the clutch late( kind of like giving it gas just after I move the car without any gas by just releasing the clutch) there an vibration that goes through the whole car and a click,click sound kind of like hitting a pencil on a table reapitibly, this sound come right under the pedals, is that the slave or master cylinder or component of the clutch.
Car has 99, xxx miles now. Previous owner did the gm tranny fluid change between 30 to 90 thousand miles. Don't think he ever replaced the motor mounts and has a original clutch.
Well this are the questions that I have, any help would be appriciated.
Thanks.
Last edited by edgarr; 08-11-2012 at 12:49 PM.
08-11-2012, 01:51 PM
#2
Racer
The awkward shifting is normal. I had driven manual cars for 6 years before I got my TL, and I felt like a noob the first time I drove the TL.
I think a lot of it has to do with the slave cylinder check valve, which seems to delay inputs from the clutch pedal. It's supposed to make shifts smoother, but if you learned to drive stick on a car that didn't have this feature it seems to have the opposite effect.
As for the noises you described, those definitely aren't normal. I'm not sure what would cause them though.
I think a lot of it has to do with the slave cylinder check valve, which seems to delay inputs from the clutch pedal. It's supposed to make shifts smoother, but if you learned to drive stick on a car that didn't have this feature it seems to have the opposite effect.
As for the noises you described, those definitely aren't normal. I'm not sure what would cause them though.
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edgarr (08-12-2012)
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edgarr (08-12-2012)
08-11-2012, 04:35 PM
#4
Drifting
1 2nd gear it's really annoying, I have to really take my time when shifting into 2nd unlike anyother gear, I really have to force the shifter in.
- Try double-clutching between 1st and 2nd to see if it smooths out engagement. My 2nd and 6th are tough sometimes usually when cold and I have to double-clutch to get them to engage easily.
2 when in third gear when ever I let go of the gas usually around 35 to 40 miles an hour the car jerks, it does everytime no matter what.
- Not sure on this, but looking at the mounts would be somewhere to start?
3 whenever I am upshifting as I let go of the gas and push in the clutch I can see the passenger head going up and down, it's not really a hard jerk but i guess it has to do with a motor, tranny mount or it's this normal.
- Maybe same as #2? Usually normal for a manual transmission car to see the passengers bob around a bit during shifts unless you are smooth as butter. Only in my Probe and my Cavalier could I consistently shift without my passengers moving around. The TL is very difficult to be smooth with the shifting.
4 I have vibrations comming from clutch and gas pedal, I can also feel it when i put my foot on the dead pedal. Could this be a master, slave cylinder or bad mount, I can also feel the windshield wipers through the pedals.
- No clue.
5 there's squeak coming for the clutch, I have heard of the spring being a common problem.
- The clutch pedal squeaks or clicks is either just the spring needing to be lubed up or the slave (or is it master?) needs to be replaced.
6 whenever I kind of grab the clutch late( kind of like giving it gas just after I move the car without any gas by just releasing the clutch) there an vibration that goes through the whole car and a click,click sound kind of like hitting a pencil on a table reapitibly, this sound come right under the pedals, is that the slave or master cylinder or component of the clutch.
- Are you stalling the engine out? These engines are noisy as can be if you almost stall them out.
- Try double-clutching between 1st and 2nd to see if it smooths out engagement. My 2nd and 6th are tough sometimes usually when cold and I have to double-clutch to get them to engage easily.
2 when in third gear when ever I let go of the gas usually around 35 to 40 miles an hour the car jerks, it does everytime no matter what.
- Not sure on this, but looking at the mounts would be somewhere to start?
3 whenever I am upshifting as I let go of the gas and push in the clutch I can see the passenger head going up and down, it's not really a hard jerk but i guess it has to do with a motor, tranny mount or it's this normal.
- Maybe same as #2? Usually normal for a manual transmission car to see the passengers bob around a bit during shifts unless you are smooth as butter. Only in my Probe and my Cavalier could I consistently shift without my passengers moving around. The TL is very difficult to be smooth with the shifting.
4 I have vibrations comming from clutch and gas pedal, I can also feel it when i put my foot on the dead pedal. Could this be a master, slave cylinder or bad mount, I can also feel the windshield wipers through the pedals.
- No clue.
5 there's squeak coming for the clutch, I have heard of the spring being a common problem.
- The clutch pedal squeaks or clicks is either just the spring needing to be lubed up or the slave (or is it master?) needs to be replaced.
6 whenever I kind of grab the clutch late( kind of like giving it gas just after I move the car without any gas by just releasing the clutch) there an vibration that goes through the whole car and a click,click sound kind of like hitting a pencil on a table reapitibly, this sound come right under the pedals, is that the slave or master cylinder or component of the clutch.
- Are you stalling the engine out? These engines are noisy as can be if you almost stall them out.
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edgarr (08-12-2012)
08-11-2012, 06:10 PM
#5
2 - I would feel this, but after changing my oil to motul 5w-40 from stock it disappeared so I'm not sure if it was the synthetic change or just a general oil change fixed it. Check your oil?
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edgarr (08-12-2012)
08-11-2012, 06:20 PM
#6
1 2nd gear it's really annoying, I have to really take my time when shifting into 2nd unlike anyother gear, I really have to force the shifter in.
- Try double-clutching between 1st and 2nd to see if it smooths out engagement. My 2nd and 6th are tough sometimes usually when cold and I have to double-clutch to get them to engage easily.
2 when in third gear when ever I let go of the gas usually around 35 to 40 miles an hour the car jerks, it does everytime no matter what.
- Not sure on this, but looking at the mounts would be somewhere to start?
3 whenever I am upshifting as I let go of the gas and push in the clutch I can see the passenger head going up and down, it's not really a hard jerk but i guess it has to do with a motor, tranny mount or it's this normal.
- Maybe same as #2? Usually normal for a manual transmission car to see the passengers bob around a bit during shifts unless you are smooth as butter. Only in my Probe and my Cavalier could I consistently shift without my passengers moving around. The TL is very difficult to be smooth with the shifting.
4 I have vibrations comming from clutch and gas pedal, I can also feel it when i put my foot on the dead pedal. Could this be a master, slave cylinder or bad mount, I can also feel the windshield wipers through the pedals.
- No clue.
5 there's squeak coming for the clutch, I have heard of the spring being a common problem.
- The clutch pedal squeaks or clicks is either just the spring needing to be lubed up or the slave (or is it master?) needs to be replaced.
6 whenever I kind of grab the clutch late( kind of like giving it gas just after I move the car without any gas by just releasing the clutch) there an vibration that goes through the whole car and a click,click sound kind of like hitting a pencil on a table reapitibly, this sound come right under the pedals, is that the slave or master cylinder or component of the clutch.
- Are you stalling the engine out? These engines are noisy as can be if you almost stall them out.
- Try double-clutching between 1st and 2nd to see if it smooths out engagement. My 2nd and 6th are tough sometimes usually when cold and I have to double-clutch to get them to engage easily.
2 when in third gear when ever I let go of the gas usually around 35 to 40 miles an hour the car jerks, it does everytime no matter what.
- Not sure on this, but looking at the mounts would be somewhere to start?
3 whenever I am upshifting as I let go of the gas and push in the clutch I can see the passenger head going up and down, it's not really a hard jerk but i guess it has to do with a motor, tranny mount or it's this normal.
- Maybe same as #2? Usually normal for a manual transmission car to see the passengers bob around a bit during shifts unless you are smooth as butter. Only in my Probe and my Cavalier could I consistently shift without my passengers moving around. The TL is very difficult to be smooth with the shifting.
4 I have vibrations comming from clutch and gas pedal, I can also feel it when i put my foot on the dead pedal. Could this be a master, slave cylinder or bad mount, I can also feel the windshield wipers through the pedals.
- No clue.
5 there's squeak coming for the clutch, I have heard of the spring being a common problem.
- The clutch pedal squeaks or clicks is either just the spring needing to be lubed up or the slave (or is it master?) needs to be replaced.
6 whenever I kind of grab the clutch late( kind of like giving it gas just after I move the car without any gas by just releasing the clutch) there an vibration that goes through the whole car and a click,click sound kind of like hitting a pencil on a table reapitibly, this sound come right under the pedals, is that the slave or master cylinder or component of the clutch.
- Are you stalling the engine out? These engines are noisy as can be if you almost stall them out.
08-11-2012, 06:27 PM
#7
Yea my oil life says 15% now, I'm doing it tomorrow. this is gonna be my first oil change since I got the car. The previous owner used mobil1 so I'm gonna use the same one.
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08-12-2012, 12:09 AM
#8
i have 6sp, 05, tl, I have a couple questions and I would like know if anybody has experienced this problems and what should I do.
1 2nd gear it's really annoying, I have to really take my time when shifting into 2nd unlike anyother gear, I really have to force the shifter in.
2 when in third gear when ever I let go of the gas usually around 35 to 40 miles an hour the car jerks, it does everytime no matter what.
3 whenever I am upshifting as I let go of the gas and push in the clutch I can see the passenger head going up and down, it's not really a hard jerk but i guess it has to do with a motor, tranny mount or it's this normal.
4 I have vibrations comming from clutch and gas pedal, I can also feel it when i put my foot on the dead pedal. Could this be a master, slave cylinder or bad mount, I can also feel the windshield wipers through the pedals.
5 there's squeak coming for the clutch, I have heard of the spring being a common problem.
6 whenever I kind of grab the clutch late( kind of like giving it gas just after I move the car without any gas by just releasing the clutch) there an vibration that goes through the whole car and a click,click sound kind of like hitting a pencil on a table reapitibly, this sound come right under the pedals, is that the slave or master cylinder or component of the clutch.
Car has 99, xxx miles now. Previous owner did the gm tranny fluid change between 30 to 90 thousand miles. Don't think he ever replaced the motor mounts and has a original clutch.
Well this are the questions that I have, any help would be appriciated.
Thanks.
1 2nd gear it's really annoying, I have to really take my time when shifting into 2nd unlike anyother gear, I really have to force the shifter in.
2 when in third gear when ever I let go of the gas usually around 35 to 40 miles an hour the car jerks, it does everytime no matter what.
3 whenever I am upshifting as I let go of the gas and push in the clutch I can see the passenger head going up and down, it's not really a hard jerk but i guess it has to do with a motor, tranny mount or it's this normal.
4 I have vibrations comming from clutch and gas pedal, I can also feel it when i put my foot on the dead pedal. Could this be a master, slave cylinder or bad mount, I can also feel the windshield wipers through the pedals.
5 there's squeak coming for the clutch, I have heard of the spring being a common problem.
6 whenever I kind of grab the clutch late( kind of like giving it gas just after I move the car without any gas by just releasing the clutch) there an vibration that goes through the whole car and a click,click sound kind of like hitting a pencil on a table reapitibly, this sound come right under the pedals, is that the slave or master cylinder or component of the clutch.
Car has 99, xxx miles now. Previous owner did the gm tranny fluid change between 30 to 90 thousand miles. Don't think he ever replaced the motor mounts and has a original clutch.
Well this are the questions that I have, any help would be appriciated.
Thanks.
If it means anything, Honda manual transmissions are notorious for having a notchy / clunky second gear. If it feels like you can't find second gear... Well, I would try changing the MT fluid and bleeding the clutch. Definitely check out your motor mounts though. Many owners have reported that the stock mounts fail before reaching 100,000 miles. Mine looked OK after about 70,000 miles, but after replacing them with XLR8's 75A mounts I have to say the shifting experience is a million times easier and smoother than it was with the stock mounts.
Why does that happen? Honestly, I'm not sure. But, you have to remember that the engine is bolted right up to the transmission, so the extra engine movement from dead mounts definitely has a negative effect on shifting.
Like "Jackass" (nice name, haha!) said, try double clutching from first to second to see if you can get into second any easier. It doesn't really indicate anything, but it will take some of the load off the second gear synchronizer.
2) You're always going to get some jerking if you "shock" the engine (ie, go on the throttle and then completely and suddenly let off it). However, if it's extremely noticeable, as I said before, check out your engine and transmission mounts. If you want to take a quick look, grab a flash light and pop the hood. The front engine mount is located roughly between the radiator fans and front cylinder head. Look for any tearing or fluid seepage. If your front mount is dead, then your rear mount(s) (if you include the rear engine damper as a mount) is almost certainly shot as well because the rear mounts receive the worst of the engine movement.
Here's a diagram of the mount locations. Definitely save and print a copy of this.
3) This is normal behavior for a manual transmission because by disengaging the clutch, you are ultimately interrupting the momentum of the car by temporarily disabling the transfer of power from the engine to the wheels. Of course, (as I said before), bad engine and transmission mounts can come into play causing the car to shift around a bit. However, the best way (and I'm not trying to insult / challenge your driving ability) is to practice, practice, and practice smooth shifting.
A good technique to practice is to accelerate to a given speed (let's use 30 MPH in third gear for example) and hold steady for about a second at that speed. Once you wait a second, shift to your next gear as smoothly and quickly as possible. By doing this you are basically giving the car time to move at a constant speed and preventing interruption of power to the wheels from being too noticeable. Obviously this is very difficult to do in traffic when you need to move quickly, but it's not a bad habit to develop either.
Part of the reason why the TL is difficult to drive / shift smoothly is that it is very heavy, weighing in at about 3,400 pounds. On top of making hill starts that much more difficult, the weight also amplifies the sudden loss of power to the wheels. It all comes down to inertia: "An object at rest will remain at rest unless acted on by an unbalanced force. An object in motion continues in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force." The unbalanced force in our case being the interruption of power to the wheels, causing the car to slow down just enough to cause the cars' occupants to shift around a bit.
(Some fun reading.)
4) This also sounds like bad engine and or transmission mounts. Although, I'm really not sure how you can feel the windshield wipers through the pedal.
5) Clutch pedal squeak is fairly normal unfortunately. I have found that a good spray on lubricant will fix the problem at least temporarily. Try using Zep 45 Penetrating Lubricant on the pivot point of the clutch pedal. Wurth Silicone Spray also works very well. I have found I need to do this about once a year as the squeak (or spring crunching-like noise) will return.
6) I would have to hear the sound, but just as a guess, I would say this also sounds like the clutch squeak noise.
-
Just to summarize: I think a lot of your problems would be solved by replacing the motor mounts (I would go with after market mounts of course, but that's if you don't mind some vibration at idle). Check out the transmission mounts as well. One member here (justnspace) found one of his transmission mounts ripped in half.
If the current mounts aren't shredded / dead, then definitely bleed the clutch, and change the transmission fluid. Supposedly the GM fluid can break down quickly (not saying it's a bad fluid, but it's also not a bad idea to replace the fluid with a new batch of fluid of your choice and make a habit of doing so every 30,000 miles). I would recommend either GM fluid again or Redline lightweight shockproof, but this is something you should really research on your own before going with a certain fluid.
Also, if you have not already, check out the slave cylinder check valve delete mod. This will make shifting a lot more predictable and less frustrating.
I hope this information helps. Also, sorry for the long winded post lol. Happy shifting
Last edited by komet; 08-12-2012 at 12:15 AM.
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edgarr (08-12-2012)
08-12-2012, 08:48 AM
#10
The OEM clutch on this car really is something, but I think the mounts play a big role in that 1st to 2nd shift.
I also suffer the same issue from 1st to 2nd, it causes me to be slow off the line.
I also suffer the same issue from 1st to 2nd, it causes me to be slow off the line.
08-12-2012, 08:55 AM
#11
I feel like dong that check valve delete mod. Anyone know anybody from mass or new hamp that can help me do this mod.
Last edited by edgarr; 08-12-2012 at 08:58 AM.
08-12-2012, 09:10 AM
#12
Some people TRY, but once its 3rd gear time, they FAIL.
lol
08-12-2012, 09:25 AM
#13
I read your thread about having problems shifting, let me know if you find anything that could help me too. Check your motor mounts too seems like they really affect the feeling of the car when shifting, I'm gonna change all my mounts, put in new gm tranny fluid, do the 105 k service and hopofully this helps.
08-12-2012, 08:54 PM
#16
Speaking of which, is getting into second gear difficult regardless of what gear you're coming from?
The buzzing is most likely a loose part somewhere. I've noticed that pebbles and other random junk can accumulate on top of the shielding by the mufflers as well as on top of the engine / transmission tray and exhaust heat shielding.
If you're concerned that the buzzing is coming from the transmission, try revving the engine up to 2,000 RPM and holding it for a few seconds while parked in neutral with the clutch depressed (disengaged). If the noise occurs, chances are it's just something vibrating against something else and is unrelated to transmission.
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lazytik (08-13-2012)
08-12-2012, 09:31 PM
#17
It can also be the fact that the difference between the first and second gear ratios is very wide. However, that does not explain why it would be difficult to get into second gear (either upshifting from first or downshifting from third).
Speaking of which, is getting into second gear difficult regardless of what gear you're coming from?
The buzzing is most likely a loose part somewhere. I've noticed that pebbles and other random junk can accumulate on top of the shielding by the mufflers as well as on top of the engine / transmission tray and exhaust heat shielding.
If you're concerned that the buzzing is coming from the transmission, try revving the engine up to 2,000 RPM and holding it for a few seconds while parked in neutral with the clutch depressed (disengaged). If the noise occurs, chances are it's just something vibrating against something else and is unrelated to transmission.
Speaking of which, is getting into second gear difficult regardless of what gear you're coming from?
The buzzing is most likely a loose part somewhere. I've noticed that pebbles and other random junk can accumulate on top of the shielding by the mufflers as well as on top of the engine / transmission tray and exhaust heat shielding.
If you're concerned that the buzzing is coming from the transmission, try revving the engine up to 2,000 RPM and holding it for a few seconds while parked in neutral with the clutch depressed (disengaged). If the noise occurs, chances are it's just something vibrating against something else and is unrelated to transmission.
I also did the oil change today and the old oil was really low, Not even half of the 5qt bottle of mobil1. What could be going wrong that it seems it's burning the oil?
Last edited by edgarr; 08-12-2012 at 09:34 PM.
08-12-2012, 10:32 PM
#18
Ummm. Going in to second gear downshifting from any other gear it's really notchy, even whe I rev-match. I also have this rattles or buzzing sound coming from the back of the car, I think it might be the splash shields .
I also did the oil change today and the old oil was really low, Not even half of the 5qt bottle of mobil1. What could be going wrong that it seems it's burning the oil?
I also did the oil change today and the old oil was really low, Not even half of the 5qt bottle of mobil1. What could be going wrong that it seems it's burning the oil?
If the oil depletion persists, then it wouldn't hurt to pull the ignition coils and spark plugs and see what condition they're in. If the plugs look bad (lots of blowby) or feel loose, then this may indicate a bigger issue. To be honest, there are other people on this board that know a lot more about diagnosing engine issues than I do. Perhaps the oil consumption issue would be better in a separate thread?
08-12-2012, 11:02 PM
#19
PS: This thread has some good pictures of dead engine mounts: https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...=764063&page=4
Also, I meant to edit my original post, but I'm running XLR8's 62A mounts, not their 75A durometer mounts. The 62A mounts are much more appropriate for stock power level / street usage. Annnddd I might be wrong about the rear mount taking the most abuse of the three mounts. That was just my opinion though.
Also, I meant to edit my original post, but I'm running XLR8's 62A mounts, not their 75A durometer mounts. The 62A mounts are much more appropriate for stock power level / street usage. Annnddd I might be wrong about the rear mount taking the most abuse of the three mounts. That was just my opinion though.
08-13-2012, 01:34 PM
#20
It can also be the fact that the difference between the first and second gear ratios is very wide. However, that does not explain why it would be difficult to get into second gear (either upshifting from first or downshifting from third).
Speaking of which, is getting into second gear difficult regardless of what gear you're coming from?
The buzzing is most likely a loose part somewhere. I've noticed that pebbles and other random junk can accumulate on top of the shielding by the mufflers as well as on top of the engine / transmission tray and exhaust heat shielding.
If you're concerned that the buzzing is coming from the transmission, try revving the engine up to 2,000 RPM and holding it for a few seconds while parked in neutral with the clutch depressed (disengaged). If the noise occurs, chances are it's just something vibrating against something else and is unrelated to transmission.
Speaking of which, is getting into second gear difficult regardless of what gear you're coming from?
The buzzing is most likely a loose part somewhere. I've noticed that pebbles and other random junk can accumulate on top of the shielding by the mufflers as well as on top of the engine / transmission tray and exhaust heat shielding.
If you're concerned that the buzzing is coming from the transmission, try revving the engine up to 2,000 RPM and holding it for a few seconds while parked in neutral with the clutch depressed (disengaged). If the noise occurs, chances are it's just something vibrating against something else and is unrelated to transmission.
Thanks! I'm going to go check it out.
08-17-2012, 09:15 AM
#21
blah!
sorry to bump up a slightly old thread but I figured I'd give my input.
My TL-S also chugs a bit when you let off the gas in the lower gears. More than I think it's suppose to. Going to replace the mounts soon and see if it is any better.
I've driven many manual cars before. Learnt how to drive on one and only drove manual ever. Haven't ever owned an auto. When I first drove the TL I felt like a noob. The clutch just didn't seem to behave like a regular clutch. I'm pointing the figure at the check valve in the slave. Going to remove that too and see if it gets better.
My TL-S also chugs a bit when you let off the gas in the lower gears. More than I think it's suppose to. Going to replace the mounts soon and see if it is any better.
I've driven many manual cars before. Learnt how to drive on one and only drove manual ever. Haven't ever owned an auto. When I first drove the TL I felt like a noob. The clutch just didn't seem to behave like a regular clutch. I'm pointing the figure at the check valve in the slave. Going to remove that too and see if it gets better.
08-18-2012, 06:08 PM
#22
sorry to bump up a slightly old thread but I figured I'd give my input.
My TL-S also chugs a bit when you let off the gas in the lower gears. More than I think it's suppose to. Going to replace the mounts soon and see if it is any better.
I've driven many manual cars before. Learnt how to drive on one and only drove manual ever. Haven't ever owned an auto. When I first drove the TL I felt like a noob. The clutch just didn't seem to behave like a regular clutch. I'm pointing the figure at the check valve in the slave. Going to remove that too and see if it gets better.
My TL-S also chugs a bit when you let off the gas in the lower gears. More than I think it's suppose to. Going to replace the mounts soon and see if it is any better.
I've driven many manual cars before. Learnt how to drive on one and only drove manual ever. Haven't ever owned an auto. When I first drove the TL I felt like a noob. The clutch just didn't seem to behave like a regular clutch. I'm pointing the figure at the check valve in the slave. Going to remove that too and see if it gets better.
While the stock mounts have the neat ability to compensate for engine movement "actively" (in other words, they stiffen / loosen up as the engine revs up / down) - they simply can not stand up to the abuse of everyday driving and consequently will most likely fail well before 100,000 miles.
I'm not sure if you're planning on going with stock mounts again, but (like i said before), you really can't go wrong with aftermarket mounts.
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