P0741 Tranny code of death-thanks, suggestion and thoughts?
11-15-2017, 05:41 PM
#1
Cruisin'
Thread Starter
P0741 Tranny code of death-thanks, suggestion and thoughts?
First of all I want to thank everyone for their knowledge and experience that you all share on this site. Without all the posts on this topic I don’t think I would have been able to get to the root (I think) of my problem.
Secondly I want to apologize for the length of this post in advance but I’d like to share everything regarding my situation for others experiencing the same things. So let me begin....
Late this last summer I was about 2&1/2 hours into a 5 hour, 300 mile drive in my 2005 TL from Ct to upstate NY. The cruise control was set at 74 as I was going through the Catskill mountains. While going up a large side of a mountain in the fast lane all of a sudden I felt a loss of power with the rpms shooting up to the 6 range w/no CEL. I was able to get the car over to the breakdown lane and shut it down. I got out and checked under the hood and could smell a faint burning smell. Checked all the belts and they were intact so started checking the fluids. As I pulled the tranny dipstick the burning smell got stronger as there was smoke emitting from pipe. I checked the fluid level which was fine however the fluid was a dark brown. I then conducted a search on my phone for the nearest garage which ended up being about 20 miles back in the direction I had just come.
I start the car up and start off back up the mountain to the next exit. The car would barely move, getting up to maybe 15mph w/the rpms between 5-6. I drove for about 3-5 min before the rpms shot above 6 at 5mph forcing me to pull over again. At this point I start pondering AAA while doing web searches on similar situations. I come up with many similar instances but they were all discussing the code of p0741 which I did not have. Stumped I sit there for a good 20min before I get going again. Start the car up and it runs fine but being cautious I stay in the breakdown lane maintaining 40mph with the rpms staying around 2. I pull off the next exit and pop into the gas station where I buy some tranny fluid and drop a lil in. I then start off back 20 mi to the nearest civilization and a Acura stealership. The whole ride back it runs like normal, no loss of power, no rpm jump, no codes, no issue. Finally pull into the stealership and describe the symptoms to the manager and he is stumped as no codes were thrown. I then describe the same to a mechanic and he says let’s go for a test drive. He gets in and starts the car then puts it in reverse. There is a two second delay before going into reverse and he immediately puts it back in park and says I need a new tranny. I I informed him that this is normal as it has been like that the entire seven years I have had the car. He reluctantly then says he’ll take it out for a drive. We get on a stretch and he tells me that he has to get on it several times which he does. His diagnosis is once again my tranny is about to go and I will need a new one very shortly although it was running fine with no loss of power or or rpm jumps.. Being that I am directly at the halfway point between my home and my destination I ask him if he feels I will be able make it to either point. He recommends I go get some Lucas tranny oil and put it in, cross my fingers, and try to get it to either place. I thank him for his time and off I go.
Secondly I want to apologize for the length of this post in advance but I’d like to share everything regarding my situation for others experiencing the same things. So let me begin....
Late this last summer I was about 2&1/2 hours into a 5 hour, 300 mile drive in my 2005 TL from Ct to upstate NY. The cruise control was set at 74 as I was going through the Catskill mountains. While going up a large side of a mountain in the fast lane all of a sudden I felt a loss of power with the rpms shooting up to the 6 range w/no CEL. I was able to get the car over to the breakdown lane and shut it down. I got out and checked under the hood and could smell a faint burning smell. Checked all the belts and they were intact so started checking the fluids. As I pulled the tranny dipstick the burning smell got stronger as there was smoke emitting from pipe. I checked the fluid level which was fine however the fluid was a dark brown. I then conducted a search on my phone for the nearest garage which ended up being about 20 miles back in the direction I had just come.
I start the car up and start off back up the mountain to the next exit. The car would barely move, getting up to maybe 15mph w/the rpms between 5-6. I drove for about 3-5 min before the rpms shot above 6 at 5mph forcing me to pull over again. At this point I start pondering AAA while doing web searches on similar situations. I come up with many similar instances but they were all discussing the code of p0741 which I did not have. Stumped I sit there for a good 20min before I get going again. Start the car up and it runs fine but being cautious I stay in the breakdown lane maintaining 40mph with the rpms staying around 2. I pull off the next exit and pop into the gas station where I buy some tranny fluid and drop a lil in. I then start off back 20 mi to the nearest civilization and a Acura stealership. The whole ride back it runs like normal, no loss of power, no rpm jump, no codes, no issue. Finally pull into the stealership and describe the symptoms to the manager and he is stumped as no codes were thrown. I then describe the same to a mechanic and he says let’s go for a test drive. He gets in and starts the car then puts it in reverse. There is a two second delay before going into reverse and he immediately puts it back in park and says I need a new tranny. I I informed him that this is normal as it has been like that the entire seven years I have had the car. He reluctantly then says he’ll take it out for a drive. We get on a stretch and he tells me that he has to get on it several times which he does. His diagnosis is once again my tranny is about to go and I will need a new one very shortly although it was running fine with no loss of power or or rpm jumps.. Being that I am directly at the halfway point between my home and my destination I ask him if he feels I will be able make it to either point. He recommends I go get some Lucas tranny oil and put it in, cross my fingers, and try to get it to either place. I thank him for his time and off I go.
It’s about five minutes to the auto parts store and the car drives again with no issues. I end up getting some Lucas tranny oil and drop it in through the dipstick. I figure the car was driving fine so I will try to make it to my destination. The five minute drive to the highway there are no issues however within one minute of getting on the highway I finally get a CEL with a loss of power and the rpm jump. I pull over and pull out my scan tool and there it is the dreaded “code of death”P0741. I resume my Internet search and start reading multiple threads on this topic with a majority of them saying I’m going to need a new tranny. I call Acura to get a quote which they tell me it will be $5500 and about four days. Seeing some of the posts that are there are potential fixes without a tranny rebuild I figure ill try to limp it the 150mi home in order to work on it there. I start up again, turn around and start off for home.
For the next three hours I drive it at 55 until the RPMs start increasing to the 5–6 range at which point the car starts slowing down and then I pull over. I wait 20 minutes or so each time and start off again. Each time only being able to go maybe 15 miles or so. After doing this several times I get to a point going through a city where I know there will be no breakdown lanes. I then throw in the towel and call a tow truck to take me the last 80 miles home. $300 and two hours later we offload the car from the truck, I pay the man, start up the car and drive it 30 feet into my garage. To my surprise there seem to be no issues at this point.As I have a back up car I then spend the next 2 to 3 weeks fervently searching each and every thread on this topic. I come to the conclusion that I will drop a few hundred dollars on the potential fixes instead of going straight for rebuild or remanufactured tranny. I determine I am going to do a 3 x 3 drain and fill of the fluid, replace the third and fourth pressure switches, and the tranny filter. I then ordered and waited for the parts to arrive.Once I received all the parts I take a Friday off so I have a three day weekend for this project. I begin with the 3 x 3 drain and fill. I decided on using the Max Life ATF instead of going straight for the Redline, Amsoil or Z-1 in case this whole project didn’t make a difference. The first drain and fill I immediately noticed a difference in the shifting. I do the second and the shifting does not feel any different from the first. The third drain and fill I feel slipping between third and fourth, and fourth and fifth. At this point I’m thinking that already this fix isn’t going to work. I however continue with one more drain and fill to use up the remaining ATF. Throughout this whole process I ended out draining and filling out a total of 9.5 quarts. I then take the car off the ramps to prepare for the next part of the project.I then jack up the car and replace the third and fourth pressure switches. As described in many of the posts this was a fairly simple job. This however finished day one of the project.On day two I begin with the transmission filter. As I remove the banjo nut and remove it to clean it I notice orange material near the holes at the end of the banjo nut that attaches to the line. I sprayed them out with some carb cleaner and they are thin pieces of hard orange plastic. Confused as to what they are I continue on with removing the tranny filter. Once I have that removed, to my surprise, I observe that one end of the filter that has hard orange plastic casing has chunks missing. It’s clear that as the filter deteriorated these pieces broke off and went into the banjo nut clogging it up. I replace the new filter and resecure it with the banjo nut.Although I think that this is what caused my issue I determined that since I’m at it I will check the linear solenoid along with the torque clutch converter solenoid as well as the solenoid (shift solenoid??) that is in front of the TCC. I check the linear solenoid tube/screens and find no debris. I then checked the other two solenoids and they were within spec for the ohms. I put everything back together and take it out for a 15 minute test drive on the highway. No issues at all w/ this test drive. I then park it for the night and start cleaning up the garage.The next day I then take it out on a 30 minute, 25 mi trip on the highway again with no issues. I make the same return trip about three hours later and still no issues. For the last two weeks I have been driving both local 10 mile trips as well as 30 minute, 25 mile trips on the highway with no issues. I have periodically checked the scanner and no codes are present.So to close out this long, long post I have two remaining things do you say/ask. 1-I highly recommend that everyone who is experiencing the symptoms of loss of power, RPM jump as well as the code of death to take the hour or so and check/replace your transmission filter. I think the filter coming apart and blocking the banjo holes to the fluid line is what caused this whole scenario. 2- for those of you that have received the code of death then completed a 3 x 3 drain and fill along with replacing the pressure switches and filter for how long has this solved the problem? I am only about three weeks in with about 500 miles and I and I’m not experiencing any problems whatsoever. Just wondering if I have really remedied this issue or if a rebuild, reman or accord V6 swap is in my near future? Any and all responses are appreciated.Once again thank you to everyone that has contributed to this site as although I am no master mechanic I am able to complete jobs I would not think possible due to the information provided here.
For the next three hours I drive it at 55 until the RPMs start increasing to the 5–6 range at which point the car starts slowing down and then I pull over. I wait 20 minutes or so each time and start off again. Each time only being able to go maybe 15 miles or so. After doing this several times I get to a point going through a city where I know there will be no breakdown lanes. I then throw in the towel and call a tow truck to take me the last 80 miles home. $300 and two hours later we offload the car from the truck, I pay the man, start up the car and drive it 30 feet into my garage. To my surprise there seem to be no issues at this point.As I have a back up car I then spend the next 2 to 3 weeks fervently searching each and every thread on this topic. I come to the conclusion that I will drop a few hundred dollars on the potential fixes instead of going straight for rebuild or remanufactured tranny. I determine I am going to do a 3 x 3 drain and fill of the fluid, replace the third and fourth pressure switches, and the tranny filter. I then ordered and waited for the parts to arrive.Once I received all the parts I take a Friday off so I have a three day weekend for this project. I begin with the 3 x 3 drain and fill. I decided on using the Max Life ATF instead of going straight for the Redline, Amsoil or Z-1 in case this whole project didn’t make a difference. The first drain and fill I immediately noticed a difference in the shifting. I do the second and the shifting does not feel any different from the first. The third drain and fill I feel slipping between third and fourth, and fourth and fifth. At this point I’m thinking that already this fix isn’t going to work. I however continue with one more drain and fill to use up the remaining ATF. Throughout this whole process I ended out draining and filling out a total of 9.5 quarts. I then take the car off the ramps to prepare for the next part of the project.I then jack up the car and replace the third and fourth pressure switches. As described in many of the posts this was a fairly simple job. This however finished day one of the project.On day two I begin with the transmission filter. As I remove the banjo nut and remove it to clean it I notice orange material near the holes at the end of the banjo nut that attaches to the line. I sprayed them out with some carb cleaner and they are thin pieces of hard orange plastic. Confused as to what they are I continue on with removing the tranny filter. Once I have that removed, to my surprise, I observe that one end of the filter that has hard orange plastic casing has chunks missing. It’s clear that as the filter deteriorated these pieces broke off and went into the banjo nut clogging it up. I replace the new filter and resecure it with the banjo nut.Although I think that this is what caused my issue I determined that since I’m at it I will check the linear solenoid along with the torque clutch converter solenoid as well as the solenoid (shift solenoid??) that is in front of the TCC. I check the linear solenoid tube/screens and find no debris. I then checked the other two solenoids and they were within spec for the ohms. I put everything back together and take it out for a 15 minute test drive on the highway. No issues at all w/ this test drive. I then park it for the night and start cleaning up the garage.The next day I then take it out on a 30 minute, 25 mi trip on the highway again with no issues. I make the same return trip about three hours later and still no issues. For the last two weeks I have been driving both local 10 mile trips as well as 30 minute, 25 mile trips on the highway with no issues. I have periodically checked the scanner and no codes are present.So to close out this long, long post I have two remaining things do you say/ask. 1-I highly recommend that everyone who is experiencing the symptoms of loss of power, RPM jump as well as the code of death to take the hour or so and check/replace your transmission filter. I think the filter coming apart and blocking the banjo holes to the fluid line is what caused this whole scenario. 2- for those of you that have received the code of death then completed a 3 x 3 drain and fill along with replacing the pressure switches and filter for how long has this solved the problem? I am only about three weeks in with about 500 miles and I and I’m not experiencing any problems whatsoever. Just wondering if I have really remedied this issue or if a rebuild, reman or accord V6 swap is in my near future? Any and all responses are appreciated.Once again thank you to everyone that has contributed to this site as although I am no master mechanic I am able to complete jobs I would not think possible due to the information provided here.
11-15-2017, 06:06 PM
#2
1. P0741 code is for torque converter clutch. It's not locking and converter is working all the time. It makes transmission fluid hotter than it should be. When you were going up incline fluid over heated. If that happens again just leave car idling in park or neutral as it will still recirculate fluids and cool them off faster (actually does it pump aft when in park?) . It's known to happen to some other Hondas , something about fluid flow under high load, I read it a while ago.
2. I would suggest using only Honda atf, never mix it with Lucas or friction modifiers. Redline and others are sometimes used as well.
3. Save money and observe. Looks like it's working fine for now. However nobody knows for how long. Accord swap is probably the best option.
4. Good find with the filter.
2. I would suggest using only Honda atf, never mix it with Lucas or friction modifiers. Redline and others are sometimes used as well.
3. Save money and observe. Looks like it's working fine for now. However nobody knows for how long. Accord swap is probably the best option.
4. Good find with the filter.
11-15-2017, 06:20 PM
#3
Cruisin'
Thread Starter
Thanks, will keep that in mind about keeping it running in neutral if it occurs again.
The Lucas was only in there for about 80 miles on the ride home and I didn’t get too much in there. It’s basically all new fluid in there now after the drain and flush. If it looks like this holds for a little while I will start mixing in the Honda fluid or redline with each oil change.
The Lucas was only in there for about 80 miles on the ride home and I didn’t get too much in there. It’s basically all new fluid in there now after the drain and flush. If it looks like this holds for a little while I will start mixing in the Honda fluid or redline with each oil change.
I’m also looking at possibly adding in a transmission oil cooler. That is the next research topic.And sorry for the original post as it looks like one big long run-on sentence. I posted from my phone and I thought I had separated everything out with paragraphs, oh well ....
11-15-2017, 07:04 PM
#4
I'm not sure if Trans cooler is proper solution. If I remember correctly it had something to do with fluid flow under high load - it wasn't going through the cooler. Something about transmission design.
But I have no idea if it applies for this car. It's more like another thought for you to research if you have too much free time.
I think that if torque converter would lock up properly, transmission would never overheat (as there is no real heat source if torque converter is locked).
I'm just throwing out ideas here, never had this problem, and I don't know much about transmissions.
But I have no idea if it applies for this car. It's more like another thought for you to research if you have too much free time.
I think that if torque converter would lock up properly, transmission would never overheat (as there is no real heat source if torque converter is locked).
I'm just throwing out ideas here, never had this problem, and I don't know much about transmissions.
11-17-2017, 07:26 PM
#5
Mr. Detail
If you end up needed another transmission and go the rebuild route, find a shop that will used the TransLab shift kit for our transmissions. Makes a very big difference in overall shift feel and consistency.
11-18-2017, 05:33 PM
#6
Burning Brakes
You NEED A COOLER on this transmission, or any transmission coupled to the J-series V6 engine, just look on odyclub.com for the Odysseys. That mountain stretch of road actually overheated the fluid, regardless of the piece of plastic that clogged some of the flow of the fluid. There is no OEM cooler on this transmission, there is a warmer however. Fluid flow is low at lower RPM, however, the cooler does help with cooling no matter the flow rate of the fluid. I'm going to refer you to a transmission expert who took data on this transmission on an Accord V6, which has a same trans as the 3rd gen TL. I run a B&M external cooler and have had it for 70000 miles now, also due to an incident during the summer 2 years ago, when I burned fluid after just 7000 miles in extremely heavy stop and go traffic.
DIY: V6 transmission cooler install - Page 3 - Drive Accord Honda Forums
DIY: V6 transmission cooler install - Page 3 - Drive Accord Honda Forums
11-20-2017, 01:49 AM
#7
You NEED A COOLER on this transmission, or any transmission coupled to the J-series V6 engine, just look on odyclub.com for the Odysseys. That mountain stretch of road actually overheated the fluid, regardless of the piece of plastic that clogged some of the flow of the fluid. There is no OEM cooler on this transmission, there is a warmer however. Fluid flow is low at lower RPM, however, the cooler does help with cooling no matter the flow rate of the fluid. I'm going to refer you to a transmission expert who took data on this transmission on an Accord V6, which has a same trans as the 3rd gen TL. I run a B&M external cooler and have had it for 70000 miles now, also due to an incident during the summer 2 years ago, when I burned fluid after just 7000 miles in extremely heavy stop and go traffic.
DIY: V6 transmission cooler install - Page 3 - Drive Accord Honda Forums
DIY: V6 transmission cooler install - Page 3 - Drive Accord Honda Forums
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12-07-2017, 10:06 PM
#9
So after 203,000 miles on my 04 Acura TL my tranny blew up... P0741 tranny code of death is no joke... lol. Good luck to everyone with this fault code! I got stranded 100 miles away from my home.. I will not recommend doing long trips with this fault present especially when doing uphill driving. Best of luck to everyone. Cheers!
12-07-2017, 10:27 PM
#10
So after 203,000 miles on my 04 Acura TL my tranny blew up... P0741 tranny code of death is no joke... lol. Good luck to everyone with this fault code! I got stranded 100 miles away from my home.. I will not recommend doing long trips with this fault present especially when doing uphill driving. Best of luck to everyone. Cheers!
12-08-2017, 08:22 PM
#12
Yeah that's true. I'm sure Acura were smart enough to figure a fix for it and make their transmission more durable and improved.. anyways I'm sure going to miss this car after having it for 10 years... very good car I must say..
12-08-2017, 08:29 PM
#13
probably around 201k... and I replaced the sensor for the torque converter clutch around 203k. but the fault just came back on after like 100 miles of driving. So I just drove it thinking I was going to get more miles out of it... but I was wrong lol.