Posted a topic about car not starting. Wtih help from here, I found that my ECU had indeed been damaged. Ok, replaced ECU, took car to the dealership. Car still won't start. I came across this online and it mimics my trouble, so if anyone has been through this and survived, please let me know:

Acura TL no start. No spark. No coil trigger signal. CKP-A & CKP-B & CMP all have good
lab scope waveforms. Tried used PCM - still have no spark.

Already Tried:
Labscope tested cam & crank sensors - good 5 volt waveforms appear to line up correctly. Have injector pulse. Have good power and grounds at the PCM. No codes stored. Installed a used PCM - same problem. Tried a second used PCM - same problem. Hard to believe 3 PCM's would have same fault.


MASTER TECH : Hello welcome to just answer I am master tech and will be able to assist you today.

MASTER TECH : does the green key flash on the gauge ? or does it go out ?

Customer : Hi, green key light goes out during cranking.

MASTER TECH : how about when the key it put in and turned on

MASTER TECH : here is why im asking. If you replaced the pcm and the pcm was not programed then the car will never start

Customer : Goes out with key on, yes.

MASTER TECH : ok

MASTER TECH : how many miles on the car

Customer : Immobilizer would not disable spark and enable injectors, would it? 77000 miles.

MASTER TECH : yes 100% it will disable

MASTER TECH : have you done a compression test yet

MASTER TECH : does this have a after market alarm system

Customer : No. The car stalled while driving. The cam & crank sensor waveforms line up, so the cam timing should be OK. No aftermarket alarm.

MASTER TECH : ok stalled while driving is a concern

MASTER TECH : lets start with a compression test this might have jumped time.

Customer : If it jumped time, then the waveforms would not line up correctly on the lab scope.

MASTER TECH : you will still get the signal as the cam would still be turning

MASTER TECH : have you checked the cam timing marks with the TDC mark

Customer : Yes, but the waveform patterns would be offset if the cam timing was skewed.

MASTER TECH : well not sure about that as we don't test these like that.

MASTER TECH : is their any code stored in the original pcm

Customer : Save a lot of wasted labor time tearing the front of the engine apart. No codes in the PCM.

MASTER TECH : hmm might have to try that one day.

MASTER TECH : can I ask how your testing for spark

Customer : I have one coil out, with the spark plug grounded to battery negative. Lab scope hooked up to one of the IGN trigger wires in connector E5. No spark, no trigger signal.

Customer : The coil has B+ and gound, just no trigger.

MASTER TECH : ok

MASTER TECH : when the used pcm was installed it will not start since the pcm is not programed to the car

MASTER TECH : this could be a pcm issue but with out having this programed it's hard to say.

MASTER TECH : on the newer tl

MASTER TECH : we have pcm issues failing and causing no starts as they loose the ground in the pcm

Customer : The used PCM was reprogrammed for this car. The grounds have been test at the ECM as well as the power inputs.

MASTER TECH : how did that program this ? did you take your pcm to them and if so what did they use.

MASTER TECH : I know their is some tools out their that will reprogram a key but not a pcm

Customer : No, I used a mobile tech who only does reprogramming for all the dealers in 2 counties.

Customer : I have to tell you. I am ASE certified Master Tech with L1. I have been in contact with 14 different techs on iATN and 2 different Acura/Honda techs at Identifix. So far no one has been able to help. I appreciate you responding, but I don't feel you can help me. I tried this site out of desperation. Thank you very much for trying.

MASTER TECH : yes I agree

MASTER TECH : this is a weird problem



Sorry if it's a bit of a long read, and whereas I didn't go through 3 ECUs, his above situation mimics mine exactly- not triggering spark. Just turns & turns but doesn't turn over.

 

Possibly the throttle body? I had an 02 maxima that the electronics in the drive by wire throttle body went bad and I had no throttle response. The maxima would start but very roughly. Maybe the Honda drive by wire is different in that if something is bad it won't allow the engine to start.

 

At this point I'm thinking that yeah it has to be something electronic somewhere, maybe a wire somewhere or something that's screwing the pooch

 

Yeah, I'd sell the car.

 

I read something about a loose injector harness ground wire being a culprit.
And have you tried the spare key?

I just went through something similar, and it turned out opposite of what you have above.
Screwed key, immobilizer set spark on, injectors offline.
If I fired a shot of ether down the intake throat it would run for a second...

 

Thanks Dave! I'll check that! I'll post with update!

edit: I don't have a spare key, only got one key when i bought it

 

I don't know if this is the same issue that member "Opel" had, but here is a thread with some info for starting issues. He has a 6MT.

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-problems-fixes-114/no-cel-ignition-799200/

 

Hmm, sounds possible. Least I have another area to check into, so now I have a total of 2 things to check. Thanks for the assist man. Hopefully by the weekend I should have some clue. I'll continue to post updates as I go.

 

Well here's an update: I took it to an old friend of mine that's a mechanic. he had a buddy of his from another shop come over with a diagnostic tool like they use at the dealership(cost him near $10k) After switching out ECUs and checking, the reason the car isn't starting is due to not receiving a signal from the crank sensor. now a brand new crank sensor was installed from the othe rmechanic shop. On top of that while he was hooked up, the ECU got hot and he saw a little smoke. So as of now he's saying there must be a break or pinch somewhere in the wire harness from the crank sensor to the ecu. So today my buddy is going to check the wires and try to locate the break/pinch.

Hopefully he'll come up with something, I'll update as I learn more so if anyone else is experiencing something similar, this may be able to help them. Oh and the guy said that I never had to buy another ECU, so the old mechanic shop really had no clue wtf they were doing, just trial an error at my expense.

 

Pretty much what a few of us told you in the other thread...

and I'm going to bet the idiot also didn't do a CKP learn procedure after replacing the sensor...

 

Nope, after the crank sensor and the car didn't start they told me that it was the fuel relay

But at least now the car is with someone I can trust, so hopefully I'll get some solid results some time this week

 

Unbelievable. Ok so yesterday my friend was working on it, got to the crank sensor and gave me a call. What did he say? "Are you sure they changed the crank sensor??? Cause this one here looks like it hasn't been touched since the day the car was manufactured!" I call the other shop I had the car in to see if they still had the "old" crank sensor. They did. Picked it up this morning and... It's the new sensor that they were supposed to replace. I didn't even ask why/how/if they ever installed it or what. I think I would've been on the 5 o clock news if I stayed there any longer so I took the sensor and left.

When my friend tested the voltage, with the sensor off it's fine, but when it's on the sensor isn't returning the signal. He checked another TL to be certain and that one does return the voltage. Hopefully this is it but I dunno, not getting my hopes up, just going to have him continue to work on it, that other place was a bad joke.

 

Update: It started!! Put the new crank sensor in and bam. car started right up.

 

Good news glad to hear your back on the road!

 

so, there was no problem with the wires? was the smoke just imagination? I just want to know in case it happened to me. thanks and glad your back enjoying the tl.

 

No the reason why there was smoke is that the coilpack was so badly damaged(melted in the chamber), that when the car was in the 'on' position, it would leech more power than it should which is why the fuse kept blowing. Once the coil pack was switched that stopped.

Now had the original mechanic not been so quick to take my new crank sensor, after changing the coipack the car would've started right up, but because he had changed the crank sensor prior to learning of the bad coil pack, he switched it back to the old one and wanted to keep the new one.