NightShark

I have the 3rd gear problem where it's notchy and hard to get into gear most of the time. A lot of time I will misshift and grind because of this. I also find it hard to get into 2nd sometimes too.

Over the weekend I replaced my gear oil with GM Syncromesh Friction Modified after reading the many threads regarding the gear problems and the wonders that this stuff does.
I'll be honest and say I don't notice a difference with the change. I think my gear problem is probably much more severe for this simple fluid change to have any effect on it.

Does anyone have any other suggestions on how I might remedy this? Without actually replacing the syncros or anything like that.

Thanks!

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

if your synchros are gone; no matter what kind of fluid you put in, will cure it.

Fix synchros

Adobeman

Thinking along the same lines as justnspace.

Curious though, what year, how many miles and what kind of driving do you do? Most of us that use the GM stuff switched over fairly early. I think it was at about 10Kmi for me.

nfnsquared

OP, are you sure you bought the friction modified version? What's the part# on the bottle?

And I agree with justncrabman and adobeman.

tndirtdauber

I think you answered your own question. If changing the fluid didn't help there are other issues. Good luck.

ZOMGVTEK

Most of the people who benefit from the fluid change only have occasional problems with 3rd gear. If you're having frequent problems with 3rd and even other gears, chances are the syncros are physically very worn. No fluid will fix a mechanical problem. You generally don't 'need' 3rd if thats the only one thats really trouble. You could just skip over it. Just be aware, skipping gears without double clutching is going to wear whatever syncro you land on dramatically faster than normal.

DMZ

I switched over at 7,000 miles and have driven 216K since! Cured my 3rd gear issues.
.
.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

be sure to regularly change the fluid!
it can wear just like engine oil!

DMZ

I change it about every 30,000 or so.
.
.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

k, just making sure!
love ya, DMZ.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

you can just go to advance auto and get the Pennzoil version.

NightShark

yes for sure it was the AC Delco Synchromesh Transmission Fluid Friction Modified. #10953509

I just bought the car and it has 200,000 KM's on it. No idea if the previous owner changed it already or if they drove the car hard or not. It's an 05 Base.

I was really hoping this would fix the problem since the symptoms are exactly how everyone else was explaining it but I guess it's probably too late for it to do anything.

erg69

What does double clutching do? I'm not being a wise ass or calling you out, just trying to get educated. I have had 3 manual cars and regularly skip gears without ever double clutching. Never had an issue.

Adobeman

Me. I double. Most commonly 4 --> 3 around town when decelerating into turns. Makes a big difference. I usually don't downshift into 2 (but definitely DC on those rare occasions) , never downshift into 1. I'll usually ride 3rd down with brakes and just come out of gear to stop. Very little coasting if at all. DC alone doesn't do anything unless you attempt to rev match during the process. That usually requires some heel toe (or inner outer foot) on the brake and accelerator at the same time. Here's a rough overview http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_clutch_(technique)

So if the OP is going to start skipping on the way down definitely wise to DC

But at 200K and GMSM FM not helping the writing's on the wall. Sorry NightShark looks like that used 05 MT is going to cost a bit more than you bargained for.

polobunny

If you heel-toe on the street you might belong on the track though.

erg69

I understand doing a throttle "blip" when downshifting to get the RPMs up. But why would I need to push the clutch in twice when going from forth to sixth for instance? Hey there is that bunny I was referring to. Happy Easter!!

Adobeman

when you blip alone you get the engine speed up but there's still more mass (shafts/gears/etc) in the transmission that you can't spool up unless the clutch is out. Double clutching let's you get that all spooled up to a matching rotation and that all helps reduce wear and gives much smoother shifts.

Polobunny- heel toe isn't just for the track. How else you gonna brake into a turn while double clutching down and the accelerating smoothly out? I know it sounds "boy racer" but seriously it let's you get through a turn while shifting and braking and never coasting at all. It's subconscious to me. Sure you can push hard like a racer if you want but even regular modest daily driving can benefit from the practice. And yes, I do push it from time to time

polobunny

Oh no, I agree there is benefits for anyone, but I can't imagine my mom trying to heel-toe.

That said, for daily driving and for most people, I think coasting is just fine haha!

WDPanda

I wouldn't listen to this guy, polobunny, regarding manual transmissions. Coasting? Really? I don't think you drive in enough traffic with crazy drivers.

"I get mail. I've said, on the record, many times, that it's a bad idea to coast downhill or up to a stop sign in neutral. It's unsafe. You need to be able to use the accelerator to avoid an unexpected road hazard; cars don't handle well in neutral during sharp cornering maneuvers when the engine isn't connected to the drivetrain.

So why on earth would you put the transmission in neutral—whether on manual or automatic—when coasting? Apparently there are a lot of people out there who think they are saving gas by doing so. They're wrong."

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/hybrid-electric/a5977/coasting-in-neutral-fuel-economy/

Driving in the rain or snow emphasizes the need to stay in gear and not coast.
Double clutching prolongs the life of the manual transmission by helping the synchronizers.
Adobeman, on the other hand, knows his stuff.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

leave your car in gear and coast. The injector do shut off. When the car is in N and costing it will still burn fuel.

Your synchronizer are probably gone. Ill give u 400 bucks for your use tranney so you can get a new one. nvm your in Canada.. damn it!

ZOMGVTEK

I don't see any reason to take the car out of gear rolling towards a stop. If you don't want to downshift, which is generally my preferred method depending on traffic conditions, just leave it in 6th or whatever gear you're in until its just above idle speed. It will cut fuel above ~30 MPH in 6th and requires no additional work or wear. Of course it will cut fuel at lower speeds in lower gears, if you're going slow or want to downshift should you need some more power available. You don't need to double clutch and heel toe all day, but taking a car out of gear rolling towards a light at moderate speed is silly.

In regards to syncro wear, the larger the rotational speed differential between the driveline and the wheels at the time you engage the gear, the larger the wear. The syncros are more or less designed to handle a worst case of redline shifts from gear to gear, whatever speed differential that is. If you come out of 1st at redline, and slam it right into 6th, not only will it probably fight you, its going to be a dramatically larger speed differential than the transmission was designed to tolerate. Of course anything other than a near impossible perfect double clutch shift is going to wear syncos a little, but redline to a heavy skip shift causes a huge amount more than normal. Doing this once in a while shouldn't be a big deal, but some people can get in the habit of doing this several times a day, and wondering why one particular gear engages so poorly.

The bits that rotate inside the gearbox have mass and are connected to the wheels. When you press the clutch in, you only disconnect the engine. The transmission still spins until you take it out of gear. After this, it decelerates, but continues to spin. If you shift out of 1st at redline, the transmission was just spinning at 6,000+ RPM. If you quickly take it out of gear and jam it into 6th, you're now asking the 6th gear syncro to slow the bits freewheeling inside the transmission down to something closer to 1,000 RPM. If you take the vehicle out of gear in 1st at redline, let the clutch back out, now the engine and transmission are coupled, but no gear is selected. You can now adjust the speed of the driveline to a touch above what you expect it to be for whatever gear you choose. For the high RPM 1st to 6th example, this means something like 1,200 RPM. You would need to wait a little bit for the engine speed to fall this dramatically. If you press the clutch in ~1,200 RPM, and then shift into 6th, the driveline should be fairly close in speed and it should shift easy with minimal wear. The wear happens when you move the shifter into gear, not when the clutch is depressed or let out, that just mostly wears the clutch, pressure plate, and throwout bearing.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

damn canadians spreading cancer again.