Hey guys I have an 05 acura tl and its out of warranty but my sparks blew on me around 88k which acura recommended to change sparks around 105k. What should I do? will acura fix it since their recommendations was not accurate and now my engine has a blown spark plug which damaged a valve. Would I be at fault? I changed my oil and every maintenance on time at a professional shop and not at acura. I heard that its a known problem but dont know if its true so anyone that had this happen can chime in on this. any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. thanks

 

the book calls for plugs at 105,,, IF,,, operated in acuras limited idea of `normal use`
If you commute or most human things,, it drops service interval to 60 for the 105 service

what happend exactly? plug dropped its electrode in cylinder?
What `known problem` are you talking about?
were you racing-high rpm a lot?

you can pull a head and have valves replaced as needed
service times are suggested only- not a guarantee car will not need things in between or early

 

It was just regular driving. Clutch is pretty much still new after replacement like a year ago running strong. Just replaced the fuel pump, oil, timing belt and everything but the sparks like a week ago around 88k on my car. Next thing you know 1 of the sparks blew and it messed up one of my valve, think number 5 valve or something. after doing all those changes i drove for about a week then I heard this knocking sound and i checked it at a shop and they said its blown.

 

plugs didn't drop it just blew I guess, and when you start it makes a knocking sound at the back part of the engine. Since acura recommend to replace it at 105k would I be at fault or would acura take care of this I am currently out of warranty, the car is 2005 with 88k. before my warranty was up acura did everything i needed, when my clutch went out i took it to acura to fix as well.

 

Negative Ghost Rider. There is absolutely zero mention of a reduced service interval for sparks plugs. Not in the 3G owner's manual. Not in the 3G service manual. There is one and only one Acura recommended service interval for spark plugs which is when a "4" shows on the MID, which seems to come around 105K miles.

Before anyone here can help you much on this, we're going to need a better explanation of what your mechanic means by "blew".

Also, are you sure he didn't screw up the timing belt install and is trying to cover it up? I find it kind of interesting that a spark plug would just happen to "blow" (something I've not heard of in 3G TLs) right after a timing belt change.

I've never seen this "known problem" mentioned here on AZine and I don't know of any such "known problem".

 

when you had the "professional" mechanic do all the above work why didn't they replace the spark plugs. Why did you have to have the clutch replaced. Since you do not go to a acura dealer for service and you are out of warranty why do expect them to correct this. I have all the service on my 06 tsx done by a acura dealer that I feel is excellent. I still have the original clutch and plan on having the spark plugs and drive belts replaced on my next service. My car now has almost 104K miles

 

I replaced my plugs at 62k and they looked like complete crap.

 

I don't think plugs are a warranty item, especially outside of 4 year/50,000 mile. Wear & Tear.

Unless, possibly (slim chance), they are part of the drivetrain warranty. But even that expires at 70k miles.


OK, looked it up:

 

I admit I go off my gen2 book and life experience- which seems to differ on some items from g3- sorry, I really am just trying to help not hinder

why do the timing belt service and not plugs then- if concerned enough to do the belt and pump...was there history we have not heard?

if done per the `105` specs, job does include spark plugs--the cheap part of the whole job!
50 bucks for 6 plugs and an hour DIY

based on many gen2 and some 3 reports, the plugs are ready for replacement after 60, they make look ok but there is plenty of wear-(ziners report 1 mpg increase on new plugs at 60)
lets not get into a plug arguement on lifespan and performance--

they wear,, and its possible,,, in the most extreme situation for a tip/electrode to come off
I have never heard of it in non race car motors- even then its more likely to drop a valve spring keeper than a plug come apart

Have to dig out the old champion plug picture guide to plug issues
found online if you try- compare pics to your plug- rich-lean-ignition-etc

OP- Have you seen the removed spark plug?
was valve adjustment done with the water pump (as if it were the 105 service)

thinking of what could possibly go wrong and be blamed on customer~

no way will acura cover this as warranty,,if 20kmiles I would fight for it--but 80???
how is it their fault--because a book written many years ago hoped things would last, or were told they would so write the book for 105- that makes it look better than other brands needing service at 100--its all marketing

a boroscope camera (dealer has one) can be used to look inside each cylinder for any damage- the truth will be known

based on gen2 if you have internal damage its cheaper to get a junkyard motor and put your new tbelt-wp etc on it and drop the whole thing in

 

Who cares if you go to Acura for service? I avoid them at all costs, they are expensive, include unnecessary service items, and are generally crap.

 

The plugs are supposed to be replaced when the timing belt is done. My guess is your shop F'ed up the timing belt, and the valve hit the plug.

You mentioned a fuel pump replacement, that isn't common either on 3G TL's.

I think you need to find a new repair shop.

Edit: And no Acura isn't going to fix it, nor should they. The car is out of warranty, and you had a major service done at an independent shop. Sounds like that shop screwed up the timing belt, and caused the issue. It's their problem, not Acura's.

 

My boot was ripped so I had a professional who worked on cars for over years which he has a certificate and works at a known shop. Since he was going to change my timing belt, which I see that it looked like it was cracking so I just had them changed it. Since the pump you would have to take the same part apart I would have them do majority of the service done. I was planning to do my sparks later around 90k.

One day I just started the car and I started hearing a knocking sound after the week I did the timing belt. So I had it checked and they said one of your sparks blew which caused damage to the valve. Told me to talk to acura since they recommend changing around 105k when I have 88k.

For the clutch I learned in this car and I was pretty horrible at it. Later within 2 years clutch went out so I had acura changed out for me on my own cost since I burnt it. after that I just took care of all the service maintenance and just commute to school and work.

So what should I do? Bring it back to acura or just fiix it. The mechanic said I would need to replace the head where the spark plug is at and 1 valve. How much would that cost to fix?

 

Hey I was trying to find the warranty to read where did you find that at? I want to read about it

Edit: If I abused the car to let people know the car would've broken down way before 88k. Everything runs strong and good till one spark blew.

 

Either you or I are/am confused. Fuel pump? Did you mean water pump instead? The fuel pump is in the gas tank.

I'm pretty sure the shop that did the timing belt change screwed it up and it's off by a tooth or two or they miss set the cam lobes before reassembly and your timing was FUBAR'd as a result. I absolutely would not be running the engine at all...

I think you need to take it up with the mechanic, not Acura.

 

sorry yes water pump. I will have a talk to the mechanic also. Would there be anyway to check that the belt or water pump caused it?

 

As far as I know, not without taking it apart or running the risk of further damage.

And no, the water pump didn't cause this.

 

k thanks for clarifying. so no other way to check out the problem, well since I had the timing belt changed wouldn't it take longer then a week for my sparks to blow? or even a day or 2?

 

Did it run completely normal after the belt was changed? If it's one tooth off, if the engine will run at all, it will have no power.

Did you see the damaged spark plug? A look at the plug would tell a lot of the story.

Once the heads are off, a look at the valve will tell the truth. If they screwed up the timing belt install and bent a valve you will be able to tell by the way it's bent. If a spark plug electrode went through there, the valve will not be bent but it will have a chunk missing around the seat or the seat itself will have a chunk missing and there will likely be tell tale makings on the piston where the plug bounced around a few hundred times before making it's way out.

If it's an intake valve and not exhaust, it could easily have been contamination in the intake. I know just a few little BBs on the secondaries of a carbureted engine makes for a nice show when the owner goes wide open for the first time. Doesn't take much to hurt these things.

This is part of the reason my plugs get changed at least every 50K. They're so easy to do, it's just not worth it to take them out to 105K and the problem associated with it.

One more thing, what are the symptoms? A dead miss? You mentioned noise. Is it a light ticking or a knocking. Does it get worse with rpm? With throttle? When hot or cold?

 

IHC, not trying to start a pissin' match here, but from what I've read, being one tooth off might hardly be noticeable.

It just depends, or so it seems. I don't think you can rule out being off a tooth just because the engine runs.

It's possible that they didn't get the tension correct and the belt slipped a tooth after it was all put back together. That has happened many a time.

If this were a chain, I'd have to agree with your statement. But belts are (seem) to be more forgiving due to smaller teeth (less spacing).

 

For the same reason I do not really care you do not go to a dealer for service. The dealer I go to is cheaper than most independent mechanics and they never tried to sell me unnecessary service items. Go where you want and I will stick with the acura dealer. Have you ever gone to a dealer (besides warranty work)

 

OP,

Don't know how much you trust this shop/mechanic to admit fault (if at fault). I'd consider having a trusted 3rd party who is familiar with timing belts on hand when/if you have the engine taken apart again (before anyone can move the belt back or forward a tooth to cover up their mistake).

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if the belt slipped due to improper tension. This fits your scenario: car ran fine for a week or so and then: blam! Everything could have been done correctly, except the tension, and the car ran fine until the belt slipped a tooth due to improper tension.

 

No. I was a mechanic for six years. Know enough about dealers and independent shops. I don't prefer the dealer over other places simply because I don't think the majority of practices are appropriate. Not to say you won't find the same thing at an independent shop. I have heard quite good things about dealerships, so really it should be treated on a case by case basis. I generally won't put my faith in a dealer though.

 

Many years ago I had the same feeling about dealers-big rip-off. I would never go to them. That all changed when I went to this dealer-They told me then not to ask for a certain mileage service-just ask for a oil/filter change and they would check over the car. With the acura they tell me to follow the maintenance minder-Over the years I have become friends with the service manager, techs, other employees and also the owner of the dealership

 

Mine failed at 55k. They actually became loose which caused my engine to misfire.

 

I agree.
In 1990 my 1981 Honda prelude overheated and the headgasket started leaking into the coolant. I pulled the head, had it resurfaced/reworked, and when I put it together I was 1 cog off. The car ran pretty good. There was only a slight miss under load when hot and the power was down a little( I thought the problem was the 3 barrel CVCC carb) . It only lasted about a week. I was accelerating on an entrance ramp when my little miss turned into a big miss. Upon disassembly I found the cam off 1 cog and a burnt exhaust valve.
I realize it was a totally different car/engine/fuel system but I can see an engine running especially when there are two cams involved and only one is off a cog.

 

There will be a HUGE difference if it's one cog off. It also depends if we're talking cam or crank. Crank will have 2 times the effect as a cam since one tooth is twice as degrees off on the crank side. With a crank triggered ignition it's not as bad as some of the older cars with a distributor driven off of a cam but still, if you can't notice a difference with a single cam being 25-20 degrees off you need to get the butt dyno recalibrated.

Yes, you will definately burn exhaust valves with the cam advanced but if his cam is off (which I doubt), we don't know if it's advanced or retarded. A good test would be to shoot the exhaust temp right before it enters the convertor and compare banks. Even at idle you can see 650+ degree temps if the cam is advanced too far.

 

was the timing belt tensioner pulley replaced at the service?
and the idler pulley for good measure
if the tensioner fails and locks up- its easy for the belt to jump a tooth/cog
In that case you are lucky to still have an engine

I always suggest that/those be replaced,,regardless of how it `looks`
in case taking tension off it and reapplying with new belt MAY cause it to fail soon!
Have seen it before and read it here on azine

 

Big second on that...I just did the timing belt in my beater Subaru, and I was one cam tooth off. It would barely run at all. I hate to think what would have happened if I was a crank tooth off...

 

When I drove everything worked great and smooth. just a week later it start having this knocking sound which is not too loud but you can hear it when you stand in front of the car. The place I brought it to is like a dealership so he was one of the people that specify in this area. He took off the head to check if it was his fault but I checked it out and he said everything seems to be aligned. So I don't know if you can say this was a defect? or the guys fault. what would be the price to change the one valve and get a new head anyways?

 

Do you mean the valvecover or cam cover? What you're describing seems to be a serious pre-ignition problem with the broken plug and knocking sound that finally showed itself. Have you ever had any fuelpump/injector issues or do you run it on regular 87 octane?

As for the guy that checked it out, you can't see anything from a visual with the valvecover off except that the cam timing is correct, unless something is broken and even then things like a broken valvespring are hard to see sometimes. Did they do a valve adjustment at the time they did the timing belt? If you can answer my other questions we can pinpoint the problem.

 

I always fill 91 never anything lower. Never had any pump issues. I will check if they did adjust it, think they did because you would have to right everything you do your belt so it would be tight and run? One spark plug blew and one piston got messed up when he checked.

 

So you're saying this guy pulled one of your heads off, checked it out, saw damage to a piston, buttoned it all back up without taking pictures or showing you and handed it back....for free? Something is seriously wrong here with this thread.

I'm done, before I get too frustrated.

 

This guys a good friend that works at a dealership so he wont jip me on it for sure.

 

Thanks for the advice and help. I'm going to the Acura dealer to see how it goes.

 

you dont have to adjust the valves to do the wp/tbelt job
Its a good idea to do,, but not the same job
lot of dealers dont bother to sell it

Some mutal parts are removed-covers mostly, for easy access to valves and to see the cam timing-
also good to remove spark plugs to ease spinning the motor, and throw the new plugs in- combined labor thinking on that~

there are alternate marks visable thru the cover to see cam marks to adjust valves without timing cover removal

 

the boroscope camera is a small flex shaft with mini camera in the end- watch on tv screen as you look inside thru the spark plug holes
Whatever has occured will be right there without question

same tool used to look inside airplane engines for damage from volcanic ash~

 

k cool I'll see if Acura would do anything first then maybe, if not ill try to look for a new cylinder head. Anyone know where I should pick up a cylinder head from if thats the only way to go?