Here goes... for the last 2 years I've been trying to figure out why my car just plain out handles sloppy after it was towed (not flat bedded) for a 100 miles, which is a long story in itself. All these problems can be traced back to after the car was towed.

Now the symptoms were, steering became very lose and sloppy, car handled like crap with crazy amount of swaying introduced, and the car became bouncy as well and also this new clunk under the drivers side floor board. All this on 1 year old TEIN SS's. So... after I had a few people check it out (including ACURA), some said it was TEINS.. which I refused to buy... so I ended up changing all the following:

1. Upper Control Arms x 2
2. Both Front Axles
3. Front sway bar endlinks
4. Both Inner Tie Rod Ends
5. Front and Side Engine Mounts
6. Compliance Bushings in the Lower Control Arms
7. 4 New Tires - Continental DWS

With all this being changed.. the car still handled and drove the same. So then I had my TEINS just replaced thinking this has to be it. Brand new TEIN SS in the car and basically the car handles the same!! Im about to punch a wall because I want that tight responsive car I had few years back and I can't get it.... so what am I missing here? Someone's gotta have a suggestions...

 

Right now I know I need to get all wheels balanced as there is a shimmy... and I need an alignment as the car is tracking to the right.. but I'm going to do this after a week or so to allow new suspension sink in. Tire Pressure is 38 PSI all around.

Right now the ride is is set to a 2 finger gap... but I have to ride around with full firmness on my EDFC just to reduce the swaying of the car in the turns. My steering is still loose and the car is fine when not gong over dips n the roads, but when it does this.. the car bounces a few more times then it should.

I'm annoyed because I just replaced the TEINS for no reason.

 

Just wondering if you've inspected your front and rear sway bar mounting points. Not the end-links (although I'd check the rear), but where the "D"-brackets mount. Probably a non-issue, but you never know.

Also, do the Tein SS re-use the stock top hats? If so, replace the bushings (2 per top hat in the OE setup). Again, probably not the most likely cause, but I'm not sure what's left.

Finally, what are you running for a Strut Brace with the EDFC? Anything? If it's the RV6 or Greddy or similar, is everything tight? No broken welds, etc?

 

hmmm....wanna sell me those TEINs you took off lol

 

I was thinking the same thing.

The towing company towed it with the rear tires on the ground and hooked up to the front, right? I'm sure they hooked onto something stupid like a swaybar or tie rod and screwed it up.

Get the alignment first. Believe it or not, a bad alignment can make it feel sloppy and give the feeling of more body roll.

 

Ok... so here's a question to both of you.... I know sway bars help exactly with that... swaying or tilting of the car to one side during sudden lane change maneuvers or even in the twisties. However can replacing a damaged sway bar help stop the car from having that bouncy/sea sawing motion type feeling when you are driving straight and there are a few minor dips in the road?

Also when I got the sway bar end links replaced in the car by ACURA.. wouldn't they have noticed any damages to the parts you guys are referring to or am I giving them too much credit?

Also... I'm not entirely sure what tie rod ends do but I do know there is an outer and inner tie rods... so which one do you think the stupid tow truck hooked into?

And IHC .. yes... the ideots towed it the way you mentioned.

 

PM me an offer and this goes to any other users that might be interested in the TEINS.... please do not post in this thread because I need this thread to get legit help, and do not want it cluttered.

 

^^ so did you have your alignment checked?

 

is this handling at all speeds, or low speeds or only high speeds?
Does the car feel uneasy like it's about to change direction at any second or does it feel like the car just doesn't want to change direction?
Does the car feel floaty like a car with a VERY soft suspension or what?
What front strut bar are you using on your car with the EDFC?

also what type of truck towed the car? One like this:


Were you also parked against a curb or in a parking spot with a car/bar/fence in front of you?

I'm thinking that if it's that type of tow truck and you were parked against a curb that the truck pulled on the front suspension and may have flexed the uni-body quite a bit. By flexing it that way it may have put a HUGE strain on the whole steering system (rack and pinion and such) an as well the upper mounts for the struts and and the subframe.

The clunking could easily be explained with a crack in the subframe or a broken weld, and as well the loose steering with damage to the steering components. Last but not least, if the upper strut bar was damaged or the mounting points for the shocks, the actual metal where the bolts attach could be flexing along with the shocks causing a floating feel.

 

Here's an update... though my ride has gotten nice and softer due to the new suspension. But it drives like its on blown shocks... very floaty and like a lexus. No the firm and exciting suspension that it should be. And I think I'm starting to feel a clunk on my floor board of my drivers side again over rough roads. Only thing left to replace is tie roads, lower control arms, and lower ball joint.... someone help... ahhhh!!

 

At all speeds but more pronounced at higher speeds.


Doesn't feel like it will want to change direction but if I take a turn at a speed that "should" be good in any other TL... I get way too much body roll.

Bingo! Rides like a Lexus... very floaty, even with my EDFC at the firmest setting. STRUT BAR = RV6

AND YES TO THE PICTURE OF THE TOW TRUCK.... and wasn't parked against a curb. The truck was able to get directly in front of my car and get it lifted. GIVES ME NIGHTMARES!

 

It sounds like a swaybar link but you said they were replaced already. It's possible the swaybar itself got broken but that should have been obvious when they did th links. You can always test by removing one of the links and seeing if you can rotate the bar. My last clunk was a loose end link that the dealer forgot to tighten.

 

The only other thing I can think of is ... I totally should've just replaced my stock top hats instead of reusing them. It was total oversight on my part. Just wondering if the tops hats or its bushings were not right would it cause these problems?

 

I can tell that on our '02, I had the same kind of floaty issues and sloppy steering. It went on for sometime. The shocks weren't bad, but they were worn.

A couple years later I had to replace the front shocks (one was blown). I also replaced the bushings in the top hats. The old bushings were like pancakes - smooshed nearly flat. I replaced those too; with 3G Type-S bushings.

The car felt like new; no more float, no more sloppy steering feel. I really do think a lot of that was the new shocks, but I also think those new bushings took it up a step to be more "like new".

IOW - imho, they are worth replacing.

 

You can get about 2" of total travel if the tophats are completely destroyed. You can actually rig yours like mine where you extend the metal sleeve against the washer so it eliminates the rubber. Handling becomes much sharper since the springs and shocks will act on the body of the car and not rubber. It will transfer almost zero extra noise but you will feel the very small bumps a little more. Over normal bumps you can't feel the difference. If your springs and shocks are pretty firm, you can probably feel the car rock a couple times when you come to a stop, maybe 1/4" or so? Firmer bushings or sleeving them will get rid of that.

It would be easy enough just to check the top nut before tearing them apart.

Just as I think Bearcat was eluding to, sometimes with suspension it's the sum of slightly worn parts that add up to the sloppy feel.

 

I really appreciate your responses and help guys...cuz I just want this fixed now.


Now these are the parts to be replaced or I should say haven't been replaced ....

1. Tie Rod Ends
2. Lower Control Arm
3. Lower Ball Joint
4. Top Hats w/ Bushings

Out of these... which one should I tackle first? I might just replace the outer tie rod ends this weekend since they are cheap and easy to do. Inners I don't have the tool to remove it. Top hats... I'm not comfortable doing that myself... so I'll have to get some help on that.

But out of these.. which one would "most probably" give me a "clunk noise", feeling of floatiness, loose steering response and also the front wheels feeling loose while riding on bumps/rough roads?

Yes this last symptom I didn't mention before because it had disappeared till an hour ago.

 

Alright just made a video and uploaded it to youtube, demonstrating the bounce test... its as if my shocks are blown but they can't be as they are brand new. And no I'm not humping my car..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_lzqpyZkeU

 

Did you check that the control unit inside is actually driving the motors on the coilovers? I doesn't look like your settings are doing anything.

 

It is cuz I can feel the slight improvement in firmness when I drive the car and the steering gets slightly tigher.. but just not anywhere near where it should be.. but its a good thought... I'll try to remove the EDFC at one point and do the adjustments manually just to rule out that possibility I guess. But I highly doubt it is. Because I was getting the same bounce on my previous TEINS as well and I didn't have the EDFC at the time and did my adjustments manually.

 

I agree with this although I'm pretty sure only the rebound damping is adjustable so the first push down will be the same but it should rise slower on the stiffer setttings.

I weigh 240lbs and I'm not exactly weak and I can barely get the car to budge 1/2". Something is definitely wrong and it really looks like the shocks first with worn/incorrectly installed top-hats being second. I would say 90% for sure it's the shocks whether it's the EDFC not working correctly or something else.

 

Can worn top hats and its bushings cause this much of a bounce?

I'm going to remove the EDFC and make the manual corrections this weekend or next week but my only gripe is that I had same symptoms on my previous TEINS and no EDFC where I made the adjustments manually.

 

That would be on the extreme end of top hats' motion. Try removing the nut on top and make sure the metal sleeve is in the bushings. Without it, you're losing a ton of stiffness.

 

I bet it is not top hats at all. These are not "wear items" on these cars, and even when they do get worn there really isn't any ill side effect. Shock tower brace won't cause these issues either.

To me it actually seems like the dampers are bad. Clunking noise + soft suspension...it is a pretty simple system but I am not seeing how it isn't shocks. OR, the EFDC motors were not installed quite right and they are not actually adjusting all the way firm. Another longshot...not likely if you followed instructions. As long as you hear the motors turning when you hit the buttons it should be fine. Maybe try cutting power to the controller and then hooking it up again to re-initialize it.

Taking all that off the table, given that you have blindly replaced a bunch of items that would not cause this issue (axles? mounts?), I would have to say step one is isolating the clunk.

The clunk in the video...is that the clunk or is that the sheetmetal flexing while pushing on the car? To get more movement in the chassis try using the door as a lever-arm. Open the driver door and use it to really get the body swinging to see how bad it is. Just pushing on the fender like that gives minimal travel and may not reveal the issue.

If you can get the clunk to come out with the car static, have your friend jounce the car while you lie on the ground and feel different areas of the suspension/chassis to find the noise. Noises always come with some sort of contact or friction you can actually feel. It is the best way to nail down the sounds.

It is only on that one corner? Do the test on both sides to see if it is both sides or not.

If it is the front, inspect the endlinks and d-brackets. If they are ok, forget about sway bar issues. If it is the rear that you have a problem with, look at the sway-bar mounting points (as mentioned). If those are intact, and links are as well, then it isn't there.


That is my shorgun of feedback for now...sloppy handling and noise...either a shock or something isn't bolted together right.

 

Thanks Marcus for chiming in... and your right that clunk in the video is just the sheet metal flexing and not the real clunk I experience.

The clunk I experience is hard to replicate with the car up on a lift. I feel it in the floor board especially when my gas tank is at 1/4 or below when driving over small bumps that make the front tire go up and down very quickly.

Now if it was the the top hats causing these symptoms I would think I wouldn't feel the clunk on the floor board more towards the top of the engine bay right?

Also anyone know what a TENSION STRUT is? Doing alot of googling...

 

It's not the proper term but it could be referring to the swaybar. Torsion spring is another more proper term. I had this same clunking in the same spot and it was the swaybar end links.

 

Never heard of a tension strut but this in my mind is most similar to what a "radius arm" is on older Civics...not applicable to this car.

 

I doubt it, mines was bouncy as hell and I told the dude at the shop to make the suspension and little stiffer it's not as bouncy now but it's better then before where I would be scraping on every freaking dip. My top mount was shot he showed me the difference between the driverside and passengerside and it didn't look pretty that's why I was having some clunk noise coming from the wheel it was the top mount rubbing up against the strut bar. I'm still trying to figured out the steering problem just like you. I Almost feel like test driving your car to see if its the same problem I'm having.

 

Also, check the compliance bushings in the lower control arms

 

Anytime your in LI let me know.


Yes these were replaced under warranty already.

 

Alright... well I'm going to test for tie rod play and lower ball joint problems after jacking the car. What's the proper way of doing this.. and how much play is acceptable and how much is not? I'll try to make a video.

Cuz I rememberdoing this before and after the car was jacked up at the jack point.. not the LCA I could move the wheel left to right (basically holding the tire at the 3 and 9 'oclock position) maybe a 1/4 to 1/5 an inch and I would hear clicking noise. I did not attempt to move it in the 12 and 6 oclock direction.

 

^^ He did that.....

EDIT: Looks like you already beat me too it....fail

 

Alright, From what I gathered this was a simple case of throwing parts into the car intil the problem could have been solved. You said the car was towed for 100 miles and since then something went bad.. My honest suggestion is I have a feeling this is a bad cradle. Is it possible that your cradle might be shifted and or damaged from the towing? Could possibly be, but someone has to measure side to side compared to either where the center bolt for control arm is to a fixed point towards those big bolts that hold the cradle in place. I would check the bolts holding the cradle as is, it is also possible your sway bar could be damaged and or shifted just in the right spot to cause that noise and reduce the handling ability.

Again, BEST solution to finding out the issue here is to have someone put the vehicle up on an alignment rack then put the vehicle up in the air with a technician either on the lift pushing the vehicle down or underneath trying to make this noise happen while another experienced technician looks for the noise. Only then will you have your answer or at least they can pin point the issue. I kid you not that noise is metal on metal binding/hitting it won't be that hard to find the problem

Best of luck, I still believe it's a shifted sway bar hitting the control arms or bottom of firewall, or a bad or shifted cradle.

 

Someone tell me what you guys think about my inner tie rods? Remember my outer tie rods were replaced and dealer said my innners were fine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi43M...e_gdata_player

 

inners are toast. Replace them and get an alignment done. WHILE on the alignment rack have them locate the noise

 

That's what I thought.. someone else told me as long as there is no play in the "in and out" direction they are still ok... but that doesn't seem normal to me.

 

I think the inner tie rods are fine as long as the dont move in and out, they only control that movement anyways when turning your wheels left and right. As far as you car being that soft, I have no clue, my suspension is stock, and even when i had a blown strut on the passenger front it was stiff as fcuk, the springs themselves wouldnt allow me to push down on the car more then half an inch. Id be scared to drive that thing with it being that sloppy, my moms intrepid is stiffer then that. And there is no way that your brand new suspension is malfunctioning like your old set. If i were you i wouldnt be doing any evasive maneuvers on the highway, wouldnt want to loose control. Also one more thing about the tie rods, they control your wheel left and right, not up and down. If you replace those it will be nothing but a waste of money. Good luck