I purchased a 2004 TL in August of 04. I love the car and it has had its fair share of rattles and one leaky oil line to the oil cooler in front. My main concern is a problem I have been working on with the dealer related to a pinging noise in the engine. I have read several other older postings related to accelerating between 40-55 mph and others similar that have experienced this as well. I can replicate the noise/ping expertly every time I enter the vehicle and now the dealer can also. I then tested several of the new TLs on the lot to see if they did the same thing, and everyone of them did. At first the dealer said it was gas and we tried every gas on the planet as well as a full drain of the tank, etc. Now the dealer is leaning toward this issue being part of the way the car runs. My concern is since it is constantly doing this and can not be good for the engine. I think the engine life will be greatly diminished or create future problems (note we also addressed the valve adjustment and no connection). Personnally, since the manual even states that the TL can sometimes be hard to start with this new generation 2 environmentally conscious engine that potentially this new lower emissions systeml is creating a situation where when the car is under slight load, it does not have enough fuel to keep from bogging down and sounds like you are trying to go uphill in 4th gear. First, I was wondering if anyone else has this problem as the dealerships in Colorado have had no similar complaints. I can not believe no one else has had this complaint as I can get every car on the lot to do it. The way I can replicate it is start the vehicle and wait until it is at operating temperature (or drive). While parked wait until the engine radiator fan kicks on (not the A/C fans, may be one in same but not with this noise). Once the engine cooling fan is on, put it in gear and rev the motor between 800 and 1200 rpm while your foot is on the brake (5AT) (just above idle, this is the best way to really here the noise but it occurs at many different speeds). It sounds like predetination or a diesel engine. It just chatters away and the service manger is at a complete loss. The dealership consults its tech line as with a lot of the issues on the forum resulting in a response of try changing the gas. I run 91 in it per recommendation, and with the advanced timing and computer assistance it should not do this (yes, I have tried the disconnect the battery and retrain). I am now at the regional rep level and will meet with him Friday 7/8/05. I am concerned that all the cars are doing this and there appears to be no fix. I did notice that another forum participant (I believe "QuartzTL.." residing in Calif posted a similar issue, so I am ruling out altitude). I really would rather not sell it but trying to get ACURA to address a potential problem with there best selling vehicle that would require a massive recall is tough. Thoughts from anyone or is it just Colorado cars? I did not use the poll feature because, it would be nice to know location as well as if it is or is not doing it.

 

I have a very similar problem with my 2004 TL.

*Purchase date 2/28/04, Northern California.
*I didn't notice the clatter the first two months I owned the car, probably because the windows were closed.
*Clatter noticable at 1700 - 2500 rpm when outside air temperature is above 60 degrees. Front passenger window has to be open for me to hear the noise.
*Top mechanic at dealer heard it and diagnosed it as preignition. Recommended a bottle of Chevron Techroline and thereafter using only Chevron supreme gas. (The Techroline seemed to have worked for a couple of weeks, then the noise returned.) He consulted engineers (in Ohio?) who supposedly had not heard similar reports.
* Rode in other TL's with service manager. He heard a different knock for a second or two under hard acceleration, and said "See, they all do it." However, the momentary knock he heard was a completely different noise from the clatter. My noise occurs even without hard acceleration. I did not hear the clatter noise that happens in my car in either of two or three other TL's I drove at the dealer.
* I agree with your concern that our engines may show the effects of this clatter/ping at some point after the warranty expires. If the damage is within the warranty period, the dealers may claim it is within the range of normal wear and tear.
*I agree there is no way this should occur given the knock sensor/ERG.

What did the regional rep say?

I am considering hiring an attorney who specializes in denials of warranty claims, getting an expert mechanic referral from that attorney, and if the expert indicates a defect that will eventually damage the enging, suing the dealer and Acura if necessary. Even if there is no damage being caused, the noise bugs the heck out of me. My old Legend engine was much more quiet.

You and I may have different noises, given onset at different rpms, but your noise otherwise sounds similar to mine.

Look forward to hearing back from you re new information or other developments.

 

Very interesting stuff.....havnt heard it or even listened for it in my car but I will once it gets back to me from the shop.

Keep us posted with what you find out.

 

Where do you live? Do you have 91 or 93 octane there?

Some states only get 91. Maybe that has something to do with it? I get 93 here in Texas and haven't noticed any pinging or detonation.

 

Where in Colorado do you live? What dealer did you take it too?
I live in Colorado and can certainly tell you a dealership in the Denver metro to avoid.

 

It is good to hear that it may not just be me requiring a hospital stay as the dealership I have been using (as well as the tech line in Ohio) say they have never heard of such a problem (I am the only one). I live in Denver and have used Mile High Acura. I am not going to sit here a just critisize this dealership but I have been disappointed to say the least. Each time I have taken it in and it has been kept for more than a day, I have been pushed over to the shuttle and told basically do not call us we will call you when it is ready (no loaner car). Anyway, the fuel I have been purchasing is only 91 octane. I have thought about trying an octane booster but later thought with the advanced electronics in this vehicle it should be able to adjust the motor to run on water. As for my visit with the regional rep, he was suddenly very busy and could not see me but said he could next time he came by (was surprisingly apologetic). I insisted on an appoint with him and a specific time and date. He has committed to the morning of July 28th. I could not believe it and voiced my opinion, but I did receive a committment (hopefully not jerking me around in hopes that I will just go away). Unfortunately, this is the regional rep and he covers all the dealerships here in Colorado. I was just beside myself so I am trying another dealership (the one my aunt uses for her RL, Courtesy Acura, hopefully this is not the one Champcar1 advises against). I called voiced my concerns and issues, to my surprise the service rep was very motivated and sympathetic. They scheduled the car to been seen within two days (the other dealer was typically a week in advance appointment time) and offered up a loaner car TL (not just a rental car neon or focus, like the other dealer once you insist on needing it). She was able to rifle off the credentials of her technical service staff and although could not guarrantee they could fix it, assured me they would beat the horse until it was dead and continue kicking it. So far this dealership is on my good side. I will still meet with Joe (regional rep) on the 28th, but who knows maybe the combined 35 years of experience across 7 technical staff can find something. JT801, I believe the noise is exactly the same. The way I described it below is the easiest way to get the noise in front of the dealer, but I never heard it in the winter (much colder) and always in the summer again while the engine fan is on. On particularly hot days, it does it at any speed. I can be climbing a slight incline in 4th (not an extreme load but some) and it will ping/clatter all the way up the incline at 30, 40, or any speed (of course the higher the speed the more difficult it is to hear). I will point out again oddly that it seems to be more prevelent while the cooling fans are on (baffled?). When you drove other new TLs did you get them up to operating temp and then under similar conditions as when your TL clatters? It was quite disheartening when I took several 2005 TLs out to operating temp and was able to replicate the sound. I will be very interested to see what Courtesy Acura will find, also Champcar1 let me know your opinion.

 

If it is preignition then running a higher octane will most likely fix the problem. I would not rule out altitude nor temperature because the issue here is " air " as well as fuel related, while they may not be the single cuase they are huge factors. Change your air filter, check your spark plugs, determine if the car is running lean, use quality injectors and fuel system cleaners. If these do not help and it is a design flaw by Acura then it seems that it is engine heat making hot spots in the combustion chamber that cuase the fuel to preignite. In this case sythetic oil and coolant additives would help if not control the problem. Worst case scenario, maybe it is Acura's way of keeping emissions down and getting a ulev rating.

 

Jteiamn - I'm sure you're right that the noise is the same. It did go away in the winter, and seems worse on hotter days. I haven't paid attention to correlation with cooling fan. When I drove the other new TLs I'm pretty sure we got them up to operating temp, and otherwise the conditions were identical.

I still can not understand whythe ERG does not prevent the ping. Anyone?

I am at sea level, so I don't think it is oxygen related. Air filter is clean. I use 91 octane, highest available in CA.

I plan to try the following, separately, in this order: 1. Bottle of octane booster. 2. Bottle of Techron on the next tank after the octane booster. 3. Synthetic oil. 4. Coolant additive. I'll let you know if any of these work. Have you tried these?

Look forward to hearing the results of your meeting with CO regional rep, though I'm not optimistic.

Any theories on why you hear it on all TL's, but no one else on this forum, besides you and me, apparently has this problem?

 

I'm in CA. From sea level to approximately 4000 SF with temps from 25 degrees to 110+- and over 10,000 miles I have heard NOTHING like you guys describe, sorry.

 

Well, interesting news today. The other dealer that I dropped the car off at may have come up with something. I was not going to mention it for fear this was not the problem, but it does sound promising. They have kept the car for two days now and have apparently ripped it apart. The tech that is working on the car sees this as a challenge and has not been consulting the tech line much. According to the communications I have received from the service manager, they discovered that apparently the tiiming belt was off by two teeth from the factory. The computer was retarding and adjusting the timing an extreme amount in order to get the car to run pretty well (as I had not noticed this issue in the beginning). I asked if this could be a common occurrence at the factory. He said based on the setup and knowing how the assembly line works, it would be quite easy for the belt to slip one or two teeth during assembly on many cars and get through final inspections as there are no triggers or codes issued by the computer (just the clatter). I am not going to hold my breath, but it is a feasible cause for this problem. It would not involve a fuel or air intake intake issue (with all the different iterations tried, both have been ruled out). I hope it is the problem. If so, I will let you know. They had to order a new timing belt that may be here tomorrow but at the latest Monday. At that point they will install reassemble and test it out. (fingers crossed)

 

NICE POST. THANKS FOR THE INFO!

 

Jteiamn -

I'll keep my fingers crossed that the new timing belt fixes the problem. Of course, it it turns out to be the timing belt, it won't explain why you think you hear it on all TL's. By the way, it is very, if not most, noticible in my car at 1300 - 1400 rpm in 2nd under medium load.

 

I have the same problem "Engine Pinging/predetination" - "You got bad tank of gas" - That seems to be the common answer from tech line.

I live in Florida and only use 93 octane from busy stations. I tried switching stations and used octane booster and still have the problem

I wonder if there is any common factors i.e. build date or alternate vendor supplied parts or something else?

 

First I want to thank everyone for their input on this matter as I believe by relaying this information to the people working on these vehicles helps them identify the issue. Now the car. The new timing belt was definitely the issue. The ping is a thing of the past. The car is in relearn mode, but it is definitely noticeable more powerful. I can not believe that this made such a difference (I am talking maybe a 10% increase in power). I was impressed with the car when I test drove it, but it is better now. Anyway, thanks to Courtesy Acura and their diligence it is repaired. The tech that worked on the vehicle came out introduced himself to me and walked me through the repair. They ended up keeping it through yesterday (that is ok as part of it was detailing the car). I once again inquired about the ease of this happening to a volume of cars. Both the tech and the service manager reiterated that it is not something that would be caught upon final inspection from factory and could easily happen (not a comforting thought). I again explained that each of the TL's I drove (keep in mind it was three new ones and not everyone on the lot) at the other dealer all performed the same way (pinging). Again, they stated it was very possible (again not a comforting thought). It actually runs much smoother now as well. When it is very hot, it appeared to run a bit rougher. Now I can not even tell the engine is running when I am sitting in the car. I still run 91 octane super in it and it is a champ. Anyway, long story short, I hope this helps others with the similar issue.

 

What a relief. Now I just have to convince my dealer to check the timing belt. Thank you for your excellent and thorough posts. They've been extremely helpful in letting me know I'm not alone, and that a solution exists. Now, if only a new timing belt could also fix the cabin rattles.

 

Is anyone reporting this timing belt assembly issue to Acura by calling Client Services?

The purpose of contacting Acura is to make Acura aware of the issue so the Ohio plant can change their procedures to prevent this from happening.

 

Pinging fixed today. Attributed to loose "heat shield" by transmission.
Service bulletin received by dealer today.

Hope this helps.
-Paul