Gil'sUA5

Recently ive noticed some pinging in my engine, it only happens when im going uphill and when its hot out. I dont care much for what caused it (pretty sure it was crappy low octane gas) but what i really want to know is if its reversible or am i at the point of no return without engine work. I always use 91 and at times 93 octane but my extremely smart wife used cheaper gas from time to time which she no longer does but the problem is now there. Anything i can do to help this? I had an 03 Maxima a couple years ago that had HORRIBLY loud pinging even when going up slight inclines so i know my 05 TL isnt that bad its just a faint ping but its there. I wish a tank of 93 and some Techron Chevron would fix it, i doubt it at this stage but will this help? 05 Base with 140k

erdoc48

If the Mrs. used low octane gas and it pings a little, why wouldn't using the proper fuel get rid of it? You can always wait til some of the existing fuel is gone, then refill with 93 if it's available, so you're putting the higher octane fuel back in. The cars today have knock sensors, so likely the worst that happens is that the performance suffers a little, but all should be well once the 91+ fuel is used.

Gil'sUA5

If this means anything in my previous car (the maxima) i switched to 93 soon as i heard the loud pinging and the pinging never went away so i hope it does the trick on my TL but cant help but be a little skeptical.

Acuraman101

Hey just my but when i had a similar situation with my tl I put octain boost in with the fuel my wife put in it. I used 2 bottles and it seemed to help, after i had less than a quarter tank i topped her off with the good stuff and thought that would do it. nope the ping was still there so i swaped out the spark plugs with a new set of iridum plugs and WOW it done the trick, no more ping and better fuel economy

Hope this helps keep us updated.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Did you notice any of the spark plugs loose?

im mentioning this because some people here a tapping or a pinging and then shortly thereafter their spark plug ejects.

OP, check all your spark plugs to make sure they are tight and snug.

Gil'sUA5

I was actually going to bring this up because my plugs havent been changed in like forever so they are definitely due to be replaced. I was thinking of just going with OEM or should i do the aftermarket iridiums? I have no problem spending the extra cash for the dealer plugs but if they're the same thing then i rather save myself the money.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^use only OEM plugs. which are NGK iridium's
these plugs are good for 105k miles.

have you gotten your timing belt changed? if so, the spark plugs should have been on the list as well

Gil'sUA5

I havent changed the T belt but i just recently bought the car about 5k miles ago and now im at 140k so does this mean that it was most likely changed already? Unfortunately if my plugs need to be changed then im guessing most likely my t belt wasnt done but if the previous owner didnt do the full 105k service then it could be that the t belt was done but not the plugs. Wish there was a way to check this.

Acuraman101

When i pulled them they were all SUPERMAN tight lol i had to use a cheater pipe, i also went with the stock iridums, the old ones had alot of build up and hard deposits never seen any plugs build up like this and still run ok ish,

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

so, do you have history on the car? your blurb wasnt really clear.
has the 105k service been done on your car?
if yes, and you want to know if plugs have been done, simply pull a plug.

Gil'sUA5

I dont have the history on the car so i do not know if the 105k service was done. Is there anyway to confirm if the T belt has been replaced?

mnm27mnm

i don't think so, i might be wrong but i think you are going to have to take it out and check it for wear and at that point minus well change it.

Gil'sUA5

Anybody know for sure?

dannyz

Regarding the timing belt, you might ask your local Acura dealer to pull a maintenance history for your car. (Nissan can pull this nationally, so I can't imagine that Acura can't). Chances are better than even that if completed, this maintenance item would have probably been done at an Acura dealer. I know of no way of knowing whether someone else did it, or not, unless you look at it, and it's not an OEM part.

I've owned many Hondas, and I have learned to take my timing belts well beyond the standard replacement recommendations (this is just my preference) knowing there's lots of safety margin built into their maintenance, and I have never had a problem. But at 140K, I would personally be getting nervous, and seriously thinking about replacing the timing belt soon.

As far as pinging goes, you car should not be pinging. I'd personally put in a couple tanks of the best gas you can find (pure 93 gas, with no ethanol if possible, I find this at BP, and other stations at pure-gas.org ), change out your plugs for stock NGK Iridiums (not that expensive), and maybe try one bottle of Chevron Techron gas additive. If the pinging continues, you have another, larger issue that needs to get diagnosed.

Hope that helps!

johnny3

Make sure your s. plugs are the correct ones. Remove them while the engine is hot, if that doesn't fix it check to see if engine is overheating.

I hate cars

You don't have to use iridium plugs. Iridium is used to advertise 105,000 mile tune ups. If you're like me and you don't mind changing the plugs every 50,000 miles, regular $2 plugs are fine.

Removing plugs from a hot aluminum headed engine is not advisible. Installing plugs in a hot aluminum head is really not advisible.

There are a ton of other things that can cause pinging. I went through a long troubleshooting journey before I fixed mine.

Gil'sUA5

What ended up fixing it? And yes i know ive seen plenty of people screw up the threads because they remove and install spark plugs while the engine is hot.

I hate cars

There were several things that helped but one main problem. I bought the car new in Dec of '05 and it ran great. The first summer I noticed just a little surfing which is usually due to pinging and the ECU pulling timing and then putting it back in. It wasn't bad enough to hear it most of the time. I put it on a scanner and verified the ECU was pulling timing and it showed around 6-10 degrees of knock retard which is too much and on the audible threshold. Next I wanted to make sure it was real knock and not a bad motor mount letting things clang around or a heat shield setting off the knock sensor so I ran some 109 octane unleaded fuel which got rid of the knock, telling me its real.

I first tried a colder heat range on the plugs since it was operating in Vegas and Phoenix which didn't help. I tried some fuel system cleaner on my practically new car that's always been run on premium fuel and it did nothing as expected. I was trying to get the easy fixes out of the way before digging deeper.

I tried some other things with varying levels of success up until I installed the Sears Diehard Platinum battery. The car was transformed. It drove like it did when new. As temperatures got hotter power fell off but it was a normal drop off like all cars do in the heat and the surfing was gone. The I noticed a little surging here and there and the pinging was back but not as bad as before, not even close.

Then as luck would have it my alternator went out around 113,000 miles. It took a week to get a new alternator in so I was charging the battery every night or two and driving to work on the battery. The pinging was back. So the alternator comes in and I install it but it got me to thinking about how sensitive this car is to proper voltage. I tested for voltage drop in several spots and found that I was losing over a volt from the alternator output to the positive post of the battery. In this car, the charging wire from the alt gots to the fuse box and then to the battery.

I noticed my new alternator was getting hit very quickly and you could hear that it was under load, probably full output all the time. When the fan would kick on it would dim the lights pretty good. I knew something was wrong and I had little time to find the problem before this alternator was toast so in desperation I started the car one morning after sitting all night and ran my fingers along every wire in the charging system looking for heat. The charging wire was a little warm and as I neared the fuse box and my fingers touched the connection it burned the crap out of me and I've never been so happy for the pain.

I disconnected the wire a d cleaned it up really nice. I noticed the problem seemed to be the crimp so I recrimped it and reinstalled. Problem solved. The car drives like it did when new. No audible pinging even on 105 degree days. My lights no longer dim when the fans kick on. My system with potentially can draw 2400w (it's mostly in the front stage I'm not a huge bass head) sounded more open and dynamic and after a 30 minute drive I parked it for the night with a smile on my face. Even better, in the morning I had forgotten, I was not thinking about the work I had done the day before. I was t even fully awake but it turned over so much quicker than normal it got my attention so it was t the placebo effect.

One thing to remember, we have 11:1 compression and regular port fuel injection. These cars will show some knock retard on a scanner on 91 octane but it should never be audible.

The reason I decided to write about how I got to the solution is to show that its not always straight forward and that you should make sure the electrical system is in tip top shape.

O2 sensors are another possibility. If you can get it on a scanner, get the long term and short term fuel trims and report back

I forgot to mention that I had good results when I blocked off the EGR. It will throw a CEL when the ECU does not detect flow but it also helped part throttle power and drivability. EGR dilutes the intake charge to lower combustion temps to lower NOx emissions. It also hurts power and is the main contributor to intake manifold and throttle body gunk. It's not a bad idea to block it off. This will not help your pinging problem but it made my car surge less and feel more responsive at part throttle.

Gil'sUA5

Thanks for the info, today i added the techron chevron and filled the tank with 93 which might help although i havent got a chance to drive the car uphill yet. Next im swapping out my plugs. Im thinking your situation is something few and far between which doesnt mean its not something that i shouldnt look at in my own vehicle but i'll slowly make my way through the checklist until the pinging completely goes away.

I hate cars

Mine isn't that rare. Others that have had the problem have had the problem cured by replacing the battery.

Gil'sUA5

I wonder if replacing my battery would be of any benefit in my situation. Thats something more expensive that i wouldnt want to do unless it actually made a difference.

dcmodels

The 20 oz bottle of Techron PLUS must be used, not the smaller 12oz bottle, and definitely not the Techron EFI (electronic fuel injector) cleaner. The PLUS contains twice the level of cleaners as the EFI bottle, which is why the PLUS is to be used only every 3K miles and the EFI every 1K miles.

Only the PLUS is strong enough to clean the valves and piston tops of carbon, if that is what is causing your pinging. This is according to the bottle descriptions, as well as the conversation I had w/ a Techron tech phone line.

pohljm

Highly unlikely there are carbon deposits enough to raise compression. I have never seen anything like tha in these motors.

I hate cars

These cars produce almost zero carbon deposits and no intake valve deposits. When I did my valve adjustment at 113,000 miles, the piston tops were shiny and the intake valves and bowl area in the heads looked like a brand new engine that had never been run. If there's a problem that a fuel additive could fix related to detonation it would be dirty fuel injectors.

I wouldn't replace the battery, not yet anyway unless you have other reason to think it might be getting weak. It doesn't hurt to check the connections though.

If you're not the original owner, make sure the plugs are the correct heat range and read them so you know what's going on in the combustion chambers. If you're unsure, take a picture of them and post on here. You can tell a lot by looking at a spark plug.

How long has it been since you put the 93 in? These engines actually benefit from the higher octane, even going from 91-93. You will get a small improvement in mileage and especially torque with more octane. I'm guessing if you downshift to a lower gear when pulling a hill it stops pinging, right?

Gil'sUA5

My pinging is 80% gone after a tankfull of 93 octane and 1 treatment of Techron Chevron. My next two tankfulls will be with 93 octane then i will go back down to 91 and hopefully that will keep the pinging away. This is all without changing my plugs which i havent done yet.

dcmodels

But you probably always use a top-tier gas, and the correct octain - some people do not - and it doesn't take very many times with a really cheap gas (with low detergents) and low octaine, to produce carbon.

And if the injectors can get *dirty* then so can the valves, in my opinion. But either way, dirty valves alone could cause one or more cylinders to run lean, and ping, as you indicate.

JMO

Gil'sUA5

Exactly! You will have little to no carbon deposits if you bought the car new or with very low mileage and have always used premium fuel. I bought my car with 130k miles so needless to say i have no idea what octane the previous owners have used.

I hate cars

You still won't have carbon on the backside of the intake valves from regular fuel. To reduce performance it would require more carbon than could ever be produced in 500,000 miles.

Octane makes no difference in carbon buildup.

Injectors use very small orifices than can be plugged even by varnish. It won't affect intake valves, the car will see the junkyard before intake valve deposits become an issue. Detergents have a much larger effect on the fuel system.

I hate cars

Octane makes zero difference in deposits. The fuel itself keeps the intake valves clean. It's a non issue but feel free to take a look for yourself. Pull the upper intake manifold and I guarantee the bowl area will be spotless.

dcmodels

Against my better judgement, I will try again - I did not state clearly what I meant.

True, octane itself has no effect on carbon deposit creation - but I have read that many brands of gas uses less detergent in the lower octane than the high-test - and sorry, I cannot provide a link. So a non-top-tier gas, plus a lower octane, will contain less detergent, and lead to greater creation of carbon deposits.

I freely admit that I do not know how a TL engine compares against other engines or brands of engines, with regard to engine deposits caused by use of a particular brand or detergency level of gas.

My basic point was that if a non-top-tier fuel can increase the level of engine deposits in *most* vehicles, then it seems likely that it could also happen to a TL engine.

Perhaps the TL engine really runs so clean that non-top-tier gas is not required - but it must be the only engine that does not. Plenty of brands of engines *do* require top-tier fuels, in order to prevent engine deposits.

dcmodels

OK, here is a link I found with a quick search, although the test itself seems less than scientific:
http://www.standard.net/topics/business/2011/05/23/detergent-levels-vary-fueling-differences-gas-quality

But I have read other more clear statements to the same effect, but I cannot provide a link.

I hate cars

You're completely right. Higher octane usually has more/better detergents. I hear a lot of people say that low octane burns different and causes carbon buildup which is untrue. That was the only point I was trying to make.

I rarely go into enough detail because it seems like I'm always posting from my phone now. What I should have mentioned is the carbon buildup on the back side of the intake valves is from the EGR and PCV and not from the fuel at all. These deposits also do not cause pinging because they're outside of the combustion chamber. A great example would be to google direct injection intake deposits where there's no fuel hitting the valves or port and you will be amazed at the amount of carbon buildup. The fuel alone is enough to keep the valves clean. The detergents primarily affect the fuel system and secondarily some claim to help clean the crank case and intake tract post combustion via the PCV system. I'm not sure if that's completely true.

Like you said, top tier is always a good idea and will help reduce deposits. The main point is they will have little effect on intake valve deposits but will affect combustion chamber deposits and fuel system varnish and deposits, especial injectors. As someone that bought the car new and has run only Chevron and Shell with only 2 tanks ever of regular fuel in 122,000 miles, I could not believe how incredibly clean everything was, even the piston tops were virtually carbon free. A lot of that has to do with the TLs ECU and fuel feedback control via the widebands and a very short rich on startup time.