rets

Thanks for keeping us updated.


I didn't mean new/better tires would get rid of this "specific" vibration. IMO, I'm lucky with my car and I do feel "less" vibration when getting the new tires (not EL42s).

mwm

I've had my 04 5MT for almost 3 weeks. It has 2300 miles on it. I am experiencing the same vibrations most noticably in 5th gear and overdrive between 53 and 65 miles per hour. It is somewhat diminished if I downshift to 4th. I had a similar issue with an early 80's Chevrolet Caprice (Diesel) engine. It really feels like a chug, chug, chug at a high rate of speed, almost like the engine is about to shift out of overdrive. It is most noticable on an uphill incline with the engine under load at about 1700 RPM.

djnman

I have an 04 AT, 2 weeks old and 406miles with the same issue. On my car it is noticeable in 5th gear and feels like the car is lugging down. This occurs between 50-65 miles per hours. I have had the tires rebalanced and the issue is still there. Hope someone can advise us of the fix.

KawBoy

I have the same issues ('04 A/T) since day one (1200 miles now). I am scheduled to bring the car back to the dealer (third time) this Friday (provided Ivan doesn’t come this way). So far I have been told that this is a "characteristic of the car", which I don’t buy. If this is what I am going to hear this Friday, Lemon is on the way.

rets

At least, I know a few ppl here don't have this vibration...

http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91499


So this mass production technology is tricky...

GTFISH

Meet with a district service manager and he said that there is a harmonic vibration issue with 04 TL's that has been fixed in 05 models and that Acura is working on some sort of fix for the issue. We are giving it a few weeks and then will re-visit to discuss Acura trading me out of this car for a 05 model.

rets

Very interesting note. Why Acura cannot fix it for those later build 04TL (July/Aug/Sep) but 05TL since 05 is almost identical to 04?

I hope he isn't just trying to shut you up. Please let us know more update if possible. Thanks.

And, I wonder if this issue could lead us to get new car since this is quite common for lots of 04TLers. Except you have some other issues in his list, otherwise, Acura will get overwhelming calls or requests soon. Thanks for sharing this with us.

Davidoconn

I will be next in line to get a new one if that is the truth. I have given up on trying to get the dealer to fix mine. They placed new tires on the car, even though the original tires only had about 600 miles on them. Still the same exact problem as before.

GTFISH

I didn't get that imperssion that he was trying to shut me up as it was a very civil conversation. He didn't give me any idea as to where the problem was either.

Not sure I understand your second paragraph?

rets

Sorry. If Acura could trade you out of your 04TL for 05TL due to this only reason, tons of ppl here will calls Acura to request the same thing.

I was thinking you have other issues for that district service manager to check. And, you may have some serious combination of vibration from tires/cars/exhaust, so your case is more speical. I just want to make sure that your case isn't only caused by merely one factor, "harmonic vibration".


IMHO, I just don't believe Acura would make any swap plan for this harmonic vibration.



My car has no other vibration but only this "harmonic" resonance from the exhaust.

GTFISH

OK. My car is perfect other than the 40-60mph vibration. Problem is (and one of the reasons I think they are being accomodating) is that I have been in three times and after a fourth with no resolution I could lemon law the car. By trading me out they at least have a chance to keep my money with Acura. If they lemoned my car I could walk down the street to the Infiniti or BMW dealer if I choose. I also know that having a good and caring dealership service manager helps tremendously.

ne-fl-tl

With VIN 9xxx, I'm too having a vibration problem. The original 4 PVC tires were balanced and later replaced with TU2. Each time the vibration was worse than before. The dealer has said after 2 times there is nothing they can do and I have to deal with ACS. I finally talked to ACS today. A Jeremy Birkinshaw said there was a known vibration caused from a lockup torque converter problem and presently there were no known solution. He didn't seem to think it was a problem the problem is known, even though cars with the problem are being sold. He said the problem has been around for ~ 8 months and is a "known characteristic". After work, I went to a Firestone dealer who replaced the 2 TU2 tires with PVCs to see if it would correct the problem. The fix may have helped ever-so-slightly, but the problem still exists. My goal for the rest of this week and next is to have the dealer sign a letter clearly saying the car has been in 3 times, the problem still exists and there is no resolution. Hopefully that will make lemon-lawing a bit easier. <vent> This is supposed to be a near-luxury car. And why am I having these kinds of problems? I would have expected them in a lower-class (price) car... </vent>

GTFISH

Demand (either thru the dealer or ACS) to speak to the District Service Rep. I would politely ask for an appointment the next time he/she is in the dealership. From my conversation with my DSR today it doesn't sound like it is one mechanical part that is causing this problem or it would have been recalled/replaced already since the fix is in the 05 TL.

rets

GTFISH, you're luckier than most of ppl here. Unfortunately, lots of ppl here all ever request to fix that problem, and no dealers think it's Lemon-related issue and hardly to get touch with District Service Rep or manager. Someone reaches that level of personnel, but they said it's characteristic of Acura.


Do you have very significant/serious vibration during that range? If so, maybe that's why.




(I'm not sure if Sherlock's Maxwell has merely this issue or has other issues together, but he's the only one I know who is pretty close to get his new replacement soon.)

GTFISH

My car does vibrate significantly but not worse than others they have seen according to the dealer. My wife is hardly a car person but it is noticeable to her, FWIW. Again, I think my progress in this matter has been due to my dealer and to my polite persistence.

Brokedoc

I suspect that there is some truth to this. The reason I say this is that the 05TLs are gaining 1 MPG for the HWY rating. HP rating is identical. There must've been some sort of modification in the driveline to change the fuel economy on the hwy.

If they opened up the exhaust to change the resonance pattern, the HP ratings should also change. I checked the gear ratios on the 04 and 05 MT and AT and they are all identical. One can only guess what they did to make the MPG improve. Maybe it was a typo?

Maybe there's a good reason Acura couldn't fix the problem mid-year. Correct me if I'm wrong but with the way that the govenment/EPA certifies MPG ratings for a model year, the manufacturer cannot change the engine/driveline/exhaust in the middle of the model year unless there's a safety issue because it would affect the certifications?

need4spd

Rets, don't forget me in this equation.

rets

No way to forget you, my old friend... This delicate issue always reminds me of your case way back to Oct. when we got our cars.

need4spd

Glad to know I am not forgoten!

xboylive

this is a very very worth while thread .. can it be put at the top of the forum (sticky maybe) >> for all to easily see until we get a solution....

xboylive

also curious as stated above "A Jeremy Birkinshaw said there was a known vibration caused from a lockup torque converter problem and presently there were no known solution" ... so this vibration is only with the ATs .. if this a true statement ??? ANYBODY ?? any manuals with vibrations ??

xboylive

some more 2 cents (convert is between .. engine and tranny) ... sooo ... At higher speeds, the transmission catches up to the engine, eventually moving at almost the same speed. Ideally though, the transmission would move at exactly the same speed as the engine because this difference in speed wastes power. This is part of the reason why cars with automatic transmissions get worse gas mileage than cars with manual transmissions.

To counter this effect, some cars have a torque converter with a lockup clutch. When the two halves of the torque converter get up to speed, this clutch locks them together, eliminating the slippage and improving efficiency. SO MAYBE WHY RPMS/SPEED PLAY A FACTOR !!!! ... MMMMM .. anybody

rets

I'd suggest to wait for a while. This isn't the new issue, many of ppl have this since last Oct. Unless we get more confirmative info/answers from Acura, we could stick it at that time.

KawBoy

I just spoke to the service director at where I bought my car. This is what he told me:

- Regarding the vibration on the tires, especially because it is worse at the first few miles/cold tires, there is nothing we can do as we have replaced the front tires once. Replacing them again will not cure the problem, so we will not do it.

- Regarding the drive train vibration, this is a known issue which has no cure at this time. There is nothing we can do here also.

I asked him to give me a letter with both statements, which he has agreed.
When I first test drove the car, I didn’t feel any of these problems, therefore I want a car matching what I had experienced (the car I test drove is not the car I received). I am sure this is not going to end, but I will try at least to get a new set of tires, see if I can get rid of the tires problem. As far as the drive train goes... I will probably have to live with it.

rets

I like to record his wording, too.

Vanwall

Update on my car being checked by the dealer on Wednesday. Nothing was done. They drove the car and said that is normal for the car. I have explained my position with both the service manager and the salesman. I am now waiting on a response.

I believe my problem is the tires. I have been reading all the posts I can find on vibration and I believe that the tires are my problem.

This really bugs me. The last thing I want to do is get in a pissing contest with the dealer.

I'm going to start a new post asking what tires people are happy with.

Ron A

Don't forget to start it in the Tires, Wheels & Suspension subforum.

ne-fl-tl

With the dealer saying this (the vibration) is normal, can you infer that an absence of vibration is abnormal? If vibration is normal, why bother to balance the tires or worry about the tires and wheels being round...

KJSmitty

The dealer is instructed by the manufacturer to tell you it is "normal", or a "normal characteristic of the vehicle". That is why you hear/get this statement so often. Lemon Laws in each state are slightly different, but if you take your case to the BBB and they know the manufacturer is calling it a normal characteristic,,,, your case goes no further. Why? I don't know, but it's a loop-hole for car manufacturers. I found this out the hard -long way with a previous 2004 Maxima.
I have flat spotting, minor rattles and some very minor vibration over 70 with my TL. My 04 Max would down right shake you silly over 64 mph. Tire swapping (lastly to Michelin Pilot Sport A/S) and numerous balancing did nothing.

Suspension components on todays vehicles are very sensitive. Any minute amount of tread or weight issue from the tire will cause a shimmy/vibration. I truly feel the minor vibration my TL has at 70+ is the EL-42's. Will new, different tires fix that? Odds are against it. Tire manufacturer's have quality control and lousy "within spec" issues too. The fact is, "stuff" is manufactured for expectation levels based on 80% of consumers. We complainers that make up the remaining 20% are the minority. It's less costly to deal with us than it is to better manufacturing processes and product quality.

As they say, its just business.

Keep fighting for what you know is right.

xboylive

more 2 cents ... I am not a mech.. but why not get the car up to its shaking point (LOL) then drop it in neutral ... if it is the tires .... should still be shaking

xboylive

I notice the car does not shake under acceleration .. even past the questioned areas, its not until after you stop the major acceleration .. ie torque .. clutch .. etc .. true for the other shakers out there ? anybody

Vanwall

I have found the vibration hard to define. I agree it is most noticeable when you back off after acceleration. I first noticed the vibration on my TL on the ride home from the dealer (the car was new 1.7 miles). I thought I would vary the speed and go between 5th and 6th. I noticed that every time I passed 62 mph the vibration would start. I have also noticed that if I drive a steady speed the vibration is not as bad but it is still there (again 62 to 75 mph). The vibration is most noticeable at 74 mph (my cruise speed).

My concern is that it is more than tires. If I go and buy new tires and the problem is still there this will give the dealer something else to point to. It's the tires that YOU purchased that are causing the problem.

When I searched the forum for similar threads I read one about properly torquing the lug nuts on the wheels. What ft/lb should the lug nuts be torqued to? I have a torque wrench and I can do this at home.

xboylive

manual says 80 ... dealer told me 85 ... but I now have them at 75 .. which has eliminated most of my vibrations .. still some shakes ... i can run 0 - 85 most of the time now without issues (I have nitto 235/35/19s)

TL n Sin City

I'm glad that this issue is still being discussed in this forum. Our TL also has a vibration problem. This happens at normal driving speeds, 35-55 MPH. We spoke to the Dealer about this months ago, and the Service Rep mentioned that Acura is aware of the problem, that it is Transmission or Driveline related and that Acura is working a "fix". Has anyone else heard the same? Our purchase was made in late May ( Ordered, not off the lot ).


Owners of a 04 TL, Anthracite, 5AT w/Nav

Tread

My reginal rep told me the 2005 has this fix, but there will definately be NO fix for the 04's -

rets

You know I will be very pissed about this...




Also, since 05TL Auto has 20/29 EPA now, (better than 04TL Auto's 20/28), is this just the simple tolerable testing error? Or this possibly means this vibration fix improves its EPA?

But, why 6MT's EPA decline? (from 20/30 to 20/29)


Edit: Not sure about EPA stuff, Acuranews and Acura.com all state the same numbers (20/29)...

rvmeush

So I guess that vibration will be a "characteristic" of an 04 TL, but the 05 will not have the benefit of the same "characteristic". I'll be very annoyed if Acura takes that stance also. Perhaps there is a "group action" lurking in there somewhere.

KawBoy

You can count me in for a class action.

GTFISH

This is what I have said all along. They nor I know what is causing the issue but it is not the tires. Mine is not rpm dependent but speed dependent. It occurs in 5th, 4th or 3rd gear at the 45-65mph range.

cullal

My car was check by the dealer on Friday / Saturday for the vibration between 55-65 mph. They came back and said that the car is within "normal operating conditions"... They went through the usual round of suspects .. balancing the tires, torquing the wheel lugs, alignment, brakes....

I am worried that the cause of this vibration is not the tires but something else...