DeathMetal

iTrader: (2)

Well, I got home early from work today and I was hoping I'd be able to bang out my brakes likety-split, but it has quickly become a real nightmare. It seems as though any bolt on this damn car is seized with the power of a Greek God and despite all mortal attempts (impact gun, propane torch, PB blaster), I cannot break the passenger side 20mm caliper bracket bolts free.

That being said, I am facing the very real likely hood that I am going to be driving around with only a partially completed brake job until I can get access to some real tools on Monday.

That being said:

(1) Has anyone else experienced a profound level of difficulty in removing the caliper bolts?

(2) Is there any ill consequence to be had by a partially complete brake job? (i.e. front driver only, OR front driver + rears only) Bear in mind, this will only be for a day or so, maybe 100 miles tops

Thanks, guys. While I love my car and modding my car, performing routine maintenance is quickly become a gut-wrenching, extremely discouraging experience.

SpiderX1016

Same thing happened on my Civic.

Get a breaker bar or a ratchet with a cheater bar and keep tightening it and then try and loosen it.
Do it over and over, it came off finally.

If your really desperate, mix 50/50 ATF and Acetone. Just clean up the mess afterwards.

trancemission

Spray some kroil on them and let it sit for a while. Can you see the back side where the bolt comes out? I think they're threaded all the way through. If so get some kroil back there as well.

Then when you're ready to take a whack at them put a little engine oil on them....

The kroil is a penetrate and the oil will help prevent gouging on the way out.

avs007

What kind of leverage your got? For the front passenger side, I cranked the wheel all the way to the left... Then I used a "Serpentine Belt Remover Tool", which is essentially a 3ft long bar with a 3/8" drive plug at the end, so you can use it like a 3ft long socket wrench.

What kind of impact wrench were you trying to use? Cuz a long time ago, when I got stuck on a caliper bolt, I tried to use an electric impact wrench, but found that to be mostly a junky toy... I used the 3ft long wrench, and got the bolt out.... Fast forward many moons later, when I got a 26 gallon air compressor, I found when the impact wrench gets "stuck" on a stubborn bolt, I just crank the pressure up to 100psi, and the bolt will succumb to my impact wrench...

avs007

It get's easier once you start getting stuff done yourself. For example, when I have the tire shop install new tires, it always seems like only Zeus himself could remove the lugs... Now I always hand roll my wheels into the shop, and I mount the wheels my damn self at home... Now it always seems easy to remove my wheels when I work on my car, since the lugs are always torqued to spec.

By the way, when using an air-impact wrench... Make sure it's oiled... A while back I thought my air-jack was busted, becuase it was struggling to raise my car... Then I noticed it was low on oil, so I oiled it up, and it lifted my car with ease....

i_love_cars

iTrader: (1)

^^ this.

I had the same problem on my Accord and then on my TL. Breaker bar (and potentially a cheater bar, or the BDP (big damn pipe as I like to call it)) is what you need.

I'm a little biggity-bitch (I have no muscle) and with a 2 foot 3/4" drive breaker bar I was able to bust loose the hub nut on my buddy's Buick and my TL last weekend when we were doing our brakes (and his wheel bearings) no problem and let me tell you that thing was LOADED with rust.

Best 20 dollar investment I have ever made was a large breaker bar.

avs007

If you're in a hurry, and don't have any of these... A 5/8" spark plug socket, will fit over the end of your standard ratchet... Then just attach as many extension bars as you got.... Sort of a poor-man's breaker bar.... I've done that before, until I got around to getting a the serpentine belt remover tool...

DeathMetal

iTrader: (2)

avs, I've got a junky toy gun, not worth a damn with receipt in hand...it's going back tomorrow. Great idea on the tires!

I am going to allow some penetrating oil to sit overnight (the garage smells like a PB Blaster bomb went off) before I even bother attempting this again...so in the morning, it will be off for a double espresso, a breaker bar, and maybe a quick prayer.

If the breaker bar doesn't do it, f00kin nothing will. I just finished doing weighted dips with 155lbs strapped around my waist on Thursday and compressed the driver side caliper by hand...but these damn bolt have pwn3d my ass something feirce.

Thanks for the grat advice, guys...more tomorrow...and hopefully good news, to boot!

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

It's safe to drive the car as long as the other bolt hasn't been loosened. The worn pads will be fine even with new ones on the other side.

bzyrice

iTrader: (10)

ooh I hate when this happens.. seems to happen to me all the time also.. seems to me that there is never an easy mod.. something always comes up!! argh.. my taillights for example!! I will be tackling my breaks and rotors soon enough as well and ALSO my Timing belt.. but I will have a mechanic friend helping me with that one..

Good luck man! I know that tomorrow will be a good day! Probabaly pop right off lol..

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Say...DM...if I recall correctly, don't you have a 6 speed?
If so...there's no bolt you need to take off...just knock the two pins out from the outside. I'm assuming you NEED to do your fronts...your rears aren't done yet, are they?

PS...I know you're a freak about your writing so I'll assume you know this...but it's likelihood. Isn't it? Dang...it looked weird now when I wrote it. lol.

01tl4tl

after the PB has done its job- try Tightening the bolt in question slightly
Even use a wrench on it and bang with hammer to send vibrations thru the crud to dislodge it
Now turn left and should come off

DeathMetal

iTrader: (2)

Now...it's on to the next nightmare: the rear rotor screws

ray6712

use an impact driver and plenty of pb blaster, when you are done put antiseize on the rotor srews if you reuse them

DeathMetal

iTrader: (2)

Alright, on to the next issue (grrrrrrr)

Are the screws for the rear rotors ABSOUTLEY critical? I have arguments on both sides about this...I really don't thik they are coming out.

01tl4tl

you can drill them out with a carbide tip bit and leave them off
Its just to hold the rotors on while the car is moved around factory without wheels

01tl4tl

Impact Screwdriver makes fast work of stuck parts
same thing as above- try to tighten so it breaks the bond then loosen with ease

DeathMetal

iTrader: (2)

HOT DAMN! THANKS!!!!

DeathMetal

iTrader: (2)

In other brilliant happenings, I forgot to disengage the e-brake when taking off the rear rotor...this does not look good. Any idea?

I hate cars

Yes, the aluminum caliper bolts are actually the easiest to remove. Use a 7/16" drill bit and all you drill out is the head. It falls off in 5 seconds of drilling. Quicker than removing a normal screw with a screwdriver. The key is to use a large drill bit that's going to knock the head off, not a small one that's going to drill through the entire screw.

I hate cars

I can't tell from the picture, did you pull one of the shoes off of it's mount?

DeathMetal

iTrader: (2)

Ding ding ding It's back on, but with this crap

DeathMetal

iTrader: (2)

Dear God, working on these brakes is a pure nightmare. Now the fucking nut to the brake line stripped.

I love this car, but the bolts are seriously of POS design.

Anyone who can hime in about my hand brake issue, please do.

nfnsquared

Were you replacing your front rotors or having them turned? If not, there's no reason to touch those bolts.

click this for p-brake service manual scans

click this for picture of p-brake, #5

DeathMetal

iTrader: (2)

Changing the rotors.

nfnsquared

Be sure you use the service manual torque setting when re-tightening those bolts. You don't want them coming loose, just ask Elegant Type S:

Near death experience due to loose brake caliper

Brembo - 125 ft-lbs
Non-Brembos - 79.6 ft-lbs

You didn't say, but if you didn't use a Torque wrench to tighten, I highly recommend going back and checking with a torque wrench.

DeathMetal

iTrader: (2)

I don't have a torque wrench, but everything is over-torqued. We use torque wrenches ALLLLLLLL over the place at work (assembly plant), and while I'm not saying I have a 'calibrated touch', I can absolutely guarantee nothing is coming loose. Excellent read, though, scary shit. Thank-you for the heads up.


Ok, so back to the remaining question: Does anyone forsee any issue with the busted spring? I ordered a new one, but it won't be in until next week. I am guessing that this is just going to result in the e-brake not engaging at the rear passenger rotor?

DeathMetal

iTrader: (2)

Hmmmm, on second thought, I am going to verify the torque value at work on Monday.

nfnsquared

Yeah, I would for safety (not tight enough) and for convenience on the next rotor replacement (if you went to tight, it might be a bitch to loosen).

As far as the spring goes, that's the lower return spring. Don't quote me on this, but I think you'll be OK. I believe worst case that side may not engage the pads fully against the drum and/or you could have some noise/chatter from that side. Here's a link for reference:

http://www.loadrite.com/pdf/LoadRite...DrumManual.pdf

Is there no auto parts store that has that spring in stock? What about pulling one from a salvage yard?

DeathMetal

iTrader: (2)

AGREED. I added anti seize to ALL the bolts, I am not going through this hell again.

I think you're right. The left-hand side of the drum seems a bit loose, I think I am in for a very annoying car ride the next few days.
Damn. I don't know how on earth you came across that doc, but that's awesome. Thank-you.

I had considered that, but they are going to have it in on Wednesday. Hopefully I won't have to make more desperate measures, it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Thank for all the input!

I hate cars

I can't see the picture well but if it's a return spring it may feel loose right now but the shoe will drag on the drum. More than likely the worst thing that will happen is excessive wear and heat and posibly a clatter, but I wouldn't drive it without return springs if you can help it.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

just installed a wilwood bbk on my 04 and the instructions say to torque the bolts on the bracket to only 40lbs with loctite. then it says 35lbs for the bolts that hold the caliper to the bracket and use loctite. Does this seem really low?

I hate cars

It depends on the material, bolt size, expected torque, thread pitch, etc. It doesn't sound abnormal or anything. When I was chasing headgasket issues at the 700hp mark and stock gaskets I quickly learned that using oil under the head of the bolt at the same torque wrench setting increased the clamping of the bolt significantly. Usually the manufacturer will specify to use a lube or not (loctite is a lube) but this brings up another point, always use the correct washers. Increasing or decreasing friction at the head of the bolt will effect it's clamping force significantly when torqued to the same torque.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

IHC..I had to buy some addtional washers in order to shim the caliper correctly. They are only grade 5. Instructions stated to use the addtional washers that came with the kit but there werent enough. Should I be concerned?

I hate cars

I would worry more about why you had to use the additional washers lol. As long as they're roughly the same type and you have enough thread engagement it's fine.

DeathMetal

iTrader: (2)

+700 posts and you feel the need to hijack my thread? GTFO, dude.

DeathMetal

iTrader: (2)

Argh, yeah, it's the return spring. Ok, crazy question time - if this is only a return spring, is there any reason I would not be able to use some sort of other mechanical means to keep the drum retracted and simply avoid using the e-brake until the new spring arrives?

libert69

iTrader: (7)

lol stfu and relax..it all relates to brakes

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

How about both of you relax? okthxbye.

I hate cars

I've done it before. Since my other car uses drums on the rear, I've gotten used to replacing springs when I do the shoes. I admit I've used generic springs from the local hardware store in a pinch. It worked so good that it's been in there for a few years.

You could use a thin guage wire and wire it out of the way, just make sure it can't come into contact with the drum and make sure it's thin enough that if you have to use the brake in an emergency the wire will break and let the parking brake do it's job.