chrissys aspec

my wife drives a 2006 6mt Tl aspec . she always has a reputable local mechanic do oil changes , and she just had one done a few weeks ago ,well last Sunday she calls me at work and said car died and lost power steering , plus making weird sound from engine ,so she takes it to shop,on Tuesday I stop by shop and check on car , mechanic said cant find any thing wrong slight noise in top of engine thinks its carbon build up ,puts some sort of carbon cleaner in it and says take car , so wife takes car, doesn't even get 1mile and brings car straight back to shop,i go back to shop to hear noise for my self.mechanic says it don't sound good and go ahead and start it ,so I do and let it run for 5 sec and turn it right off and it sounds terrible like a sneaker in a dryer ,

chrissys aspec

car has 80000 miles on it , does Acura sell crate motors or do I have to by from junk yard , shop is pulling oil pan on Monday ,so just trying to get ahead start if it needs new motor ,thanks DAN

chrissys aspec

any help on replacement motor would be great , do I rebuild ? how much $ ,do I buy from junk yard ? , how much $ ,does Acura sell crate (new) motors ? how much $ , hopefully its something else but just trying to gather info , thanks DAN

Majofo

at this thread.

Mechanic doesn't even give you a reason for a blown engine, you want to replace it.

Project_CLean

iTrader: (2)

Whoa,easy there DAN. How about this reputable mechanic gives you a proper diagnosis?

Just a question: was there any oil in the car? Does your wife or yourself properly maintain the 3G TL?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

whats wrong with the original engine?

JuicyLarry

Is this guy the same mechanic that you take the car to for oil changes? Did he give you any ideas as to what caused the engine failure?

chrissys aspec

OK thanks for the replies , yes wife maintains car on time , yes this is the shop that just changed the oil 2 weeks ago , mechanic called today and said motor spun 1 main bearing and 3 rod bearings , I am having car towed to Formula H in Middletown NY ,all they work on is Honda's and Acura for last 25 years , also 1st mechanic said there was oil in car he saved it for me,

Majofo

Had the oil changed 2 weeks ago + spun bearings.. ding ding ding.. we have a winner.


I don't know all the details, but assuming no other factors, I'd have the shop pay for a new motor.

flyromeo3

Isn't' that a symptom of an engine lacking oil?

did the shop tighten the oil drain bolt upon last change?

chrissys aspec

they said there was oil in the engine , they are not taking the blame for this ,but I feel it was there fault if for no other reason then these motors are not known to have major problems ,that's why I purchase Hondas and acuras

I hate cars

You only spin a rod bearing from lack of lube or a serious over rev and in our case there would be bent valves from the over rev.

No engine will ever spin multiple bearings without a lube failure.

They can't diagnose it as a spun bearing without a tear down. It should have a very solid knock, the kind that makes you afraid to stand next to the car. There will be a horrible random squeaking. It will get much worse as the oil warms up and under load. Why would you not check the oil level yourself before they had the chance to cover their tracks. Take an oil sample now and send it off to Blackstone to see what traces that find, who knows, I've seen transmission fluid put in the engine by these places.

Upon teardown, loss of lube is probably the easiest thing to prove. Instead of just laying down, have a 3rd party tear it down. Keep the oil filter and check it for signs of collapse. Make sure pictures are taken of everything including the oil pump. I have a lot more to add but typing from the broken screen of an iPhone is going to make me go crazy.

chrissys aspec

of course I wish I had checked oil level ,I can give a bunch of excuses but I just didn't , trust is not always a good thing , I am having oil sample checked, over rev ? don't these cars have rev limiters ? low oil or no oil shouldn't a light have come up on the dash ?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

they do have rev-limiters on UP shifts only. it will cut fuel at 7100 or 7200 on UP SHIFTS!!

if you mis-shift going from 5 to 2 instead of 4, you will over rev the engine.

nfnsquared

Yeah, if you indeed had zero/very low oil level you should have had an "oil pressure low" light. From what I gather, the Honda low pressure sensor sends a signal at 4-5 psi. For this reason, I'm not yet buying the no oil theory.

Project_CLean

iTrader: (2)

^Good point. But he wasn't the one driving it,it was his wife. Also, is it our 3Gs or the newer 4Gs that shut off automatically when there is lack of oil pressure? I remember someone telling me something about that , i just can't remember.

Comptechtl2367

Sounds like a oil issue for sure, ether it was low or the oil pump failed. By taking it to the same person that did the change it gives them a chance to fill the oil back up, run it, and then drain it showing you metal in the oil and claim that they filled it to the correct level. Ether way it is always cheapest to replace it with a used engine. I would find a good low mileage engine and replace the timing belt and water pump as long as its out.

YeuEmMaiMai

fuel cut = rpm >7500 regardless but mis-shift to a lower gear and clutch out = boom if you are over redline

Project_CLean

iTrader: (2)

any updates OP?

I hate cars

My rev limiter kicks in around 7,100rpm, definitely not 7,500rpm.

The revlimiter works no matter if it's an upshift, downshift, or in neutral. Anytime the engine speed exceeds 7,100 (or whatever) the engine is essentially off. Downshifting to the wrong gear will mechanically overspeed the engine so even though the ECU has shut off the injectors/spark, and the engine is technically off, the engine is still mechanically linked to the wheels and will still over rev.

An over rev will be stored in the ECU. A lack of lube will be painfully obvious when the engine is torn apart. There's no low oil level indicator, just a low oil pressure light. In theory you could have just enough oil to make the pump cavitate, pushing air and oil through the system and still maintain the 4psi oil pressure light trigger point.

chrissys aspec

thank you all for the good info ,its a expensive lesson to learn , car was hauled to formula H today , they will know something Thursday ,but they already seem to think low or no oil , but I will have more info Thursday plus what my options are and how much $, I will post then and look forward towards AZINE fan club to help me make right choice ,DAN

Project_CLean

iTrader: (2)

Anxious to hear the diag.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

interested in seeing what they come up with

YeuEmMaiMai

^ same here

94eg!

Current price for new OEM short-block assembly (lower half of engine w/ pistons & crank, etc) from OEMAcuraParts.com. Might even be able to get free shipping with coupon code SpyHunter. This part number is from an 05 6MT. I don't know if others are different:

http://www.oemacuraparts.com/parts-c...nsmission-assy
10002-RDA-305 GENERAL ASSY(DOT) $2,185.41

Comptechtl2367

Ether way it sounds like you will need and engine. If i were you I would start to source a good used engine through Car-Part.com or local yards. If you source the engine you can avoid the 20-30% markup the shop will charge you for the same engine!

Project_CLean

iTrader: (2)

^Definitely OP, spend some time searching. Or start now even. Unless the shop is charging storage fees.. then idk.

I hate cars

What pisses me off is what mechanic is stupid enough to hear an engine noise and think its carbon causing the noise. First off the noise is 100% impossible to come from carbon buildup and even more impossible that the engine could stall because of it. Second these cars produce very low amounts of carbon deposits in the combustion chambers. My pistons were shiny at 113,000 miles. Third, they did a top engine cleaner that could have caused the fatal problem you have now and they did it for no reason. If they added it to the oil too, and its probably a solvent like Seafoam there's your spun bearings.

chrissys aspec

I have been searching for motors on my own ,trying to have as many options as possible , 2006 motor with 80k for $795 ,1 year unlimited miles , I will let u all know what Formula H says Thursday

Comptechtl2367

That seems like a great deal and the engine will have similar miles that your old one had. Good luck and keep us posted!

chrissys aspec

sorry i have been away from my desk for 2 days , Formula H contacted me about motor , once they took oil pan off they agreed with 4 bearings shot, probably due to no oil, so they found 3 motors 1st 47 k for $2275 ,2nd 98k for $1605 , 3rd 85k for $1245, any choice its $1780 labor and $980 parts , the 3rd motor I found and told them about , and it was $795 my price , if I by it they add 20% more for labor , I am calling him today at noon for price on clutch ,is there anything else I should be asking ?????

Project_CLean

iTrader: (2)

Why would they charge you more labor? You're supplying the part. Sounds like a scumbag mechanic who probably scrwed your engine up in the first place.

nfnsquared

Dude, it's a different shop...

I hate cars

Oil starvation is painfully obvious when you pull the rod and main bearing caps. The bearings tell the story and its not subject to interpretation, a lube failure leaves a very specific pattern in the bearings. Unless they find an oil pump failure or pickup tube leak or collapsed filter you should be going after the original shop to pay for this.

Can you post a picture of the rod and main bearings?

Right now I feel like there's not enough info. The engine should have had a leak down test performed before removing it from the car. That way if you find that it ate a couple bearings but the crank is ok and it passed a leakdown you would be paying for a $150 set of bearings and not a longblock. The proper steps were completely ignored and expensive assumptions were made. It bothers me that the new shop said its PROBABLY oil starvation when any competent mechanic should be able to see if it was oil starvation in 5 seconds of pulling the bearings. At least get pictures of the bearings just in case there's any legal action in the future and for yourself, you don't want to trust this shop when maybe the bearings look fine and it was misdiagnosed.

Majofo

Are you saying, price of engine + $1.8k labor + $1k add'l parts?
..and if you bring an engine in, labor is $1.8k*1.2 = $2.16k?

Fuck that.. regardless.. if the mileage / age of the engine is high, do a timing belt service while it's out and easily accessible and keep your old engine. The heads alone can fetch some coin.

Comptechtl2367

You are getting ripped off. Take the car to someone who wont charge you some bull shi* 20% fee because they are not making money off markup on the engine. Shops like this piss me off! Straight Greed.

This is why I love knowing how to do everything on a car myself.

I hate cars

Exactly. I bought my turbo car when I was 17 and took it to the dealer to have some engine related problems fixed. The car was 10 years old at the time and the dealer had never worked on one and gave it back after having done nothing besides keep it for a couple days and a diagnostic fee that my father got refunded. I didn't know much about cars but at that moment I vowed to never have to rely on anyone else to work on my car again. I started spending time under the hood teaching myself how it worked, figuring out that if I make a vacuum leak in the line going to the wastegate I could turn the boost up. A few blown headgaskets later I realized I needed the fuel to go along with the boost. A blown engine later I figured out that I needed octane too and knock monitoring. It's too bad the internet wasn't around back then in the mid '90s but I got a lot of hands on under the hood time and made a lot of mistakes.

The crap mechanics and especially dealers pull is unbelievable. They charge too much, they make the customer pay while they throw parts at a problem instead of properly diagnosing it, and they cover up their own mistakes to try and get the customer to cover the bill. I love going to shops and playing dumb and asking dumb questions to see if they try and take advantage of me and feed me BS.

Majofo

yes.. 100%..

chrissys aspec

thank you all for the good advice , my wife and I were stuck needing the TL back asap , we were borrowing friends car ,so here is the invoice for used motor and new clutch ,,,
TOTAL $5043.56 ,20hrs labor $1780
upper gasket 30.25,gasket manifold 28.02,s/plg (6) 121.08,gaskt head cover 16.64,timming belt 63.90,tensior 131.20,idler 51.53,adjuster 116.58,h2o pump 153.03,thermostat assy 37.95, blt washer(16x49)18.98, air cleaner 27.71, belt comp39.73,oil seal 11.97,clutch set 363.93, bearing 50.28,coolant 19.67 used motor (85k) 1247.50, FLYWHEEL 707.87, oil18.35, oilfilter 7.04,washer .35 plus tax 409.89 for a grand TOTAL of $5454.70 paid in full , lesson learned check oil weekly !!!!

pohljm

well the good news is its back and has a new timing belt and complete clutch, thats gotta be worth $2500. Did you not attempt any recourse with your original mechanic?