MrX123

I get in my car last night and notice that it's hard to engage gears.....then after about a half a mile I can't even shift gears, had to leave it in 2nd to get it back home. It would slip out of gear if I revved it (w/o touching the clutch) The clutch pedal is gone, like the feeling, flat to floor. Now I don't know WTF is going on here, b/c when a clutch goes bad it's a gradual thing, the car was running flawlessly until last night. I don't really abuse the car either, but I can tell you the clutch has been very tight, the same ever since I bought the car a year and a half ago.

Assuming this is the clutch, how much am I looking at here? And since it just kinda *BAM* went, does anyone think the powertrain warranty is gonna cover it? Or maybe some other part went that caused it. It's only got 64k on it, and I'm gonna beg and plea for some goodwill from the dealer. Still, it's frustrating. I'm not a mechanic but I don't understand how the car is fine, and then the next time I get in it basically undriveable.

nfnsquared

Not a clutch expert by any means, but sounds like bad master cylinder.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

We have a self adjusting clutch, that wont show symptoms till the day it dies.

I bought my clutch set at acuraoemparts.com for $250.
then had a local mechanic install it for $400.


Just saw nfnsquared's advice, did you check the fluid level in the master cylinder?

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

It's much too early it seems, for it to be the clutch.

If your clutch pedal goes to the floor with no resistance, it could possibly be either the clutch master cylinder or maybe the slave cylinder.

This is purely speculation, of course. Sorry this happened to you.

MrX123

Thanks for the replies. I'm no mechanic, but I don't think it's the actual clutch either. Like I said, I don't abuse the car, but it will bark the tires into third all day long. I know that's contradictory, and I don't do that (like, at all), but I'm just trying to illustrate how "fine" it was, and now I can't even drive it.

Master/Slave cylinder covered by powertrain warranty?

MrX123

Not yet, but there is no fluid underneath the car where it was parked before this happened.

jungy4

Sorry this happened to you. I don't mean to make you upset by asking you this, but you pre-rev before downshifting and let off the clutch when you are sitting at a light, and things like that right?

MrX123

Lol, yes. And I'm not saying I grandma it everywhere, but I wouldn't say I abuse it, either. I just don't know WTF is wrong, and I really don't have the $2k (?) this is gonna cost if it is the clutch.

RainSupreme

What does pre-revving before downshifting do?

MrX123

It puts less stress on the drivetrain. Ever hear of rev-matching? Basically you want to rev the motor to where you're gonna end up RPM wise once you shift.

But I'm not a happy camper here. I bought this car specifically bc I wanted reliable transportation, it's dark outside and I tried to look at the fluid, but couldn't find it. Got in, pedal still goes flat to floor and won't come out of second gear.

ez12a

the proper thing to do when downshifting.

I'm surprised people dont know this.

Nissan developed an automatic system that does this for their 370z.

Fluid is under a cover at the upper right part of the engine bay (car facing you). Remove the cover and you'll see the reservoirs.

MrX123

And not only that, but they know I've been experiencing the 3rd gear TSB, so I suppose I could go the "Well, you're taking the tranny apart anyway" route. They changed the fluid about 10,000 miles ago and it went away mostly, but it's happening alot more now. I am on very, very good terms with the dealer, so we'll see. But I'm frustrated.

RainSupreme

I mean I've heard of it and heard people doing it, guess I just never realized it was benificial

I have an 08 Type S and I actually noticed that the rpm's jump up a little in between down-shifting gears, thought I wasn't completely taking my foot off the gas, is this a feature they have or am I just seeing things?

ez12a

its not really a feature, but the fly by wire hanging on to the throttle after you lift off..it's more of a drivability issue than a feature.

the RPM jump is due to the clutch being disengaged while the system is still applying throttle (your foot off the gas). I've started making it a bit of a habit of getting off the gas a split second before i touch the clutch.

leedogg

The way I view it, when changing gears, any extreme differences btw gears will put a lot of stress on your tranny, so by revving your gear up so when it engages the difference in speeds arent as extreme, it reduces this stress. e.g. when using engine braking and you hear that really loud whine (down shifting without rev matching), thats a lot of stress on your tranny.

MrX123

Bump.

legendbliss

bump what? everybody stated their opinion on what might have happened.

MrX123

No, not really. A few did (which I appreciate), and then it got OT about rev-matching, and there are plenty other members who can also help me out who know lots about this stuff but haven't been on yet to see it.

SouthernBoy

I'm trying to make sense of your description at the beginning of this thread and the best I can come up with is this. You described two separate and distinct problems. One, your transmission is slipping out of gear when the engine is revved. And two, you have lost any sort of feeling of a normal clutch action with the pedal and it tends to remain on the floor when depressed. These are two different issues and since the clutch and transmission are distinct and separate components it looks like your clutch is the more immediate concern. Right?

If the clutch is acting as you have described, the first thing to check would be the fluid level. Next would be to suspect the master or slave cylinders are failing. One way to know if it is the clutch would be to test for slippage. This is very simple and you should know intuitively how to do this. If you do not, find a level piece of road or parking lot, get the car going fast enough in third gear for the engine to be turning around 3000 RPM. Then apply full throttle while at the same time applying the brakes enough so that the car will not increase its speed. Then just note whether or not engine speed suddenly increases. If it doesn't, your clutch is not slipping. If it does, it is.

Next is the transmission issue. This statement has me baffled.

"It would slip out of gear if I revved it (w/o touching the clutch)"

Was the clutch engaged or not? If it was engaged, you would not be able to rev the engine unless the clutch was slipping. And if it first popped out of gear as you added throttle and then the engine revved, you were either not fully in gear or you have a problem with it staying in gear.

My guess from what you have told us is that the problem is with the clutch control system (hydraulic). So check this out first.

SouthernBoy

For those who have raised the question about rev-matching, here's a brief definition.

Rev-matching is a technique whereby engine speed is raised during the downshift (throttle blip) in order to match friction disk speed with the speed of the engine's crankshaft. Remember the crankshaft is attached to the flywheel and pressure plate and the friction disk is attached to the transmission input shaft. The result of this technique, if done well, is a significant reduction in clutch wear. This technique can be taken another step further by double clutching.

Double clutching is a technique whereby engine speed is raised during the downshift (throttle blip) along with the speed of the transmission input shaft to force this shaft to match the speed of the lay shaft within the transmission. This is accomplish by momentarily engaging the clutch at the same time the engine speed is raised when you pause in the neutral gate during the downshift. The result of this technique, if done properly, is not only a significant reduction in clutch wear but also a significant reduction in synchronizer wear.

Hope this helps.

MrX123

Clutch fluid is full.

MrX123

Talked to my friend the service manager @ Harper Acura; obviously, the car isn't there, so he can't be 100% sure, but he said it sounded like the master or slave cylinder. He said he can't remember seeing a clutch go bad this early on one of these. Now, are these covered under warranty? I asked him the same thing, and he said he'd just have to "run it through, see what I get, and you know I'll do whatever I can to take care of it."

I just hope and pray it's one of these things, and that said parts are covered under my powertrain warranty still.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^ a clutch can go out at any time......

improperly operating a clutch can cause it to pre-maturely wear.
a properly operated clutch can last the life of the car.

MrX123

I don't abuse/slip my clutch. I rev-match on downshift. There is minimal drivetrain shock, ever.

How much less of a big deal is a master/slave cylinder job $ wise?

nfnsquared

Don't know, but MC will be more than SC. You're probably better off letting the dealer figure this out (assuming warranty. If no warranty, consider a Honda dealer or indy shop). You might want to read this thread:

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...aster+cylinder

MrX123

Thanks. Like I said, I've had ALL work done there and spent pretty a penny, so I will be asking for some goodwill help if it comes down to the worst. I just am weary about letting someone else do it cause apparently there's some special tool you need to get to it that'll ruin it if you don't use it.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Had my clutch changed at an indie shop.
the clutch is better than when I bought the car!!

MrX123

Holy shit everyone, it was the clutch and they're gonna goodwill it!!!!!! $2200 job for free! I know everyone calls them stealerships, and I'm not necc. disagreeing, but b/c I always have my car serviced there and am on good terms w/ them, I'm saving over 2k.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Did you buy your car brand new? meaning were you the only one who operates the clutch?

MrX123

Nope I bought it w 48k. A woman drove it though, no offense to any ladies. It is strange though, b/c the clutch was so tight, and then just bam it went out. $2200 job for free.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

as said earlier, we have self adjusting clutch..
so what you felt is correct.
the clutch will feel fine until it finally poops.

MrX123

Still though....a Honda? Kinda disappointed, but I'm sure as hell not complaining. Anyone in the Knoxville area, talk to Richard at Harper.

killersrt

That's what makes me so nervous At about 78k miles now, with two previous owners. Could go in 10k miles, could last another 50k miles, who knows. I just pray for the latter

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

What do you mean, a honda?

MrX123

I bought the car because Hondas never break, relatively speaking. Sure the dealer is goodwilling it, but 64k miles for a clutch?

mnm27mnm

Yeah bro i bought a 05 Acura A-Spec,6 speed with 62,000 miles. 4 months after i bought it and 3,000 miles after my clutch went out, out of nowhere. Came to a stop and tried to downshift and my clutch felt like a super stiff spring. Had my mechanic check it out and yup it was the clutch. I had to pay $225 for the clutch and $250 to get it put in.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

you are missing the point.
the clutch is a wear and tear item. it doesnt matter if it only has 64k, as the previous owner might have fucked that shit up.

the Honda engine will last 400k+
If the clutch was operated CORRECTLY it could last the life time of the car. BUTT as you found out, the lady didnt know how to drive.
Resulting in premature clutch failure.


its awesome that they are goodwilling it, most members are not as lucky as you.

I just went to an indie shop and changed the clutch, I didnt want to hassle with the stealership.

nj2pa2nc

Glad you included the no offense-As a female I have owned numerous Manual transmission vehicles. never had to replace a clutch.

SouthernBoy

Don't kid yourself with this. They can break just like any other mechanical item. As for 64,000 miles from a clutch... that's way too little mileage to get from a clutch. You should expect three to four times that.

MrX123

Yes, I was not trying to offend any females.

But the strange thing is, when I bought the car, it was absolutely flawless. No door dings, no curb rash on the rims, it was stunningly perfect. Stunningly. Guess she didn't know how to drive it.