TL-evateYourRide

I own an '07 6MT Type S with just under 122k miles. Lately after going through a couple quick shifts to speed up in traffic or an on ramp or something, I've been noticing the clutch pedal getting stuck part of the way in to where my next shift feels like I'm pushing the clutch a lot shorter distance to the floor. I last had the clutch replaced at 68k miles. A couple months ago I noticed a bit of shudder right at the end of letting out the clutch to engage the next gear and eventually had my mechanic (who only works on Honda's and Acura's and for nearly 30 years now) drive it after a few weeks of it and he said the clutch felt great. I have since made sure I take make foot completely off the pedal (vs even resting it on there slightly in between shifts) and have not noticed the shudder since but am noticing this issue now. My mechanic said he has never heard of that before and eventually I'll probably have him look at it. Any input or ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!!

vpasla1

did you replace the flywheel along with the clutch at 68k?

TL-evateYourRide

I'm not sure about flywheel, the invoice show a "clutch set" and labor for clutch disc, pressure plate, release and fluid bearings were replaced.
Also, I just popped the hood to check the alternator because battery light came on, and I'm pretty sure the alternator is bad after checking. However, there is an odd smell coming from the engine bay, reminds me of the smell of an overheating car but all fluids are good as is the temp reading on the temperature gauge of the car so I'm guessing it's something to do with the clutch as well.

twokexlv6coupe

I too am having an identical clutch pedal issue and just like you it's only after quick, aggressive shifts. For instance I do a spirited 2-3 pull, then leisurely shift 3-4 and I lose about half the pedal travel on BOTH engagement and disengagement. 131K miles on mine, original clutch.

My brother was the previous owner of mine for 100K miles and right before I bought it he was toying with the idea of deleting the clutch delay valve on the slave cylinder. We wound up having a major PITA with I think it was a circlip, so we didn't wind up doing it, but I'm almost positive this is my (and your) problem.

BROlando

Do y'all still have all the hydraulic fluid left in the reservoir? Or is it leaking? Is the fluid old?

It could also be a slave or master cylinder issue.

Worst case scenario....the clutch splines and release bearing were lubed with the wrong grease and/or the release bearing guide is worn out --if the car has a removable one, you're supposed to change it when you do the clutch.

6spd-GERCO

I had my Clutch master cylinder (CMC) return spring break. It would sometimes go to the floor and have a shorten travel, I replaced the CMC and dissected the old one and sure enough the spring was broken in multiple places. Maybe it's this? I would definitely check for leaks like Brolando suggests.

Also the CMC on the TL has a check valve, on top of the Slave cylinder check valve. There are 2 check valve in the clutch system

racerock

Exact same thing just started to happen to me... Bought the car 1.5 years ago and went through it then doing a lot of maintenance including Brake/Clutch Hyd Fluid change
- Bled the system and actually had to take the slave cylinder out to remove the piston as the bleeder valve area was so clogged (nearly black fluid) had to manually use a small drill to get the gunk out. cylinder looked pretty good where the piston seal was
- Need to check fluid level as perhaps it was briefly losing fluid - seal could be going bad
- Thought maybe something was up with the delay valve

6 speed had a good point there with the return spring. THough in my experience, the pressure plate tends to return it back to at least the regular pressure point.

TL-evateYourRide or twokexlv6coupe - did you ever fix yours?
Thanks.

WDPanda

I believe it is the self adjusting clutch mechanism causing this. It doesn't mean the clutch needs changing but after all those miles it's at a point where it behaves that way.
Once you do a high rpm shift (6-7k), for whatever reason the next time you push the clutch in it will be halfway or so than nornal. But when you release it, the engagement of the next gear will be almost instant. This definitely helps in 5th and 6th gears on the highway where you don't want to ride the clutch. You can get rid of it by pumping the clutch or double clutching but I would just note it in my head and time the rev match so I can drop the clutch faster. The clutch delay valve seems to make it worse but you can mitigate that by dropping the clutch faster but I still recommend removing the delay valve on your next clutch job.
A New clutch does indeed get rid of that sympton but if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

twokexlv6coupe

Yup I did inadvertently fix this issue. I had the engine and tranny out for a completely unrelated reason and before dropping it back in I decided to replace the clutch and flywheel with new LUK OEM units, since everything had 141K miles on them. Even tho there were zero signs of the clutch being on it's last legs. Now I can do quick 2-3 shifts, and have full pedal travel from 3-4. As Panda said, it must be something with the Self Adjusting Clutch.

And here's the kicker; I have a brand new master and slave (with the delay valve deleted) in boxes in my trunk, waiting to be installed. I'm still on the original master and slaves, with 146K on them.

I know it's the exact opposite answer racerock wanted to hear, but the good news is we know what causes it

racerock

Thank you for the follow up. Get this:
178K Miles and it could be the original Flywheel, Clutch, Pressure Plate, M Cyl and Slave Cylinder...
- One owner had it until about 145K, seemed like all dealer maintained, Aspec installed at the dealer - Check in with the dealer no clutch change
- I have looked all over for evidence of bolt/bracket/wiring R&R to do the clutch and it all appears as from the factory.

Your input helps. I wonder if possibly the pressure plate is getting slow to retract and push the bearing/arm back - as you and Panda wrote - relating to the "Self Adjusting Clutch". I'll read into that in the service manual and Acurazine. I doubt it is losing some fluid through the seal, as normally on a clutch hydraulic system they just blow out and you have nothing - tow it or drive home w/o hydraulics...

I'll keep milking this until the spring or another vehicle is done. Planning on:
Flywheel, Clutch, Pressure Plate
Timing Belt/Water Pump
A few gasket replacements
Front Axles

Had a friend guess how many miles on this one and he thought 80K, it is that clean

racerock

Just did more reading about the pressure plate self adjusting system - It must be that...
- I'll be taking it very easy on this ride for a while until I get my winter vehicle back on the road
- pulling Navigator body off its frame to do the brake lines. Doing tranny, power steering, head gasket and exhaust while it is easy to access... Big job. Including Core Support and rocker panel replacement due to classic rust...

Mcgo101

exact same issue im having with my 07, was the clutch kit and flywheel the repair that corrected this?

racerock

Good question and a follow up for mine:
- Ended up never changing it
- Drove it without quick shifting was my solution as it only kicked in when shifting really fast
- Drive it hard, spirited with more normal shifting, fine no slippage
- Drive it a number of thousand miles more without issue
- Sold it to the first person that saw/drove it and it shifted fine then...
Not sure if that helps, but wanted to give status and outcome: never changed the clutch/flywheel

truonghthe

Its your clutch that came to the end of it useful life. I used to have an 05 that only does it during high RPM shifting but I had to pump the clutch several times to get the engagement point back to normal. I can definitely confirm my 07 with brand new clutch and flywheel does not do this.

Mcgo101

Awesome man thank you. And thanks to everyone who helped diagnose this issue. Preciate the advice for sure. I have always liked my toys to work as they should! After having 5 preludes the TL 6 spd v6 4 door was everything I wanted the ludes to be

starter and driverside axle on order as well as ac Delco syncromesh friction modified fluid pn 10 4014. After this stuff is done I'll start looking at the clutch as long as my rust issue isn't too bad.

cheers!

BROlando

Since this thread is back from the dead...

From what I understand, the pedal gets stuck halfway when trying to disengage the clutch.

Does the clutch slip when the pedal gets stuck? As in....does it act like the pedal is still being pressed?

If so, the most likely thing is that the grease has dried up on the release bearing sleeve...OR someone used anti-seize on that surface instead of grease when they did the clutch. I've seen it get bad enough that the sleeve becomes deformed. The issue is that the release bearing is sticking and holding the clutch from engaging (issue with engagement).

If not, then is the result that the car gets locked out of gear on the next shift, or until the pedal goes back to normal? That is a hydraulic issue (issue with DISengagement).

BROlando

Oh hey. I suggested the bearing/grease thing already. Assuming the clutch was having trouble engaging

Mcgo101

Hard to explain but the higher I Rev it to shift the less clutch pedal is there on the next shift leading to not being able to even get it into gear on the next shift, until I pump it up. If I wind it out to 6k and not 7k the clutch pedal is still only half there but I am able to get it into gear without pumping it up. 5k rpm seems to work ok it's just the higher rpm it gets weak for me.

truonghthe

for me the clutch wasn't slipping in 3rd or 4th gear, just the pedal travel went from top to bottom of the floor. I have to put the car in neutral and pump pedal couple times before the engagement point goes back top.

racerock

Have you gone back to basics and made sure master cyl and slave cylinder are not leaking as well as bled the slave. One reason I mention it is that on one well maintained TL 6 speed I bought (and went through all systems as I normally do), it must have been a long time since anyone bled. I opened the bleeder and nothing came out... it was totally clogged up with old dark solids. a bit of cleanout with a small drill bit by hand and made sure seal/cylinder was free (it seemed hung up a little) and it was good to go. Maybe, just maybe your slave cyl is hanging up. cheap investigation and you get to put new fluid in the system.

Mcgo101

Had a transmission shop check for leaks and nothing was found and hydraulics seemed to be functioning as they should. Paperwork that came with the car said they bled it late in 2018 for same issue, fluid was reported very dirty and was flushed until clean but issue still persisted. Stupid cuz it drives fine just putting around lol

BROlando

Problems with the pedal that prevent disengagement (clutch release) are usually due to hydraulics.

The clutch delay valve does not delay disengagement. It delays engagement. So...its not a likely culprit.

Clutch and brake fluids should be flushed every 2 years at the very least. They absorb water and lose their viscosity and freezing/boiling points. It also ends up destroying the seals inside the master/slave cyls and will rust the lines and (iron/steel) cylinders from the inside, which will break down seals faster.

There's likely some sort of internal bypass or leak happening in the hydraulics. The clutch engages (no slip, you say)...so the fluid is being pushed out of the slave cyl. But the pedal stays low because the fluid isn't being used to push the pedal up. So your master cylinder's internal seals are probably not working well. Or the slave cyl seals are bad and its bypassing fluid pressure there.

Alternatively, I suppose it could be a self adjusting pressure plate issue too. But its unlikely, since you all are saying the clutch isn't slipping. So the pressure plate fingers are theoretically returning back out.

WDPanda

It definitely isn't the slave cylinder, I changed that for a new OEM one with the delay valve removed - same problem.
When my clutch bracket broke, I changed the master and clutch at the same time (when it didn't need either, just welded the clutch bracket due to no bracket available at any dealer). The pedal problem was solved but I couldn't tell which was the culprit due to time constraints and being middle of January and the way the problem revealed itself for my situation. I would normally change one part at a time and not a bunch.
The clutch had PLENTY of life left at 400,000KM. If it was the master, I would think the clutch would slip or engage improperly and cause at least some kind of clutch smell, which I never got.