Mcgo101

Hey guys, just got a new to me 07 TL type s 6mt and I've been having issues with the clutch. Not sure where to start but this is what it's doing. High engagement point, grinds going into gears randomly thankfully not often, clutch fully depressed too. And after high rpm at wot shifts I usually get a half dead pedal and have to pump it up. Kinda seems to slip into gear at wot shifts too. Car has 245 km with original clutch. Car came with Takeda intake hondata and ape throttle spacer so it was quite likely street raced. Just want to get it working smoothly again and use her as my daily.

Before I drop a bunch of money on parts does this sound more like clutch failing or slave cylinder failing? Not sure if it's directly related but when doing brakes I found opposite brake pads wearing out way faster than the other opposite side making me wonder if their is an issue with the master cylinder as well, braking feels fine and strong tho.

any advice is greatly appreciated!

mc

Alvin

It is likely the master cylinder and or the slave cylinder. I have a Takeda intake and recently had to swap both out. In all seriousness it is probably one of both of the mentioned items.

Start by checking your clutch fluid, both the level as well as the condition of it. Do you see any plausible leaks by the slave or master cylinder on either side of the firewall?

There are some good threads on here with what to look for as well as how to guides, just an advance warning that it's one of the more frustrating repairs to do at home due to space to work with and difficulty in bleeding. Your messages are blocked, if you need help or have any questions just message me.

Mcgo101

Checked fluid level in both slave and master and they were both full. Fluid is dark looking though. No obvious signs of leakage but also hard to tell firewall side because of the undercoating. Would be alot cheaper if it was just a slave.

twokexlv6coupe

Most of your symptoms are pointing to something in the hydraulic system; slave or master. If you're doing one, you might as well do both. Neither are terribly expensive, nor hard to install.
But at that mileage, if it's the original clutch, it's on borrowed time.

I would start with the slave and master, then go from there.

619rcr

before you go swapping parts, try properly adjusting the pedal and bleeding the system. likely you have a pressure plate issue as well with the wot sticking

DMZ

Really? Have you ever tried to change a clutch master cylinder in these cars? It takes Paul, our start master mechanic here in Nawth Jerzy, almost 4 hours because of the number of things he has to take out just to get to it. If you are going for a master cylinder, go with the OEM brand, Nissin. You can usually find them on ebaY.
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twokexlv6coupe

Yup I have, only need to remove the strut tower, push the fuse-box and EVAP purge valve out of the way to get access to the CMC, not all that hard. Some of us prefer do do the wrench-time. Hardest part is not dropping the nuts with all the swivels and extensions that are needed for the socket to reach the firewall.
I was able to do it on the street (also North Jerz) in about 2 hours, so if Paul is only one star, I guess I'm three stars

Mcgo101

thanks for the advice so far guys. guna have the slave and clutch master inspected on monday. priced out a slave at the honda dealer and they said it was 335 cad and the master clutch cylinder was 230 cad. Looking at rock auto they list a Luk slave cyinder LSC391 for 95 cad and it is labelled Nissin right on the Luk slave, is this the honda oem equivilent? id like to save some cash if possible but if the same part is manufactured to worse standards by Luk then i would rather just get the oem. but if the oem is the same as Luk i would order the one from rock auto.

any more advice is always appreciated!

Thanks folks!

Ltfa182

Hey man just FYI. I ordered the LUK clutch kit (used a different throwout bearing) and flywheel along with their master and slave cylinders all from Rockauto. The master cylinder was leaking right away through the gasket and the slave cylinder was also defective. Unfortunately, both were installed on the car already and the system was unable to be bled. I had to go to Napa (they sold the Nissin brand) for the master and O'Reilys (their brand) for the slave. Needed it the same day and they were the only ones that had it in stock. Just fair warning. I don't necessarily think that the brand was the problem, but it made me wonder how long some parts sit in the rockauto warehouses before they get sold. Seals get old. Check out Heeltoeauto as well. He's got some great master/slave cylinder options on his site. I have had clutch problems since I got the car so I've already been through it.

Mcgo101

hey thanks man! i was cross referencing parts on amazon and the Luk clutch master and slave did have some bad reviews ie failing in months ect. might just get the honda ones to save a headache

Mcgo101

no problems with the luk clutch kit and flywheel tho?

Ltfa182

If I could do it again, I would go with OEM Slave cylinder. Cheaper then some of the aftermarket out there. I got quoted $90ish for the OEM but it was 2 days out. I would have no problem going with Nissin or other OE type brands for the Master, but going OEM will give you that peace of mind. As people have said, its not THAT hard to do the master cylinder replacement, but it doesn't take away how annoying it is to do a job twice or to have to pay to get it done twice. Heeltoeauto carries Nissin, Exedy, Centric, K-Tuned, and the OEM. Worth a look if you want to save a little money or get an upgraded one. For reference, I paid about $60-70 for Nissin one from Napa.

No the actual clutch is great. Shifts like butter and engagement is great. If you get this kit, go with a different throwout bearing, either OEM or something else. I went with SKF. It looks almost identical in design to the OEM part and someone else I saw online had also went with that one and had no issues.

I went through this same process you're going through. I tried to bleed it first and adjust the pedal, then did the master and slave cylinder, then realized it needed a clutch. During the bleeding process after the master and slave install, the throwout bearing started squealing. This made me decide to just get the clutch done. So it's the right process. Fix the cheapest things first.

Mcgo101

took it to mr transmission on monday, told tech about grinding when fully depressed sometimes, and wot shift random dead clutch pedal till its pumped up. he took her for a drive brought it back inspected slave and master, put it on hoist and also had a look. shop manager said they can't find anything wrong with the system. he said no visable leaks, slave is functioning and that it is likely the clutch starting to wear down. last owner did say they thought it was original now at 245kms.

clutch delay valve is interesting. im not sure if ive ever drove a car with one. had 93, 99 vtec lude 5 speeds, 06 and 10 g35/37 6mts and only noticed a dead pedal once on the 06 g35 sdn 6mt, 7500rpm speed shift and pedal dropped to the floor for 2 pumps and never had the issue again.

so i guess i will just drive her until it fails haha

thanks for the advice folks. greatly appreciated!

Ltfa182

You'd be surprised how these clutches will last. Sold my accord v6 with the original clutch on it at 205k.

Mcgo101

awesome i believe it. 99 lude had about 210k on original and it was fine although i never really dumped or rode it. the g35 had a really high engagement point when i got it at 150k but was the same at 200k when i parted ways with it. with the 2010 g37 the previous owner had a lightweight flywheel installed at 105km and it sounded like a cement mixer at idle lol couldnt take it and didnt think repairing was worth it so i sold it too haha

Ltfa182

Oh yeah that makes sense! My accord was always fine with normal driving. If I redlined it, the clutch would engage really low but would always return back to normal after one pump. It did that for 6 years and probably still is. If I remember correctly, theres a guy on driveaccord, who is taking his Accord 1 million miles. I think he replaced his clutch for the first time at 400k.

Mcgo101

Ok so back to the drawing board, car works fine driving normal minus the clutch not disengaging sometimes and gear won't go all the way into gear, I catch it and pull out pump clutch and it goes in. Not often but a few times during a trip to town. Between this and the high rpm shifts giving me a half dead pedal I'm leaning towards a hydraulic issue? Would it be worth having Mr transmission bleed the clutch completely?

Ltfa182

I was reading through this thread again trying to figure what you had done so far. Have you replaced anything in the hydraulic system yet? Did they bleed it last time you went?

WDPanda

A hydraulic issue is usually a leak or a half functioning clutch and likely progresses worse. A hydraulic issue is also easy to identify by looking at the slave cylinder movement. If the clutch operates and you get periodic issues, it's most likely a combination of the clutch (pressure plate is a common issue on these), the delay valve, and the transmission fluid.

Mcgo101

Nah the didn't bleed it last time just said they can't find a leak or anything wrong with the system. I told them I had a luk clutch kit ready to go in (I didn't really) and he said it's likely a worn clutch. Thinking about it more it made me suspicious that they jump to the most expensive repair first. I called the shop manager again last week and asked if bleeding it would help and he said it might a bit. Wondering if I should just take it to the Honda dealer and get a second opinion before I throw unnecessary cash at it

Ltfa182

To be honest, the shop might be right. A new clutch may be the solution. If I were you, I’d definitely just have them bleed it to try it but if that doesn’t fix it and it’s not the MC or Slave Cylinder then there isn’t much else it can be.

csmeance

Easy fix, make sure your clutch pedal bracket isn't broken. Happens with time. If that checks out, keep going a bit deeper.

Check/change the fluid and bled the system, sometimes you have to bench bleed the master.

After that you can try the parts cannon with slave/master to see if it helps or you can look/check the the clutch release fork by hand. If it's very firm with hand movement, then clutch pressure plate should be OK.

If it rattles and can be moved by hand, then something in clutch assy; pressure plate or release fork is damaged.

DMZ

Nope! The clutch kit and flywheel from LUK are the OEM parts (except for the included release bearing) without the Honda name on the package. My slave (no pun intended), is an LUK replacement, and my master is a Nissin (the OEM part without the honda name on the package). My entire manual transmission system minus the transmission itself including the pedal assembly has been replaced. After 366K miles, I've experienced most if not all the trials and tribulations of having this car with a manual tranny.
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Mcgo101

Dug through old service records on the TL and found that it was brought in to a shop for the same issue in 2018. Paperwork said they bled all the dirt and air out of system but issue persists. They recommended slave and master back then. Had another transmission shop test it with me today and after a 7k 2nd to 3rd shift the next shift still had a weak clutch pedal enough that it wouldn't go into gear. Shop manager thinks the syncro's are bad? Tried to say the syncros are not slowing down enough to engage? Didn't make sense to me as it's not the power shift that's the issue it's the next shift that it feels like it loses pressure til pumped up.

just making sure I get all the advice I can get before I open it up. Engine seems healthy so a new clutch kit might be in her future.

Ltfa182

I won't say its not the synchros, but everything so far has seemed like it needs a new CMC, SC, and clutch. If you're going to do it, go all in! All my clutch issues went away once I changed those items. I even changed the clutch pedal because the bracket broke. I think this was mentioned a couple posts before this by another member.