Andyw2100

This post will be long, as I plan on including as much detail as possible, in the hope that someone (or several people) here might shed some light on this.

I have a 2004 5AT TL, which was ordered in fall 2003, so it is one of the early production cars. I took delivery of it in November, 2003. I currently have just over 20,000 miles on it.

Last Thursday, 3/13 I took it to my local Honda dealer for an oil change. I live over an hour's drive from an Acura dealership, so I thought the Honda dealer would be a fine place for an oil change. I have taken the TL there for oil changes before. The TL's service indicator was indicating "Service Due Now", not "Service Passed Due."

I purchased my own synthetic Mobil One oil, and brought it to the dealership. I purchased 5W-20, which is what is recommended in the TL manual. I believe that is also the oil it was replacing, although it might have been replacing something slightly different. But whatever had been in it before (possibly 10w-30) was also Mobile One, and was recommended here as a perfectly acceptable alternative. The car had no issues when I brought it in.

After the oil change I drove less than half a mile before a number of things happened:

1) The "check engine" light came on.
2) The "exclamation point" light came on
3) The "AVS" light came on

At around the same time the car also felt as if someone had just attached a trailer to it or something. It felt similar to what might happen in a standard transmission car if you shifted from third gear to first gear.

I immediately turned around and went back to the Honda dealership. They said they would check the "codes" with their computer. They came back and said that maybe the codes were triggered by the low oil pressure or something, that they had cleared them, and that I should be fine. They sent me off.

At almost the exact same location all three indicators came on again, and the car again exhibited the same odd behavior that felt like it was dragging something. Note that in both cases I was travelling at perhaps 30-35 MPH, give or take.

I went back to the dealership, where they claimed the code was transmission related, and had nothing to do with anything they had done. They actually tried to convince me that "it was just time" for that to happen--that it was a coincidence. Needless to say I did not buy that. They checked the code again, and claimed that it was a code indicating that the speed sensors were not getting data. They again swore that this was a transmission issue, that it had nothing to do with them, and that I would have to take the car to the Acura dealership, over an hour's drive away. (They also checked to make sure the speed sensors were still attached.) I was absolutely livid, because I thought there was damn close to zero chance that these codes were a coincidence. But there was nothing I could do, so I left.

On the way home the same behavior was exhibited.

Having some time, I tested some things, and also noticed more things.

I found that once in this "problem" mode, I could not use the Sport Shift. Switching into Sport Shift did nothing. I also noticed that while in this "problem" mode, braking seemed to be overly sensitive.

I pulled over, turned the car off and back on, and while that cleared the exclamation point and the AVS codes, the check engine light remained on. However braking seemed normal, and Sport Shift mode worked. Of course within a mile or so, the other two lights came back on, and I was back in "problem" mode.

Later that evening I needed to make four short trips of about two miles each. On the first two the check engine light remained on, but everything else seemed OK. On the third trip I again wound up in "problem" mode. On the fourth trip the car did not kick into "problem mode."

I did not drive the car Friday, Saturday, or Sunday.

Today, Monday, 3/17, I drove it on a trip of about 4 or 5 miles. The check engine light remained on, but "problem" mode was avoided. On the return trip of the same 4-5 miles, somewhere between mile 1 and 2 (give or take) the check engine light went off. So I completed my trip with no dashboard indicators on at all, and everything seemed normal. I am now hoping that this problem is resolved, and will update here if it turns out that it is not.

But have any of you experienced anything at all like this? Do any of you have any idea what could have caused this behavior?

I thought I would ask here first, before calling Acura or an Acura dealership, as I fear both would simply say, "Bring it in." I know the wealth of knowledge here is expansive, so I am hoping for some insight from some of you.

Thanks in advance.

csmeance

I would call the honda dealership and ask for the exact codes that they pulled. It sounds like the car went into LIMP mode, and it should have not shifted past 3K RPM or something like that. Turn on your car, put it in drive and drive it a little, make sure that the D light in the RPM guage is not blinking, if it is, you have a transmission issue.

DID YOU EVER, I MEAN EVER TAKE IT TO THE ACURA DEALER? There is a RECALL on these cars from early 2004 TL's for an oil-jet kit for the transmission, as it was starved of transmission fluid in the 2nd and 3rd gear. If not, call acura up and schedule an appt. ASAP.

I'd bet that one of the people in the service section of honda stomped on the pedal and caused a lot of strain on the transmission, and this coupled with oil starvation caused the 3rd gear to go out.

csmeance

here is a link to the recall page
link to recall

the affected VIN's are 19UUA66..4A000001 THROUGH 19UUA66..4A014224

wasupdog

iTrader: (2)

even if the cel goes away the problem codes are still stored in there until they are erased by a code reader.

if u wanna get an idea of what the problem is before u go into the acura stealer, if u have an advance auto or autozone near u go use a code reader for free. u hook it up to a plug-in module located to the left of your left knee right under the dash. look under the dash and u'll see it. write the codes down and then search them in google to see what they are.

check the oil dipstick and see if they actually put new oil in. the oil should be fairly clean, although the color of fluids is not an indicator of whether the fluids are bad yet.

Andyw2100

Thanks for the help, csmeance.

I will call the Honda dealership tomorrow to ask for the exact code or codes. I expect they will tell me that they did not record them, and do not remember them.

My car has been back to the Acura dealership several times. I just checked, and my VIN is about 100 higher than the top of the recall range.

I also just went out for a little spin, and the D light in the RPM gauge was not blinking. I also got it up to about 5500 RPM once, and over 4000 a couple of times, to see if that created any issues, and it did not.

But now that you mention the blinking D, I did see that at some point during all this. I don't recall if it was when I tried to put it in Sport shift mode, and it would not allow me to, or if the D was actually blinking at all times that the exclamation point light and the AVS light were on. In any case, it is not blinking now.

So, assuming that your theory above is correct, how did the car essentially "fix" itself? Also, why would the codes go away when I turned the car off, and come back on after driving a short distance? Is that what is supposed to happen in LIMP mode?

Again, thanks in advance for any further assistance.

Andyw2100

Thanks to you too, wasupdog. I was writing my post above as you were posting. If the Honda dealership can't or won't tell me the codes (and maybe even if they can) I will get them myself at Autozone.

zeezz

is the oil cap on?

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

sounds like the "safe" mode or "limp" mode that others have experienced.... could be numerous things.. i agree with others, go buy a code reader, or bring it to autozone... and get the exact code information. then goto www.ODBII.com and check the codes, that will give more insight to your problem

and yea, the early production year (2004) had a few recalls, transmission jets being one of them

csmeance

I would take the car in anyway, its still should be under warranty. On second thought, it could be a bad wheel sensor, that would cause all the VSA and ABS light to come on, but not the Limp mode.

Also limp mode:
A mode in which the car goes into to protect itself from further damage. It will not shift past 3.5K RPMS, it will not go past 3rd gear, it will not allow you to use sport-shift and a few other things.

You are right, if it was the transmission issue, it could have not fixed itself. But I'd bet also that it was a software glitch or something with the computers and drive by wire module not getting a signal from somewhere. I would go to autozone and have the codes pulled for free. See what they are and report back, further diagnoisis then can be issued.


PS. Although unlikely, it could be a bad EGR valve. This was a common problem on the MDX from 2001-2006, and it would set off the same symptoms.

Andyw2100

The Honda dealership did not remember the exact codes, but said it was the "Main Shaft Speed Sensor", and a transmission code. I will try to get to Autozone tomorrow or the next day to see if I can get the exact codes and then look them up myself. Thanks again for the help.

Andyw2100

I went to Autozone today, and the code was 717. According to the print out the person at Autozone gave me, the definition of this code is: No signal input from the mainshaft speed sensor. Probable causes are: 1) Open or short circuit condition, 2) Poor electrical connection, 3) Failed mainshaft speed sensor

And just to add some more information to all this...

I made a couple of short trips running errands after going to Autozone. I had no issues. But then on the longer trip of perhaps 5-7 miles, the exact same indicators came on as before, after about 1/2 mile. I checked, and in addition to everything I had written up earlier, there was a green light blinking next to the D for drive. I also checked my ability to rev the engine above 3500 RPM, and it went higher. I stopped at about 4500 RPM.

I got where I was going, dropped off my passengers, turned the car off and back on, and headed home on the same two mile trip I referenced in my initial post. This time while the check engine indicator stayed on, the others all remained off.

I would love to know just what the heck is going on. Does any of the above information help diagnose this?

Thanks.

01tl4tl

was the blinking light saying D5
thats trans symptom, to the ACURA dealer you go
Have you verified coverage under the extended trans warranty?
Even if not- they will cover you- sometimes right away- sometimes with a prod or 2

Believe it or not- honda dealer was right- its right on time for a failure
The gen2 cars got 30-80k from the trans, and gen3, with more power- seem to be going at 20-30 k miles...its just its time, right on time.

Andyw2100

The blinking light was just a green light blinking next to the "D" for drive.

I find it incredibly hard to believe that this is coincidental, and not related in some way to the oil change, since the symptoms started literally within the first half mile I drove after the oil change.